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Giuliani: "Nothing Wrong With Taking Info From Russians"; Beyond The Call Of Duty: San Francisco Police Officer Saves Man From Drug Addiction; Sri Lanka Government Admits To Intel Failure After Deadly Bombings. Aired 7:30-8a ET
Aired April 22, 2019 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:30:00] REP. LOU CORREA (D-CA): -- these violent attacks, but also cyberattacks.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.
CORREA: And that's what we're talking about here in this presidency as well. Cyberattacks, not only on our nation but on our democracy. We have to stop all of these kinds of attacks.
CAMEROTA: Congressman Lou Correa, thank you very much for being on NEW DAY.
CORREA: Thank you very much.
JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: The 2020 Democratic field is expanding again. We have a new candidate, folks, and another about to announce. We've got details, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CAMEROTA: OK, breaking political news. Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts becomes the 19th Democrat to jump into the presidential race. CNN has learned that former vice president, Joe Biden, will also announce his bid this week.
There's something about Harry, so let's get the forecast with CNN senior politics writer and analyst, Harry Enten. Hi, Harry.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICS WRITER AND ANALYST: Boy, there are a lot of candidates. My goodness, gracious.
AVLON: Twenty for 20.
ENTEN: Twenty for 20. We'll get to those 20 in a minute.
But let's welcome in Seth Moulton into the race. Congratulations, Seth. He's polling at zero percent in Iowa and zero percent nationally in an average of polls. But good news, there's nowhere to go but up for him.
[07:35:02] CAMEROTA: That's a great positive --
AVLON: That's the silver lining.
ENTEN: You know, you've got to -- you've got to take the silver linings.
But with Seth into the field and with Joe Biden --
AVLON: Wow.
ENTEN: -- expected to announce this -- look, there is a lot of text on this but there's a lot of text for a reason. That is because we have 20 Democrats running.
And look at this. We've got six former or current U.S. senators, six former U.S. representatives, two governors, mayors, non-office holders, a cabinet official, and one vice president. I should note that the partridge in a pear tree is not included.
AVLON: This is enough, by the way, to field a ball -- we could have a ballgame sometime over the summer.
ENTEN: We could have two ball -- yes, literally, two sides.
AVLON: And you've got room for folks who are injured. I think this could be a --
ENTEN: And a designated hitter.
AVLON: All right.
ENTEN: It's beautiful.
CAMEROTA: All right, where is everybody polling?
AVLON: All right.
CAMEROTA: Let's get serious.
ENTEN: All --
AVLON: But it's stunning because governors are traditionally who are elected president over American history. We've only got two governors running this time out of 20.
ENTEN: Yes, no governors. It's senators, U.S. representatives.
CAMEROTA: Yes, but not recently it hasn't been.
AVLON: Well --
CAMEROTA: In the past two --
AVLON: I mean, since Obama, yes.
CAMEROTA: Yes.
AVLON: So -- ENTEN: Since Obama, but it used to be Bill Clinton, George W. Bush --
AVLON: George W. Bush, yes.
ENTEN: -- Ronald Reagan. But this year, governors -- it's just not a ballgame. Mayors are the new things right now.
AVLON: Mayors are the new governors.
ENTEN: Mayors are the new governors.
CAMEROTA: All right. So show us the national polling.
ENTEN: OK. So let's just take a look at where exactly we are right now -- where we are in the national polling and where do things stand.
Joe Biden is still leading the field at 28 percent; Bernie Sanders at 21; O'Rourke, eight; Harris at eight. Buttigieg way up -- going way up, you know. He was in zero percent if you'd taken this about a month and a half ago. And, Elizabeth Warren rounding out that top six at six percent.
CAMEROTA: But none of that matters. Should we go to early states?
ENTEN: None of that --
CAMEROTA: I mean, let's be honest.
ENTEN: Nothing matters, folks -- nothing matters.
AVLON: That's right. How do you say -- national polls --
CAMEROTA: Yes.
AVLON: -- be gone.
ENTEN: But look, we get pretty much the same picture if we go to the early states.
AVLON: All right.
ENTEN: If you look at the Iowa caucuses and New Hampshire, we do see Biden fill up 27 percent of that Monmouth poll earlier this month in Iowa, 23 percent in New Hampshire. And the same general ordering, except Pete Buttigieg perhaps getting a little higher in these earlier states.
