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New Day

Biden Signals Heightened Police Scrutiny as DOJ Opens Minneapolis Probe; Biden Says, America on Track to Get Closer to Normal Life by July 4th. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired April 22, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: By Saturday afternoon all the way to 70. Cooler down in Atlanta with some rain showers in the morning hours, but even by Saturday, all the way to 71. Heat is on the horizon.

New Day continues right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: I'm John Berman alongside Brianna Keilar on this New Day.

Policing the police, the Biden administration moving for stricter oversight on police departments nationwide after the death of George Floyd.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: A verdict politicized, some conservatives suggest the Derek Chauvin jury was afraid to acquit him.

BERMAN: Keep your head up, a veteran police officer fired for his support of the teenager charged with killing two people at a Black Lives Matter protest.

KEILAR: And a new revelation from January 6th, officers allegedly told to ignore Trump supporters in the hours before they stormed the Capitol.

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Thursday, April 22nd, and the Biden administration is putting police on notice. Pressure is building for federal reforms following the Derek Chauvin guilty verdict. And now, the Department of Justice is launching a federal civil probe of the Minneapolis Police Department to determine if there's a pattern of unlawful policing. Attorney General Merrick Garland vowing to tackle systemic racism because he says change cannot wait.

KEILAR: And the issue is just so much larger than George Floyd. Today, family and friends will say goodbye to Daunte Wright in Minneapolis. He was shot and killed during a traffic stop. And two days ago, a 16-year-old girl was fatally shot by a police officer in Columbus, Ohio.

Let's bring in Jeremy Diamond at the White House.

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Brianna. President Biden made very clear during that -- his remarks in the wake of the Derek Chauvin verdict, that he wanted to move on police reform. He wanted to use this moment as a galvanizing moment to produce broader changes.

And we are seeing steam picking up on Capitol Hill in negotiations between Democrats and Republicans over what the future of police reform actually looks like. The George Floyd Justice in Policing Act, which Democrats passed in the House, does not seem to have at this moment enough Republican support to clear that ten-vote hurdle on the Republican side to be able to clear the filibuster.

And so, Senator Tim Scott, a Republican, who has been leading on the Republican side on police reform issues, he has now put forward a compromised proposal on this issue of qualified immunity, which protects police officers from lawsuits over police abuses, which could allow these negotiations to move forward.

We know that here at the White House, they are closely tracking this issue, and, already, though, regardless of what is happening in terms of broader police reform, we are seeing changes, the Department of Justice with the investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department, doing something that the Trump administration was not willing to do.

In fact, last week, the Justice Department not only is moving forward with this investigation but they also removed a Trump administration policy that prevented the use of these consent decrees. And so that could move forward not only in investigation, but changes actually in the Minneapolis Police Department enforced by these court-mandated consents. Brianna?

KEILAR: Jeremy, thank you very much.

BERMAN: So, new this morning, a Virginia Police officer has been fired after donating to a legal defense fund for Kyle Rittenhouse. That's the teenager accused of killing two men and wounding a third during street protests in Kenosha, Wisconsin last summer.

CNN's Laura Jarrett joins us now with much more on this. Laura, what's going on?

LAURA JARRETT, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Buckle up for this, guys. Remember this guy? That's 18-year-old Kyle Rittenhouse walking freely down the street, rifle by his side in Kenosha, Wisconsin, after shooting three people during protests last summer. Now, he wasn't arrested then and there. No, instead he went home safely that night.

Now, a former police officer in Southeastern Virginia has been fired after reports surfaced that he made a $25 donation to Rittenhouse on a crowd funding site last year. According to The Guardian Newspaper, Lieutenant William Kelly's donation included this note, quote, God bless, thank you for your courage, keep your head up, you've done nothing wrong.

Kelly, by the way, who was the number two in the internal affairs department within his own department, he used his city email address for that donation who thought it was unanimous. Now, the Norfolk City manager now calls those comments, quote, egregious and says, Kelly's actions erode trust between police and those communities that they're sworn to protect. CNN has reached out to Lieutenant Kelly and the police union for comment on this.

Meanwhile, Kyle Rittenhouse remains free on a $2 million bond because of that money that was raised by his supporters, guys.

[07:05:02]

So, you talk about anger, you talk about disparate treatment, this is why people are so angry in this country.

BERMAN: Wow. I mean, you look at that, and you say, wow, what was he thinking? Actually, I know what he was thinking. It's still stunning though. Thank you, Laura, for that.

KEILAR: Many are seeing the conviction of Derek Chauvin as a possible turning point in America's history of race and policing. So what lies ahead and how has the past brought us to this point?

Joining us now is Ibram Kendi, who is a contributing writer at The Atlantic and a director at the Boston University Center for Anti- Racist Research. Thank you so much for being with us.

