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New Day

16 States Sue Trump Over National Emergency To Build Wall; Rod Rosenstein Expect To Leave Justice Department In Mid-March; Trump Confidante Believes Intel Chief Dan Coats Will Be Fired; Lawsuit: Emergency Declaration "Unconstitutional & Unlawful Scheme"; Senator Amy Klobuchar Makes Her Case At CNN Town Hall; Klobuchar Defends Record: "Yes, I Am A Tough Boss"; Warren To Release Universal Child Care Plan Paid For By "Wealth Tax"; Democratic Primary Voters Growing More Diverse; Senator Bernie Sanders Announces 2020 Presidential Run; Hate Crime Hoax?; Police: 2 Brothers No Longer Suspects In "Empire" Actor Case; Sources: Smollett Paid Brothers To Orchestrate Attack; "Empire" Actor Denies Any Role In His Alleged Attack; Suing Trump; Sanders Joins 2020 Race. Aired: 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 19, 2019 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is New Day with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman:

JOHN BERMAN, ANCHOR, CNN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day. It's Tuesday, February 19th, 6 o'clock here in New York. And we do have breaking news this morning, a lawsuit, a big one, that could stand in the way the President's plans for a border wall.

Overnight, a group of 16 states move to block President Trump's declaration of a national emergency which he issued to bypass Congress and secure funding for the border wall. the States argue the President does not have the power to divert funds because it is Congress that controls spending. They say the President is violating the Constitution and stealing money from Americans. This starts a process that could go all the way to the Supreme Court and possibly last through the 2020 election.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, ANCHOR, CNN: Also, new this morning, CNN has learned that Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein, the man overseeing Robert Mueller's Russia investigation will be leaving soon. Does that mean that Mueller is close to wrapping up his probe or just that President Trump is annoyed with Rosenstein? This as a confidante for President Trump tell CNN that the Director of National Intelligence, Dan Coats may be fired soon. The President is apparently fuming at Coats for contradicting him on foreign policy in testimony before Congress.

Meanwhile, Senator Amy Klobuchar making her case to be President in a CNN Town Hall event last night. We'll look at how she did.

BERMAN: Joining us now, Carrie Cordero. She was previously Counsel to the U.S. Assistant Attorney General, Joe Lockhart, he was previously President Clinton's White House Press Secretary. He joins us from Iowa which I assume means he's running, and Jackie Kucinich she is the Washington bureau chief at The Daily Beast.

I want to start with this lawsuit, 16 states filed overnight essentially making two arguments. Number one, that the President can't go around Congress and spend money. Number two, there's not an actual emergency. To that point, the lawsuit states and explaining his rationale for the executive actions the President candidly admitted that the emergency declaration reflected his personal preference to construct the wall more quickly rather than the actual urgent need for it to be built immediately and they cite this statement he made at the White House on Friday, listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I could do the wall over a longer period of time. I didn't need to do this, but I'd rather do it much faster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So Carrie the two arguments there, not an emergency, "I didn't need to do this," number two, he can't spend money that Congress won't spend which is more likely to sway the courts.

CARRIE CORDERO, FORMER COUNSEL TO THE U.S. ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL FOR NATIONAL SECURITY: I think actually the stronger argument legally is going to be the argument that he has subverted the will of Congress that he is misusing statutory authority as opposed to the argument that there isn't actually a national emergency. And that's because not because I don't think that the President has contrived this as a crisis and really he admitted it himself but traditionally courts give the President the executive a lot of deference when it comes to making decisions about whether or not there is a National Security issue.

On the other hand, the argument by the States that he has subverted the will of Congress because Congress had time to actually pass a law. The National Emergencies Act was intended to address situations when Congress doesn't have time to act and because in this case Congress actually did have time to act and pass a law that they sent to him for signature, it shows that they did have time to act and they expressed their specific guidance in terms of appropriations for what the money was supposed to be spent on.

CAMEROTA: Yes. The money. And so Jackie it sounds like that's one of the things that the States are hanging their hat on, the big thing, I should say. Because this money was already designate four things, things that people in the States were counting on, things that lawmakers had fought for. I mean, ironically one of the things is drug interdiction funds. So the very thing that the President says is causing the national emergency, drugs pouring over the southern border, the funds to fight that he would divert elsewhere.

JACKIE KUCINICH, POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: And that's one of the first things I heard from members of Congress, particularly those who are on the Armed Services Committee and I don't think they're just going to be Democrats that are upset about this in terms of Congress. These projects they had to wait in line for these military construction projects, but to your point with the drug and addiction programs, these are programs that seek to stop the drugs in the countries where they come from rather than having to stop them at the border.