AVLON: Yes.
ENTEN: And I think that's an indication that these voters are more closely attuned to the race at this time, so they see his momentum jumping.
AVLON: And, Beto's notably not in that top tier in the early states.
ENTEN: Yes, he would be at number six but we only have room for five people here. So he is at number six. He's certainly fallen off. I think Buttigieg has taken some of his momentum.
AVLON: I was told there's be Betomentum.
ENTEN: There is no Betomentum -- not right now. Betomentum has gone the way of -- I don't know, the Hydrox cookie, although you can still get them in some places.
CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh.
ENTEN: Do you know the Hydrox cookie?
AVLON: That's a metaphor nobody knows.
CAMEROTA: I hope you're not going to tell us.
ENTEN: That's a Jewish -- it's a Passover thing, folks. It's a Jewish thing.
AVLON: All right.
ENTEN: Hydrox cookie -- that's what he always had in Hebrew school.
Now, I think this is another thing that we need to point out -- and sort of as Biden gets into the race, what are the breakdowns that we're generally looking at. We're looking at a huge age breakdown, right, where Biden is actually --
AVLON: Wow.
ENTEN: -- in second place in a national poll from Quinnipiac, and second place among those 18 to 49-year-olds, but way out ahead of those voters 50 and older. And they do make up the majority of voters in a Democratic primary and I think that's something to keep in mind.
AVLON: Well, it actually is that Biden and Bernie, both in their 70s, doing better among younger voters than people like 37-year-old Pete Buttigieg or Beto and Kamala, Gen Xers.
ENTEN: It could be the case right now.
AVLON: Yes.
ENTEN: People aren't necessarily voting for the candidate who matches their age demographic.
One other note that I'll make -- look at this. We also have a huge ideological breakdown with Biden doing very poorly among those very liberals. In fact, in third place here in New Hampshire.
But among the moderate to conservatives in New Hampshire, he's well out ahead. And nationally, they do -
AVLON: Right.
ENTEN: -- make up the majority of the voters.
AVLON: Fascinating.
CAMEROTA: Oh, so nationally, Democrats are -- identify mostly as moderate or conservative.
ENTEN: A slight majority do -- 51-52 percent -- but it's very, very close.
CAMEROTA: All right, listen, as people know, you are a frustrated meteorologist.
AVLON: I don't think enough people know that.
CAMEROTA: I know. I try to tell people this.
ENTEN: I went to weather camp. I went to weather camp.
CAMEROTA: He went to weather camp, OK?
AVLON: That's not a thing normally, by the way --
CAMEROTA: But he's proud of it.
AVLON: -- but, OK.
ENTEN: I am very -- I'm proud of everything that is -- you've got to have faith.
AVLON: So, exercise that muscle.
CAMEROTA: Exercise -- here we go. What have you got for us?
ENTEN: Well, I think this is something that we should point out. Look, we always say April showers bring May flowers but, in fact, in only one percent of the country, 12th -- it's the 12th, obviously -- there are only 12 months -- April is the wettest in percentage of the country. So, in fact, in the least amount of the country it's the wettest -- it's the wettest month of the year.
AVLON: You're blowing my mind --
ENTEN: Could you -- can you believe that?
AVLON: -- seriously. No.
ENTEN: You're learning weather, folks. You're learning weather. Isn't that nice?
AVLON: June?
ENTEN: June is number one. A lot of thunderstorms in June.
CAMEROTA: Wow.
ENTEN: You know -- you know that. You go out, you to a ballgame, and then all of a sudden, rain delay.
CAMEROTA: Multi-talented Harry Enten.
ENTEN: It's the forecast all in one place.
CAMEROTA: Thank you -- yes, it is. Thank you very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
AVLON: Thanks, Harry.
CAMEROTA: All right, we have a big night ahead on CNN
AVLON: We do.
CAMEROTA: Five Democratic presidential candidates in back-to-back town halls in New Hampshire. It begins at 7:00 p.m., Harry. Set your alarm clock.
ENTEN: I have it set.
AVLON: Don't forget.
CAMEROTA: OK, 7:00 p.m., Sen. Amy Klobuchar followed by Sen. Elizabeth Warren. Then what?
AVLON: Then we seem to have a one Bernie Sanders. And then, if my eyesight would help me --
CAMEROTA: Senator Kamala Harris.
