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Kavanaugh and Ford to Testify; Senator Hirono on Hearing Today; Stakes for the Kavanaugh Hearing. Aired 8:30-9:00a ET

Aired September 27, 2018 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00] JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Unprecedented, historic moment in time. Professor Christine Blasey Ford will testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee and accuse Brett Kavanaugh, under oath, of sexually assaulting her decades ago when they both were in high school. In prepared remarks, Blasey Ford will tell lawmakers, quote, Brett's assault on me drastically altered my life.

Kavanaugh will also testify under oath and he will repeat his admit denials of Ford's claims that he pinner her to a bed, groped her and held his hand over her mouth to silence her screams. Kavanaugh calls her claims last-minute smears.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Kavanaugh is also facing additional accusations. The third accuser, Julie Swetnick, says Kavanaugh was present when she was drugged and gang raped. This morning, we're hearing from her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is it that caused you to decide to come forward at this very moment one day before the hearings and make yourself public?

JULIE SWETNICK, KAVANAUGH ACCUSER: Well, it wasn't that I wanted to come out one day before the hearing. That just -- circumstances brought it out that way. This is something that occurred a long time ago, and it's not that I just thought about it. It's been on my mind ever since the occurrence.

As far as it goes, Brett Kavanaugh is going for a seat where he's going to have that seat on the Supreme Court for the rest of his life. And if he's going to have that seat legitimately, all of these things should be investigated because, from what I experienced first-hand, I don't think he belongs on the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: President Trump is defending his nominee, but conceding that this historic hearing this morning will decide how committee members will vote as early as tomorrow.

CNN's Manu Raju is up on Capitol Hill.

Manu, give us an update on the very latest.

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, each side has spent hours, Wolf, preparing for this dramatic day of testimony that will undoubtedly determine whether or not Brett Kavanaugh gets that lifetime seat on the Supreme Court. Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee met last night with the Arizona prosecutor, Rachel Mitchell, who will be doing the questioning for their side, discussing exactly how they plan to question both Christine Blasey Ford and Brett Kavanaugh. And Democrats are planning to do their own questioning, but behind the scenes they too have been meeting on the Senate Judiciary Committee with their Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer to determine how best to move forward on this hearing and expose what they believe are credibility issues with Brett Kavanaugh.

Now, at the same time, all eyes are going to be on three key Republican senators in the aftermath of this hearing. One, Susan Collins of Maine, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Jeff Flake of Arizona, those three senators in particular have been wavering about Kavanaugh in the aftermath of the Ford allegations. And they are going to weigh today's testimony to determine whether or not they will ultimately vote. And as we know, two Republican senators can defect and derail this domination if all Democrats vote no.

And we are hearing behind the scenes Susan Collins of Maine expressed some concern about the latest allegation that came on the record yesterday, and she weighed those concerns very clear to her own Republican Party, also questioning why the Judiciary Committee has not subpoenaed Kavanaugh's friend, Mark Judge, to come forward. Republican leaders have tried to reassure her. But, nevertheless, today a huge moment for the future of the Supreme Court and it will determine whether or not Brett Kavanaugh gets that seat as all eyes will be on that hearing room in just a matter of minutes here, Jake.

TAPPER: Manu Raju, thanks so much.

You have to wonder what is going through Brett Kavanaugh's mind right now. In just the last 24 hours, we learned of new accusations. Julie Swetnick. And President Trump publically said that he was with Kavanaugh but he suggested he might change his mind about the nominee depending on what happens today.

The stakes really could not be higher. The margin of error couldn't be thinner.

CNN's Supreme Court reporter Ariane de Vogue joins us.

Ariane, any insight into what Kavanaugh is thinking right now, what he has planned for his presentation, his testimony today?

ARIANE DE VOGUE, CNN SUPREME COURT REPORTER: Well, Jake, you know earlier in the week we heard from Kavanaugh in that Fox News interview, and he seemed almost robotic at times. Expects to see a different Brett Kavanaugh today.

