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Interview with Florida Gubernatorial Candidate Andrew Gillum; Andrew Gillum Discusses Corruption Allegations. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 01, 2018 - 8:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00] DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And Gillum supports deadly sanctuary cities. He wants to abolish ICE.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Your response?

MAYOR ANDREW GILLUM, (D) NOMINEE FOR FLORIDA GOVERNOR: Well, I'm sorry I missed that last night. I was out with my three kids trick or treating. We prefer treats in my house. Hey had a lot of tricks going on apparently last night with the president and Mr. DeSantis. But again, Mr. DeSantis and the president have no relationship with the truth.

I believe in borders. I believe in the law. What the president has turned our immigration enforcement agency into is a family separation force, putting kids in cages and separating feeding babies from their mothers. That's not who we are. The real threat is in fentanyl being dropped into this country coming from Asia. It is rapists and sex traffickers, and quite frankly, very dangerous murders coming in because our folks are focused on ripping babies away from their parents than on actually securing our borders.

The president, again, is attempting to use scare tactics, fearmongering. Again, this is a race to the bottom, the kind of politics they're used to. I just happen to believe they are sorely underestimating the people of my state. That's not the branch of politics that we want. We want to hear our elected officials talk about what we're going to do to make our community, our state better. And that's what we have been running on, giving voters something to vote for and not just against.

BERMAN: And again, the president talked about you last night and he's been talking about you elsewhere on the stump. And among the things he's said is he has called you a thief, in contrast to that with your opponent who he says went to Harvard and Yale. There have been those who looked at that and said it is a racist, or racial message to send. Do you look at it like that?

GILLUM: Look, so first of all, I'm a proud graduate of Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University, one of the great historically black colleges and universities here in the United States. Proud of that, obviously. Listen, the president's candidate, as displayed in two debates, is not fit for the task. He has refused to talk about the fact that he has voted over a dozen times to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

BERMAN: Do you think the president's comments are racial, though? Do you think the president's comments in that case were racist?

GILLUM: I'll have to take the same tact with the president as I took with Mr. DeSantis. I have not called the president a racist, but there are racists in his sympathizers who believe that he may be, which is why they go to his aid, which is why he has provided them cover. And I believe his cover has led to much of the degradation in our political discourse. I think the same is true for Mr. DeSantis who has accepted money from folks who called the president a Muslim n- i-g-g-e-r. I mean, the kind of politics, the tone that we're seeing right now set nationally and that has seeped into the race here in Florida from day one of this general election is beneath the station of the office, and it's beneath the intelligence of the voters who we're trying to engage in this race and act on their behalf.

They want me to get into name calling. But as I will rely on some of the advice from my grandmother. She used to say never ever wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty, but the pig likes it. I can think of no one better who wants to wrestle in the mud than the president and Mr. DeSantis. I'm not interested in that. I'm interested in what we can do to improve the lives of people here in my state.

BERMAN: I have in my hand right now a discussion you had with the "Tallahassee Democrat" yesterday. And you know there is an investigation going on into corruption in Tallahassee. You say you are not a target or a subject of this investigation. But there are people connected to you who are part of that. You told "The Democrat" you won't find me making that kind of mistake again. What mistake are you talking about? What mistakes did you make there?

GILLUM: Yes. I think, as I shared with "The Democrat" last night, I have been elected since I was 23 years old. I grew up in many ways in this space, and I kind of entered politics and still feel pretty idealistic about the change making process. The mistake I was referring to is not really assigning negative motives to anybody. By and large, folks who have come around me and been in my space, I didn't assume them to be there for ill intention or ill will.

But I want to be clear about this. I have never in any way compromised my values, my morals, or the law. I have been elected as an official for 15 years and I've been elected repeatedly by doing right, not by doing wrong. The people in my community know me and they trust me. I made it through a Democratic process and the primary election and people there, voters, got to know made it through the primary election and voters got to know me and they trust me.

[08:05:00] And the same is true, which is why we're going to win this race for governor, is because I have been forthright and honest and transparent with the people of my state all along, and I believe that they will trust me to lead this state. And I believe that's why we're going to win on November 6th.

BERMAN: Morals, values, and the law are sometimes different when you are coming -- when you get to politics and governance and ethics laws and regulations. There is another report out today that you took a flight from Tallahassee to Tampa that was paid for with office funds, and that when you were in Tampa you engaged in political activity. Did you engage in political activity when you were in Tampa on that trip?