AVLON: -- Kamala Harris and Pete Buttigieg. So this is a nice little wrap-up. The town hall palooza begins -- commences tonight.
CAMEROTA: Perfect.
AVLON: Say enough.
CAMEROTA: We'll be tuning in. All right.
[07:40:00] Meanwhile, President Trump's lawyers -- lawyer says there's nothing wrong with taking information from Russians. Does the Intel Community agree? We ask them, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AVLON: Rudy Giuliani is defending what special counsel Robert Mueller described as the Trump campaign's expectation to benefit from Russia's interference in the 2016 election. Let's take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: Any candidate in the whole world in America would take information -- negative --
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, CNN "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER AND "STATE OF THE UNION": From a foreign source? From a hostile foreign source? GIULIANI: Who says it's even illegal? There's nothing -- there's nothing wrong with taking information from Russians.
TAPPER: There's nothing wrong with taking information?
GIULIANI: It depends on where it came from.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AVLON: Joining me now to discuss that and more, Philip Mudd, former CIA counterterrorism official and CNN counterterrorism analyst. And, Sam Vinograd, former senior adviser to the national security under -- counsel -- under President Obama and CNN national security analyst. Great to have both of you here.
Phil, I can't wait to hear your take on Rudy Giuliani's comments from a counterintelligence perspective.
PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST, FORMER CIA COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL, FORMER FBI SENIOR INTELLIGENCE ADVISER: I wish I had signed up with the Russian intelligence service and not the CIA because it would be fun to work in the Disneyworld of the United States.
Let me give you an interpretation of what he said. You go into 2020, based on what Giuliana said, the Russians get to pick a candidate they like, Republican or Democrat.
The security service steals a bunch of stuff about the adversary. Financial information, for example -- maybe information about an extramarital affair a few years ago.
[07:45:01] Creates a front company that looks good -- maybe a lawyer. Inserts that into the campaign by telling a Democrat or a Republican here's a bunch of information that we got legitimately. You can use it however you want.
Why would you want to encourage a foreign security service in the playground of America to steal a bunch of stuff, pretend like it's legitimate, and influence an American election? Why would you want to do that?
And last thing, when Rudy says it depends on where it comes from -- so we're going to ask the DNC, the Democratic National Committee, and the RNC to conduct counterintelligence operations to determine whether the information they receive is legitimate or not? I can't wait to see that.
AVLON: All right.
SAMANTHA VINOGRAD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER UNDER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: John, can I just jump in here at one point.
AVLON: Sure, go.
VINOGRAD: President Trump is -- and his team are on the double standard diet here.
Let's not forget in September 2018 when the president had a cow because the Chinese paid for content in the "Des Moines Register" that he deemed was unflattering to him. The president talked about Chinese foreign election interference -- how wrong it was. Again, based upon that sponsored content in a U.S. newspaper.
At that point, we didn't hear Rudy Giuliani saying there's nothing wrong with this and President Trump saying that this is completely fine. Instead, the president and his team called a foul when there is foreign interference that's not supportive to what they want to accomplish. And there's a massive double standard here that we need to call out.
AVLON: So a massive double standard.
Phil, let me just go back to you because you sort of raise the specter that now the U.S. is open for business because the president's --
MUDD: Yes.
AVLON: -- lawyer did that.
But what is the precedent you can call upon to say that no, Rudy is wrong because as Jeff Toobin just pointed out -- look, the statutes are largely around donations and in-kind contributions. It's unclear whether information falls under that.
I will mention in putting on my history nerd hat that George Washington had something to say about this early on where he talked about how history and experience forbid us -- prove that "foreign influence is one of the most baneful foes of Republican government."
Now, some folks say yes, you've got to go pretty far back. It seems pretty common sense to me.
What's your understanding of the law from a counterintel perspective?
MUDD: You look at the law and I'd say look, there's a -- as people have talked about in the past couple of days, there's a law against acquiring something of value from a foreign -- from a foreign source.
But I think this is why the Congress should stop talking about how to reinvestigate what Mueller did -- how to -- how to run impeachment hearings, and ask questions about looking forward. We've had general conversations John about what the Congress should do to look forward.
