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Pence, Harris Clash Over COVID-19 as Pandemic Worsens; CNN Poll: 59% Harris Won Debate, 38% Say Pence Won. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired October 08, 2020 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA), VICE-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country.

[06:00:08]

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The American people have demonstrated over the last eight months that, when given the facts, they're willing to put the health of their families and their neighbors and people they don't even know first.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He did everything that conservatives wanted and made people feel really comfortable.

HARRIS: You respect the American people when you tell them the truth.

PENCE: You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Pence was masterful in normalizing conservative ideas. I think what Kamala Harris had to go out there and do was to hang onto her base, which she did.

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I'd be very surprised to see much movement in the polls here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Thursday, October 8, 6 a.m. here in New York.

And the coronavirus pandemic was one of the focal points of one of the vice-presidential debate between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris. The U.S. saw 50,000 new cases on Wednesday and 915 deaths.

And the debate stage itself captured the visuals of the virus. Plexiglas had to separate the candidates.

Senator Harris called the handling of the pandemic, quote, "the greatest failure of any presidential administration in history." Vice President Pence defended the administration's response by highlighting the push for a vaccine.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also this morning, the president back in the Oval Office, refusing to isolate in the White House residence, despite the fact that he is almost certainly still contagious, shedding the virus wherefore he goes.

Now CNN has new details about the president's desire to return to the campaign trail. Campaign rallies even being discussed.

We'll start with the debate. Let's go right to Salt Lake City, the site of where it all went down. CNN's Jason Carroll is there.

This was a different debate than we saw a week ago, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It was much different, much calmer, but as expected, the coronavirus dominated certain parts of the debate. But there were also other subjects discussed, as well, including the Supreme Court and systemic racism.

The two candidates do not have much in common. One thing they do have in common, their ability to dodge answering questions.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: In Wednesday's debate, Vice President Mike Pence and Senator Kamala Harris were not only separated by 12 feet and Plexiglas for social distancing, but also on the issues. Harris saying the Trump administration forfeited its right to re-election based on their handling of the coronavirus crisis.

HARRIS: The American people have witnessed what is the greatest failure of any presidential administration in the history of our country. They knew, and they covered it up.

CARROLL: Meanwhile, Pence, who leads the White House coronavirus task force, defending their response, despite the massive death toll.

PENCE: I want the American people to know that, from the very first day, President Trump has put the health of America first.

HARRIS: Whatever the vice president is claiming the administration has done, clearly, it hasn't worked. When you're looking at over 210,000 dead bodies in our country, American lives that have been lost. Families that are grieving that loss.

CARROLL: And when it came to a question on the progress of a viable vaccine, Harris said this.

HARRIS: If the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us I -- that we should take it, I'm not taking it.

CARROLL: The vice president also downplaying the Rose Garden event last month that may have started the coronavirus outbreak that infected President Trump and a growing number of White House staffers.

PENCE: It was an outdoor event, which all of our scientists regularly and routinely advise. The difference here is President Trump and I trust the American people to make choices in the best interest of their health.

HARRIS: And while it didn't reach the same level of chaos as the recent presidential debate --

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Can I be honest? It's a very important --

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Try to be honest.

CARROLL: -- there were still some moments of tension on stage.

HARRIS: -- makes less than $400,000 --

PENCE: He said he's going to repeal the Trump tax cuts.

HARRIS: Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking. I'm speaking.

PENCE: The important is you say the truth.

CARROLL: Harris looking straight to camera to tell voters a Trump/Pence ticket is a threat to the Affordable Care Act.

HARRIS: If you have a pre-existing condition -- heart disease, diabetes, breast cancer -- they're coming for you.

CARROLL: The vice president dodging questions on the same subject.

SUSAN PAGE, DEBATE MODERATOR: How would your administration protect Americans with pre-existing conditions have access to affordable insurance if the Affordable Care Act is struck down?

PENCE: Well, thank you, Susan, but let me just say, addressing your very first question, I couldn't be more proud to serve as vice president to a president who stands without apology for the sanctity of human life.

CARROLL: Harris also avoiding answering a question from her opponent about whether a Biden administration would pack the Supreme Court.

[06:05:02]

HARRIS: The American people are voting right now, and it should be their decision about who will serve on this most important body for a lifetime.

PAGE: Thank you, Senator Harris --

PENCE: The people, Susan, are voting right now. They'd like to know if you and Joe Biden are going to pack the Supreme Court if you don't get your way in this nomination.

HARRIS: Let's talk about packing. Come on.

PENCE: You gave a non-answer.

CARROLL: Like Trump, Pence warned he may not accept the election results, while also falsely claiming that mail-in voting would lead to massive fraud. There is no proof of widespread voter fraud in the United States.