So the Congressman I spoke to, John Garamendi, from California he said, "They're not thinking. This is short-sighted." And I think you're going to hear more of that as we go forward and I wouldn't be surprised if it's from the other side of the aisle.

BERMAN: I mean, Garamendi has gone through item-by-item, all of the spending that could be affected here and these are the arguments I think that people when they begin to hear them may sink in.

[06:05:03]

Joe Lockhart, the President knew this was coming, he knew this lawsuit was coming and told us so in song on Friday. So let's listen to what the President said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They will sue us in the Ninth Circuit even though it shouldn't be there, and we will possibly get a bad ruling, and then we'll get another bed ruling, and then we'll end up in the Supreme Court and hopefully we'll get a fair shake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That is a catchy diddy.

BERMAN: Which brings us back to doe, a deer, a female deer.

((Crosstalk))

BERMAN: So Joe, the fact that he knew the lawsuit was coming, does this show that the President's move was a political play all along? It's just to show he was doing something even though now it will be tied up in the courts for months if not years.

JOE LOCKHART, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, CNN: Yes, I think so and thank you, John. I had finally gotten that song out of my head, but you've ruined my day. Listen, I think this is all a political ploy on a couple of levels. One is the country doesn't want the wall, but when the President sets up a fight between the presidency and Congress, that's much stronger footing for the President. I think you see that in the polls.

The country is split on who should be running the country, because people have a low opinion of Congress. They may have a low opinion of Trump but they've got a lower one of Congress and Congress has earned that over the years. Secondly, the President deep down knows that he can't build a wall from sea to shining sea.

What he wants is he wants the issue in the 2020 election. He wants to be able to say, "Democrats kept me from doing this that's why drugs are pouring in, rapists are pouring in." All of the rhetoric. I don't think it's a great strategy, but it's the best strategy he has and this almost guarantees that he'll have it for the 2020 election.

CAMEROTA: There you go because I want to know about the timeline, Carrie, because when Stephen Miller was on this weekend on a news show, he said that he thought that the wall could be built around September of 2020. Now, how that is an emergency if that's 19 months from now? It sounds like a political emergency. So is there no way to expedite this in the court so that we don't have to wait 20 months to find the outcome and it can happen sooner so that it doesn't play directly into 2020?

CORDERO: Well, different courts operate at different paces. This is a big case that many states have filed, this first case, and there's going to be more cases. So it's hard to say which cases filed and which districts will take how long. The courts can expedite it but they're not going to expedite it for political reasons. The judicial branch is on a different schedule than the political side of things and so, well, they might expedite it to some degree if they can and if it makes sense for the States.

The first issue for the States is whether or not they even have standing to bring this case and standing sometimes itself can take a while to litigate, that states will have to demonstrate that they actually would experience harm by diverting money away from these bases or diverting money away from the counterterrorist, excuse me, the counter narcotics measures that you mentioned.

So they have to make that case and then there's going to be other cases filed by public interest groups. So it still will take some time and from Joe's perspective I would think still give plenty of time for this to be political issue.

KUCINICH: But I don't know that that's even going to - I think it's making a big assumption that this will even help them at the end of the day. Look at the midterm elections, they ran on the wall. They ran on immigration and it didn't work out for Republicans. So it is an assumption by Stephen Miller anyway that this would be a good issue for them.

BERMAN: A couple of White House departures, one administration departure, one that appears imminent, one that the President's friend is musing about. The one that's imminent, Rod Rosenstein, CNN reporting leaving the Justice Department the Deputy AG job by mid- March, the other Chris Ruddy who runs a magazine tells Christiane Amanpour that the Director of National Intelligence could be out soon, pushed out because of publicly offering intelligence to the President of the United States.

CAMEROTA: How dare he.

BERMAN: How dare he.

CAMEROTA: How dare the Director of National Intelligence use actual intelligence.

BERMAN: Chris Ruddy, this is what he told Christiane Amanpour. Let's listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS RUDDY, DONALD TRUMP'S FRIEND: I think you have a classic example here where Director Coats is trying to make policy and not inform policy. Now, I'm hearing from sources around the White House, there's just general disappointment of the President with Director Coats. There's a feeling that maybe there needs to be a change of leadership in that position.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Should we play the moment where Director of National Intelligence ran afoul?

BERMAN: Do we have it?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Let's play it.

CAMEROTA: So this is what he said and what aroused the ire of the President.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We have one against ISIS. We've beaten them and we've beaten them badly.

