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Rep. James Clyburn (D-SC) is Interviewed about Impeachment and Inauguration; U.S. Job Loses in December; Republicans Consider Voting for Impeachment. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:30:31]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news.

The assistant speaker of the House telling NEW DAY just minutes ago that a vote to impeach President Trump could come by the middle of next week as a result of that deadly coup attempt at the U.S. Capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KATHERINE CLARK (D-MA): If the reports are correct and Mike Pence is not going to uphold his oath of office and remove the president and help protect our democracy, then we will move forward with impeachment to do just that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is House Majority Whip, Democratic Congressman, James Clyburn. He's also the chairman of the Joe Biden Inaugural Committee.

Congressman, thanks so much for being here this morning.

REP. JAMES CLYBURN (D-SC): Thank you very much for having me.

CAMEROTA: Before we get to the plans for impeachment, can you tell us if you or Speaker Pelosi or anyone on your side has had any conversations with Vice President Pence or any cabinet members about the possibility of the 25th Amendment?

CLYBURN: I do not know about the -- any conversations that they've had about the 25th Amendment. I do know that Speaker Pelosi has been in conversation with Vice President Pence after the events unfolded at the Capitol.

CAMEROTA: And what did they talk about?

CLYBURN: But there was not -- well, we were talking about the response, getting back to the country's business. I was in the room with her as we had discussions about what we needed to do. We're not going to allow insurrectionists, wherever they may have been getting their energy from, to just derail this country's pursuit of perfection. That's what we're trying to do. We'll never be a perfect country, but you're always in pursuit of that perfection. And that's what it is when you having a peaceful transfer of power. And these people attempted to derail that.

And so, yes, we were in discussions about what we needed to do to make sure that Congress continues to do its business. And, as you know, the vice president had a special role in that, to preside over the joint session.

So these discussions I am aware of. I'm not aware of any discussions they had about the 25th Amendment.

CAMEROTA: And let's talk about the possibility of impeachment that so many people are talking about this morning. So can you confirm that the House will begin the formal process of this fast-tracked impeachment next week?

CLYBURN: I can confirm that we've had discussions about it. And I would hope that the speaker will move forward if the vice president refuses to do what he is required to do under the Constitution.

Everybody knows that this president is deranged. We know that. He came into office misrepresenting everything around him. And for him to continue to be tolerated by his party like this means that the party has the responsibility of doing something right away. The vice president should convene a meeting of these cabinet members and they should do what is necessary to invoke the 25th Amendment and the vice president should continue to keep this country together. That's what they should do.

CAMEROTA: It sounds like you -- it sounds like you would prefer that route over impeachment.

CLYBURN: It's the quickest way to do it. And it's there. It is the proper way to do it. But this president always liked being distinctive for whatever reason and he can be by being the first president in this country to be impeached twice. So if they don't do it, I do believe that the votes are in the House of Representatives to put forth articles of impeachment. And he'll be the only president to be impeached twice.

CAMEROTA: And -- and --

CLYBURN: He's always looking for things that's never been done before. That's one thing that's never been done before that he can apply to his resume.

CAMEROTA: And do you -- do you -- is it also your understanding, this is what Congresswoman Clark told us last hour, that chairman -- Judiciary Chairman Jerry Nadler will use the tools to begin the fast- track process next week.

CLYBURN: Oh, I think so because, remember, now, there -- more than one member has to propose impeachment. So impeachment won't be new.

[08:35:02]

He would have to fast track it because he's chair of the appropriate committee. But more than one member of Congress has put forth impeachment articles.

CAMEROTA: Do you have any indication that Republicans would join the effort?

CLYBURN: Well, there's one that's already spoken out in support of doing that. And so I suspect there will be a few others.

CAMEROTA: Meaning Ben Sasse?

CLYBURN: That's the big problem here -- I'm sorry?

CAMEROTA: Oh, can -- you're talking about Adam Kinzinger?

CLYBURN: Yes. That is who I'm talking about. But this -- the big problem here is that when we've had these kinds of crises before, it has been bipartisan. It was the Republican leadership that went to Richard Nixon and told him, the gig is up and you've got to get out of here. These people know that president is going to be out of there in 13 or 14 days. We cannot and should not run the risk of what else he might do that's silly to us but means so much to him. I do believe he is a danger, an ever present danger, to the existence of this country and to the democracy that all of us hold dear. They know he's a danger.

