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Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Data Released; Tanden Vote Postponed; Pence Speaks Highly of Trump. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 24, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You see 72 percent protected there. But it's really that right side of the screen that they spent a lot of time talking about in the summary, how likely was this to prevent severe disease across the globe, how likely was it to prevent hospitalizations across the globe and how likely was it to prevent deaths? They found that there were no deaths in the people who received the vaccine. Good news. There were two hospitalizations within 14 days in people who received the vaccine versus zero at 28 days. So people got released from the hospital.

So, you know, seems pretty protective against severe illness and very protective against hospitalizations and death.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So, Sanjay, all of this information that you're sharing and that you're making your way through these 62 pages right now, what does it mean for when we can get this vaccine?

GUPTA: Yes, well, so what we know is that Friday is when this FDA advisory committee is going to meet. And that's going to be a public meeting. You know, people can watch that meeting take place. And they're going to go through a lot of this data that I'm starting to outline for you here.

I can tell you, the data looks promising. So, you know, we'll see what happens. But I -- at this point there's no reason to believe the FDA advisory committee would not recommend to the FDA that this be approved.

And we went through this same process with Moderna and Pfizer. So maybe even late Friday we may hear that there is an authorized now emergency use authorization for the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.

Over the weekend, we will likely hear from the CDC committee that actually looks at these immunization protocols and they'll make the recommendations on the who, what, where. Who should get this vaccine, where should it go, all that sort of stuff.

And then, you know, I've talked to folks at Johnson & Johnson. We know that there are a certain number of doses that are currently available. And to your question, I guess, early next week they could probably be shipping out. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, two questions here, Sanjay. One, I

thought I had understood that from this data they were going to get some sign or at least ask about transmissibility, whether or not there was any indication about whether the Johnson & Johnson vaccine had an impact on transmissibility, whether you could get it and be asymptomatic.

And then also, as we look at this data, it confirms what we had suspected before, that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine works well against hospitalizations and deaths, which is ultimately the goal here. But it is less effective, at least it seems in percentage-wise than Moderna and Pfizer. So how should people approach this?

SANJAY: So let me take that second question first. So, you're right, I mean we showed the numbers and you can clearly see that against moderate disease it does appear less effective, less likely to protect you from getting a moderate disease depending on which strain of the virus you're actually being infected with. We kind of suspected that. There's been some suspicion that people who have been previously infected, for example, may not be as protected against some of these new strains that are circulating.

What does it mean in terms of Moderna and Pfizer? That's a really good question. What I would tell you is the Moderna and Pfizer trials were conducted earlier in this pandemic when there weren't -- when there wasn't as much virus that was actually being transmitted overall. And there weren't as many of these variants that were being transmitted. So in some ways it was like a less severe disease overall at that point.

I think the real apples to apples comparison would be to say, OK, we're going to take the Moderna or Pfizer vaccine and if it had been trialed at the exact same time in the exact same locations as the Johnson & Johnson vaccine, how would it have held up then? The answer may be very similar. They both do a very good job at, I think, accomplishing what most people want out of the vaccine, preventing them from getting severe illness, preventing them from needing to go to the hospital or dying. So, you know, we'll look at those numbers a little bit more closely.

The other part of your question, John, in terms of transmissibility, I'm just starting to look at that data now. You're right, they did do swabs on these trial participants, at least in some of the data that I'm starting to look at, looking to see if people were actually carrying the virus after they've been vaccinated. And did that number go down compared to placebo group?

Remember, the way these trials work for the most part, you've got tens of thousands of people. Half of them got the vaccine. Half didn't. And you basically -- they go out. And after a certain amount of time, people are raising their hand saying, I have symptoms. Those people come in. They get tested. Do you have the actual virus? Do you have the symptoms? And that's what they've been looking at primarily.

To get the information about, does this also reduce infection and transmissibility? Sometimes it takes longer. Some of that's buried in here and we're going to continue to analyze that and get back to you.