I talked to a source who said he's incandescent. He's extremely angry. And he's going to tell his story today. We don't yet have that opening statement, and it could change.

But, keep in mind, he has always said about Christine Blasey Ford that he denies it. And he's also said, look, she may have been assaulted some time by someone, but it wasn't me.

But since -- now we have a lot more allegations, and a lot of them are anonymous. For instance, one went to one senator from a mother who said her daughter was out with her friends and they were assaulted by Brett Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh was asked about that behind closed doors at the committee earlier in the week, and he said, we're dealing with an anonymous letter about an anonymous person and an anonymous friend. It's ridiculous. Total twilight zone.

And on their parts, the Democrats are also frustrated because they fear that the Republicans on the committee are filling the record with a lot of anonymous allegations in order to somehow diminish Ford. They want the focus today to be on Ford and that's where they think it should be. Ford's lawyers actually released a statement and said, last minute attempts that seek to undermine Dr. Ford won't work. That's where we are now, Wolf.

[08:35:28] BLITZER: You know, it is interesting, Ariane, we're going to be watching this. And, Jake, this is a historic moment for the country right now. A United States Supreme Court nominee potentially -- he's 53 years old -- he could be on the Supreme Court making critically important decisions for 30, maybe 40 years. And the whole country is going to be watching this hearing this morning.

TAPPER: Yes, two points on that, Wolf.

First of all, I think it's not -- we can't overstate -- it's impossible to overstate how important her testimony is going to be today. There are literally nobody on Capitol Hill knows what's going to happen. Nobody on Capitol Hill knows how credible she is going to seem. Nobody on Capitol Hill knows how credible Kavanaugh is going to seem.

And a lot is riding on their testimony today and their presentation. And I don't want to pressure either one of them if they're watching, but the truth of the matter is that there's a lot in Washington that happens where the cake is already baked and it's just Kabuki Theater. We're all just pretending that we don't know the outcome. We really don't know the outcome here. And it really does rests on how the presentation and how credible Christine Blasey Ford and Brett Kavanaugh seem today. That's one.

Two, we all remember where we were during Clarence Thomas. I mean I had vivid memories, I think I was 22 years old, of high-tech lynching of an uppity black man, Professor Hill's charges, of Arlen Specter, the late senator from Pennsylvania, attacking Ted Kennedy, the late senator from Massachusetts, saying, the women from America don't need to hear from our -- Ted Kennedy when it comes to women. This really is a historic moment. This is going to be something that we all remember years, if not decades from now, where we were and the coverage of it.

BLITZER: And these accusations by these women against Judge Kavanaugh are so brutal.

TAPPER: They're brutal accusations and his denial is so unequivocal that there's nothing that happened that he can even understand why these charges would be brought forward. The charges are upsetting and they're obviously -- they triggered an entire national conversation about sexual assault and sexual harassment about the unequal way that women and girls are treated in this country.

At the same time, there is, as of now, no contemporaneous, corroborating evidence for any of the charges as far as we know. We haven't seen anybody emerge and say, yes, I remember that. And that is an important part of this story as well.

BLITZER: Certainly is.

We're going to watch this so carefully.

Their opening statements, which they've already released, both of them, extremely powerful.

Let's bring in a key member of the Senate Judiciary Committee right now who will be asking questions of Kavanaugh and Professor Ford, Democratic Senator Mazie Hirono of Hawaii.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

SEN. MAZIE HIRONO (D), HAWAII: Thank you. Good morning.

BLITZER: You tweeted yesterday that the president should withdraw Kavanaugh's nomination in light of this third accuser who has come forward. Tell us -- tell us -- give us a preview of what you're going to ask both of these witnesses today.

HIRONO: Well, first of all, it's very unusual that we only have two witnesses. So these are not normal times. Under normal times there would be an FBI investigation, which the Democrats and I have been calling for, for days and days. In normal times, there will be other witnesses, like Mark Judge. Normal times, the senators would ask the questions rather than hiding behind a person they hire for one day to ask the questions. And in normal times we would certainly have access to a lot more of the documents that we should be reviewing.

