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Ex-Officer Guilty On All Counts In George Floyd's Death; Columbus Officer Fatally Shoots Teenage Girl Swinging Knife; Judge Keeps Rioter In Jail Citing Trump's Continued Election Lies. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired April 21, 2021 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:30:58]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Guilty on all three counts. Derek Chauvin in prison this morning. A case that's really gripped America for nearly a year but deals with issues that have faced America and plagued America for generations.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator and attorney Bakari Sellers.

Bakari, I had a chance to speak with you the morning after George Floyd was killed and I remember the discussion. I remember the feeling of being overwhelmed by what had happened then, and now talking to you the morning after the verdict.

You say -- you take issue with the scores of people overnight who said this is justice. What do you mean? Why?

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, ATTORNEY, STROM LAW FIRM: Yes, this is not justice. I don't want anyone to get confused about the journey that we're on -- the journey that we're on together.

I mean, there are a couple of things. Justice would be George Floyd alive. Justice would be policy and reforms in place that ensure that when police interact with people of color they can live through those interactions.

Yesterday was a good step when it comes to accountability, though, and you have to have some hope because finally, we have accountability in a criminal justice system that hasn't ever been there before. And so that is why people are breathing easier. That's why people are having some semblance of hope because of that accountability.

But let's just think back to when George Floyd was murdered. Think back to the press release that was issued from the police department saying that there was a medical incident. Think back to the fact that but for us having this young lady who decided to take out her cell phone and have the footage and but for the fact of millions of people around the globe marching, we would not be here today. And so, no, this isn't justice but this is accountability, and we have

to take some -- we have to take some pride and some hope that at least we've gotten that.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: You said something -- I think it was this summer, Bakari -- that really stayed with me. I tried to find it verbatim but I couldn't. What it was you said was to the effect of I think as a parent, that the nightmare is that something happens. There is some interaction with police and the next thing you know you're standing next to Ben Crump.

And I wonder if --

SELLERS: Yes.

KEILAR: -- you think that this verdict reduces the chances of that happening for families?

SELLERS: I think Joey was right in that this verdict -- practically speaking, the number-one thing it does is it's a deterrent on the street.

But again, we have to have the policy changes. I mean, that's why people talk about eliminating qualified immunity so that officers take that heartbeat and think about the action before they do it. Maybe if you think about what's in your hand, you won't confuse a gun with a Taser.

Ben Crump's one of my best friends. We're actually working on a police shooting case in South Carolina. I don't want Ben Crump to be as busy as he is.

We talked last week and Ben said he is tired. And he said I see your -- I was on my way to the studio doing "NEW DAY" in the morning and he said I'm tired. I said I am, too. And then Ben said they just won't stop killing us. And that's where we had this long pause but we understood that our work is still -- yet, is still ahead of us.

But, Brianna, there are two things and there are two fears I want you to be very clear about. The first fear is that your young Black child will have an interaction with law enforcement that goes awry and is taken away too soon. The second fear is that you may have an interaction with law enforcement that takes you away from your family.

That's the stress that Black men, in particular, live with day in and day out in this country. That doesn't leave us with yesterday's verdict but at least we can breathe a little bit easier.

BERMAN: Bakari, you mentioned the press release that came out from the police the day that George Floyd was killed. I want to read it because it's remarkable to see at this point.

Among other things, it says, "Two officers arrived and located the suspect, a male believed to be in his 40s, in his car. He was ordered to step from his car after. After he got out he physically resisted officers. [05:35:02]

Officers were able to get the suspect into handcuffs and noted he appeared to be suffering medical distress. Officers called for an ambulance. He was transported to Hennepin County Medical Center by ambulance where he died a short time later."

It is stunning to read that. That's what the police told us happened. It is stunning to read that now after everything we've learned and after seeing the guilty on three counts in this. \

And it was only 11 months ago. It's not like we're talking about generations ago in America. That was 11 months ago.

SELLERS: So, I mean, this is a pushback on you and Brianna because I hope it transforms the way that we do journalism in this country. I truly hope that this moment -- we've learned so much from it, whether or not it's how we engage with law enforcement, what it looks like to be in a courtroom, jury duty, et cetera. How law enforcement should interact with people of color or anybody given the basic level of their humanity.

But I hope journalists take a lesson from this as well. Like, stop listening and just taking and printing verbatim the propaganda or the B.S. that's spewed from some people in law enforcement around the country. I mean, people ran with that narrative. But for the video, we wouldn't have known.