PENCE: We have a free and fair election. We know we're going to have confidence in it, and I believe in all my heart the president, Donald Trump, is going to be re-elected for four more years.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL: And given the pandemic, one of the rules of the debate was everyone inside the debate hall was required to wear a mask with the exception of the candidates and the moderator, but as the debate ended, second lady Karen Pence took the stage without wearing her mask. It should be noted that Senator Harris' husband took the stage, and he was wearing a mask -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK, Jason, thank you very much.

Joining us now to talk about our takeaways, we have Angela Rye, former executive director of the Congressional Black Caucus and CEO of Impact Strategies; Scott Jennings, former special assistant to President George W. Bush; and Errol Louis, political anchor at Spectrum News. They are all CNN political commentators, and we are grateful to have all of them at this hour.

So Errol, give us your top-level takeaways from what you saw last night.

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The top-level takeaway for me was that the coronavirus, which is the center of what's dominating all of the news and really all of our lives at this point, was not really given the level of attention I was expecting it to get.

I thought they were going to get into the weeds about the administration's response, about what was done as far as the interplay between the White House and the various states. About Mike Pence's personal role as head of the coronavirus task force.

And just -- we just kind of skipped over it in some ways. The -- the moderator gave them a couple of minutes to talk about it. There were a couple of exchanges of talking points. I was a little surprised by that, because so many other issues flow from that, like the economy, like the hunger problems that are plaguing so many states and so many families.

They touched on it, they got into it, they exchanged talking points, including some long-ago, not quite relevant information about, you know, who shut down the airports and at what point and so forth, but I thought that we'd have had a more fleshed-out conversation.

Beyond that, though, look, I believe that the Pence/Trump [SIC] is -- the Trump/Pence ticket is actually behind and needs to make something change if they don't want to coast into a defeat. And I don't know if last night changed that at all, Alisyn.

BERMAN: Yes. That's why I say to though who say, Oh, it didn't matter, vice presidential debates don't matter, if it doesn't matter, it does matter, because there is a campaign that some -- needs something to change right now. And that does appear to be the Trump/Pence campaign.

Angela Rye, to you. Your major takeaways?

ANGELA RYE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, so my main takeaway was Kamala Harris came across as super poised, ready to not only debate, but also to serve the people.

We recall that during the primary season, Kamala Harris' campaign slogan was "Kamala Harris for the people," as she said, she said so often every time she went into the court.

To me, it was super effective when she talked about the -- were you calm -- she turned to the camera and she said, Were you calm when you had to go look for your last roll of toilet paper or when you had to think about your children not being able to see your parents because they could kill them? Very effective moment.

I wish, again, to Errol's point, that the moderator really would have challenged Mike Pence when he turned to the swine flu response and talked about the ineffectiveness of the Obama administration's response, where under 13,000 people died versus the 211,000, now this morning, almost 212,000 people who have died under the Trump administration's response to COVID.

I also think it was important that they would have been challenged -- Mike Pence shook his head a lot and said, Not true. I wish the moderator would have turned to him and said, Oh, well, what is true, Mr. Vice President?

I think overall --

CAMEROTA: Was that the moderator's responsibility, or was that Kamala Harris' responsibility? I mean, do you feel that she missed --

RYE: I think -- I --

CAMEROTA: -- some opportunities to do that?

RYE: I think that she could have, Alisyn, but I think the moderator also has a responsibility, much to the chagrin of the presidential debate commission, to actually fact check.

So if he's shaking his head and saying, Not true, Oh, what is true, Mr. President [SIC] -- Mr. Vice President. As we know, he had the most talk time anyway. It certainly wouldn't have hurt her.

Also, he missed a really important opportunity to condemn white supremacy. He went into the times where the president has condemned it, but then he didn't go into the times where -- the many times where he did not condemn it, especially last week.

[06:10:09]

I thought Kamala Harris had an effective line there.

To me, all in all, on a lighter note, there were two winners last night. The first winner was Kamala Harris' facial expressions, where we were clear about that. If you have a black mama or a black friend, you know what those facial expressions meant.

And secondly, it was Mike Pence's fly. The fly was there to send one of two messages. It was either from Exodus, where it says, "For if you do not let my people go, behold, I will send swarms of flies on you." Or it was Tupac saying, If you're going to invite me to the debate, I deserve a VIP suite, because it's just me against the world. So there's that.

BERMAN: When you're talking about Mike Pence's fly, just to be completely clear --

RYE: We're clear.

BERMAN: -- at 6:10 in the morning --

CAMEROTA: Oh, no.

BERMAN: -- it's the fly on his head. OK?

CAMEROTA: Oh, no.

RYE: For two minutes and 30 seconds, mind you.

BERMAN: It was a long time. It was a long time. Now, we didn't last long in this show before getting to the fly, but Scott, I want to give you a chance for your top-level take on the debate.

SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, look, I thought Mike Pence had a nice night. The Trump/Pence ticket has not had a lot of good news lately, and so Mike Pence delivered what felt like some relief, I think, to Republicans last night.

You know, I was watching the debate and I was wondering, is this going to be the first of a few debates we see between Kamala Harris and Mike Pence? This was the first time they've debated, but obviously, both have aspirations beyond this particular cycle, and maybe we'll see them on the stage together in the future.

I thought Mike Pence had a nice moment when he was talking about civility, and he was talking about RBG and Scalia and how that, as Americans, we can have arguments and disagreements, and we can come together when those are over. I thought that was a really nice moment.

And then when he was doing coronavirus, I agree with Errol. I was actually expecting a lot more detail on it, because of Pence's hands- on role with the coronavirus. But one thing he did during the coronavirus section that I liked --

and this is something the president has not done very well -- is directly acknowledging the sacrifice of the American people, where he has said, I see you, I hear you, I see what you're doing every day to get through this. I thought that was a nice thing for him to do. And it's -- it was an example among a couple where Pence was able to, I think, rhetorically do something on an issue that Trump just didn't get to in the last debate, or frankly, very much at all.

CAMEROTA: Errol, let's talk about the style of the candidates for a second. I think that many people expected Kamala Harris to be more prosecutorial. We have seen her do that. But there were moments where -- and she certainly addressed every time that Vice President Pence interrupted her, but she did so with a smile and a gentle voice. I think we have an example of it, and then I want to get your take on what their styles were.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: Susan, this is important.

PENCE: Susan, I --

HARRIS: And I want to -- Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking.

PENCE: I have to weigh in.

HARRIS: I'm speaking.

PENCE: Repeal the Trump tax cuts.

HARRIS: Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking.

PENCE: Well --

HARRIS: I'm speaking.

If you don't mind letting me finish, we can then have a conversation, OK?

PENCE: Please.

HARRIS: OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What did you think of that, Errol?

LOUIS: Well, that -- yes, that is the veteran of many, many courtroom battles and of many Senate hearings. This is somebody who knows how to slow down everything, capture the attention, and then, with just perfect timing, sort of make sure everybody is focused on her before she resumes. So she's very good at those kind of forensics.

I will say, I thought she a little bit weaker when it came to talking about the economy. You can tell under the glare of the spotlight when people are talking about something that they're very, very comfortable with and when they're really kind of mentally searching through their talking points and trying to make sure that they've got the mechanics right, and I think she was doing that with the economy. I don't know if she is as -- as prepared to talk about that at great length as she is to do some of the forensics that you just described.

When it comes to sort of pushing back against somebody, which is what she did in that clip and did throughout the night last night, she's extremely good at that and making sure everybody's looking at her, looking at her gestures, making sure even subtle kind of communication of emotion or of facts are going to come through. And then she proceeds. That's how you talk to a jury, and that's how she talked to the audience last night.

BERMAN: They're wrapping us, but I do want both of your takes on this Angela and Scott. First to you, Angela. Because it is something that has been widely discussed over the last few hours, since the end of the debate, how Senator Harris chose to handle that.

CAMEROTA: I guess when they wrap us, they kill the audio.

BERMAN: Yes. This is something maybe the debate commission can take a page out of when they --

CAMEROTA: I'm sorry.

RYE: No, that was my problem! My mic was on mute. I'm back. So it was -- it was a troll moment, I guess, to Errol. I'm speaking.

And I was saying that this is one of those things that a woman everywhere, whether they're sitting in a board room, they're sitting across from their boss, a colleague, they're sitting in a classroom making a point, it is a woman's point everywhere. I'm speaking, and you're going to hear me.

I think that not only did she speak with that gesture, with that smile, but also, with substance. I think she actually did have command of the facts. And this is actually after having to navigate, right, during a primary when she ran against Joe Biden, having to say, Now I'm going to embrace your policy positions and be your No. 2.

[06:15:19]

So it's not only having to navigate the facts of a situation, but also having to navigate the differences between policy positions that are her own versus the now head of the ticket.

CAMEROTA: Scott, what did you think of their different styles, and did Vice President Pence interrupt too much? Did Kamala Harris fend that off well?

JENNINGS: Yes, I thought, obviously, Harris planned to do that several times throughout the debate and she did, of course.

The one time that stood out to me was when they were having their exchange over court packing, and she said -- she used the device, I'm speaking, and then he said, Well, let's hear it, and she said, Well, I'm about to explain it to you. And then she never did. She never came up with a -- so I thought, at some points, the device was used to almost just to sort of move the conversation along or eat the time, because she knew she wasn't going to get to the substance of the matter.

The court packing one was the one that stood out to me. Frankly, I was stunned that they still don't have an answer on that, that Biden doesn't have one, the campaign doesn't have one, and she didn't have one last night. I guess they'll try again next week. But that one -- that one jumped out at me as a place where she could -- you know, as a member of the Judiciary Committee -- by the way, that's her day job in the Senate -- I thought she might have brought something to that tonight. Last night.

