Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

House Moves Quickly to Impeach Trump if VP Pence Does Not Oust Him; Law Enforcement Across U.S. Braces for More Extremist Violence. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired January 11, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president faces the increasing possibility that he will become the first president in American history to be impeached twice. He's also facing calls for his resignation.

[05:59:09]

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): He has done something so serious that there should be prosecution against him.

SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): My personal view is that the president touched the hot stove on Wednesday and is unlikely to touch it again.

SEN. PAT TOOMEY (R-PA): I think the president did commit impeachable offenses. There's little doubt in my mind about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should certainly expect more violence, and in particular, we should expect violence in and around political entities, individuals, and events.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Monday, January 11, 6 a.m. here in New York.

And it turns out the insurrection on the U.S. Capitol was even worse than we knew. We have new video that shows just how bloodthirsty the mob got.

So this morning, Donald Trump could become the first president in history to be impeached twice. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is also pressuring Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office.

If Pence will not, the House plans to move quickly to impeach Trump this week, but then wait for a Senate trial until after President- elect Biden's first 100 days in office, so Biden and Congress can focus on the pandemic and getting his cabinet confirmed. Again, this morning, we have new video and pictures that capture the

sickening attack on the U.S. Capitol. In this one, on your screen, right here, you can see the mob repeatedly beating a police officer with flagpoles, with clubs, with their fists.

Another officer was nearly crushed in the rush to swarm the building.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Just sickening.

So in a brand-new interview, the head of Capitol Police, Steven Sund, who has now resigned, says he suspects pipe bombs were planted to draw officers away from the Capitol perimeter. As terrorists searched for lawmakers, Sund says he requested help from the National Guard six times both before and during the insurrection.

This morning, law enforcement in Washington and states across the nation bracing for more possible violence leading up to inauguration day. Security officials are monitoring online chatter that call for protests in all 50 states, including a potential secondary attack on the U.S. Capitol and state capital buildings. The date for this, they worry, is January 17.

Let's begin, though, with the push to remove President Trump from office. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty live on Capitol Hill, Sunlen, where it all begins this morning.

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, John. And with only nine days left in the Trump administration, Speaker Pelosi is now doubling down on her efforts to remove President Trump now. She says if Vice President Mike Pence does not invoke the 20th [SIC] -- 25th Amendment, she will make President Trump the only president to be impeached twice.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): Well, sadly, the person who's running the executive branch is a deranged, unhinged, dangerous president of the United States.

SERFATY (voice-over): House Speaker Nancy Pelosi insisting President Trump be removed from office in the final days of his administration.

PELOSI: Only a number of days until we can be protected from him, but he has done something so serious that there should be prosecution against him.

SERFATY: Pelosi will push a resolution today calling on Vice President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment.

In a letter to her Democratic colleagues, Pelosi says, if Pence and the cabinet do not enact the 25th Amendment within 24 hours, the House will move ahead with impeachment. Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer reached out to Pence on this matter.

PELOSI: We were kept on the line for 20 minutes -- it's going to be here in a minute, a minute, a minute. Well, he never did. I was at home, so I was running the dishwasher, putting my clothes in the laundry. We're still waiting for him to return the call.

SERFATY: One source close to the vice president tells CNN that Pence has not ruled out invoking the 25th Amendment, but his team has expressed concern that Trump could take some rash actions, harming the country if the cabinet proceeds.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): We're all guessing, until he tells us what his intentions are. I think that a lot of people at the White House that are in this administration have noticeably noticed a real difference in the president's behavior, even worse than it was.

SERFATY: Three Democratic congressmen have already drafted one article of impeachment, charging Trump with incitement of insurrection.

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): One of the issues that I have right now, whether it's the 25th Amendment or impeachment right now, is further dividing the country and pouring gasoline on a fire.

And I worry about that, because the impeachment articles, if it passes with a simple majority in the House, it needs two-thirds in the Senate. I don't know that there's an appetite for it there.