GILLUM: So let me first say, office funds are not taxpayer dollars. Office funds are when you have campaigned and you have leftover money, you put it in an office account that you can then use to aid you however you choose in the execution of your duties. I did meet with elected officials. But the suggestion is that I went down fundraising and met with a group of people to fundraise is not true. I met with a group of people who are trusted folks. They're political leaders in our state. Many of them are friends. I was in Tampa and met with them and had conversations about the future of our state and our community. I was not a declared candidate for any office --

BERMAN: You say about the future of your state, but was the conversation about getting elected, to further your political career?

GILLUM: No, they were not. Absolutely not. Not a single office. They were about what it is on a policy level that we could be doing and that I could be doing in my capacity as the mayor of Florida's capital city. Again, these are the kinds of distractions that I think my opponent has been unfortunately rather successful in getting into a mainstream conversation.

But the point is, is that I broke no rules. I followed the exact order in which these accounts are allowed to be used and are set up. There were no taxpayer dollars, nor would I have used taxpayer dollars for that purpose, to travel. We paid our own pay. No one compensated me for going. Again, I have served in elected office for 15 years by doing right, not by doing wrong.

BERMAN: Understood. I just want to ask one more question about a lot of these ethics things and then move on to policy here. Again, in this conversation that you had with "The Democrat" last night, there was something I hadn't seen before. I don't know if this has come up before. I'm not in Florida every day. But you were talking about a conversation you had with Mike Miller, who was the undercover FBI agent at the center of this in some ways. And you describe a conversation where he's talking about supporting you in your run for governor, and something was said. Miller told you, if we could count on your help here at the local level, we could be interested in helping you. How did you respond to him at that moment?

GILLUM: An immediate response to that was, Mike, you and I are friends, and I would expect anybody who supports me supported me because they believe in me. Anything different than that, I'm not real interested in. And I let myself off from that conversation. But walking out of there, I felt very much so that it felt transactional. I'm not that kind of person. I think he misjudged me. And I think given what we now know about their investigation, I think it was probably a Hail Mary to see if they convince me or see if they could get me to do something wrong.

I think the real missed part about this whole investigation is that, one, I'm not under investigation, but more importantly, in all the time that they were around our community, they could never ever find me doing anything illegal, untoward, or inappropriate. The sin that I committed was I was too open and too available to allow for friends to introduce me to someone whom I didn't know that I, frankly, thought was a friend, and I came to find that that wasn't the case.

But my interactions with them would not have been in any way different. I don't -- I don't assume that people typically enter your space to corrupt you. I assume they enter your space to get to know you. And when I talked to "The Democrat" about things that I won't make a mistake on again, it is with that assumption. I now, after two years of having gone through this and observed this process, have certainly questioned my need to make sure that as people come around me, particularly as I serve in higher levels of office and of governance, that I got to be clear to make sure that when people are in my space space, that they're there for right reasons.

BERMAN: President Obama is coming to campaign for you. Is it tomorrow. I don't know what day of the week it is right now, but I think he's coming for you Friday, and sources tell me that is, in fact, tomorrow. Friday is tomorrow.

GILLUM: It's tomorrow, yes.

BERMAN: Mayor Gillum, what impact do you think he will have in that state? I remember President Obama going to Florida to campaign for Hillary Clinton two years ago. At this point, do you think he will draw voters that you need to draw?

[08:10:00] GILLUM: Well, first of all, I've got a tremendous amount of respect for President Obama. I'm so honored that he would come into the state to give us some help here at the end. This race at this point is about turning out our votes. That's why the president is in town. His charade last night was not about appealing to independent voters or voters that are undecided. It is about ginning up energy in the base and getting the base to turn out.

Our race has been about going out and reaching every voter we can, which is I have been in red areas, blue areas, purple areas of the state. I was in the northern panhandle which is known for its Republican politics, campaigning. And we had crowds there that could not be contained by the spaces that we held the events at. I'm looking forward to the president helping us break through to different audiences and constituencies and, yes, helping us turn out as many voters as we possibly can in advance of Election Day.

BERMAN: Mayor Gillum, Mayor Andrew Gillum of Tallahassee, Democratic candidate for governor, thank you very much for being with us. We appreciate it. I do want to note -- thank you, governor -- thank you, mayor, I should say -- we invite Ron DeSantis, we invite him a lot to come on here. He did not accept our invitation.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. I'm starting to take that hint. He's not interested at the moment, but he is invited every single day.

Will President Trump's new shocking campaign video work? Rick Santorum and Ana Navarro, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: President Trump told reporters that his immigration rhetoric is not an attempt to fearmonger. Just minutes later the president sent out a video.

[08:15:00]

BERMAN: All right. President Trump told reporters that his immigration rhetoric is not an attempt to fear monger. Just minutes later the president sent out a video clearly designed to spark conversation on cable news more than anything else.

Joining us now to talk about the president's closing message, former republican senator from the state of Pennsylvania and CNN political commentator, Rick Santorum. Rick, thanks so much for being with us.

