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New Book Details Ivanka Trump And Jared Kushner's Rise To Power; Interview With "Kushner, Inc." Author Vicky Ward; 2020 President Candidate Midweek Grades With Chris Cillizza. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired March 20, 2019 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00] VICKY WARD, AUTHOR, "KUSHNER, INC.: GREED. AMBITION. CORRUPTION. THE EXTRAORDINARY STORY OF JARED KUSHNER AND IVANKA TRUMP": -- the whole thing.

Explain to Ivanka that, in fact, her father had very deliberately said what he said. It wasn't a slip of the tongue. It was deliberate.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I want to go to break but I want to want to read one Gary Cohn quote to have people think on and I'm going to ask you about this after the break. You talk about Gary Cohn.

You say, "He was upset that they were not sufficiently upset. And he was upset that they seemed to think, as they always did, that this was one more public relations problem that needed to be massaged.

In his mind, Kushner and Ivanka were not the Trump whisperers they claimed to be. They were complicit. They only pretended to be the good guys."

One of the big questions I want to know -- and we'll talk about this after the break -- is what do you think that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump want?

Much more of Vicky Ward right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, I am back with Vicky Ward, the author of the new book "Kushner, Inc.: Greed. Ambition. Corruption: The Extraordinary Story of Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump."

And, Vicky, I asked you what Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner want.

And let me just read you a quote from your book. "Ivanka Trump has made no secret of the fact that she wants to be the most powerful woman in the world. Her father's reign in Washington, D.C. is, she believes, the beginning of a great American dynasty. She thinks she's going to be president of the United States, Gary Cohn told people after leaving the White House.

[07:35:12] She thinks this is like the Kennedys, the Bushes, and now the Trumps." WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: Is that what Ivanka Trump wants?

WARD: Yes. I mean, look, you know, I think it's fair. She is the Trump in the White House.

The interesting thing is I think -- I also say in the book that someone's quoted as saying well, neither of her brothers would vote for her because it's not clear if Ivanka Trump ran for president who her support -- which party she belongs to because the Republicans don't think she supports their agenda and the Democrats don't like her ethics. So, I guess she's running on the Ivanka ticket.

BERMAN: You said, and this stuck out -- this is one of the little things that jumped out to me -- the phrase "first daughter" --

WARD: Right.

BERMAN: -- is thrown about in the White House and in the press a lot. You said she likes the term.

WARD: Well, this is the problem that everyone in the White House has, right? She wants it all ways. So it's one set of rules for her and Jared because they're the first daughter and her husband, and one set of rules for everyone else. And yet, she also expects to be taken seriously as a senior adviser to the president.

And I think several of her colleagues have -- certainly, Steve Bannon told her but other people, too, you can't have it both ways.

You know, if you're going to go to the White House you have to work the same hours as other people. That was one of the complaints that she comes in late. She's perceived to be very flighty. A lot of clothing changes, particularly if she's going to do an interview on television.

BERMAN: A lot of vacations.

WARD: A lot of what?

BERMAN: A lot of vacations.

WARD: And yes, that was the other thing which someone said to me perhaps rather facetiously -- we loved it when they were away and we wish they took more with their father. They can't understand why they go on so many vacations.

BERMAN: There was an episode in the news. CNN reported -- was the first to report that the president was involved in getting Ivanka Trump's security clearance. Well, Ivanka Trump did an interview with ABC and said no, my father had absolutely nothing to do with it.

So are you surprised by those two different stories? They both can't be true.

WARD: No. I mean, it's not the first lie she's told.

I mean, it's like when she told or said in a T.V. interview -- oh, I speak to my father candidly in private. And then, Gary Cohn found out when it came to the Paris Climate Accord -- no, she doesn't.

You know, Ivanka -- you have to remember what she wrote. Perception is more important than reality. She lives in her own reality.

BERMAN: So what does Jared Kushner want -- that he was the secretary of everything? You know, he was claiming different portfolios, whether it be trade negotiations with Mexico, Middle East peace or whatnot. Was he -- or does he see himself as qualified to run U.S. foreign policy?

WARD: Well clearly, he does because that's what he's doing.

And it's -- look, you asked what he wants. I mean, he wants money. He wants to avenge what happened to his father. You know, there's huge ambition there.

I mean, and that's why we have greed, ambition, corruption. That's why they're in the headline --

BERMAN: All right.

WARD: -- or the title of the book.

BERMAN: I do want to read to you what the response has been from team Kushner here and this comes from a spokesperson for Abbe Lowell --

WARD: Right.

BERMAN: -- who is Jared Kushner's lawyer.

WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: And that sourcing in interesting in and of itself.

WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: It says, "Every point that Ms. Ward mentions in what she called her fact-checking stage was entirely false. It seems she has written a book of fiction rather any serious attempt to get the facts. Correcting everything wrong would take too long and be pointless."

WARD: Yes. So, I sent them fact-checking questions -- about eight or nine that needed yes or no answers. You know, it would have taken, I would imagine, five minutes at most.

My response, the truth hurts.

BERMAN: Did they -- did you correct anything or did they correct anything?

WARD: No. They came back with this ludicrous response.

BERMAN: No response at all.

WARD: So, yes. I mean, yes -- so I think it's garbage.

BERMAN: Gary Cohn, who again is mentioned frequently in the book, has come out since this and said he is still friends with Jared Kushner.

WARD: Yes, but he also has not said that anything I've reported is wrong. Nobody has said that anything I've reported is wrong.

I had a team of seven fact-checkers with me. I interviewed 220 different people, 118 of them multiple times. All of the scenes in the book have got multiple sources.

You know, it's -- every single book that's come out about this White House has had -- you know, even the great Bob Woodward had to rely on anonymous sources because -- because Jared and Ivanka and the president are known to be extremely vindictive.

BERMAN: There have been some successes that Jared Kushner --

WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: -- has claimed.

WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: He has been involved in the trade negotiations with Mexico. There is a deal there that has to be voted on --

WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: -- still, by Congress.

There's also the criminal justice reform --

WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: -- where our Van Jones, who talked to Jared all the time, said that he was key.

[07:40:00] WARD: Yes.

BERMAN: If not for Jared, this won't have happened.

WARD: You know, and I say that. I give him credit for that, absolutely, in the book -- for the criminal justice reform bill -- getting that through Congress.

My admiration, though, is that it is tempered -- and forgive me of my cynicism -- because of the self -- the obvious self-interest. I mean, that is all about his father. So whilst I think it's wonderful that he did that -- again, it's all about Jared.

BERMAN: It's so interesting because I was quoting from a spokesperson for Jared Kushner's lawyer from outside the White House and it makes me think that there is an apparatus -- a Jared and Ivanka ink in Washington the likes of which I've never seen before.

They have a lawyer who has a spokesperson --

WARD: Right.

BERMAN: -- outside the White House. They had a P.R. person inside the White House.

WARD: Right.

BERMAN: They have a chief of staff inside the White House. Such an unusual machinery.

WARD: Well, and a really off-putting machinery, all their current -- and very against the spirit of what it's meant to be in government.

You're supposed to go into government to serve. You're supposed to divest yourself of everything else -- of all -- you know, of all stocks and shares -- any assets. You go and you don't expect to make much money for a while and serve.

You're not supposed to hang onto most of your assets and cocoon yourself with your own P.R. people. You know, a lawyer who's got his own P.R. person, a chief of staff.

I mean, it's one rule for them and one rule for everyone else. I mean, it's so un-American and it's so wrong.

BERMAN: Where does this end, do you think?

WARD: Interesting. So, I sort of say in the book as I -- in the epilogue, we're going to -- we're at a crossroads and it's going to go one of two ways.

Either now that Congress has subpoena power -- and I think you Mueller has said some of the threads that are in the book about their finances to other prosecutors -- other investigators -- they will be held to account. Or, this relentless march to wherever is unstoppable.

BERMAN: And just finally, again, one of the other themes that is throughout this book -- is there a self-awareness? Do Jared Kushner or Ivanka Trump have a self-awareness when it comes to their position in the White House or what they have achieved in life? The "born on third base" phrase is one you bring up in the book.

WARD: Yes. So, the -- you know, my reporting shows that both of them are astonishingly unaware that they were born on third base. That they live in their own reality, which is precisely why they don't understand how unethical and how wrong it seems to have held onto their assets, to have business meetings in the White House, to close the White House locks to conduct your own business networking.

You know, somebody -- people who are more aware would realize the absolutely appalling optics of that.

BERMAN: Vicky Ward, thank you so much for the conversation. The book is "Kushner, Inc.: Greed. Ambition. Corruption." I think

it has started a conversation. It will be a loud conversation among some. I'm sure you're hearing from both sides.

Thanks so much for being with us.

WARD: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: Erica --

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: And a fascinating conversation.

We are also looking ahead to 2020 -- the race heating up. Who is passing the early test? Who may need a little boost at this point?

Chris Cillizza is here next with his midweek grades of the 2020 candidates.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:47:19] HILL: A new CNN poll shows Sen. Kamala Harris rapidly gaining support with enthusiasm high among voters in both parties.

Take a look at the numbers. Democrats and Democratic-leaning voters have Joe Biden on top 20 percent there, as you can see. Of course, keep in mind he hasn't officially jumped into the race yet.