CAMEROTA: Guys, it is so helpful to your perspectives on all of this. Thank you very much.

OK. So who do debate watchers think won? The results of CNN's snap poll, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:47]

BERMAN: We promised you the results of the CNN snap poll on who voters who watched think won the debate last night. Kamala Harris, according to the CNN poll. Fifty-nine percent of those who watched said that they thought that she won debate. Thirty-eight percent said Vice President Mike Pence.

Our panel is back with us: Angela Rye, Scott Jennings, and Errol Louis.

Guys, I want to pivot forward, if I can, just a bit. And to each of you, starting with you, Errol, if there's one thing the campaigns can do today to move forward from this moment, what do you think it is?

LOUIS: You know, picking up on something Scott said a little earlier, I thought Pence was at his most effective when he talked about the response to the coronavirus pandemic as something that all of America is doing. Not just the Trump administration, not just a lone man on the balcony sort of, you know, posing and saluting and -- and posturing, but as something that all of us had done together.

If the administration had done that a little earlier, I think they would have been in better shape politically, and it's a message that they probably should carry forward. We really all are fighting this together.

CAMEROTA: OK, Scott, what do you think the Trump/Pence campaign should do today to seize the moment?

JENNINGS: They need to continue to sow doubt among the American people about what Biden and Harris say they'll do today, versus the positions they both took in the primary and versus the positions that Harris took as a senator on things like taxes, the Green New Deal, the trade deal, USMCA they brought -- that was brought up last night.

She's really got a lot of different positions, more liberal positions. Biden is trying to run a moderate campaign. Her record makes that difficult. So I think if I were the Trump campaign, I would really continue to try to sow doubt about whether -- can you believe them when they say they want to be a more moderate ticket, given what we see lurking right there in their record?

BERMAN: Of course, one of the big problems for the Trump/Pence campaign is President Donald Trump. Who knows what he will do today to pull whatever focus they may want to have on that subject, Scott?

Angela, what does the Biden/Harris team do today to move forward?

RYE: I think it is more of the same. I think it was such an effective moment and drew such contrast at the end of the debate when you saw Kamala Harris' husband walk on that stage wearing a mask. This is just a week after Donald Trump made fun of Joe Biden's big old mask. And of course, right in the middle of what is a White House spread of this virus.

So telling people to wear masks, informing people of everything they know in real time. They should be asking as the COVID response task force, because it -- it is truly a place where Vice President Mike Pence, his leadership has failed the American people. So you can say it's a sacrifice for all of us to make together, but it's definitely one where they have literally cost the lives of American people and couldn't even contain the virus at the White House. It is a national security issue. That is where they should lean in.

BERMAN: One that Kamala Harris didn't bring up last night, which was notable. She didn't talk about the White House outbreak really at all.

We have to go, but Scott, Angela brought up, it was perplexing not to see Karen Pence in a face mask. I was puzzled by that, because I just don't know what you get out of that.

JENNINGS: Yes, look, they -- they -- they have been very uneven on this. You know, Trump had a moment, I thought, where he could have pivoted his messaging. He does not want to do that. The campaign probably wishes that the White House would be better on this right now.

My view is, you've just got to be more careful. You have to acknowledge the reality, which is, as Angela said, there is an outbreak at the White House right now. And so my advice would be, model good behavior.

But you're showing -- when you're doing that, you're showing kinship with the American people. We're all wearing our masks. Everybody is doing what we're asked to do. And so you should model that same behavior, as a way to say, we're all in this together.

BERMAN: Weird choice, maybe dangerous choice. All right. Scott, Errol, Angela, thank you all very much. The president is almost certainly still contagious. So why is he back

in the Oval Office? Why did he go back to work around other people? Why are they discussing getting him back on the trail soon? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:29:00]

BERMAN: President Trump breaking his coronavirus isolation, breaking the recommended protocol from public health officials all around the world, and going back to work, around people, in the Oval Office.

In a new video, the president called his diagnosis a blessing from God and the experimental drug cocktail he received, specifically one of them, he called a miracle cure.

CNN's Joe Johns live at the site of the coronavirus outbreak at the White House.

Good morning, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Now, the president is making it pretty clear that he wants to get back out on the campaign trail, but he's stuck here at the White House, recovering from COVID-19. He's trying to put the best gloss on it. He says he's feeling great, but great is not the word that could be used to describe the public level of trust in the administration's pandemic response.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): As the White House struggles to contain a major outbreak within its walls, President Trump returned to the West Wing, despite testing positive less than a week ago. He met with his chief of staff, Mark Meadows, and his social media director, Dan Scavino, in the Oval Office.

MARK MEADOWS, CHIEF OF STAFF: Obviously with the president.