I think it's very interesting over the last few days what the president -- the message the president has sent out and the push back among republicans. I thought it was fascinating that Paul Ryan campaigning for republican members of Congress disputed publically and out loud the president's assertion on birthright citizenship.

I think it's fascinating what Jeff Zeleny was told yesterday by officials about republicans in Arizona and Nevada that they didn't want the president coming there to campaign because it wouldn't be helpful.

Are there limits -- I know that the immigration talk, the president thinks he can rile up base voters and I'm sure you agree, but what are the limits. We're seeing some limits to that.

RICK SANTORUM, SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's no question about it. Look, and that's the case in every election. I mean you have -- President Obama wouldn't go into certain states because he wasn't very popular or would be seen as a negative effect.

And I remember when I was running, President Bush was -- was -- sort of said no, don't come here. We don't -- you know you're going to hurt us. So that's not unusual in any -- in any election.

And for Paul Ryan -- look, Paul Ryan and the president disagreed on immigration for a long, long time. And it's not surprising Paul leaving -- you know he's on his way out to question the president on that.

And by the way, I don't think the president's right. I don't think the president can do what he says he's going to do. But, you know, on a -- and one of the things that I know that you hear a lot of complaints that republicans don't challenge the president.

I think they actually they do challenge the president quite a bit and this is an example of it.

BERMAN: It's interesting. Just to be clear hear, you do not think -- oh Anna Navarro is joining us now as well. Ana, I'm half way through a question with Rick; I just want to finish it. You don't think the president can do what he says he can do on birthright citizenship?

SANTORUM: No. Look, I think it's a legitimate issue to be debated. I know Lindsey Graham has a bill on it. I think that, you know, that there are instance where I think most Americans, for example, this birther (ph) tourism where people actually take a three week vacation to come here to have a child.

And leave so they're -- I mean those kinds of things we should look at and have a serious discussion as to whether we're going to allow that to continue or even have folks who are illegal in this country -- you know have -- have -- have birthright citizen for -- those are good discussions to have.

I don't think the president can unilaterally do it anymore than President Obama can unilaterally change (inaudible), which he tried to do.

BERMAN: All right Ana. So when you see the video that he put out last night -- again, it's a video, not an ad and I think as a video design it's for (ph) a cable news debate about it.

When you see that and you listen to what he's saying and where he's saying it, what do you think should be the republican closing message, Ana.

ANA NAVARRO, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, I think they have no choice as to what the republican closing message is. It's being led by Donald Trump. Yesterday we saw that he came to Florida; a state where just a few days ago, the person who sent explosives through the mail was put into court.

He was from here from Florida from just a few miles away. And what he's doing is sowing (ph) discord. What he's doing is using fear mongering, using scare tactics, demonizing immigrants and just dividing Americans.

Pitting us one against the other. That is right now, the republican closing message for so many of the candidates that have chosen to embrace Donald Trump. And, you know, I think democrats need to draw a contrast.

The only choice they have left is to draw an absolutely contrast with what they are offering and try to be uplifting and uniting and inspirational and I think we're seeing that play out completely here in Florida where you've got Rhonda Santos (ph) going in one direction and you're got Andrew Gillum offering completely the opposite.

BERMAN: It is interesting as we watch this; democrats want to focus on healthcare. They say they're focusing on health care. Rick, do you think that's an effective message for democrats? Do you think that democrats are scoring some points on that?

SANTORUM: Well, I think they wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't effective but you don't want to talk about dividing them. I mean you're out there saying that republicans are against people with preexisting condition getting coverage.

I mean that's just simply not true. I mean I don't know -- I mean the president, even when he ran for office back in 2016 said he'd never sign a bill that doesn't do that. And the House passed a bill that covered preexisting conditions.

The Senate was doing the same thing. So again, you want to talk about divisiveness and misrepresenting what the other side is doing. Look, this happens in every election. And so this is -- you know I was involved in how many races saying I was going to abolish social security and Medicare and throw Graham off a cliff.

So this is not new and you know both sides do it and this is the -- this is what happens in the last week of an election.

BERMAN: Ana, I want to play (ph) with the president.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Look, I think it's particularly -- it's particularly ugly and it's particularly untimely after -- after the tree of life murders, after what we saw with Cesar Sayoc could be the man who sent the explosives. Look, Rick, in the state you represented and you love, people are begging this president to tone down the rhetoric.

[08:20:00]

It's - you know, one of the things that triggered the madman in Pittsburgh was precisely demonizing immigrants, demonizing the caravan, and he's doing it. And he's - I mean he's doubling down. He's doing it exponentially. And it's just - you know it's hurtful.