BERMAN: Bernie Sanders comes in second with 20 percent. The next two candidates are now in double-digit territory. Kamala Harris is third with 12 percent, up eight points since December. And, Beto O'Rourke at 11 percent.

We should note this poll was conducted prior to O'Rourke's 2020 announcement last week, which is pretty interesting.

HILL: That it is.

With more on the 2020 candidates at the top of the class and the ones who are maybe falling a little behind this week, we turn to Chris Cillizza, "CNN POLITICS" reporter and editor-at-large, with the midweek grades.

CHRIS CILLIZZA, REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE, CNN POLITICS: Well, just seeing -- just seeing that book, Erica -- that exam book -- it gives me clammy hands because that was not my specialty. Grades, not Chris Cillizza's specialty in school. But now, I get to do it. Take that, teachers.

HILL: OK, go.

CILLIZZA: Let's run through them. You guys interrupt me wherever you want to.

Let's start with Beto O'Rourke. I gave Beto O'Rourke an A and the reason for that is not because -- yes, he's made a few gaffes here and there and hasn't been great. He's kind of a new candidate and not a lot of policy.

But one thing gets you an A in my book -- $6.1 million raised in your first 24 hours -- more than Bernie Sanders. Money talks. You need money to build organizations in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and it speaks to a national donor network that O'Rourke has. That is meaningful.

OK, let's go to my next one. I'm not an easy grader but I like the folks in the positive first.

Elizabeth Warren, A. I'll tell you why. Her town hall with Jake Tapper in Jackson, Mississippi this week -- she was outstanding.

I have written -- I've been critical of her. I think she botched the handling of her Native American heritage or not, repeatedly.

But she was really good in this town hall -- policy-heavy. Also, connected. The moment where she talks about her family and her mother saying we will not lose this House, really powerful stuff. If you haven't seen it, I'd urge you to see it.

OK, let's go to the next one. Mayor Pete -- Mayor Pete, A-minus and I'll tell you why. I think Mayor Pete may -- and I always call him Mayor Pete because I'm just -- you know, his last name is just a disaster for me -- Mayor Pete, Mayor Pete.

Because he -- if you're looking for a real dark horse -- a lot of people say hey, Beto O'Rourke, keep an eye on him. He's a dark horse. He's not a dark horse.

BERMAN: No.

CILLIZZA: He's in fourth place. If you're looking for a dark horse, Mayor Pete, I think, might be it.

He's already qualified for the debates -- 65,000 donors. I thought he was really good in his town hall last week. He's a charismatic guy with a story to tell.

[07:50:00] Now, I can -- let me go to the less --

BERMAN: Yes, so that's like the top tier.

HILL: That's the top, right?

BERMAN: That's A -- the candidates earning A's this week.

CILLIZZA: Correct.

BERMAN: O'Rourke, Warren --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- and Buttigieg. And then there are --

CILLIZZA: Oh, yes. HILL: Oh, look, look, Berman throwing --

BERMAN: I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid.

HILL: -- it down, by the way.

CILLIZZA: He's showing off. He's showing off.

BERMAN: Go now -- you have --

CILLIZZA: OK.

BERMAN: -- for the middle tier?

CILLIZZA: Yes. So look, Joe Biden, a B. And the reason a give him a B is yes, as you just noted, guys, he is number one in our poll. And he's number one in most polling and he's going to be number one.

He's going to get into this race in April. Why a B?

HILL: He is? What?

CILLIZZA: Yes. I mean, come --

HILL: Are you sure?

CILLIZZA: Yes. Come on, people.

HILL: And that's in the list of the worst-kept secrets in announcement land.

CILLIZZA: Yes. It's just -- it's so ridiculous. But, OK, whatever. He's going to be in the race.

The reason I give him a B is this. It's -- I think it's a little dangerous to just kind of everyone knows you're running but you're not running, so people can pick you apart and you're not really in a position to respond because you're not a candidate, number one.

Number two, I'm a little concerned -- and I wrote about this -- I'm a little concerned that Biden's plan is to announce a bunch of major endorsements and maybe pick a V.P. nominee early on to show that it's really a race between him and Trump.

The whole inevitability argument didn't work all that well for Hillary Clinton. I'm not sure that's the argument for the base.

OK, I've got one more for all -- you know, for everybody who does well there's always going to be somebody who does bad. It's only one week -- don't panic.

Kirsten Gillibrand, D. I don't like giving out F's because, you know, let's just say that it didn't sit well in the Cillizza household when an F came home. Just leave it at that.

I think that -- two things for her. Number one, I think she's really struggled to distinguish herself from the field, right? It's not clear what -- what is her message? I guess it's be brave -- that's her new one. She's now in the race, finally.