CAMEROTA: OK. We can't wait to get that tidbit since that's super important.

And in terms of how many doses to expect, how many vaccines they'll be distributing. So yesterday a J&J exec was on Capitol Hill and gave this number.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RICHARD NETTLES, VP OF MEDICAL AFFAIRS, JOHNSON & JOHNSON: We're prepared to ship immediately upon emergency use authorization nearly 4 million doses of our vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:35:09]

CAMEROTA: So, Sanjay, I'm not trying to insert intrigue where there is none, but in the --

BERMAN: That would be unlike you.

CAMEROTA: That would be very unlike me, but in the past they had said 10 million, OK? Yesterday they said 4 million. And then the White House said to expect 2 million. So why is this a moving target?

GUPTA: Well, there clearly seems to be some sort of problem overall with the number of doses because I talked to the folks at Johnson & Johnson initially as well and I heard the number closer to 10 million. And we also know that this is a company that overall plans on manufacturing close to a billion doses over the year. Now, obviously, most of those not targeted for the United States. But, still, it gives you an idea the manufacturing capacity of a place like Johnson & Johnson and (INAUDIBLE). So I don't know.

I think with regard to the 4 million versus 2 million, what we seem to be hearing is that 2 million doses of the 4 million may be going straight to the states and 2 million may be going to these federally vaccine administered centers. So, you know, some of these community centers that we're talking about, other types of vaccine distribution.

We don't know. We hope to hear that. And I think that's also going to be part of the discussion that the -- what is called ACIP (ph), this immunization practices committee of the CDC, will hopefully be shedding some light on it. They're the ones who sort of determine where the existing vaccines go. So if there's 4 million, where exactly are they going to go? We haven't heard a lot about this. Keep in mind, with Moderna and Pfizer, we had a much better sort of sense of what was going to be happening at this point in the calendar of events. We haven't heard as much from -- about the Johnson & Johnson vaccine yet.

BERMAN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, I have to say, this is happening real time. A lot of data that you took a break -- you took your -- lifted your head up to talk to us in the midst of reading through this. We'll let you get back to digging through the data because there's a lot of interesting stuff there.

GUPTA: OK.

BERMAN: Thank you so much for being with us.

GUPTA: Thank you. You got it.

BERMAN: We're also getting breaking news on what could be President Biden's first cabinet nominee to fail on Capitol Hill. May soon be a former cabinet nominee. Breaking details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:41:18]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: And we have some breaking news out of Capitol Hill. A Senate committee just postponed its vote today on advancing President Biden's budget nominee, Neera Tanden.

CNN's Lauren Fox has just been scrambled. She's live on Capitol Hill with all of the breaking details.

What does this mean?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, I mean, look, this is the first of Biden's nominees that is really experiencing significant pushback from even those in Biden's own party. Remember, Joe Manchin came out against Neera Tanden last Friday. There has been a lot of questions about whether or not her nomination would move forward. But what we are seeing now is both the House Budget Committee and the Homeland Security Committee, both of those committees were supposed to advance her nomination today, announcing that they are going to be postponing those mark-ups to advance her nomination to give members some more time to consider her nomination.

And I think that is significant because you have to look at who sits on these committees. And I want to go to the Homeland Security Committee first. Kyrsten Sinema is a Democrat on that committee. She has not said whether or not she would support Neera Tanden. We have asked her repeatedly.

So the question now, of course, is whether or not she is having concerns or questions about Neera Tanden's nomination that could potentially imperil that nomination even at the committee level.

Then you also have the Budget Committee. We had not heard from Senator Bernie Sanders -- he's the chairman of that committee -- on whether or not he would support Neera Tanden. And, of course, like I said, Joe Manchin, a Democrat from the state of West Virginia, said he did not support Neera Tanden's nomination. That's a problem once you get to the floor because that means you need a Republican senator to come forward and support her. We have not seen that materialize yet. In fact, some of the moderate members you think might cross the aisle, people like Senator Susan Collins, Mitt Romney, they have said that they would not be supporting Neera Tanden. All eyes had been on Lisa Murkowski, a Republican from the state of Alaska, but she said she wanted to see the action in those committees before she made any decision about whether or not she would support Tanden's nomination on the floor.

