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First Lady Melania Trump Expresses Sympathy for Coronavirus Victims at RNC; CDC: People Without Virus Symptoms May Not Need Testing; Two Dead, One Injured in Clash Between Protesters And Armed Vigilantes in Kenosha, Wisconsin. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired August 26, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

ANTHONY SCARAMUCCI, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: And when you go to answer that proverbial question that Reagan brought up in 1980, are we better off than we were four years ago?

Very few people are better off. Maybe some corporate fat-cats are better off, but by and large, the rank-and-file group of Americans are not, and what they typically do is they want to switch jockeys in a situation like this. And the vice president, to your point about what the president is doing this week, he made a very able and a very stable case for a return to normalcy which I think most Americans want.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I want to play one more bit from Melania Trump, the first lady last night. We -- you know, she talked about -- she was really the only person at the convention to express sympathy for the 180,000 nearly people who have died from coronavirus. But then she talked about what Americans want in a president. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELANIA TRUMP, FIRST LADY: We all know Donald Trump makes no secret about how he feels about things. Total honesty is what we as citizens deserve from our president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Total honesty, Anthony Scaramucci, is that what people get from Donald Trump?

SCARAMUCCI: John, look, I don't like talking about the relationships that people have with each other. I obviously don't like it when people talk about my relationship with my wife, so I sort of don't want to go there other than to say, look at the speech, look at the transcript of the speech and take a highlighter, and you can see that there's some stinging things in that speech related to the president.

He's told 22,000 lies as documented by "The Washington Post", and so, you know, she knows -- and I will applaud her for one thing. She did, at least, express empathy for what is going on in the country and the strife and frankly, the -- you know, 178,000 deaths.

She at least reached out to those families. The president is not capable of doing that. And so if this was an attempt to soften his image, it spoke very well of the first lady, but it's going to do nothing to soften his image because he'll just return to his normal personality track, which is sort of this abusive, intimidating figure that can't manage things, can't manage things in a crisis, but he'll take to Twitter like a keyboard coward, a keyboard warrior coward and go after his fellow citizens. So to me, yes, it was a good speech. I applaud her for it. I think we're -- the venue of the speech will historically be a stain on the country.

It's not just that administration, because people will scratch their heads 50 years from now, historians will say, OK, what were you guys doing to allow that? How was there not more of a protest and what's going on in the social studies classes in America where you learn about this great system that has led to so much peace and prosperity, and you're allowing somebody to use your words, John, as to obliterate people --

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Anthony Scaramucci --

SCARAMUCCI: Obliterate the system --

CAMEROTA: Great to have you --

SCARAMUCCI: Thank you --

CAMEROTA: And your perspective, thanks for being here. Well, the CDC just changed its guidance on coronavirus in a big and confusing way. They are no longer telling people to get tested even if they've been in contact with someone who tests positive. Why? Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:35:00]

CAMEROTA: There are major questions this morning about changes the CDC made late yesterday to their coronavirus testing guidelines. The agency now says people exposed to coronavirus may not need to be tested. Joining us now with the facts is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. What?! Sanjay, this flies in the face of everything we've been talking about for months. Why -- if John Berman gets coronavirus, why wouldn't I need to be tested?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you would. I mean, I know that this is -- this is confusing and it's unfortunate and, you know, we've learned these lessons and then we are going backwards, I think, in terms of things. There's a couple of things here, first of all, I realize this is confusing.

One of the things we learned about this virus, and this is very crucial, we can put these numbers up, is that there can be asymptomatic spread. I think most people who are watching sort of know this by now. That first, we've learned that there are a lot of people who are out there who are asymptomatic, 40 percent of infections are asymptomatic, connect the dots here.

A lot of those people can still carry virus in their nose, in their mouths, and 50 percent of transmission occurs before symptoms. Pre- symptomatically or in people who don't have symptoms and never developed symptoms. So there's the truth.

And that's from the CDC itself by the way. So a significant, maybe half, even more than half of the pandemic spread in this country is being caused by people who don't know they have the virus. And now we're hearing from the CDC that people who have had these significant exposures and may not have symptoms no longer need to be tested.

The basic truth of how we control this pandemic is to test and trace, then isolate and quarantine. If you can't test, then you can't actually do the basic public health measures that are needed to control this virus. Look, I mean, I've been reporting on testing for a long time.

We have been behind on testing, frankly, we have crewed up testing, we're still behind on testing every step of the way. And sadly, I think this is another way to sort of justify our low-testing numbers, instead of going in the right direction, saying, we could actually gain control of this, we're pulling back at exactly the wrong time.

BERMAN: I have to say, Sanjay, what you describe is bad. What's even worse is another possibility. This will mean fewer tests and this will mean that we find fewer cases, which is exactly what the president has actually, explicitly called for.