How about having hearings saying how do we close the gap on the law to ensure that nobody even thinks about what Don, Jr. did accepting a meeting --
AVLON: You're making --
MUDD: -- because you think a foreign individual is going to come in with something of value about your rival candidate. We shouldn't do that. I don't care what the law says, how about ethics? AVLON: So, ethics and law, but you raise a really important point because the Mueller report actually had a lot of buried leads in it -- things that raise a lot of questions that still need to be answered. And I want to tick-tock a number of them through with you, Sam Vinograd.
WikiLeaks -- this was a big issue during the campaign. The president said he didn't know anything about it. The Mueller report suggests otherwise -- WikiLeaks.
VINOGRAD: Well, on WikiLeaks, when we talk about WikiLeaks throughout the campaign I think we really need to reinsert Russia ahead of WikiLeaks. WikiLeaks, as we know, is a Russian information laundromat throughout the campaign.
And throughout the summer of 2016, it became very public that Russia had hacked this information. And when WikiLeaks contacted the campaign, unless they were wearing blindfolds and earmuffs, they had to know that Russia, in some way, was working with WikiLeaks.
And instead of stopping to ask why WikiLeaks was contacting the campaign -- what their agenda was -- the campaign tried to benefit from it. They developed a press strategy around potential dumps --
AVLON: Yes.
VINOGRAD: -- communication strategy, messaging points, et cetera.
And, John, that really indicates that they assigned value to what WikiLeaks was going to give them. And that gets back to this question of whether it was, in fact, a campaign finance violation.
And let's remember why foreign contact and contact from WikiLeaks and Russia is so problematic from a counterintelligence standpoint. The Russians and WikiLeaks were using the campaign as tools to advance their own agenda. This was not about doing something that was good for U.S. democracy, it was about doing something that was good for these individual entities.
AVLON: No, it wasn't anything about U.S. democracy in a positive way.
Phil Mudd, as an intelligence analyst, what does it say to you that Cambridge Analytica, the subject of a lot of conversation over the course of the campaign, is not mentioned once in the Mueller report -- at least the positions that were not redacted? What does that tell you?
MUDD: I think there's a question about what we were just talking about, John. What's illegitimate and what's illegal.
Cambridge Analytica violates the regulations of Facebook by acquiring massive amounts of data and using it inappropriately. It's not clear to me whether there's a law against that or how the law applies to that.
Again, a question for the Congress. Instead of looking backward, how do you prevent data providers like Facebook in the United States from providing information to a foreign entity that will illegally harvest it and maybe insert it into a U.S. presidential campaign?
[07:50:01] That stuff is really complicated for the Congress, I think, but that's where I'd focus if I were them -- stuff like Cambridge Analytica.
AVLON: Much more here. Things about hacking into Florida elections databases. A lot many more buried leads to dig into.
Sam, Phil, thank you so much, as always.
CAMEROTA: All right, John.
The U.S. economy gets its first big report card of the year this week. The number that is getting the most attention, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
AVLON: It's time for "CNN Business Now." The U.S. economy is going to get its first report card of the year this week.
CNN business correspondent Alison Kosik joins us now with more. Alison, what you got?
ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.
This is a report that I would be looking forward to seeing. Its first-quarter GDP, which actually shows how much the economy grew in the first three months of the year -- it's coming out Friday.
[07:55:01] And investors, they're going to be watching this one closely as well after worrying about a possible U.S. economic slowdown -- how that weighed on sentiment at the beginning of the year.
The Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta is estimating 2.8 percent growth in the first quarter. Analysts polled by market research group Refinitiv forecast an average of 1.9 percent.
Economic growth slowed slightly at the end of last year but not nearly as much as some economists had feared. GDP grew at 2.6 percent in the fourth quarter and although that's slower than the previous three months, it's faster than the same period in 2017.
A weaker than expected report could wind up driving Wall Street and other assets lower.
President Trump made big promises of three, four, and even five percent growth but many economists think economic growth may have peaked for now. The sugar high from corporate tax cuts is fading and global growth is slowing. First quarter growth tends to be weaker because of some seasonal factors that usually happen.
This year, the data will also reflect the government shutdown, so I am really going to be watching this one, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, Al. Thank you very much --
KOSIK: Gotcha.
CAMEROTA: -- for that preview.
All right. A San Francisco police officer rescuing a man from a crippling drug addiction and going beyond the call of duty to save him.
