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Trump Lawyers to Deliver Impeachment Defense; Georgia Prosecutor Speaks Out on Trump Criminal Probe; Pharmacies Begin Offering Coronavirus Vaccines Today. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired February 12, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The managers showed several examples of rioters shouting Trump's name and proclaiming they were doing his bidding.

[05:57:41]

DAVID SCHOEN, TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT ATTORNEY: This is what you get when you make a professional product that takes things out of context.

REP. JOE NEGUSE (D-CO): If we pretend this didn't happen, or worse, if we let it go unanswered, who's to say it won't happen again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this were a Little League game, the mercy rule would have been invoked. It was such a powerful argument.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no coherent basis for concluding President Trump's comments were incitement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He knew that, egged on by his tweets, his most extreme followers would show up, ready to fight like hell for their hero.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It's Friday, February 12, 6 a.m. here in New York, and today Donald Trump's lawyers make their defense of him.

CNN has learned that Trump's legal team will use only a fraction of their allotted 16 hours. And since many Republican jurors seem to be distracted or even absent from the room, it leaves the impression that their vote is a foregone conclusion.

Three Republican senators -- Ted Cruz, Lindsey Graham, Mike Lee -- who are supposed to be impartial jurors, met with Trump's defense team during the trial to talk strategy. According to one Trump lawyer, those senators are, quote, "just very friendly guys," end quote, who wanted to make sure the Trump team was, quote, "familiar with procedure." OK. That does not inspire confidence in the Trump legal team or the

senators.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Why, because of the claim that Ted Cruz was a very friendly guy?

CAMEROTA: No, because they think they need to tell the lawyers how to do this.

BERMAN: I was hung up on the very friendly guy part.

All right. So here's a question for you. What do Thailand and Turkmenistan have in common? The answer? The U.S. Capitol is in neither. The U.S. Capitol that was invaded, an invasion that led to the death of five Americans, not in Turkmenistan or Thailand.

So why, then, was Republican Senator Rick Scott reportedly looking at a blank map of Asia during the trial yesterday?

At one point during yesterday's proceedings, CNN observed at least 15 empty seats on the Republican side of the chamber.

We're going to begin with new information about what we expect to hear today. CNN's Lauren Fox live on Capitol Hill with that -- Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, the House managers took two days. We expect that Trump's defense team is just going to take a couple of hours. And that is, in part, because they do not feel like they are in danger of losing their case.

Despite the fact that many Republicans were telling CNN, me and my colleagues, yesterday that they thought that the House managers were making a compelling case, there's no evidence that they are willing to move ahead and actually have 17 of them convict the former president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOX (voice-over): Former President Donald Trump's defense team will have their turn today to explain why they believe he is not responsible for the deadly insurrection at the Capitol.

And despite having 16 hours over the next two days to present their case, Trump's lawyers could make their defense as short as three hours. That's according to a source close to the former president's legal team.

SCHOEN: There's no reason for us to be out there a long time. As I said from the start of this thing, this trial never should have happened.

FOX: They will use their time attempting to show no connection between Trump and the January 6 insurrection.

And video examples they say demonstrate Democratic leaders using what they call similar language to the former president. One possible clip is of Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, speaking outside the Supreme Court last March, the source close to Trump's team says.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): I want to tell you, Gorsuch, I want to tell you, Kavanaugh, you have released the whirlwind, and you will pay the price!

FOX: The argument, despite no violence happening after Schumer's speech, like it did following Trump's rally on January 6.

The former president's lawyers also meeting with three Republican senators Thursday night. Even with their roles as jurors, Texas Senator Ted Cruz says they discussed Trump's defense strategy.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): I urged the -- the Trump defense lawyers, let's focus on the point I just made, which is that the legal standard -- in all 16 hours of the House managers' presentation, they spent only about 15 minutes on the legal standard for incitement. And they created this brand-new standard that's found in no criminal code.

FOX: One Democrat calling the efforts by the group of GOP senators desperate.

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): They're worried, and they should be. In these two days, the House managers have put together a powerful case against this president.