And, first, I want to touch on what you've written, which is a great piece in The Atlantic and you so eloquently lay out your point, which is that defiance is not the problem and our compliance is not the solution. And I think this really encapsulates the conversation that is happening right now over so many of these different cases of black people being shot and killed by police.

Explain this to us because there's a refrain that if people were just to comply with what officers say, everything would be all right.

IBRAM X. KENDI, CONTRIBUTING WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, certainly, and the piece was inspired by Adam Toledo's killing. And on the video, Adam Toledo seems to comply with every single demand or order of the officer, but he was still killed. And I can relate to that personally because even when I'm pulled over or stopped by the police, when I comply fully, I still do not know whether I'm going to survive that encounter. And many people feel the same way.

But we've been told if we only comply, then everything will be all right. Indeed, there's a slogan that police have circulated that says, comply, don't die, and that's just not the case.

KEILAR: One, you mention the case of the Army officer in Virginia who is now suing police there who was pulled over. And one of the things that occurred to me watching what happened was that one of the things that may have saved his life was that there was something he did not comply with. He waited almost a mile to pull over into a very well lit gas station so that everything was captured very clearly on camera. And it seemed like he was trying to comply and yet in the end, he still was assaulted. KENDI: And in the end, a local police official stated that if he would have only complied earlier, then everything would have been okay, and a local police official also stated that no one got hurt, even though, of course, clearly this lieutenant was hurt.

And, indeed, if he would have complied earlier and pulled over in an area that -- in which it couldn't have been recorded, in which it wasn't clear, who knows what would have happened in that case.

KEILAR: Ibram, I want to ask you about this video of Ma'Khia Bryant being killed in Ohio by a police officer. When it is slow motion, you see that she was wielding a knife. But there are a lot of people who are not sure what to make of this, perhaps not the least because she was 16-year-old girl. And she is seen in the video lunging at one girl, then lunging at another. I wonder how you're seeing this video and what you say as people are considering the totality of what they're seeing on video and whether they should make distinctions between different incidents.

KENDI: So, when I look at that video, I ask myself, if that would have been a 16-year-old white girl in a wealthy suburban neighborhood, would the police officer have sought to disarm this girl? Would the police officer have sought to talk her down? Would the police officer have used lethal force? And it's hard for me to believe that that would have happened. It's hard for me to believe that that officer would not have responded differently for a different girl in a different community.

KEILAR: I look at that video and ask if that were my child or if my child were the child in pink, who was close to Ma'khia when she was shot, what would have happened? I think a lot of people are asking that.

In this particular case, LeBron James spoke out. He tweeted a picture of the -- an officer -- the officer who allegedly shot Ma'khia, and he said you're next. He has since deleted that tweet. What is your reaction to that? Does that add to the tension? Is that appropriate?

KENDI: I think it's important for us to recognize that people are very, very angry and upset and outraged.

[07:10:06]

And people, including LeBron James, you know, including others, they witnessed -- you know, I don't want to speak for LeBron, but I know many people feel as if they did not witness police work. They witnessed someone being killed and even potentially murdered.

And, of course, like with any other case, people are going to be outraged that someone did not come and de-escalate the situation, disarm that girl, so everyone could have gone home safely that evening.

KEILAR: It is -- there are many questions. The questions you are raising are the questions on the minds of so many Americans. Ibram, thank you so much for being with us this morning. KENDI: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: So, hours after the Derek Chauvin guilty verdict, Fox T.V. personality Tucker Carlson suggested the jury reached its decision not based on evidence but based on fear.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, FOX NEWS HOST: The jury in the Derek Chauvin trial came to a unanimous and unequivocal verdict this afternoon, please don't hurt us. The jury spoke for many in this country, everyone understood perfectly well the consequences of an acquittal in this case after nearly a year of burning and looting and murder by BLM, that was never in doubt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joining me now is former Republican Congressman and Presidential Candidate Joe Walsh. Joe, you called Tucker an elite twit after these comments. Why?

FMR. REP. JOE WALSH (R-IL): And, John, that wasn't strong enough. What a coward, what a coward Tucker Carlson is. JOHN, think about what Tucker said, what he said about that jury, that they were scared into making their verdict. What is Tucker really saying? He's saying that those 12 people were not smart enough, they were not decent enough, and they were not American enough to do what they were supposed to do, what they took an oath to do, follow the evidencing, pay attention to the evidence, and make a verdict based on the evidence.

Tucker didn't say that. He said the jury refused to do that. What a crappy thing to say and what a cowardly thing to say. It's despicable.

BERMAN: Let me ask you this though. He's not alone. Not exactly, right, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis wondering out loud whether the jury was intimidated into that decision. And I've heard other Republican elected officials say the same thing. Put on your Republican decoder ring for me. Why are they making this argument? Why is it important for them to justify the verdict like this and not just say he was guilty because the evidence said he was guilty?