But, obviously, a huge moment given the fact that this is the first nominee that is experiencing significant problems on Capitol Hill, even from people in Biden's own party.

Alisyn.

BERMAN: Yes, significant problems -- significant problems might be a euphemism at this point, I think it goes without saying. You don't cancel or postpone a vote if you have the numbers.

FOX: Well, that's --

BERMAN: You only -- you only do that if you don't think you have the numbers or if you're not guaranteed to have the numbers there, which is why this may be such a significant thing for Neera Tanden.

And she may be in a different category, Lauren, than others of the president's nominees who may not sail smoothly through the Senate, but are facing some pushback. Who are they?

FOX: Well, that's exactly right. You have seen the nomination hearings begin for both Xavier Becerra, who would lead HHS. You've also seen the nomination hearings begin for Deb Haaland, who would become the Interior secretary. Both of them facing significant pushback from Republicans.

And, look, at the heart of the difference between the Republican and Democratic Party are key policy differences on health care and what you do with drilling and energy leases on federal lands. Those are why those two committees are -- those two nominees, excuse me, are very sensitive for Republicans. That means you need to hold your Democratic Party together because you have a 50-50 Senate. So that is going to be all eyes on Joe Manchin once again when it comes to Deb Haaland's nomination because of his position in West Virginia, the energy sector there, and Haaland's past positions on supporting the green new deal.

CAMEROTA: OK, Lauren, thank you very much for all of that.

We should also mention that we are hearing from the White House that they are not pulling Neera Tanden's nomination. So I know you'll track it for us and bring us any developments as soon as that happens.

[08:45:00]

John.

BERMAN: All right, here is what else to watch today.

ON SCREEN TEXT: 12:30 p.m. ET, White House press briefing.

2:00 p.m. ET, Biden and Harris meet with lawmakers. 4:15 p.m. ET, President Biden signs executive order.

BERMAN: So, new details on the former vice president, Mike Pence, his relationship with the former president, and what this means for the future of the Republican Party, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: What is the future for former Vice President Mike Pence and the GOP as a whole? On Tuesday, Pence reportedly told a group of conservative lawmakers that he maintains a close, personal friendship with former President Donald Trump and harbors no ill will about January 6th, as Pence tries to figure out his future path.

[08:50:12]

Meanwhile, Senator Mitt Romney also talking about Donald Trump and the future role Trump might play in the GOP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): He has, by far, the largest voice and a big impact in my party.

I don't know if he'll run in 2024 or not, but if he does, I'm pretty sure he will win the nomination.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now to talk about this is CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent.

OK, let's just start there, Charlie. Mitt Romney. Do you agree with Mitt Romney that if -- if Donald Trump chooses to run again, he'll win the nomination in 2024?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I do agree with Mitt Romney. Today, that would be the case. Now over the next few years, maybe Donald Trump will diminish as a political figure and that could change. But as of now, Mitt Romney is right, Donald Trump would win the nomination.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about Mike Pence and his future because he reportedly wants to run for president. You know, I -- when a friend sends a blood-thirsty mob after me, that wants to hang me, I rethink that friendship. But Mike Pence sounds like he's different and he has reportedly said that he has -- harbor no ill will and that they still have a close, personal friendship.

What does this tell you about the future for Mike Pence and about how everybody is supposed to co-exist with Donald Trump looming?

DENT: Hey, Alisyn, never underestimate an ambitious politician's tolerance for these types of indignities. I mean we remember, too, you know, Donald Trump called Senator Cruz's wife ugly and accused his father of being part of the JFK assassination conspiracy, and, you know, he's maintained as close ties with the president as he possibly can. So they're willing to do things that make absolutely no sense in my view from a personal standpoint. I think it's pretty horrific.