FOX: In their final arguments, the House impeachment managers urging senators to hold Trump accountable.

NEGUSE: We humbly, humbly ask you to convict President Trump for the crime for which he is overwhelmingly guilty of. If we let it go unanswered, who's to say it won't happen again?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were invited here!

FOX: Focusing on how many rioters, they say, were following the former president's direction that day.

REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D-CO): Donald Trump had sent them there. They truly believed that the whole intrusion was at the president's orders. And we know that because they said so.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought I was following my president. I thought I was following what we were called to do.

FOX: Their presentation including a timeline, showing how Trump embraced violence even before becoming president and examples of how Trump showed no remorse after the attack.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: My speech and my words and my final paragraph, my final sentence, and everybody to the "T" thought it was totally appropriate.

REP. TED LIEU (D-CA): He knew that people -- that died. And his message to all of us was that his conduct was totally appropriate.

FOX: The House prosecutors sending this warning, saying an acquittal for Trump is a dangerous risk.

REP. JAMIE RASKIN (D-MD): President Trump declared his conduct totally appropriate. So, if he gets back into office, and it happens again, we'll have no one to blame but ourselves.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX: And after Trump's team completes their arguments, which we expect to happen today, there would then be four hours of senator questions.

If there are no witnesses that the House managers call on, then this entire trial could end as soon as tomorrow night. They would essentially vote on whether or not to convict Trump at this point. We don't expect 17 Republicans to be willing to take that step -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Lauren, thank you very much for all of that.

Joining us now, CNN political analyst Seung Min Kim. She's a White House reporter for "The Washington Post." And CNN legal analyst and Republican election lawyer Ben Ginsberg. Great to see both of you.

Ben, I read your notes. You say the less the Trump defense team says, the better. That's funny, but I think it does beg the question, why are we going through this charade? I mean, why don't they just rest the case right now? Why are they putting us through this if they shouldn't be talking, because it hurts their case, and if so many Republican senators have already said their minds are made up?

BEN GINSBERG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Because the Republican senators want something in the record to be able to cling to, to justify what is a very uncomfortable vote for them.

[06:05:03]

And it's going to be short, because there's not a whole heck of a lot that they can really say in the face of that very thorough and compelling House Democratic presentation.

But it is important for the president to get things in the record. What will be interesting to look at is whether the Trump lawyers go beyond the constitutional process argument, and try and make an argument, even under the First Amendment, but certainly about Trump's big lie. He has always wanted that forum. This is sort of his last chance.

BERMAN: It was interesting to hear Senator Ted Cruz, Ben, repeatedly in that clip we just heard, say that the House managers didn't try to meet the legal standard, the legal standard for incitement. It's a canard, right?

I mean, what he's saying there -- and he's basing everything on there, Ted Cruz -- it's simply a canard. And this is something Jamie Raskin addressed yesterday, the idea that there are not First Amendment protections, per se, for elected officials in this setting.

You know, Ted Cruz is hanging it all on the Brandenburg decision from the Supreme Court, which had to do with someone speaking at a Klan rally.

I just want to read you what "The Atlantic" wrote about this, Ben, because I think it's really telling here. "According to their theory, the Ted Cruz theory, Congress could not impeach, convict, remove, or disqualify a president who, like Clarence Brandenburg, spoke at a Klan rally in a white hood, advocated violence, used the "N" word repeatedly in declaring that African-Americans should be forcibly returned to Africa and proclaim that the Jew should be sent to Israel."

There are not free speech protections if a president said that. So what Ted Cruz was basing his claims on there on FOX TV is just -- it's a canard.

GINSBERG: Yes. I mean, it's an apples and oranges comparison, and he frankly knows better. And to me, that's a sign that the Republican senators, even the most ardent Trump supporters, know this is a really weak case. So that's sort of an attempt to cloud matters.

But if the president of the United States foments an armed insurrection, that's impeachable, putting aside the First Amendment considerations in a criminal case.