DAN COATS, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: ISIS is intent on resurging and still commands thousands of fighters in Iraq and Syria.

[06:10:01]

TRUMP: Kim, we have a great chemistry and we're well on our way. You know, we signed an agreement. It said we will begin the immediate denuclearization.

COATS: North Korea will seek to retain its WMD capabilities and is unlikely to completely give up its nuclear weapons and production capabilities ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So under oath, Joe, the DNI told Congress that he didn't think that Kim Jong-Un was likely to give up his nuclear weapons and apparently the President is upset about that.

LOCKHART: Yes. This is really a remarkable sort of 36 hours. I can't imagine another President when the former acting Director of the FBI came out and said that the President didn't listen to his Intel community because Vladimir Putin told him it wasn't true. Normal Presidents and their staff would run out and try to say, "We believe in the Intel community. They're valuable. It's very important. It's not Putin."

This administration then within 24 hours says, "We're going to get rid of our Intel community. We're going to get rid of Dan Coats." It is really remarkable and I know we're all becoming numb to this, but this is not normal. This is not good for the country. This is dangerous.

On Rosenstein, I don't think it means anything beyond Rosenstein. He said he was going to leave months ago when Barr got there. So I don't think it signals either that he's any more upset than he has been at Trump for the last year and a half or that Mueller is wrapped up. I think it's - we expected this and it's going to happen.

CAMEROTA: It just may happen on a faster track. I mean, ever since Andrew McCabe came out in 60 Minutes and his book is coming out and talking about it, Carrie, he just may exit, Rosenstein just may exit sooner because of all the talk about the 25th Amendment, et cetera. But back to DNI Coats, I think that we do need to put a marker in the sand here because as Joe said we've reported a lot of outrageous things, but the idea - that wasn't DNI Coats suggesting policy, that was him explaining the intelligence that he's seen which is his job and what he's tasked with and the President it sounds like doesn't like that intelligence and may fire him because he doesn't like the facts.

CORDERO: Well, he doesn't like the intelligence. He also doesn't like the fact that DNI Coats said it publicly. DNI Coats has maintained a pretty low profile throughout his tenure as the Director of National Intelligence in order to maintain his advisory capacity to the President. What happened with the President doesn't like it, he doesn't like the checks and balances of our constitutional system and so he doesn't like that.

In January, DNI Coats and the other intelligence agency chiefs were called before Congress which they are every single year to give a worldwide threat briefing and they did that in public and they're under oath when they do it and so they have to reveal truthfully what the intelligence reveals. That's the piece that he doesn't like.

BERMAN: He was testifying under oath to the Intelligence Committee answering questions about intelligence as he is required to do.

CAMEROTA: How dare he. Carrie, Joe, Jackie, thank you all very much. Now, for this, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar making her pitch to voters in a CNN Town Hall last night. We'll tell you what she revealed about her platform, next.

[06:15:00]

BERMAN: Fascinating new details revealed overnight in a CNN Town Hall in New Hampshire, Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar trying to carve out some space in the Democratic presidential primary, specific space near the center. CNN Suzanne Malveaux live in Manchester, New Hampshire with the very latest. Suzanne.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT, CNN: Good morning, John. Well, yes, she took on her first town hall. This was just eight days after making her announcement for candidacy in that memorable snowstorm and, of course, it was a new format to introduce herself but she has remained consistent. She is empathetic. She is funny. She's relatable and she's unapologetically moderate, which really makes her standout in this crowded Democratic field.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMY KLOBUCHAR, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's great to be in New Hampshire where I appear to have brought my permanent snow globe with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Senator Amy Klobuchar positioning herself as a moderate in a growing field of Democratic hopefuls offering voters pragmatic solutions while avoiding the big campaign promises championed by many of the party's progressive candidates. On the question of Medicare for all touted by Senator Kamala Harris among others, Klobuchar emphasizing that her focus is on bringing down healthcare costs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: I think it's something that we can look to for the future, but I want to get action now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When asked if she supports free four-year college, Klobuchar's answer straightforward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: Okay, so I am not for free four-year college for all, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead, the Minnesota Democrat advocating for free two-year Community College programs, extending Pell grants and helping students refinance their loans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: I wish if I was a magic genie and could give that to everyone and we could afford it, I would.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As for the green new deal championed by progressive freshman Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Klobuchar stressing that she sees the plan as a starting point for an important discussion about climate change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: I think that they are aspirations. I think we can get close.