These are obviously not normal times. So we have the two witnesses and, frankly, when I hear Judge Kavanaugh continue to talk about he wants a fair process, one thing he's not asking for is an FBI investigation that would at least give us an opportunity for corroboration of these allegations and these accounts.

TAPPER: Senator, let me ask you. Last night the Senate Judiciary Committee, of which you're a member, put out information in terms of everything that they have done and the staff members have done relating to these allegations against Judge Kavanaugh. We learned that the chat, in that timeline, that the committee staff have interviewed two men who claimed that it was they, and not Judge Kavanaugh, who may have assaulted Professor Blasey Ford back in 1982. Is there any credibility to these claims? What can you tell us about those two men? HIRONO: If these two people want to come forward and put names to

their admissions, that's what we need. But again, this is yet another turn of events that only continues to point out why the FBI investigation needs to occur, so that there's some sensible way for us to sort through all of this.

I think it's bizarre that at this point two people come forward and say, yes, we committed a crime. Really? Why don't you put your names to it?

[08:40:15] BLITZER: The White House has been out this morning talking about the hearing, senator. I want you to listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH SANDERS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I find it interesting. I don't question the stories. But I certainly question the tactics that these individuals were more than willing to give interviews to "The Washington Post," to "The New Yorker," but refuse to sit down with the Senate Judiciary Committee.

KELLYANNE CONWAY, COUNSELOR TO THE PRESIDENT: They've ruined a couple of lives here by sitting on this information. This woman didn't want to come forward. They smoked her out. They leaked her identity. But for the Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee in the majority, Dr. Ford may never have even had today to testify.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: Yes, I'd like -- love you to respond to those White House officials.

HIRONO: The White House continues to participate in the stone walling. I don't see why it is so hard for everybody to get their arms around the fact that there has been no independent investigation of these reports. I think it's just totally inconsistent with people who run around saying that they want to have a fair process where they will not ask for an FBI investigation as they treat women who have courageously come forward -- they have nothing to gain from doing this -- that there is no independent investigation.

And notice that it's Judge Kavanaugh, it's the president, it's the Republicans who are totally stonewalling any effort, any attempt at an FBI investigation. That is so telling to me.

And, meanwhile, you know, you have the entire array of the power of the presidency, all of his supporters in the Senate, and you have Dr. Ford here doing her very best to tell us a story because she thinks it is so important that the character credibility and the candor of somebody we're about to put on the Supreme Court for a lifetime appointment who will be making decisions that impact our lives for decades, that she comes forward. And her life has been totally up ended by this.

So all the attacks on her, this is so typical. You know, those of us who have been dealing with these kinds of issues for a long time, we know that it is really difficult for women to come forward. Why? Look at what's happening. They get attacked. Oh, in fact, you even have shadow people coming forward to say, we did it. We committed a crime. It's -- this is the kind of thing that happens. It's why we need an FBI investigation. I keep coming back to that.

And for those Republicans, and I hear them talking about how they want fairness, this is the epitome of unfairness.

TAPPER: Senator, I know you're calling for an FBI investigation and I'm sure when I ask you about this latest accuser, Julie Swetnick, that you'll say that her charges need to be investigated. But beyond that, based on her sworn statement, based on the presentation you've seen from her attorney, Michael Avenatti, do you believe her allegations?

HIRONO: Do I believe her allegations? You know, what we need is -- I keep coming back to it because we need an FBI investigation because, you know why, I look at Dr. Ford's account, and I see the indicators of credibility. Meanwhile, all I get from Judge Kavanaugh is, I didn't do it. He denies everything or he doesn't remember. What is that? You know, we're faced with them coming forward. And this is a job interview for Judge Kavanaugh. There is no right to a Supreme Court seat. And so what we're left with is, we need to really look at his credibility, his candor, his character. Those are all at issue. And the American people are watching.