CAMEROTA: Seung Min, when we talked to Ben Ginsberg yesterday, he said that he thought that calling a couple of key witnesses could actually tip the scales in favor of the House managers, the prosecutors, the Democrats.

For instance, the witnesses who knew why President Trump was MIA and not trying to call off the violence once the insurrection happened.

What is your reporting on what the calculation was among House managers of why it looks like they're not calling witnesses?

SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, the question of witnesses has actually been a pretty tricky one for House impeachment managers and for Senate Democrats, because you know, trials usually have witnesses.

And Chuck Schumer made a very clear point last year during the president's first impeachment trial that it is not a trial without witnesses, and that was a big part of their pressure campaign against those swing Republicans in that vote.

But right now, Democrats are saying the video evidence is so compelling that they don't need to -- that they don't need to call witnesses. We're not expecting any at this point.

But what they won't say is that they see the writing on the wall. They know that there aren't going to be 17 Republicans to convict. So with the time that -- that, you know, calling witnesses, fighting them to come to the Senate, the time that that would consume, that's time that's taken away from President Biden's agenda -- COVID relief, cabinet nominees -- which is something that is so important to Senate Democrats. Something that's so important, clearly, to President Biden. But you're right. You know, if -- if this were a full-blown trial and

House impeachment managers were prepared to subpoena, say, Mark Meadows or some of other -- some of President Trump's other closest aides to really tell the Senate what President Trump was doing at the time, what his mindset was, did he really not act when he was told about the violence at the Capitol, it could have been compelling testimony for some Republican senators.

But I think that was a calculation Democrats were making. They didn't need witnesses because, "A," the video was compel -- so very compelling, and "B," it was just not going to change Republican senators' minds.

BERMAN: So Seung Min, you know, the conventional wisdom has been that the White House thinks it would somehow take away from its agenda to ask for witnesses or to prolong the trial a little bit, but isn't the Senate going to go in recess next week if they finish?

I'm not -- I'm just not sure that that argument is as sound as everyone just seems to be willing to accept. I get the confirmations, the confirmations of the nominees to the cabinet. That would be delayed.

But in terms of the actual agenda and COVID relief, that's progressing through committee. Even -- even if they had two more weeks of an impeachment trial, I don't think it would necessarily derail where that's going.

KIM: Right. You're exactly right. I mean, you have House committees, several of them, marking up COVID relief legislation and, you know, frankly, moving along at a pretty rapid clip.

[06:10:10]

It's really the question of, you know, that floor time for cabinet nominees, you know, for example. And just kind of the acrimony that's been created in the Senate over this impeachment trial. I know senators love to go on recess to kind of just take a breather from Washington and just kind of get away from the partisanship.

But your -- but there is no doubt that just kind of the toxic atmosphere in the Senate right now has, you know, derailed bits and pieces of President Biden's agenda.

For example, there was a big argument over scheduling the confirmation hearing for Merrick Garland, you know, President Biden's pick to be attorney general. They finally got a hearing on the books for February 22, but that was delayed, partly because of all these machinations in the Senate. And, you know, President Biden's team is very aware of that.

And frankly, again, Democratic senators believe that there won't be 17 senators at the end of the day, or 17 Republican senators at the end of the day to vote in favor of conviction. And they feel witnesses really aren't necessary at this point. CAMEROTA: Hey, Ben, we have reporting, and we know it to be true, that

three Republican senators -- Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, Lindsey Graham -- went and met with the Trump defense team to talk strategy. They're supposed to be impartial jurors. That sounds like something that should break the rules, but should I hold my powder on that one?

GINSBERG: Well, I think you should. If you remember back to the first Trump impeachment, Mitch McConnell and other Republican senators went down to the White House to discuss strategy with the Trump legal team, and there were no ramifications for that.

So in a real jury, it would be grounds for disqualification, but hey, guess what? The Senate is not a real jury.

BERMAN: Yes, yes.

CAMEROTA: You heard it here first. Breaking news.

Ben, Seung Min, thank you both very much.

BERMAN: They're coming back.

CAMEROTA: Oh, thank goodness. Thank you in advance.