SERFATY: Congressman Jim Clyburn has floated the idea of waiting to send any articles of impeachment to the Senate until after President- elect Joe Biden completes his first 100 days in office.

REP. JIM CLYBURN (D-SC): Let's give President-elect Biden the hundred days he needs to get his agenda off and running, and maybe we'll send the articles sometime after that.

SERFATY: This as two Republican senators have called on the president to resign.

TOOMEY: I think the president did commit impeachable offenses. There's little doubt in my mind about that. But certainly, he could resign, and that would be a very good outcome.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SERFATY: And at the White House, President Trump has finally ordered the flags there to be flown at half-staff in honor of the two U.S. Capitol Police officers who recently have lost their life. Alisyn, one who was on duty the day of the attack up here on Capitol Hill, and the other who is off-duty -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Sunlen, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

Joining us now, we have CNN political commentator and former Republican congressman, Charlie Dent. Also with us is Anna Palmer, founder of Punch Bowl News.

[06:05:04]

Every bit of video, guys, that we see from the attack gets worse. We see just in more Technicolor how bloodthirsty this crowd was, how they killed this police officer, how they tried to beat others to death. I mean, we knew it was bad on Wednesday.

And -- I mean, look at this. This is the scene of an officer being crushed in a door by the crowd. He's begging for mercy. And so, I mean, it's just all so traumatic, obviously, and sickening.

And so Anna, is -- obviously, the 25th Amendment to remove President Trump would be easier than a second impeachment. Can Congress and Nancy Pelosi pass some sort of resolution to force Vice President Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment?

ANNA PALMER, FOUNDER, PUNCH BOWL NEWS: Well, it certainly would be swifter than impeachment. The Speaker's expected today to try to bring up a bill through unanimous consent, which is basically, you know, that nobody would have any objections.

I think that there is very little chance of that going forward, because there will be objections from Republicans who don't want the 25th Amendment invoked, who still support President Trump. And so this is not a remedy that's likely to work for her, which is why she's having to come up with plan "B," plan "C," and maybe even plan "D," potentially, about what is going to happen over the next nine days.

So they clearly are moving very fast toward impeachment. What we're hearing now, over the weekend, they worked, you know, had a lot of conference calls, trying to figure out the schedule. It changed a bit, but right now, it looks like Wednesday, the House will take up impeachment.

BERMAN: There is no way that Congress can force the vice president to invoke the 25th Amendment. The Constitution gives the vice president the power to do that exclusively. What she's trying to do is put political pressure on him to do it to hold off impeachment.

Charlie, I want to ask you, and I actually don't think this is necessarily the right question, which I'll tell you why after -- after you answer it. But what do Democrats get or what does Congress get by impeaching the president if it won't or can't really remove him from office by January 20?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think what the Democrats are trying to do is impose some -- some consequence to what we all agree was an unconscionable attack on Congress, a moral crime against the republic. So I think they want some level of accountability.

But John, you know, I'd say one other thing, though. Look, I do think what should happen right now is the Republican leadership in Congress, Senate and House, should march down Pennsylvania Avenue to the White House and issue an ultimatum to the president. They should take the vice president with them and demand that he resign for the good of the nation. Now. You know, to save us from the 25th Amendment or this impeachment process.

Hey, maybe it goes nowhere, but at least they tried. Issue the ultimatum. This is the intervention that should have happened a long time ago, but that's where I would go. CAMEROTA: That's really interesting, Charlie. I mean, that's just

really interesting. Obviously, that would be stunning. The optics of that would be incredible.

And Anna, it sounds like at this point, I mean, from the reporting, Mike Pence might even go along with that.

PALMER: It's unclear where -- I think there's a lot of speculation about where Mike Pence's head is at. Clearly, there's a lot of frustration with the president and the fact that he put not only the members of Congress, but Pence himself, in harm's way.