Stephanie Elam has our story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM WOLF, RECOVERING FROM DRUG ADDICTION: I was really at my worst. I was smoking heroin every day.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Tom Wolf first encountered San Francisco police officer Rob Gilson his only concern was getting high.
ROB GILSON, POLICE OFFICER, SAN FRANCISCO POLICE DEPARTMENT: It was obvious that Tom had a drug addiction.
ELAM (voice-over): Wolf was listed as a missing person but like so many addicts, he refused help. Officer Gilson called Wolf's wife to let her know he was alive.
GILSON: Hi.
ELAM (voice-over): He promised to keep an eye on him.
GILSON: I just felt bad for her. You have this poor lady on the other end of the phone crying and telling me how much she misses her husband.
ELAM (voice-over): But, Wolf admits he was a slave to his addiction, putting it above his family, his home, and his government job.
WOLF: I'm the primary case manager for the Family Violence Initiative. I flipped from being a public servant to a homeless drug addict in the Tenderloin in the span of four years.
ELAM (voice-over): Soon after this video was shot, Wolf had foot surgery.
WOLF: They gave me 10-milligram Oxycodone pills and immediately -- immediately after I took them I felt euphoria.
ELAM (voice-over): When those ran out, he headed to San Francisco's Tenderloin, just around the corner from the police station where Gilson works.
GILSON: You just laying down taking a nap?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
GILSON: All right.
ELAM (on camera): How bad is the opioid problem -- the overall drug problem in that part of San Francisco?
GILSON: It is out of control.
ELAM (voice-over): Gilson arrested Wolf four times but he never cuffed him without a conversation.
WOLF: He came up to me and he said look -- look at you. You're skinny, you're dirty, your clothes are dirty.
He goes, I don't know what you're going through. I don't know if it's a midlife crisis but whatever it is, go get some help and get back to your family.
ELAM (voice-over): In June 2018, SFPD posted Wolf's mugshot on Twitter.
WOLF: It said this last time he was arrested with a bag of drugs at his feet.
ELAM (voice-over): Four days later, he was arrested again. This time, he went to jail for nearly three months, forcing him to get clean.
WOLF: I knew I needed help and I knew I couldn't go home.
ELAM (voice-over): He enrolled in the 6-month rehab program at The Salvation Army. Later, Wolf wrote his own message under his mugshot on Twitter --
WOLF: Saying, you know, "I'm now in recovery. I've got almost eight months clean and sober."
ELAM (voice-over): -- thanking The Salvation Army and Officer Gilson, who finally met Wolf's wife.
GILSON: Oh, we spoke. How are you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, nice to meet you.
GILSON: Nice to meet you.
WOLF: If he hadn't been on me so much to get me out of there, I might not be talking to you today. I might be in the grave.
ELAM (on camera): How does that make you feel knowing that he sees you as his lifesaver?
GILSON: I was able to kind of just give Tom a little bit of a push in the right direction, I think. Tom's the one that's done all the hard work.
ELAM (voice-over): Stephanie Elam, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CAMEROTA: OK, that's a beautiful story. I mean, sometimes police intervention and a jail sentence are the best things that can happen sometimes to addicts.
AVLON: And just a reminder. Surgery, something with a government job, high-level, can immediately so quickly descend to addiction, but intervention helped.
CAMEROTA: That is remarkable.
All right, we're following a lot of breaking news on the deadly bombings in Sri Lanka, so let's get right to it.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
CAMEROTA: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to your NEW DAY. It is Monday, April 22nd, 8:00 now in the East.
John Berman is off. John Avlon joins me. Great to have you. A busy news day.
AVLON: Absolutely.
CAMEROTA: We begin with breaking news because Sri Lanka's government says they believe it's an international terrorist network that is likely behind the coordinated Easter Sunday bombings there.
There was another blast moments ago. It was captured on video near one of the churches that was attacked, but this one was a controlled explosion by police because they worried that that was a suspicious vehicle.
But the threat of more violence does have the country on edge at this hour.
AVLON: The death toll soaring. Nearly 300 people were killed and more than 500 hurt. Sunday's blast targeted Christians worshipping at Catholic churches and tourists at luxury hotels on Easter Sunday. Dozens of foreign nationals are among the dead.
Now, government officials are admitting they knew about warnings before the attack.
END