It's terrible for this to be happening a few days after those murders. And it is leadership by division, which worked, worked for Donald Trump in 2016. He is going back to what worked. So really, now it's up to the American people to choose, do they want that kind of fear mongering? Do they want that kind of division in America, somebody that incites fear, incites angst? Or do they want something else?

BERMAN: Senator, do you want to respond to that?

SANTORUM: Yes, well, again, I go back. Look, I don't know where you have been, Ana. I mean the reality is the democrats have been inciting fear on a variety of different subjects to try to motivate their voters for a long, long time, you know, saying that, you know, we're going to bring back Jim Crow I mean and that we are - you know, we're trying to block - I mean on - last night, on one of the programs, you had someone accuse a candidate for - for - for governor of Kansas being a racist, you know.

And these are the kinds of things that - that I agree with you. The rhetoric is bad, and it's bad on both sides and it's - and the - and the coursing of our politics has gotten worse. I agree wholeheartedly with that, but don't blame it just on Donald Trump. It's been going on and it's been getting bad for a long, long time and it's being exacerbated by both sides of this election. NAVARRO: But Rick, don't you think there is something particularly - particularly obnoxious and insensitive to be doubling down on this caravan, be doubling down on this precisely when it was the aid of Jewish groups, the Hebrew IAS (ph), that triggered this madman?

And for Trump to be irresponsibly doing this and just focusing on this laser focus (ph) - Look, he's got to be happy as a claim right now, Donald Trump, because instead of talking about how his rhetoric and how his words have led to divisiveness and to triggering maniacs, instead of that we are having conversations about immigration, and the shots are, again, regarding the border and the caravan.

Like he himself said a few days ago, we don't want to - you know, he doesn't want to talk about the bomb stuff. He wants it to be all about creating hysteria, creating angst, giving anxiety to the American people.

BERMAN: Can I - can I play one bit of sound? There was an interview that the president did last night with ABC's Jonathan Karl, where he said something that I think is a little breathtaking about the troops. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I do try, and I always want to tell the truth. When I can, I tell the truth. I mean sometimes it turns out to be where something happens, it's different or there's is a change. But I always like to be truthful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: "I always like to be truthful. I tell the truth when I can." Rick, is that the standard that you live by as an elected official?

SANTORUM: Look, I've been on this program many, many times and been on programs for the last two years, not - you know, criticizing the president for - for his, you know, disconnection to the truth on occasion. And I think that is a problem. He doesn't have to do it, and it frustrates me when he does do it.

And so, no, I - look, I really wish the president would try to, you know, stick to the script and talk about the policies that he's - that he's trying to implement. He's been successful. We've got a great economy. You know, we've made tremendous progress on national security. I mean there's a lot of good things that this president can be talking about, and playing around with the truth is never a good thing.

BERMAN: Ana?

NAVARRO: Playing around with the truth in my book used to be called lying. And this president has issued more than 5,000 lies in the short time he's been president and - 5,000 and counting. The truth - the truth doesn't matter anymore to this president. He's using the presidency to spread lies. And like they told us early on in this administration, it is all about alternative facts. Most Americans call alternative facts damn shameful lies.

BERMAN: Ana Navarro, former Senator Rick Santorum, thanks so much for being with us, appreciate it.

CAMEROTA: All right, John. If democrats win on Election Day, it could set the stage for a leadership battle in the house. More on the split over Nancy Pelosi, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:25:00]

CAMEROTA: House Minority Leader, Nancy Pelosi is predicting a flip of at least 30 seats on Tuesday which would give democrats control of the house. Far tougher to predict is whether enough democrats would support Pelosi being speaker again. CNN's Manu Raju is live in Washington with more, what's the status Manu?

MANU RAJU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey Alisyn. Pelosi, (inaudible) it's really all about the margin of any democratic majority, one or two seat majority will make it hard for her to reclaim the speaker's gavel, but if they have a 10 seat or more majority -- much easier.

I traveled to a conservative district in Kansas where democrats have a shot at picking up a seat, and what a democrat candidate told me bluntly, he will not support Pelosi as he goes up against a republican candidate who is a political novice and has tried to link him to Pelosi. Now the big question though, is are all these republican attacks in Pelosi, working?

It has been a decade since a democrat won a house seat in this conservative eastern Kansas district that overwhelmingly supported Donald Trump in 2016. But in yet another major warning sign for republicans ahead of next weeks' midterms, a democrat, Paul Davis could pick up this seat as he pitches himself as a middle-of-the-road candidate. If democrats like Paul Davis do win, that could flip the house and effectively make Nancy Pelosi the next speaker. There's just one problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL DAVIS, POLITICIAN: There isn't a circumstance in which I'm going to support Pelosi. There are times when you just need some new blood, and I think this is the time.