But we don't know exactly if he would go that far. I think there is some concern in Pence's circles that, if he were to do that, the president might take some very rash actions. And so I think he's trying to be very purposeful.

Up until now. I will say, Vice President Mike Pence has been a very, very loyal soldier to the president. He hasn't -- you know, in many instances over the past four years, hasn't taken the opportunity to potentially try to pull back from the president, certainly not publicly, and, you know, by all indications, very little privately.

BERMAN: Yes, CNN's reporting is that Mike Pence is unlikely -- "unlikely" is the word that we've been told -- to invoke the 25th Amendment but hasn't taken it off the table, because it want -- he wants it as a threat to constrain the president in these next nine days. He doesn't want the president to feel as if he has free rein to do something, frankly, even more dangerous than he's already done.

It's hard to imagine something more dangerous, frankly, than he's already done, which is tell a mob to go to the Capitol, a mob that ultimately invaded the Capitol and launched that insurrection.

And Charlie, you know, what some Democrats and Republicans say is that the reason that they are impeaching isn't necessarily just to remove the president from office. And as you said, if the executive can launch a literal attack on the legislative branch with no repercussion, then it is a stain on history; and to some extent, it breaks -- it breaks the constitutional arrangement set up by the Founding Fathers.

[06:10:04]

DENT: Absolutely. The -- look, the president tried to disrupt the constitutional order. This was an assault on the first branch of government by the second branch. I mean, this is a very -- this is just so unprecedented and upsetting.

And to -- and to see it play out the way it did on television, I mean, the -- I mean, it would almost be irresponsible not to act.

Hey, just one thing on the 25th Amendment. You know, I prefer impeachment to the 25th Amendment. I'll tell you why. You know, with all these cabinet secretaries heading for the gates, you know, to avoid having to sit in on these conversations, you've got all these acting people. I don't know that I'm crazy about setting the precedent of removing a president by people who have not been confirmed by the Senate.

I don't even know at this point how many cabinet members have -- who are sitting there who have been approved or confirmed by the U.S. Senate. So that would set a precedent.

So resignation, impeachment, and 25th Amendment in that order. That's my -- my view on this thing.

CAMEROTA: And so, if -- if they were to go the impeachment route, Anna, if they impeached this week, then there's talk of postponing a Senate trial until after Joe Biden's first 100 days. Does this have any, like, expiration on it? I mean, how would that work?

PALMER: It doesn't have an expiration date, but I think that's a tricky argument for Democrats to make when they're trying to thread the needle on this. Because they're saying, it is of so much urgency we must impeach the president. We must impeach him now, and then, wait, no, we're just going to wait the hundred days and let Joe Biden get his administration going, and then we'll take this up.

So I think that's a tricky argument to make. Either you have to say that it is so urgent that we are going to impeach him on Wednesday and deliver the articles of impeachment, because once it is delivered from the House to the Senate, they have to take that up. That starts the clock ticking.

And so the Speaker is going to have a difficult choice here. But at the same time, I think it's hard to argue what you've seen, you know, Mr. Clyburn and others start to argue for Democrats, is that they don't want this to overshadow the Biden administration getting its footing and getting started.

CAMEROTA: Anna Palmer, Charlie Dent, thank you both very much. We'll see you guys in a minute. We have more questions, actually.

Senate Republicans Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley facing fierce backlash for their role in inciting the deadly insurrection at the Capitol. Could they be expelled from office? We'll talk about how.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:16:15]

BERMAN: This morning, Republican senators Ted Cruz and Josh Hawley facing growing calls to resign or face being expelled more their role inciting the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

Back with us, former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent and Anna Palmer. New representative Cori Bush is introducing a resolution to expel members of Congress who supported overturning the electoral vote, I think, and inciting the violence or, at a minimum, maybe Mo Brooks and Louis Gohmert who spoke there.