GINSBERG: Yes.

CAMEROTA: OK. See you in a minute.

Whatever happens in the Senate, Donald Trump's legal problems are not over. A top prosecutor in Georgia is now investigating the former president's efforts to overturn the election results there. We have a new interview with the district attorney who is leading this new investigation, next.

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[06:16:40]

BERMAN: Developing this morning, a top prosecutor in Georgia is speaking out about the criminal investigation into the former president and his call with the Georgia secretary of state, trying to overturn the election results there. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FANI WILLIS, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: What I know about investigations is they're kind of like peeling back an onion. And as you go through each layer, you learn different things. And so, yes, the investigation seems that it will go past just this one phone call.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Back with us, Seung Min Kim and Ben Ginsberg. Ben, what legal jeopardy is the former president in in terms of this criminal investigation, the call where he asked the secretary of state to find votes? So what's his culpability there? But even if not able to convict, what kind of jeopardy does this put him and those surrounding him in, in the investigatory process?

GINSBERG: Well, of course, part of the criminal charges that will be brought before a grand jury is his intent, his state of mind. There's only one way to get at that evidence. And that's to depose the former president of the United States. That would not be a pleasing occurrence, I suspect, for Donald Trump. But he's under the -- he's under the grasp of the grand jury.

And so there is the possibility of the criminal convictions and civil fines for what he did. But more than anything else, I think he would be dreading the deposition, the appearance before the grand jury.

CAMEROTA: Well, I have some information on that, because the attorney general in Fulton County, Georgia, addressed that last night on television. I will now do a dramatic reading.

She said, "First of all, in criminal law, we don't do depositions. In very rare occasions. So that's not something we could use, because if someone is charged with a crime, they're a defendant, and so they have a right to remain silent." So there would be no intent to depose -- Ben.

GINSBERG: They've got -- they've got to get at his intent somehow, so maybe it's before a grand jury investigation. Maybe he claims the Fifth Amendment. But Donald Trump has said only guilty people claim the Fifth Amendment. So part of his strategy might be needing to get out his story. So there will be some consequences for a grand jury.

BERMAN: Right. And people will be called to testify before a grand jury. People, maybe not the president if he's the target. He could plead the fifth.

But others could, or others might be granted immunity, Seung Min. This is a problem in Trump world, as it were. If there were criminal investigations now without the possibility of pardons, without the shield you have inside the White House, there are people within Trump world who might be asked to go to Georgia and talk about this. And I have to imagine that creates some problem in that political family.

KIM: Right. Because, again, if you're one of his closest aides, you were with the president when you -- when all of this was unfolding. You know, we know -- we know the aides who were on that call with Georgia's secretary of state, Brad Raffensperger, who can be compelled to tell a grand jury exactly what the president was doing.

And we've seen the inconsistent -- I mean, this is something that we've seen from -- from Trump officials and those defending him. They can say one thing to the press, to the public, because, you know, there is no legal consequence of, you know, lying in the media. But they can't, you know, lie to a grand jury or in a court of law. And the Trump officials are aware of that.

[06:20:06]

That's why we've seen discrepancies, for example, between court filings and what his lawyers had told us when the Trump campaign was contesting so many of these election results.

And the criminal issue that we're now discussing is interesting, too, because this isn't -- this isn't a talking point that has been discussed too much among Republican senators, but it is something that I've heard from senators Marco Rubio and even Josh Hawley.

When they're making the case that, look, impeachment -- the impeachment trial isn't the proper venue for a former president. They're saying, that can be -- you know, that should be aired out in a criminal -- you know, in a criminal court. They're not saying President Trump is liable, but they're saying, you know, let the -- you know, let prosecutors, let grand juries handle it.

And the bottom line is, they, themselves, don't want to be the person that holds President Trump accountable at the end of the day.

CAMEROTA: And so Ben, what criminal charges could -- could Donald Trump be looking at in this case? I mean, I've read this litany of different charges. It's not just false statements or conspiracy. It goes all the way up to racketeering, which is sort of like, you know, a mob boss, what you hear in the charges of those kind of cases. So how does that work?