But I also think she has been a leading voice of the MeToo movement in Congress. She has struggled with some allegations -- some resignations within her staff. Allegations that people made claims of sexual harassment and they weren't acted upon. That really undermines -- to the extent she has had a message, undermines that fundamental message.

So those are my -- those are my grades.

BERMAN: OK.

CILLIZZA: They may change -- just like midweek report.

BERMAN: I love it.

CILLIZZA: -- by the end.

BERMAN: I want to go back if I can to one of the A's -- to Beto O'Rourke.

CILLIZZA: You want to argue about your grade, John. I get it.

BERMAN: I do. I do.

CILLIZZA: I can see that's your kind of guy.

BERMAN: That's called brave grubbing where I come from and I did not do it. That's because we were always graded on a curve and I didn't have to. But --

HILL: Did the raise the curve or lower it?

BERMAN: Go ahead, go ahead. It was a curve.

The Beto O'Rourke thing is fascinating and you gave him an A and that's --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- fascinating as well because there is a split right now --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- between the criticism that you see largely on Twitter and social media --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- that -- where people don't think he's performing at the level they would like to see.

But then there are metrics and the metrics are $6.1 million. The metrics are a whole range of events -- a lot of events that have been well-attended. There seems to be actual genuine human interest and it may --

CILLIZZA: Yes.

BERMAN: -- be one of the lessons we learned from 2016 is you pay attention when people are showing up.

CILLIZZA: Yes. I really think that -- what would you rather have? Some people criticizing you on Twitter or $6.1 million? I mean, it's not complicated.

I know where -- I don't have $6.1 million and I have people criticizing me on Twitter, so I have both -- the worst of both worlds.

BERMAN: Exactly.

CILLIZZA: But I just think, yes, let's look at measurable metrics. The whole well, maybe he's a little gaffe-prone -- he doesn't know a lot of policy -- he's been in the race for seven days, right? He was running for the Texas Senate.

If in two months, John, we're having this same conversation where he keeps screwing things up, he really has elucidated any policy, then that's fair.

BERMAN: Let me --

CILLIZZA: I don't think, right now, it's fair.

BERMAN: We've got to run. Very quickly, she didn't get an A but she did get a picture with a Jedi. Tell me about Kamala Harris.

CILLIZZA: Yes. I mean, look, Harry Enten and I do ratings once a month. We have had Kamala Harris number one for I think the last five months. I still think she's the most likely candidate to win.

Obviously, I don't have an hour segment to rank everyone and rate everyone, but I think she continues to do quite well as a candidate.

You know, look, that's like my childhood dream right there is to be old Luke Skywalker.

BERMAN: Yes, and that's where we divert.

CILLIZZA: So there are benefits that come with running for president.

BERMAN: I'm a Han and Leia guy.

CILLIZZA: I can't say I'm surprised.

BERMAN: You're a Luke Skywalker guy, but I get that.

CILLIZZA: I always paint you as a Darth Vader man.

BERMAN: That, too.

Chris Cillizza, thank you very much for being with us. HILL: I'm learning -- I'm learning so much about the two of you.

CILLIZZA: Yes, it's really enlightening.

BERMAN: Love the midweek grades. We will see who makes the grade next week at this time.

CILLIZZA: Thank you. Thank you, all.

BERMAN: All right, a quick programming note. CNN will host a presidential town hall tonight with former Colorado Gov. John Hickenlooper. Dana Bash hosts live from Atlanta at 10:00 p.m. Eastern on CNN.

HILL: House Democratic leaders say the White House is giving congressional committees nothing -- not a single piece of paper.

Is that a winning strategy for the --

(Audio difficulty -- President Trump)

BERMAN: You get nothing.

HILL: I'll just let that speak.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:58:54] (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mueller is continuing to push forward in the court in parallel. He's wrapping up this investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's possible investigators were monitoring Cohen's transmissions before the raid on his apartment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were tracking his phones calls. If I was Donald Trump, I would be scared.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I was never a fan of John McCain and I never will be.

LT. COL. RALPH PETERS (RET.): John McCain remains a man Trump could never be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This has been the president's approach and it resonates with many people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: All right, good morning and welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Wednesday, March 20th, 8:00 in the East.

Alisyn is off. Erica Hill joins me. I think it's spring today?

HILL: That's why I wore yellow.

BERMAN: See -- I knew something was going on.

HILL: I'm like a daffodil sitting next to you today. Happy spring.

BERMAN: Happy spring -- like a daffodil.

We begin with the White House apparent no cooperation strategy. The chair of the House Oversight Committee says he has not received a single piece of paper from the White House despite dozens of document requests. You get nothing seems to be the White House strategy.

Sources tell CNN that the White House expects to see the Mueller report before Congress, perhaps with a plan to scrub it down.

END