TAPPER: I get that, senator, but I guess what I'm saying is that the allegations made in Julie Swetnick's sworn statement to your committee, the Senate Judiciary Committee, are so appalling and so shocking --

HIRONO: Yes.

TAPPER: The idea of gang rapes going on among the students of this school, Georgetown Prep, the idea that this was a common happenstance, a common occurrence, rather, and we are now just learning about it. And I'm wondering, do you find the allegations -- I know you want an FBI investigation and I'm not taking issue with that, but do you find Julie Swetnick's charges, which are now before you as a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, do you find them credible?

HIRONO: Well, the fact that she -- it's under -- an affidavit. She's come forward to say that she is perfectly willing to talk with the FBI. She knows very well with all the clearances that she has that lying to the FBI is a crime. So if all of this was going on, should we not be talking to other witnesses, especially Mark Judge, who is clearly a major witness in this instance and there is absolutely no intention of calling him or having the FBI talk to him. I find that really troubling and appalling.

[08:45:06] But, obviously, if this kind of activity was going on, that the FBI should go and find out. There are people who would remember such occurrences happening, gang rape going on. They need to go in and check it out. But nobody's doing it in any kind of a mutual way. It's very disturbing.

BLITZER: Today is certainly -- it's certainly going to be, Senator Hirono, a very, very historic and critically important day.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us.

HIRONO: Thank you.

BLITZER: Christine Blasey Ford and Judge Brett Kavanaugh, they are now set to testify. We're learning new details about Ford's husband, as his wife gets ready to tell her story. We have details on that coming up next. Stay with CNN for our special live coverage.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome back to our special coverage of Supreme Court Nominee Brett Kavanaugh's historic hearing. All eyes and ears will be on Kavanaugh and Professor Christine Blasey Ford. But there are other key players to watch today, namely Republican swing votes. The senators who could make or break Kavanaugh's nomination.

[08:50:14] CNN has learned that Senator Susan Collins of Maine has raised serious concerns about the allegations against Kavanaugh and question why the committee has not subpoenaed Mark Judge, who Ford says was in the room when the alleged assault happened.

BLITZER: We're also, Jake, going to be watching very closely Republican Senators Jeff Flake of Arizona and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska. Both have expressed their concerns about Kavanaugh's nomination. And, of course, we'll also be watching for President Trump's reaction.

He said yesterday he could change his mind depending on what he hears. He says he will be watching this hearing. Maybe the big question is, will he also, at the same time, be tweeting about the testimony.

Let's bring in our panel.

In our -- Gloria Borger, this -- we can't overstate the stakes, how important they are right now.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, for both parties. For Dr. Ford. And I think for the country. I mean this is a moment -- this is a cultural moment. We talked about Anita Hill 20 years ago, was it? And I think that it will be -- the country is not only going to be looking at Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh, but they're going to be looking at how the Senate comports itself. I think that's an -- I think that's an important part of this.

The Republicans, obviously, have hired someone, a woman, to come in, a practiced sex crimes prosecutor with a good reputation, to come in and ask questions on their behalf. Maybe it's because they didn't like the optics of these all male panel on the Republican side asking questions of Professor Ford.

The Democrats -- people are going to watch the Democrats to see how political their questions are of Kavanaugh in particular and how they -- and how they treat Kavanaugh, who, after all, had denied everything, is a very well respected jurist in this country, and has been nominated to the highest country in the land. And I think the country doesn't have a -- you know, the popularity ratings of Congress is, what 80 percent negative, something like that, and so I think --

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: On a good day.

BORGER: On a good day, right. So I think -- I think everyone here, everyone here is aware of their own behavior and the stakes in all of this. And in -- in Professor Ford's testimony that we've gotten, we don't know if it's going to change, she actually says she is terrified.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes.