And so I think that when we're dealing with these situations we have to be very cautious and careful about the messages that we take and espouse to the public. And I think that this is a reckoning moment for us all. I think this is truly a reckoning moment for the way that journalists cover these interactions with law enforcement.

BERMAN: Look, you can't just do police say or government officials say --

SELLERS: Correct.

BERMAN: -- all the time. You've got to dig. You've got to find out what really happened here. Sometimes you have to wait to get a true sense of what happened.

Bakari Sellers, we appreciate you being with us this morning.

SELLERS: Thank you.

BERMAN: To that end, we want to be clear on how we report this next story.

Just minutes before the Derek Chauvin verdict came down there was a deadly police shooting. It happened in Columbus, Ohio. Ma'khia Bryant, a 16-year-old in foster care, was fatally shot.

Now we know that Columbus police responded to the scene. They have released body camera video. And if you watch the video, there appears to be a confrontation between the people involved here before the shooting -- before the police officer fires four shots.

We're going to play the video for you. We want to warn you this video is disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLUMBUS, OHIO POLICE OFFICER: Hey, what's going on? What's going on? Hey, hey, hey. Get down. Get down. Get down. Get down.

(Gunshots)

(Bleep)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Again, just based on the video we are seeing, it appears that the 16-year-old girl, who was ultimately killed, was lunging at somebody else. We're trying to get much more information about that video and we'll talk to witnesses as well.

A crowd of protesters did arrive at the scene and the officer involved has been placed on leave. City officials are urging the public to be patient while the case is investigated.

Again, the issue is was this an incident where there was someone else about to be stabbed there? Was a life, perhaps, saved in this? Again, we're trying to find out more information -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Video captured by a 17-year-old allowed the world to witness George Floyd's murder. Would Derek Chauvin have been convicted without it? We are going to dig deeper on that, next.

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[05:43:11]

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DONALD WILLIAMS, WITNESSED GEORGE FLOYD'S DEATH: I can't say I expected it but I know that team that -- myself and the team that I was around, and witnesses -- you know, we all went out there and we told the truth. We told what we seen and, you know, if the world didn't see what we seen, then there was blinders still on. And I believe the blinders are off now because of the verdict that was made today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That is Donald Williams, who was one of the prosecution witnesses you may recognize from the Derek Chauvin trial, reacting to the verdict last night on CNN.

Darnella Frazier also testified. She was 17 when she recorded the video of George Floyd's murder.

And this was her reaction to the verdict on Facebook. She said, quote, "I just cried so hard this last hour. My heart was beating so fast. I was so anxious -- anxiety busting through the roof.

But to know guilty on all three charges, thank you, God. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. George Floyd, we did it. Justice has been served."

CNN senior writer on race and equality, Nicquel Terry Ellis, is with us now.

Could this verdict have happened, Nicquel, without the video and without all of these people standing up for George Floyd in court?

NICQUEL TERRY ELLIS, CNN SENIOR WRITER, RACE AND EQUALITY (via Cisco Webex): Brianna, I think we can only assume that this video evidence weighed very heavily on the jury's decision.

I mean, this is a young woman -- a 17-year-old girl who saw something that did not look right to her. She pulled out her camera phone and she began recording. After that, she posted the video to Facebook, which incited this entire racial reckoning -- these uprisings and protests across the country from people who were angry about what happened to George Floyd. And George Floyd has now become this symbol for racial equality.

[05:45:00]

So we can only assume that this made a difference in the trial and ultimately led to Derek Chauvin being convicted on all three counts.

This woman testified in court that she wished that she could have helped George Floyd in that moment, but little did she know the video that she took made a huge difference in this trial.

And when you think about it, so many Black families have watched their loved ones die at the hands of police and they have not gotten a conviction. They have not gotten justice.

Even going back as far back as Emmett Till, there were no police body cameras back then. There was no video evidence or cell phone videos to show this happening to people like Emmett Till.

So I think the hope in the Black community is that recording these incidents as they happen will lead to more justice for Black families that have to suffer police brutality.

KEILAR: I think that was one of the things that stood out so much, was the guilt that so many of these witnesses felt even though for them to intervene could have cost them their lives as well. And it made you wonder does Derek Chauvin feel the same guilt that these bystanders felt?