GUPTA: Right, I mean, that's the thing! I mean, you've heard from this president saying, hey, look, if we don't test as much, the problem will sort of go away. That's like saying, if we don't screen for cancer as much, then people won't get cancer. It's obviously not the case.

[07:40:00]

And I think, you know, a critical point here is that this virus is different than other viruses. Most respiratory viruses, you are going -- vast majority of spread is going to occur after you're symptomatic. You know, you're coughing and sneezing and that's when you're spreading the virus. What we learned -- and I'm going back to mid- February now, what we learned at that point was that asymptomatic spread could occur. And that was sort of one of these things.

I remember talking to Dr. Robert Redfield about that at the time, and it was like, wow, this is a very interesting development about this virus that we need to pay attention to, we need to lean into and figure this out. And now, seven months later, we're actually ignoring the knowledge that we gained, you know, several months ago and going backwards.

CAMEROTA: But why, Sanjay?

GUPTA: This virus will continue to spread --

CAMEROTA: But why? I don't get it. Why is he doing it? --

GUPTA: I don't know. I don't know -- well, I don't know. But I think that part of it is exactly what John said. You know, if we don't test as much, then we won't -- the problem will seem like it goes away. It's not going to go away because the numbers will continue to get worse.

And let me just say this as well is that there's people who develop mild symptoms, who may consider themselves to have not even really had symptoms, who could still have long-term problems with this virus, right? We're learning that more and more. We -- these long haulers as they're called often times are people who had mild symptoms initially if any symptoms at all, and then they develop more symptoms as time goes on.

We spent some time talking to doctors as the long-hauler clinic at Mount Sinai about this. Here's the point. You don't want this virus. You want to do everything you can to control it, and a big part of that is testing. Alisyn, I don't know, I don't know the answer to your question. I think part of it is that we have never gotten ahead on testing and now we're trying to justify our testing inadequacies in this country.

BERMAN: People who could be spreaders of this will not be identified. That is going to be the consequence of this inexplicable new policy. Sanjay, on a much different note, gyms are closed still in many places. It's hard to stay fit. People are talking about the COVID-15. How does one stay healthy during this pandemic?

GUPTA: Yes, well, it's challenging. You know, I did a whole audible book just about this topic, especially with regard to kids. You know, I think that one of the things that came out of this, we've talked a lot to psychologists and people who are focusing on physical and psychological fitness.

And the idea that when this first started, it felt like it was going to be, you know, a few weeks or a few months, you could let your routine sort of go. And I think as time has gone on, we've realized this is obviously lasting a lot longer than we realized, than we thought it would. It's not going to be forever, but this idea that we still need to develop routines during this time is, I think, important.

You know, if you can -- however you get your fitness, I think, is important, but also to not lapse into bad habits. We saw alcohol sales, for example, in stores went up 54 percent in March, 500 percent increase in sales online in April. A lot of that was because people could no longer go to stores. But the point is that, you know, this is one of those times where you can't look at it as sort of a short period of time where you can let all your routines go.

You've got to kind of build new routines into the sort of COVID era and psychologically as well. I mean, I think there are two types of people. Come -- some people come out of this sort of crushed by the events of what's happening right now and some people come out of this stronger and more resilient. And why is that? Why do some people develop the strength and the resilience while

others are crushed? A lot of it has to do with how you interpret this experience. If you can find the support that you need, surround yourself with people who are giving you that support, I think it's important. Try not to isolate, even though we say social or physical distancing, that does not mean social isolation.

CAMEROTA: Right --

GUPTA: I know it's easier said than done, but these are things that I think are important as the next several weeks, months go on.

BERMAN: Sanjay, as always, thank you very much. Sage advice --

GUPTA: Right --

BERMAN: To be sure. All right --

GUPTA: You got it --

BERMAN: There is breaking news and a dangerous development out of Kenosha in Wisconsin. The sheriff there warns of the presence of armed vigilantes, militia on the streets who may be involved in the death of two people overnight. What's the president got to say about this? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:45:00]

BERMAN: All right, breaking overnight, two people are dead in Kenosha, Wisconsin. There's a manhunt underway. The sheriff there is warning of the presence of armed vigilantes, he used the word militia to describe some of the people who may have been involved in the shootings there, and this of course follows the police shooting of Jacob Blake in that city.

Joining us now, CNN political analyst Maggie Haberman, she's a White House correspondent for "The New York Times". And Maggie, obviously, the president has been leaning in to the message of law and order for this convention even before the convention.

The president and people at the convention are talking about chaos in the streets. This is a twist though potentially in Wisconsin because some of the shootings this morning and the deaths may be connected to people in a way with the same law and order message, taking law and order into their own hands.