They're talking about the 14th Amendment, which Speaker Pelosi also added in her memo. Let me read you what this says, the amendment: "No person shall be a senator or representative in Congress; or elector of president and vice president; or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States or under any state, who have previously taken an oath as a member of Congress or an officer of the U.S. or any member of the state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution in the United States" -- and this is the key part -- "shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."

Now, this came after the Civil War. And the purpose of this was to keep Confederate members of the Confederate Congress out of the U.S. Congress, Charlie.

But what do you think of the possibility of using this against people who spoke in support or people who spoke before the mob went to the Capitol?

DENT: I would be very concerned about such a resolution.

I believe there have been five expulsions in the history of the House of Representatives. Three during the Civil War for treason and the other two were James Traficant and Ozzie Myers for acts of political corruption.

And the expulsions in the Senate were for the same reason during the Civil War.

These -- many of these members have exercised terrible political judgment, particularly Senators Hawley and Cruz. But at the end of the day, I think they'd have to be judged by their voters for their -- for their deeds and their -- and their horrible judgment. And so I think that's where this should go, back to the voters.

CAMEROTA: But, Charlie, how is Mo Brooks, Congressman Mo Brooks, standing on the podium in front of the crowd working them up -- working them up to a lather, saying, "Time to go kick some ass," how is that not worse than what Traficant did?

DENT: Well, it is terrible conduct. You know, I thought the question had to deal with there were 140 members who voted in the House -- in the House for this, and a few were in the Senate, obviously. But his -- his -- again, his conduct is reprehensible. Whether or not it rises --

CAMEROTA: Why not expellable?

DENT: -- to the level of expulsion -- well, look, if they want to focus on Mo Brooks, I wouldn't go after the 140 of them. But if they want to focus on those who they think were the ring leaders of this, I mean, they're free to do it.

But again, I -- I do believe that the voters should have the ultimate say. They sent him down there. And this is what they've got. So I think they have -- they have to answer to their voters. I think that's the best way to proceed. I mean, expulsion is a very big deal. And it's -- like I said, it's only been done, really, for -- for treason during the Civil War, pretty much. Other than those two examples I cited. That's it.

So again, this is a very big precedent, and I'd be very careful going down that -- that road, even though I disagree with the conduct of what these -- these individuals have done.

BERMAN: Anna Palmer, where's Christopher Wray? I mean, there was an attack on the U.S. Capitol, a siege on the U.S. Capitol, an insurrection. Why aren't we hearing from the FBI every single day? I mean, why isn't there a high-profile news conference -- this is more video. This is of an officer being crushed. But why aren't we hearing about this every day at this point?

PALMER: I actually -- I've been tweeting about this all weekend, because I think it's stunning. The only press conferences we've had have been at the local D.C. Police level or Muriel Bowser talking about things, the D.C. Mayor. There's been no federal press conferences.

[06:20:10]

I mean, think about this, after 9/11 or any other massive crisis this country has gone through. Typically, you're having at least one to two a day, trying to explain what's happened. And it's been a total failure of leadership. I think it is something that we've been continuing to point out and will continue to press them to make, you know, comments or give us any information as the press to then let everybody else know in the public that wants to know how this could have ever happened, and what are they doing to make sure it doesn't happen again, particularly when there's a lot of ongoing threats and, you know, kind of online chatter about another potential, you know, movement trying to take the Capitol again.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Charlie, the Capitol Police chief, Steven Sund, has given an interview to "The Washington Post" in which he outlines from his perspective all of the security failures.

He claims that he was basically beseeching the sergeant -- the Senate sergeant at arms, the House sergeant at arms, the Pentagon to send in backup, and that they were all resistant for one reason or another. At least at the Pentagon, the Army secretary didn't want the optics of National Guard in front of the Capitol.

It's worrisome. I mean, these next nine days are really worrisome. It doesn't sound as though we've figured out what happened or we've fixed the problem.