GINSBERG: Well, the racketeering is a fairly creative count to bring. But it basically means that he was working with lots of different people to achieve this improper result.

Certainly, election fraud and conspiracy. And he's got some vulnerabilities there because of his statement, "I want you to find me 11,380 votes. That's one more than they have." That's a -- that's a command, in the hands of a prosecutor, to actually create votes, which ironically, would be the election fraud that Donald Trump claims is rampant and we've never seen -- been able to prove before.

BERMAN: If only there were a tape of the former president saying that out loud. If only someone had recorded it, Ben.

CAMEROTA: That would be a smoking gun.

BERMAN: Oh, wait!

GINSBERG: Yes.

BERMAN: All right. Ben, Seung Min, we appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you very much.

Starting today, your local pharmacy may have the coronavirus vaccine. What you need to know about the new program aiming to deliver 100 million vaccine doses, next.

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[06:26:34]

CAMEROTA: New this morning, nearly 35 million Americans have now received their first coronavirus vaccine. On Thursday, 1.6 million Americans were vaccinated and starting today, vaccines will be available at pharmacies like CVS and Walgreens across the U.S.

CNN's Jason Carroll is live at a Walgreens store in Connecticut with more. So what's happening there, Jason?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, this is all an effort to make getting a vaccine as convenient as it is to get a flu shot.

So what you're seeing in this federal program is, you've got 1 million doses now heading out to retail chains across the country. Some 6,500 locations across the country. Some major chains, such as Walgreens, as you mentioned.

In addition to that, you've got Wal-Mart, you've got CVS, you've got Rite Aid. Walgreens for its part has received 180,000 doses. That's going to be going to its pharmacies in more than a dozen states.

Here in the state of Connecticut, for example, they've got 4,400 doses. That's going to be going to 44 of its pharmacies here in the state, including this one where we are right now in New Britain.

There's been a lot of talk about demand, because what we've been seeing, Alisyn, as you know, is sometimes more demand than there is supply.

Well, Walgreens, for its part, would not comment about what sort of demand they're seeing so far, when it comes to this rollout of this federal program, but they did say they expect all 180,000 of the doses that they've received to be used up, to be administered by Monday, Tuesday of next week at the latest.

Also, we should point out, this federal program is not only aimed at making things more convenient. It's also aimed at getting at vulnerable communities.

Here in New Britain, for example, they've had a real tough time. They've really been struggling, trying to get this vaccine out to the elderly population. While this new federal program is aimed at doing just that, but also getting out at urban centers, getting to rural areas, as well -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK. Really interesting, Jason. Thank you very much for all of those numbers and what to expect in different states.

Joining us now is Dr. Peter Hotez. He's the co-director at the Center for Vaccine Development at Texas Children's Hospital. And the dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.

Dr. Hotez, great to see you.

So good news, that more vaccines are making their way to local pharmacies, but of course, at the same time, there's frightening news that the U.K. variant is getting more prevalent here in the U.S.

And so have you heard what the Biden administration's plan is for next month, when we expect that variant to be even, you know, more rampaging through the country?

DR. PETER HOTEZ, DEAN, NATIONAL SCHOOL OF TROPICAL MEDICINE, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: You know, Alisyn, this is the only part that I'm not clear about. The president announced yesterday, I think at the NIH, that we're going to have several hundred million doses by July of the Moderna and the Pfizer vaccine. We're going to have 100 million doses each of the Novavax and J&J vaccine. So that by the summer, I think we're going to be in excellent shape to vaccinate fully the American people. And that's really good news.

It's also good news we're getting up to about 1.6 million immunizations a day.

The problem is this. With the U.K. variant now, many of us think that there's going to be a doubling every week, every ten days. So that, as we get into the middle of March, April, and May, that's the time when we're really going to see this big upswing in the number of new cases and possibly deaths.

So even though the numbers are coming down, and we're getting below 100,000 now for the first time in many, many weeks, we're going to start seeing that upswing as we go into the middle of March.