WALSH: Because, John, the Republican Party is gone. They're all saying this because this is what Republican base voters believe. Look, I'm in an unusual position because even though I'm no longer a Republican, I engage with Republican base voters and Trump supporters every day. I hear from thousands of them every day.

John, what Tucker Carlson said was despicable, but damn near every Trump supporter agrees with him. Virtually, every Republican base voter believes that the only reason the jury decision made that decision was because of mob justice. So because Republican voters are there, John, you're going to see Republican politicians echoing what Tucker said.

Tucker is speaking for the Republican base, sadly. BERMAN: but there's a chicken and an egg thing here too, right? Does the Republican base think this because Tucker tells them to or does he say it because the Republican base thinks so? What I want to know is just why? Why is this opinion out here? I mean, we all watched the trial. We all saw the evidence. The jury took ten hours with no questions. It didn't seem like a hard decision for them.

WALSH: Because they need somebody to blame, John. I think these Republican voters need somebody to blame. They don't want to take that step even if privately they know Derek Chauvin did wrong, and many of them have told me that privately. They've got to latch onto something else to explain the verdict.

It's why they cling to Donald Trump. And when Tucker Carlson comes on and feeds them this disinformation, in a sense, John, these Republican voters are relieved. Now, they have somewhere where they can place their anger and their resentment.

BERMAN: What's so interesting, Joe, was that you say this was you ten years ago. You put out a statement -- and I really thought this was eye-opening. President Obama and Michelle Obama put out a statement after the Chauvin verdict. This is what they wrote. They wrote -- let's roll this here. They wrote that black Americans -- he said true justice requires we come to terms with the fact that black Americans are treated differently every day.

Now, what you wrote, Joe, is eight years ago when I was in Congress and Barack Obama was president, I would have reflectively railed against him for saying this.

[07:15:06]

Now, I agree with him and thank him for saying it.

So what has it that caused you to change and why is this something that maybe hard for other Republicans to see?

WALSH: John, I spent most of the past few years opening my eyes and listening, primarily talking to black Americans, black men and women, understanding -- getting to understand their experience. If Barack Obama had said that eight years ago, I probably would have jumped on him. John, if you would have told me eight years ago when I was in Congress that black lives matter, I probably would have reflexively fired back at you, no, John, all lives matter, but I've learned. I've opened my eyes. I was mistaken. I listened to black Americans, and I understand why it's important to say black lives matter.

Now, why don't more conservatives say that yet? Because they're in this -- they're in this sea of disinformation and conspiracy that doesn't allow them to. They've got people like Hannity and Tucker Carlson riling them up every day, John. I used to be in that business, conservative talk radio. It's all about pissing off your audience, and that's what Tucker and Hannity and all the rest of them do. It's a real problem for the whole country.

BERMAN: Joe Walsh, we appreciate you coming on with us. Thanks so much.

WALSH: Thanks, John.

KEILAR: Four months after the insurrection, we are uncovering an incendiary radio broadcast from that day. You will hear the order given just hours before the pro-Trump mob attacked.

BERMAN: And with half of the adults in the U.S. now at least partially vaccinated, how long do we have to continue wearing masks and social distancing outside? Dr. Sanjay Gupta weighs in on the big debate, next.

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[07:20:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: Back on March 11th, I outlined a vision of what America could look like by the 4th of July, an America that was much closer to normal life that we left behind more than a year ago. We remain on track for that goal. In the weeks since then, more than 120 million shots have been given since I announced the July 4th proposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: President Biden announcing that the country remains on track to getting life closer to normal by Independence Day. The president also announcing the milestone of 200 million coronavirus vaccines administered within his first 100 days in office.

Let's talk more now with our CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Sanjay Gupta. Okay. So, I mean, this is quite the milestone, 200 million doses administered. But where does that put us in terms of overall vaccine strategy?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, first of all, just in terms of pace, it took months essentially to 100 million and then another month to get to 200 million. Let me show you the age breakdown because I think this is the strategy part of things. We know that older people were more likely to get vaccinated first. Now people 65 and older, about 60 percent of them have been fully vaccinated. 80 percent have at least one shot, which means in the next few weeks, you'll see people fully vaccinated going up to 80 percent.

It's the younger populations, not surprisingly, that still have to make up some of the shortfall here to get us to that herd or community immunity.

That was the strategy. It's sort of playing. The big question is are those younger groups in particular going to get vaccinated and will there be an authorized vaccine even for people younger, which looks promising, people 12 to 15, they may get an authorized vaccine over the next few weeks. BERMAN: I can't wait for that. As a parent of a 14-year-old, Sanjay, I know you have kids too falling on that group, so that would be a terrific news.