(END VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The presidential hopeful showing she's more than

Minnesota nice, slamming President Trump's use of a national emergency declaration to build a border wall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: This is unconstitutional, what he is doing, okay? It is wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On reports that she has mistreated her staff, Klobuchar unapologetic saying her high standards will help her successfully run the country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KLOBUCHAR: Am I a tough boss? Sometimes, yes. Have I pushed people to a hard? Yes. But I have kept expectations for myself that are very high. I've asked my staff to meet those same expectations and that - the big point for me is I want the country to meet high expectations because we don't have that going now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: And interestingly enough, that was the first and the loudest, the greatest applause line that she got in the evening at the town hall.

[06:20:05]

As for those series of liberal policies that Klobuchar has rejected, it really will be a litmus test perhaps even presenting some landmines for the Democratic candidates who are now looking at a party, the Democratic Party, that is more increasingly leaning left and, of course, the question is whether or not there's an appetite for candidate like Klobuchar who is decidedly in the middle, John, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And we're going to get an answer to that right now. Suzanne Malveaux, thank you very much. Let's bring back Joe Lockhart, Jackie Kucinich and bring in John Avlon. So John Avlon, on the same time Senator Amy Klobuchar was doing our CNN Town Hall. Senator Elizabeth Warren is coming forward with her progressive idea for universal child care. So from, I think, birth till something like kindergarten, I guess.

JOHN AVLON, SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST, CNN: It raises almost - I was going to do a cradle to grave joke, but it's inappropriate.

CAMEROTA: No, it's cradle to kindergarten.

AVLON: Yes.

CAMEROTA: She would propose that every child be able have child care, so parents can work, et cetera. So where is the country? I mean, where is - we're saying pragmatism versus progressivism, is that - if that's a word and do we know where America and where the voters are today?

AVLON: What I think we know definitively is the Democratic Party has moved very far to left compared to where it was under President Obama. I mean consider that like Amy Klobuchar is the candidate of the Democratic Farm and Labor Party, that's what they call the Democratic Party in Minnesota. Sherrod Brown, another candidate, very to the left, historically.

These folks look like moderates in today's context. The policy she's putting forward were actually very consistent what President Obama did. It's not Medicare for all, public option. Let's make incremental project - progress, 2-year community college not 4-year. And so she really stands out in this field, because she's not pandering to left and that has a sort of breadth of honesty to it, because she's not promising the moon.

But it really speaks to how far the Democratic Party has gone in terms of its policy prescriptions that she is seeming moderate today because that was not necessarily the case a decade ago.

BERMAN: I will say I think the last 24 hours has been fascinating with this aggressive positioning you have seen with the candidates, Klobuchar last night trying to carve out the middle and I think what Elizabeth Warren did at the same time was no accident. And I think what she's trying to say with the child care proposal is that, wait a second, this isn't some progressive pipe dream, because child care I think is much more relatable to everybody.

AVLON: Yes.

BERMAN: And so she's saying if this is what you're going to point the finger at and say it's not realistic, I'm sorry, then this is what I'm providing here.

KUCINICH: Well, Elizabeth Warren has been very consistent about her messaging. That is one thing she definitely has going for her. She's always been a progressive. She's always advocated for these kind of policies. The problem that - and maybe it's on purpose. I feel like there are a lot of candidates right now that are proposing paying for these initiatives, be it the green new deal or what Elizabeth Warren is talking about by taxing the rich.

Maybe that's their solution for quite a few things. We'll see. But I think you're going to end up running into some problems there as we go forward. But we are in that part of the primary where it really is shoot for the moon, you'll land among the stars when it comes to policy prescriptions, because they're putting it all out there and it's not necessarily what is perhaps practical but they want to have this aspirational message.

BERMAN: I guess what I'm saying though is the childcare doesn't necessarily sound as wacky to some.

KUCINICH: No, it doesn't.

BERMAN: No. KUCINICH: Absolutely not.

BERMAN: As some of the proposals that are out there.

KUCINICH: Absolutely not and that's something perhaps people could get behind, a wealth tax, because child care in this country is exorbitantly expensive and it is very hard for parents and single parents to afford that and hold a job.

AVLON: And just as a marker of how things change, I mean, Ivanka Trump right now is pushing for paid family leave. When Bill Clinton first proposed that, it was considered a socialist scheme by Republicans at the time. So debates do change over time and they become clarifiers.

CAMEROTA: But Joe what I'm wondering is I understand the party has moved to the left as we've seen by some of these candidates, but the people is what I'm wondering. Is there a sense that Democrats, the voters and the country as a whole because you have to win in general, have moved to the left?