CAMEROTA: And -- and -- but do you believe that 12 days gives you enough time for impeachment and removal or is this just -- would this just be a ceremonial message sent?

CLYBURN: You do not need 12 days for the 25th Amendment to be invoked. You can do that in the next 12 hours. But if they don't do it, I do believe that within the next six or seven days we can impeach.

Now impeach will not remove. That's the problem here. Because if you were impeached, that's simply an indictment. It would then have to go to the Senate to be tried. And it would be the Senate that would have to do what's necessary to remove him from office.

So, no, I do not believe 13 or 14 days are enough to run that. But we sure there's enough for the vice president and the cabinet members. For two cabinet members to resign, that says to me they are running away from their responsibility. If they feel that strongly, they would stay there and wait on this meeting so they can carry two of the votes that are necessary to invoke the 25th Amendment. They're running away.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about the inauguration. We've had our law enforcement experts this morning say that there was increased dangerous chatter, violent chatter, online and in some of these, you know, dark web areas before January 6th that suggested that something violent was going to happen. There is similarly that kind of violent chatter now about January 20th.

Is that informing the plans for Joe Biden's inauguration? CLYBURN: I certainly hope so. I do believe that the president is not

going to do it, but each state, I think that Virginia and Maryland and the District of Columbia, since the District of Columbia is in a pretty dicey situation as to who may have the authority to bring the National Guard out. But I think they ought to do the same thing for the 20th of January that they did for Black Lives Matter and did not do to protect the Congress of the United States.

So, yes, we've got the mechanism to do it. People should be put on notice now. Every National Guard person in the country ought to be getting ready for the 20th of January. And what we had the other day, them telling us it takes x number of hours for a guardsman to get ready to be deployed, get them ready now. We know exactly when January 20th is going to be and let's get the Guard ready now. And don't wait on January 20th. Let's activate them, have them in place by January 17th so that they will be in the proper place to protect this country's transition of power. We can do that. We know right now. You don't have to wait on the 20th to activate the guard.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Congressman James Clyburn, thank you very much for your time. We always appreciate talking to you.

CLYBURN: Thank you very much for having me.

CAMEROTA: We have some breaking news.

The final jobs report of the Trump presidency has just been released. We have all the details for you, next.

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[08:43:22]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So even more breaking news. The December jobs report just released. The last one while Donald Trump in office.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans with all the details. And they're not good.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: No, the coronavirus has slammed the brakes on the job market recovery, John. And 140,000 jobs lost in the month. And that is a big miss. Economists had expected you'd still see some jobs creation. But 140,000 jobs lost here.

Pandemic jobs lost all together now with some revisions factored in there, about 9.5 million jobs still lost since this pandemic began. That is a huge number, John, and it's an illustration of just the big work ahead for President-elect Joe Biden and his team.

When you look at the jobs in the Trump administration, this is the last jobs report of his tenure, but he's down more than 3 million jobs from February 2017 to December 2020. Again, the pandemic just wreaked havoc on his legacy in terms of the economy.

The jobless rate steady at 6.7 percent. Although the government, John, goes out of its way to say if you had calculated and classified things in -- as you do in normal times, it would actually be higher than that, 0.6 percent higher, so it would be in the 7 percent range here.

Let me tell you where there were jobs. We lost big jobs in bars and restaurants. Almost half a million there. Retail added some. Again, it was Christmas, the end of the year. Health services up 39,000 and construction, that's a rare bright spot in the economy. A lot of work ahead in this economy, John.

BERMAN: A big task for the Biden administration.

Christine Romans, thanks very much.

The House of Representatives moving fast toward a possible impeachment vote as early as middle of next week.

[08:45:00]

We have the breaking details, next.

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ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: More breaking news. And this is big.

CNN has just learned from Republican sources that some Republican members of Congress say they will consider voting to impeach President Trump. This comes as House Democrats move full steam for a vote as early as next week.

Joining us now, CNN White House correspondent John Harwood and CNN's special correspondent Jamie Gangel.

That reporting comes from you, Jamie. What have you learned?

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: So, for the last 24 hours, I have been hearing from former allies of the president, Republicans who say they want him out of office before the 20th, whether it's the 25th Amendment, whether he resigns or now I am told by two members of Congress, Republicans, that they will consider voting for impeachment. And one said to me that, we don't need a long trial, we experienced it firsthand.