We have some viewer questions for you, Sanjay, the first one is honestly, I think, one of the most asked questions now and it's very in the public discourse. This question is do we still need to wear masks outside, particularly, Sanjay, if you're vaccinated? Why and should vaccinated people still wear masks outside?

GUPT: Yes. So let me -- let me try and answer it this way. I think that the vast majority of viral transmission is not happening outside. In fact, we put together some of the numbers. We've talked about the fact that, overall, if you look in new cases of people becoming infected, fewer than 10 percent are happening outdoors.

And, John, you may remember, this is a statistic we shared from before, actually looking at viral transmission we're finding that it's about close to 19 times less likely to happen outdoors versus indoors. So what are the factors then that make that different? I'd say for the most part, you don't need to wear a mask outdoors.

There's countries around the world like Israel that says you no longer need to do that. I think you just have got to use common sense. I mean, the virus is contagious. It doesn't like to be outdoors or it doesn't like to be in the sunlight. But if you're closely clustered together, if there's lots of people in a single area, if you're going to be there for long periods of time.

And a very important caveat is what is the sort of viral transmission in your area? If there's a lot of virus spreading in your area, a lot of tests, a high positivity, you may consider that then if you're going to be in this sort of situation. The real question you're trying to answer, and there's a lot of factors that go into this, what is the likelihood I'm going to breathe in someone else's air? That's basically it. The number of people, type of setting, obviously, indoors versus outdoors, and what is the overall viral spread in their community.

KEILAR: I know that was a viewer question, but maybe I slipped that in or we're asking for a viewer.

BERMAN: Brianna Keilar from Washington, D.C., asks --

KEILAR: I do view. Also this is a question a lot of people have, another viewer question, and I think it's one that maybe we wouldn't have entertained months ago, but now people are getting vaccinated.

[07:25:07]

So how safe is it to sit inside a restaurant?

GUPTA: Yes, this is a big one as well. I think it's one of the most common question I get from my own family and friends. The thing about indoor dining still, if it's truly indoors, is that the ventilation in there is a big question. This gets back to what I was talking about, how likely are you to breathe in someone else's air.

Now, if everyone's been vaccinated, then I think you're in a much different position. People are not likely to get sick and they're not likely to be spreading the virus. But I think that when you're going to indoor dining, if you're in an area of the country where there's a lot of virus spreading, you're obviously coming across lots of different households and you obviously have to remove your mask to eat and drink. So that's the biggest concern.

I think most places in the country still, certainly full capacity indoor dining, I can't imagine that it would be advised. I mean, it's just still too risky. There's still too great a chance that you're going to actually potentially be exposed to the virus. I think limited capacity and looking at what the virus is doing in your community.

Where I live, for example, I think it would be hard to justify full capacity indoor dining. Maybe over the next few months, we'll get to that point or maybe even a few weeks into the summer, but we're not quite there yet.

BERMAN: So, Sanjay, I asked the surgeon general just the other day. If people don't get vaccinated, if we don't get the numbers where they should be and people still are hesitant, will it mean the pandemic will last longer?

GUPTA: Yes. So this is interesting. you know, it's an interesting point. What we can see -- and this could be a real model -- is that we may still dip into herd immunity over the summer in part because, you know, the virus will just start to dissipate a little bit with the warmer weather, more people being outside, you may not get as much spread. But we could see a resurgence then in the fall.

People think of this herd or community immunity as the final destination, which we hope it is, but I i's possible that you can sort of dip in and out of it as well, which is why over these next few months, it's so important to get as many people vaccinated as possible.

I will throw one more thing into the mix, a nuance that I think is important. We keep measuring this by the number of vaccinations, which is a very reasonable measure. The real question we're trying to ask is how many people out there have immunity to this virus? And that is made up of people who have been vaccinated but also people who had been previously infected.

Now, that's probably a pretty significant number. We don't know really still how many people have been previously infected because we've never had adequate testing and we still don't. But people say it's probably three times the official number, 2.5 to three times the official number. So you may be have 80 to 100 million people who have immunity from having been previously infected.

Another layer of nuance, some of those people have then become vaccinated, so you can't count them twice. There's a lot wrapped into it, all of it to say vaccination numbers plus a degree of natural immunity is actually going to be helpful. I'm not suggesting anyone get infected to get immunity, but I'm saying it's probably going to be helpful when you add these numbers together.

KEILAR: The infection rate will tell us, but it is sort of a problem to rely on that, Sanjay. Thank you so much. So many important questions we still have. Great to see you.

Were police officers assigned to protect the Capitol on January 6th told to ignore the threat of Trump supporters? We'll have details on the stunning new evidence coming up.

BERMAN: Senator Lindsey Graham blasting the push for D.C. statehood as a power grab. So where was he the last four years of power grabs in the Senate and from the former president?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:00]