Nicquel, thank you so much for being with us.

ELLIS: Thank you.

BERMAN: This morning, many big names in corporate America speaking out after the Chauvin verdict, stressing more needs to be done to achieve justice for all in the U.S.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now with that -- Romans.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, EARLY START: Good morning.

You know, John, the Derek Chauvin verdict is the latest example of companies speaking up in this new era of purpose in the boardroom -- climate change, voting rights, civil rights.

The powerful Business Roundtable issuing a statement minutes after the verdict. "To ensure true justice and healing, our country needs to take steps to address its long history of racial inequality in law enforcement."

Statements from major corporations and business leaders -- Twitter, Wells Fargo, General Motors CEO Mary Barra.

And, Apple's Tim Cook quoting Martin Luther King, Jr. "Today's verdict was just, but as Dr. King wrote: 'Justice for Black people will not flow into society merely from court decisions nor from fountains of political oratory. Justice for Black people cannot be achieved without radical changes in the structure of our society." That's Tim Cook quoting Martin Luther King, Jr.

Businesses face pressure from their customers, from employees, from investors to take a stand, or at least not to stand back. Still, taking a stand is not without risk. Companies face pushback from both sides. The left, for not speaking up and doing more to address fundamental unfairness in American society. Pushback from the right for speaking too much.

Just last week, a show of force from hundreds of companies united against restrictive voting laws. And there's the big lie that led to the January insurrection. Some companies halted political donations to Republicans who objected to the Electoral College vote for President Joe Biden and others paused all political donations.

You know, it's a fine line to walk here. Some of these companies are also criticized for not taking a stance on, say, China, but they weigh in on U.S. domestic issues. Still, there's broad agreement in the corporate suite, you guys, this is a reckoning in America with a lot more work to be done.

BERMAN: Yes, they were all here this last year. You know, they're not in a vacuum. And I think the people who run these big corporations also went through the same things that every other American did for the last year.

ROMANS: Their employees really are demanding that they speak up and have a stance, by the way, and these statements were all ready within minutes of the verdict. So this is now a powerful part of the conversation they're having.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, thank you very much. KEILAR: A judge has decided to keep a Capitol rioter in jail, in part because of former President Trump. What Trump said and what he keeps saying that influenced this judge's decision.

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[05:52:49]

KEILAR: Developing this morning, a judge is keeping a Capitol rioter who allegedly attacked police in jail, citing the continued threat of violence because former President Trump keeps lying and saying that the election was stolen.

CNN's Whitney Wild is live for us in Washington with more on this. Whitney, tell us what this rioter is accused of and what's keeping him in jail.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's accused, with several other people, of assaulting Metropolitan Police officers in this really gruesome way. So he's accused of using a metal crutch to harm a Metropolitan Police officer. He's also accused of dragging this police officer face-down across a set of stairs and basically leaving him to be terrorized by other rioters.

And so there are a few elements here that the judge pointed out when he said look, I think you need to stay in jail, even though a prior judge had said he thought that this person could be let out. Again, that being reversed by this judge here in D.C.

So here is what the judge said about one of the reasons -- one of the glaring reasons he's keeping this person in jail.

"Former President Donald J. Trump continues to make forceful public comments about the 'stolen election,' chastising individuals who did not reject the supposedly illegitimate results that put the current administration in place. Such comments reflect the continued threat posed by individuals like Mr. Whitton."

So what this judge is saying is that he's actually factoring in -- factoring in these comments from former President Trump about this big lie we continue to talk about that this election was stolen.

Further, the judge pointed out during this hearing that this defendant has shown absolutely no remorse. He did not care -- didn't have any emotional regret when it comes to this officer's well-being following this hearing. So basically, what the judge was saying was you're not sorry, you're not remorseful, and you're staying in jail.

But, Brianna, what this really shows is that there are members of the judiciary who are viewing comments by former President Trump as literally -- not conceptually, but literally dangerous. And so -- and so dangerous, in fact, that one of these defendants must stay behind bars, Brianna.

KEILAR: We'll have to see if other judges feel the same way there.

[05:55:00]

Whitney, thank you so much.

Derek Chauvin led out of court in handcuffs after the guilty verdict. The sentence that he could be facing next.

BERMAN: And the sports world reacts. How former NBA legend Dwyane Wade reacted when the ruling came down.

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BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is a special edition of NEW DAY. I'm John Berman alongside.