LOCKHART: Yes. I mean, that's exactly the right question because I don't think it's right when you say the party has lurched to the left. Some candidates for president have lurched for the left and I think John Avlon is right when Sherrod Brown is sort of saying, "Hold on a second, this Medicare for all is too much too fast." You you've seen how far Elizabeth Warren and some others.

And when Kamala Harris goes to New Hampshire for the first time and says first off, "I'm not a Democratic Socialist," you know something. Look back at the midterms. The midterms was a win for democratic moderates. In the competitive races in the primaries, I think 33 out of 40 the moderate beat the liberal. So I don't think the Democratic Party has lurched to the left, the people.

I think some of these candidates were going to have a big old debate about this.

[06:25:00]

But I think because there's such a strong feeling among Democrats that Donald Trump has to go, I think electability is going to be the single most important issue for Democrats in the primaries and the caucuses, not ideological purity. So I think you're going to see a lot of people doing what we've seen in the last 24 to 36 hours, it's trying to stake out a middle ground while Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and some others go very far to the left.

BERMAN: Guys, on that note, we have breaking news including the music there, just now Bernie Sanders, the independent Senator from the State of Vermont announced he is running for President again. He just made this announcement on Vermont Public Radio. I believe we have that sound, let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNIE SANDERS, UNITED STATES SENATOR: By just operating inside the billed price.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Influencing your decision.

SANDERS: The only way that I know we - well, first of all I wanted to let the people of the State of Vermont know about this first. And what I promise to do is as I go around the country is to take the values that all of us in Vermont are proud of, our belief in justice, in community, in grassroots politics and town meetings. That's what I'm going to carry all over this country.

I think the current occupant of the White House is an embarrassment to our country. I think he is a pathological liar every day. He is telling one lie or another. And it gives me no pleasure to say that, but I also think he is a racist, a sexist, a homophobe, a xenophobe, somebody who is gaining cheap political points by trying to pick on minorities often undocumented immigrants.

And I cannot recall certainly in my lifetime and I think in modern history that we've had a President who actually goes out of his way to try to divide the American people up based on where we were born or the color of our skin or our gender or whatever it may be. So I think what a President has got to do is bring our people together and not divide us up and that's certainly one reason I'm running. And the second reason is we began the political revolution in the 2016 campaign and now it's time to move that revolution forward and make sure that that vision, those ideas are implemented into policy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now ...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The headline there, Bernie Sanders is running for President again. The runner up in the Democratic race in 2016 is now in the race. That's a big deal, John.

AVLON: It's a huge deal and history says that the person who comes in second the last time around usually is in a very strong position to win a nomination this time around. That's not necessarily the case in Bernie Sanders, but there's no question his impact on the Democratic debate within that party has been stunning. He almost single-handedly after being really a lone voice in the woods on the far, far left really changed the debate, and it gave strength to the extent that you've got a whole generation of candidates running as Democratic Socialists in the Bernie Sanders model and he can expect to draw on that energy. He's not going to have that lane alone.

KUCINICH: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Well, there you go. Exactly, that's the point and the political sands have shifted in the time since he came in second. And so when he says we started the political revolution, it's time for us to finish it, a lot of people have filled that land.

KUCINICH: Oh, yes. There's lots of generals in the political revolution now and it just - in terms of where the money goes, where the enthusiasm goes, Bernie Sanders is going to have to work for it this time perhaps in a way that - I'm not saying he didn't work for it last time, but there was no alternative to Bernie Sanders before and now there are several.

BERMAN: You heard his long statement to Vermont Public Radio. He talked a lot about race there. He did not do well with African- American voters in the primary last time. So a very specific plea there. Also interesting, Bernie Sanders did very well with younger voters in 2016, not so much with older voters. Now there are a lot of younger candidates in the field there. That could be a challenge. He win over the older voters. That remains to be seen.

And Joe Lockhart, now what Senator Kamala Harris said in New Hampshire yesterday rings even more to me. She perhaps had a premonition that Bernie Sanders is getting in the race today, because look what she volunteers when talked to by a reporter yesterday. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, SENATOR OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, the people of New Hampshire will tell you what's required to compete in New Hampshire, but I will tell you I am not a Democratic Socialist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Kamala Harris volunteering she's not a Democratic Socialist, Bernie Sanders is.

LOCKHART: Listen, I think the Democratic Socialist movement in the Democratic Party is the single most overblown story so far in this cycle. You have a couple of high-profile people who've gotten into Congress on a very liberal sort of Democratic Socialists out of 235, so I don't think there's much to that. And Bernie Sanders did come in second last time, he also came in second to last.

[06:30:00]