[07:50:00]

I wonder how this complicates what the president will say this morning if anything.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: John, it's a great -- it's a great question, and I don't think it's going to complicate it at all, I think you're going to continue to hear him say the same thing as if there's not this wrinkle, because as you know as well as I do, nuance is not particularly how he handles these moments.

And so I don't think that he's going to look to say on Twitter where we're going to hear from him for the most part, about this today. You know, this is a -- this is a different group of people who are taking advantage and whose message we normally support. I think we're just going to use it as another attempt to tar the protesters with a broad brush and to suggest that this is why more National Guard need to be brought into the state.

CAMEROTA: Right, I mean, he -- why -- I hear you, Maggie, history suggests he will exploit this chaos.

HABERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Now, another curious thing, he's the president right now. I mean, that -- it's been pointed out, is often the message of an insurgent. This is happening on his watch as it has been --

HABERMAN: That's right --

CAMEROTA: For months now. Does that ever get somehow reflected in his message?

HABERMAN: It surely gets reflected in his message, Alisyn, but it does complicate his message, and it makes it much harder for him to run this campaign he's been trying to run where he's essentially both an outsider and the president of the United States.

He keeps talking about how bad America will be under Joe Biden and he points to these cities. And he says, well, you know, these are led by Democrats and therefore that's the problem. But to your point, he's the president. And so there is at a certain point, it's very hard to continue pointing the finger at somebody else when you are the person in charge.

BERMAN: And again, there's a lot we don't know about what happened overnight --

HABERMAN: You're right, that's right --

BERMAN: In Kenosha, and we just don't know who exactly was involved, who was shot and who might --

HABERMAN: That's right --

BERMAN: Be captured in this manhunt. However, I do want to say there's a through line here that you could potentially draw on the McCloskeys who are lifted up and glorified on the first night of the Republican Convention.

This is this couple in St. Louis that were brandishing their weapons in the face of protests in that city. And again, they were held up as an example at the Republican Convention of virtue, and now here we are with possibly armed people who went further than the McCloskeys.

HABERMAN: I'm reluctant, John, to draw a connection to the McCloskeys with what we're seeing with this because we don't know what happened. But I do think it is safe to say is that, this is a president who's repeatedly urged people to protect themselves.

And when he delivers that message, he is typically talking to his white rural base or his -- you know, the supporters or suburbanites who he had had, who he has lost and who he's trying to get back. But you know, again, I don't think that we can draw a direct line here if there's any line, except to say that he has repeatedly said to what he calls Second Amendment people that they should defend themselves.

CAMEROTA: Maggie, let's talk about the line that's been erased between political campaigning and governing, using the White House as the back drop for these events yesterday as we will see tonight and the next night.

HABERMAN: Right --

CAMEROTA: And you know, there's also some questions about if this is a violation of the Hatch Act. It isn't for President Trump, we understand. But unless he built the stage on the South Lawn himself and unless he booked these guests --

HABERMAN: Right --

CAMEROTA: All the guests, and talked to them about their speeches himself, then isn't this problematic for his advisors and people around him?

HABERMAN: So, Alisyn, he's the one who has to enforce the Hatch Act, so I don't know how problematic it is in terms of bill or consequences, but certainly, it does leave a stain. And I just want to go further, it's not just the stage, it's not just the use of the colonnade as a prop, it's -- the president used a naturalization ceremony for immigrants as a prop last night.

He used a presidential pardon as a prop last night. This is pretty unheard of. If you take the night collectively, it is a -- it is a huge misuse of government resources and actions for a political campaign. I do not expect it to faze the president at all, but I really think what we saw last night as used as we have gotten to saying things like the president is shattering norms, last night was something different.

CAMEROTA: Maggie Haberman, thank you very much, great to see you.

HABERMAN: Thanks.

CAMEROTA: All right, we have some breaking news right now. Hurricane Laura has just intensified, it is now a powerful category 3 storm. It has strengthened -- further strengthening, we should say, is expected, so Chad Myers has the latest forecast and we are talking to the director of the National Hurricane Center about where it's headed next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:00]

CAMEROTA: Good morning and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, this is NEW DAY, and we do begin with breaking news because there were gunshots on the streets of Kenosha, Wisconsin, overnight, two people are dead, one is injured after someone apparently opened fire on protesters and possibly agitators. It was a chaotic scene and it appeared to include armed vigilantes who were captured in various videos posted to social media like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you shot him!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, you shot him, yes.

(GUNFIRE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, he shot that guy in the stomach. Oh, shit, people are getting shot all around us. People are just getting shot everywhere, you guys.

(SCREAMING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take this, take this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)