[08:50:06]

So Nancy Pelosi hasn't made the decision to move forward. They haven't seen the articles of impeachment yet. But they will consider voting for it.

Just for some context, John, even though we think it is unlikely in 12 days that Trump would actually be removed from office, and we don't know what Mitch McConnell would do, this would make history if it passes in the House. It would make Trump the first president in history to be impeached twice.

CAMEROTA: Jamie, that is remarkable reporting that you have.

I guess when your life is threatened and you're cowering under a chair in the House or Senate chamber, it clarifies your thinking about what your priorities are.

GANGEL: It certainly does. And, you know, I -- two former Justice Department lawyers I was talking to last night, they've been looking through the pictures on social media. It's pretty easy to find. You see photos of the mob, let's call them, coming in carrying handfuls of those plastic rip handcuff things, dozens of them. You have to wonder what they were planning to use them for.

And one member of Congress said, it looks like they may have been planning to hold people hostage. They are very upset about what happened.

BERMAN: John Harwood, an impeachment vote as early as the middle of next week could happen. That's what the assistant House speaker just told us, Jim Clyburn told Alisyn the same thing moments ago. And now Jamie's reporting that there very well could be Republicans who go along.

I understand this may not remove the president from office before the 20th. I still feel like it's a hugely significant moment and a hugely significant statement in our nation's history.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is, John, and I think that as the gravity of what happened on Wednesday sinks in, everybody needs to start thinking of a different paradigm for impeachment. It's not about -- it's not likely to be about removing him from office ahead of his term. The House can move very quickly to impeach him next week and I believe the votes would be there. And Jamie's reporting buttresses that view. We also heard, of course, Ben Sasse earlier on NEW DAY, that clip of him saying that he would consider voting to convict.

But I think in terms of the -- there are two things to keep in mind. One is, that would be an accountability step for the House that, as Jamie said, first time in American history. But, secondly, whether or not Mitch McConnell somehow fast tracks a Senate trial, Chuck Schumer is going to be the majority leader pretty soon and they -- there is precedent for holding a Senate impeachment trial after the person has left office. And I think where we're headed right now is for the House to impeach, the new Senate, led by Chuck Schumer, having a trial. It is not beyond the pale that you could get enough Republican votes to convict. But even if you don't, I think the -- members of Congress believe that this is a significant enough moment and a grave enough offense that that vote should take place.

One constructive purpose it could serve if, in fact, Trump is convicted, is they could include a provision in the impeachment charges that would bar him from running for office in the future. That is not insignificant considering all this talk about Trump running in 2024. And, by the way, there are a bunch of Republicans who have now come to view Donald Trump as a millstone, who also want to run for president themselves.

CAMEROTA: We just had, as John said, Congressman James Clyburn on, who said it would be a lot easier just to invoke the 25th Amendment. That's sort of what he's pushing for. And that, of course, would be up to Vice President Pence. Our reporting is that he's not inclined to do that.

But it's also our reporting that he's quite upset about -- obviously about what happened with the attack on the Capitol. He was -- his life was in danger. I believe his daughter was with him that day. His family was in jeopardy. And that the president didn't reach out to him. And so I'm not sure if we should yet dismiss the possibility of the 25th Amendment.

Jamie, do you have any thoughts?

GANGEL: As you said, I think it is unlikely. But, that said, you're absolutely right. I'm told by a source familiar with Pence's thinking that, quote, he was shaken by this. That he never imagined that the president would put his life in danger, his family's lives in danger, and that he was on the phone after they were evacuated calling and asking the Pentagon for help, for the National Guard.

[08:55:11]

So I would say I think it is very unlikely that we go the route of the 25th Amendment. But I think Nancy Pelosi was giving it one more shot, the next 48 hours, this weekend to see. And then I think what's most likely is, we will see the Democrats in the House move forward with an article of impeachment.

BERMAN: Jamie Gangel, John Harwood, what a year this last week has been.

Thank you both so much for being with us this morning.

GANGEL: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, John, I can't believe it's been only a week and we've survived.

BERMAN: So far.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Thank you all for being with us during this historic week.

CNN's breaking news coverage continues, next.

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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Good Friday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto. Poppy Harlow is off today.

Even just 12 more days of President Trump is too much, too dangerous for some Democratic and even Republican lawmakers. [09:00:01]

Allies are abandoning the president as pressure grows to impeach him. You heard that right, for a second time in a year.