BORGER: She uses that word, I am terrified of coming before the committee. And in Kavanaugh's written statement yesterday, and Ariane de Vogue is reporting that may change today, that he's going to be a little bit more aggressive in his testimony, he did say, I was not perfect in those days of high school. I'm not perfect today. I drank beer with my friends, usually on weekends. In retrospect, I said and did things in high school that make me cringe now. And you can expect the Democrats to kind of focus in on that. And he said, but that's not why we're here today. What I've been accused of is far more serious than juvenile misbehavior. I never did anything remotely resembling what Dr. Ford describes.

There is one witness that could potentially either back up Judge Kavanaugh or Ford, and that's Mike Judge.

TAPPER: Mark Judge.

BORGER: I mean Mark Judge, who alleged by was there, and we are not going to hear from him today.

TAPPER: And, Dana, one of the things that's interesting, of course, is Democrats will be also watched, as Gloria points out, how they treat the witnesses. All ten of the Democrats on the Judiciary Committee have called for Kavanaugh's nomination to be withdrawn. And while we're all looking at those Republicans, Flake, Murkowski, Collins, maybe even Corker, maybe even Cory Gardner of Colorado, there are three Democrats whose position on Brett Kavanaugh we still don't know. They're the three who voted for Neil Gorsuch, Manchin of West Virginal, Heitkamp of North Dakota and Donnelly of Indiana. And we have no idea how credible Blasey Ford is going to be. We have no idea how credible Kavanaugh is going to be. It's -- their votes are up for grabs as well.

BASH: You're absolutely right. And the sort of politics of the fact that we are less than six weeks away from the midterms and all of those red state Democrats who talked about are up for re-election in states where Donald Trump won by at least 20 points cannot be overlooked.

And that kind of also speaks to the fact that of course this is -- this is literally tearing the parties apart, much more if it's -- it's hard to believe, but much more than we've even seen to date. There used to be a time, not that long ago, where the parties could work things out and work together to come up with a process that actually was good for the country and good for the court and good for the system, and that's not the case now.

[08:55:06] And certainly you're seeing so much pressure from the left on people like Susan Collins of Maine, the Republican, or even those Democrats, who you talked about. But we can't understate the pressure that is coming -- or overstate the pressure that is coming from the right. Republicans who I talked to say that they are getting absolutely hammered by key constituencies, by voters who they care about because they re-elect these Republican members saying that they believe Judge Kavanaugh is being railroaded, that this is an unfair process and that is a really, really key dynamic that we should keep in mind when we watch this.

And one other thing I just -- I want to say is that, this is such an example of how much this -- everything has devolved. And it's unfortunate. And people who -- serious minded people who watch this see that it is unfortunate.

You talk about the Anita Hill hearings. I mean that was a debacle for so many reasons. But, ironically, back then, the Democrats were in charge and it was a Republican nominee, and the criticism was more gender and culturally based, not politically and partisan based. And this is so divisive. And, you know, the question is whether or not there are even -- there's an opening for people in the United States Senate to stand up and get above that. And we're going to not know the answer to that until after this hearing.

BORGER: And one more thing. I don't think we can overstates the importance of what happened with Merrick Garland. And that's kind of the context of this and the fact that he was put on hold and never even considered during Barack Obama's tenure and Mitch McConnell said, no, no, no, it's too close to the election, we can't vote on this Supreme Court justice. The Democrats feel that this was stolen -- stolen from them. And I think that's the context into which we ought to kind of look at all of it.

HENDERSON: Yes, another context, of course, is the Me Too movement, right?

BORGER: Right.

HENDERSON: That started basically about a year ago and has seen powerful men ousted from studios, a Hollywood studios, television studios as well, as some powerful men in Washington. Al Franken, for instance. John Conyers as well. People who were forced to resign because of allegations against them.

So when Christine Blasey Ford walks into this hearing room and sits down, she in some ways is carrying the weight of that movement. Everyone -- you saw on Twitter, for instance, people coming out and talking about their own experiences of sexual assault, talking about, for instance, why they waited to tell in terms of sexual assault because of the shame that they felt. So that's a dynamic that I think is going to be very much on display here today. BLITZER: Every stick around. There's a lot more. We have -- our

special coverage of this critically important hearing coming up. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)