So the party's in a horrible place. I don't understand why these candidates, or likely candidates, think that attaching themselves to a twice defeated politician in the popular vote. He was defeated while Republican down -- Republicans down ballot were winning. I mean it means that this is a rejection of Donald Trump. They just -- they just only know how to play base politics. All they want to do is talk to the base. They have no capacity to figure out how to build a coalition to win a general election. How do they get the independents that they need? How do they pick up a significant number of democrats? You can't do that by embracing Donald Trump. You know, it's this -- they can't have it both ways.

CAMEROTA: But, I mean, I don't even understand the calculation for Mike Pence. My propping up Donald Trump, isn't he defeating his own political ambitions for 2024?

DENT: Well, yes, and they're all making a very bad assumption, that somehow that the Trump base will immediately transfer to them. I don't accept that for one second. And I think that's what this is all about. They seem to think that by attaching themselves to Donald Trump, that Donald Trump's followers will happily come along and support them.

Well, we saw what happened on January 6th. A lot of those Trump supporters went down to the Capitol, yelling, hang Mike Pence. So I don't think that they should assume for one second that these Trump supporters are theirs for the taking.

CAMEROTA: So Punchbowl News, their Jake Sherman has a column basically saying and offering evidence that the GOP is more adrift now, today, than it has been since Watergate. Even with all the other setbacks and scandals and things that we've reported on during those decades.

What do you think?

DENT: Well, I do think we are as adrift as we've ever been, probably since Watergate. The party is clearly fractured. We have those who want a clean break from Donald Trump. Let's look at the Mitch McConnell and Mitt Romney too and also, you know, Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger and others. They want a clean break. And there are others who want to stay attached. And I don't think that we can have this peaceful co-existence.

Like, I've talked about this before, there are many Republicans talking about a new faction within the GOP, or outside the GOP. Some are even talking about a new party. We are at a point now where I think many are trying to make a decision about the path forward.

There are a lot of republicans like myself who want a new direction. And a new direction is not embracing Donald Trump. So I think we're fractured beyond repair at the moment and something's got to give. Either some of the Trump people have to go or some of the people on my side have to go. I don't think there's going to be a peaceful co- existence here. CAMEROTA: I mean and then you have Senator Ron Johnson, who represents

this -- I'm sorry to say it -- crazy town wing where he resorts to a right-wing blog to get his information about January 6th rather than the intelligence that he's privy to, rather than reading a reputable news source. I mean he tried to claim yesterday, during this hearing where they're trying to get answers as to how this happened, he tried to claim that most of the people in that crowd were jovial and friendly in their demeanor.

[08:55:02]

I mean he -- he has fallen into some sort of strange conspiracy rabbit hole.

DENT: Yes, it's really hard to understand why he's trying to rationalize this attack. I mean it's pretty clear to all of us -- all of us who have television sets and watched what happened that those who -- those people who, you know, who stormed the barricades and broke through and those who, you know, forcibly entered the Capitol and unlawfully entered it, I mean these people, by and large, were violent and set on insurrection. There was nothing -- no redeeming qualities about these folks who were a part of that mob. You know, maybe some of the folks who went to the rally down by the White House and then went home, OK, well, I've been proud of my participation in that but I didn't break any laws apparently. But trying to rationalize this, as the senator has, I don't think is a very good look. And I think he should pay closer attention to the real intelligence he is getting from the law enforcement, FBI and others.

CAMEROTA: Charlie Dent, always great to talk to you. Thank you very much for your perspective.

DENT: Thanks, Alisyn.

BERMAN: Well, you know, a little salt and pepper with Charlie Dent. You said, you know, let's talk about Pence, baby. You want to sing a phrase, of course, in there.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about you and me.

I should have.

BERMAN: It's a great song.

CAMEROTA: Why didn't I think of that.

BERMAN: It's a great song.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, John.

CNN's coverage continues, next.

BERMAN: Salt and pepper, Mike Pence.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[09:00:00]