DENT: No question. Look, there was clearly intelligence failures. There were planning failures. And as I was watching those videos unfold, my reaction was, where are the dogs? Where are the horses? Where are the firehoses? And why aren't peopled on ground or up against the walls being -- you know, being physically restrained? And it was clear there wasn't enough manpower.

And I -- my other question, too. Why wasn't there a National Guard there, immediately. They should have been deployed. And now we're finding out the facts, and we want to get -- I think Congress needs to get to the bottom of this.

Who made the decisions not to allow the National Guard to be deployed after requests had been made, apparently, by the Capitol Police. I mean, that is a -- that's a scandal all by itself.

So we're going to have to have, obviously, much, much more robust security for the upcoming inauguration in a few days.

BERMAN: I just want to be clear, once again, we're watching more of this video here, and what we've seen is just repugnant, right? It's of officers being assaulted. It's of people out of their minds, attacking the U.S. Capitol.

I have to let you both go, but Anna, you know everything. Is it a safe bet at this point, will the president be impeached this week?

PALMER: Definitely in the House. If Nancy Pelosi decides to take that move, House Democrats will pass it, for sure.

BERMAN: That's incredible. That, too.

DENT: It would be bipartisan.

BERMAN: That's also a stunning statement, a bipartisan impeachment, the second of a president of the United States.

Anna, Charlie, thanks so much.

One of the things know I have heard, including from Republicans over the weekend, is fear, very real fear that this is not over. That the people, the type of people who invaded the U.S. Capitol are planning more. How are U.S. law enforcement agencies preparing for this? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:27:14]

CAMEROTA: Law enforcement in the nation's capital and across the country are bracing for the possibility of more extremist violence ahead of the inauguration of President-elect Joe Biden next week.

New video of the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol captures this mob of domestic terrorists dragging and beating a police officer.

In another video, the mob is heard calling for the vice president to be killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! (END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: "Hang Mike Pence" is what the mob is shouting there. CNN's Jessica Schneider is live in Washington with more.

So what do we know about preparations?

JESSICA SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Alisyn.

Law enforcement right now monitoring social media very carefully, and they're seeing calls for even more future armed protests, including a second possible attack on the U.S. Capitol. Attacks also possible on state capitals on Sunday, January 17.

Now, here in Washington, the Capitol is now fortified. There's a 7- foot-high non-scalable fence that's gone up around the complex.

And D.C.'s mayor, Muriel Bowser, she's asking the Trump administration for an emergency declaration for D.C. She says that further violence is likely, and she's asking the Department of Homeland Security to extend the time period where there's greater cooperation and more resources available. She wants that extended to January 24, four days after the inauguration.

Now, the mayor's also asking DHS to coordinate with the Department of Defense, Congress, and the Supreme Court to establish a broad security perimeter with federal forces around federal property, so that would really free up D.C. Police to focus on its normal duties.

Now, all of that preparation and precaution, it's coming as investigators are digging into the level of planning and coordination among those rioters last week.

Federal prosecutors right now, they're probing whether there might have been a plan to capture and hold members of Congress hostage. That includes House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, possibly even Vice President Pence, as you saw in that video, where they were chanting.

Now, investigators are concerned by the fact that some of these insurgents who showed up, they were carrying plastic zip tie restraints. They were dressed in military gear. So that probe is happening as we are seeing already a cascade of arrests, federal charges, 20 people now charged federally so far.

But Alisyn, the acting U.S. attorney here in Washington says that is just the beginning, that there could be hundreds of people eventually facing those federal charges, as we move toward the rest of this week, into the weekend. A lot of people are being probed right now -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Jessica, thank you very much for all of that reporting.

Joining us now, CNN law enforcement analyst, Jonathan Wackrow. He's a former U.S. Secret Service agent.

Jonathan, how could they not have seen this coming? JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It -- it's stunning to

me, Alisyn. You know, listen, since January 6, there's been a significant.