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New Day

Soon, FDA Decides Fate of J&J Vaccine after Isolated Blood Clots; How to Govern with America's Descent into Warring Tribes; A Long, Strange Trip, the History of Climate Change Denial. Aired 7- 7:30a ET

Aired April 23, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Clarke and his family, may he rest in peace.

Celtics Coach Brad Stevens spoke about the loss of the Boston native after last night's game.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD STEVENS, BOSTON CELTICS HEAD COACH: I didn't -- I never met him. My son looks up to him and hard to talk about a basketball game with even the idea that's floating out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MANNO: Our thoughts are certainly with his family.

In Dallas last night, Lakers Star Anthony Davis returning to the court for the first time since early February, the star missed 30 games dealing with leg injuries. Understandably, a little bit of rust there, Davis finishing with four points after playing limited minutes in the loss against to the Mavericks. But the defending champs is all about getting healthy for the playoffs next month. Of course, LeBron James still out indefinitely after suffering a high ankle sprain last month.

New Day continues right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman on this New Day.

Decision day for the CDC, will Johnson & Johnson's coronavirus vaccine get the green light despite these concerns over blood clots?

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Capitol Police pushing back on reports that officers were told to avoid pro-Trump protesters on the day of the deadly insurrection.

KEILAR: Plus, brand new details on the civil war within the Republican Party, the insults directed at Congresswoman Liz Cheney that left other women horrified.

BERMAN: And a historic launch, moments ago, rocketing four astronauts to the International Space Station, what this mission means for the future of space travel.

KEILAR: Welcome to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Friday, April 23rd, and you are looking at video of the SpaceX launch from the last hour. This is the Crew 2 carrying two NASA astronauts as well as two international space flyers and for the first time they are working with a used rocket and capsule. Docking with the International Space Station is expected to take place around this time tomorrow and we are expecting an update from NASA within the hour on the success of the mission and what is next.

BERMAN: Undeniably cool.

Now, to the other big story this morning, just hours from now, the CDC advisers will meet to discuss the future of Johnson & Johnson's coronavirus vaccine. CNN has learned they will hear about any additional issues with blood clotting, including another suspected fatal case in Oregon. Six previous cases out of 7 million doses prompted the CDC and the FDA to recommend suspension of the J&J vaccination.

Joining us now to discuss this, Dr. Chris Pernell, she's a public health physician and fellow of the American College of Preventative Medicine. It's great to see you in person here, thanks for coming in.

DR. CHRIS PERNELL, PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN: Good to see you.

BERMAN: So, look, Dr. Anthony Fauci, he addressed what he thinks will happen with Johnson & Johnson today based on what happened in Europe. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: They will allow it to be given because they feel that the risk of COVID-19 far outweighs the very rare, rare occurrence of this serious adverse event. So they're letting the vaccine go out with a warning to people about what to look for, about what the risk is.

I wouldn't be surprised though -- again, I don't want to get ahead of their decision, that's up to them -- but I wouldn't be surprised if they came out with something similar to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, Doctor, what do you think about that? What do you think it is that we're likely to see today?

PERNELL: I agree with Dr. Fauci. Look, I don't want to prejudge or preemptively say what they're going to do, but let's talk about what's being considered. Is this reason to withdraw Johnson & Johnson from the market altogether? I don't think so. What we do know is that the cases have been very rare.

We also know that those cases predominantly occurred in women 18 to 48. It occurred anywhere from one week to two weeks after administration of the dose. So those are the type of warnings that you would likely see.

And what's most important is for providers to know what actually has been happening, because you do treat this occurrence differently than you would treat other blood clots.

KEILAR: Let's talk about pregnant women and the vaccine. I have a bunch of pregnant friends right now and this is a huge topic of conversation. Should they take the vaccine? You hear doctors say yes, New England Journal of Medicine suggesting that Pfizer and Moderna, the vaccines do not appear to pose serious risk during pregnancy. But at the same time it is very difficult for someone who is pregnant sometimes to introduce something that is new, right? So what do you say to them?

PERNELL: Look, I just had this conversation last night. I had a dear friend reach out to me by text whose daughter is pregnant and she said, should my daughter consider taking this vaccine? I told her, yes.

[07:05:00]

That is the best informed decision that we can make at this point. That's shared decision-making between a pregnant woman or a pregnant person and her physician because we know that coronavirus in pregnant women can be more severe, lead to preterm labor, lead to complications with pregnancy and even maternal death. So the ability to protect pregnant women is something that we want to be able to do.

KEILAR: And the NBA, it's interesting, we learn a lot from looking at kind of these different groups.

PERNELL: Yes, we do.

KEILAR: The NBA study suggests that people who recover from COVID but are still testing positive actually may not be contagious.

PERNELL: Right. So, you see this happen. You see people who are persistently positive. But it's important to know these people don't have active symptoms, meaning that they've completed the isolation period, they recovered, they're not having a fever but may test positive. What we know is that probably is due to viral shedding. You have non-replicating virus that's still in a person's body but that person is not transmitting the virus.

What is important about this study is that it gives us real data and that's what we need, really work data that could continue to make informed decisions.

BERMAN: But, Dr. Pernell, after dropping and dropping and dropping and dropping, after people started getting vaccinated, cases began rising again about a month ago. But if you look at the seven-day average, they just started to come back down again. And if you look at Michigan, they started to come down a fair amount. how excited can I let myself get over this? It seems good that they're dropping.

PERNELL: It is good, right? Let's all take a deep breath and let's all continue to do what we've doing so far, walk hand in hand with the science and the data. What we know is that when we do those public health measures that work, when we do the physical distancing, when we do the masking, when we avoid the crowded, cramped indoor spaces and then when we continue to vaccinate all Americans, we will continue to see these numbers move in the right direction, but we cannot afford to let up.

BERMAN: Let's hope this time they get really far down, maybe under 10,000 cases a day, which I know Dr. Fauci wants to see. Dr. Pernell, great to see you, thanks for coming in.

KEILAR: It is wonderful to see you in person. I feel you have shepherded me through the crisis here over the past year, so it's great to see you.

PERNELL: Good to see you too.

BERMAN: All right. We have an update on a story we first brought you yesterday morning. U.S. Capitol Police are disputing an account of a radio broadcast hours before the insurrection that instructed units to only monitor for anti-Trump agitators and not pro-Trump protesters. The department claims the radio call has been misquoted.

CNN's Whitney Wild live in Washington with this development. Whitney, what have you learned?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, a lot of back and forth yesterday for me and my colleague, Zack Cohen, trying to figure out what exactly the deal is here. So, Capitol Police telling us that Representative Zoe Lofgren's account of this radio transmission, that's not exactly how it happened. They say when you look at the words in the greater context, in the totality of what they knew that day, that it really shows that, in fact, USDP was not only looking for anti-Trump protesters. Here is the quote from Capitol Police we got yesterday.

The radio call has been misquoted and is lacking full and necessary context. Officers were also instructed to look out for potential counterdemonstrators because locations with counterdemonstrators -- excuse me, because locations with counterdemonstrators could be where clashes between the two groups of demonstrators occur.

And they go on to say in November and December of 2020, that actually happened. So they thought that looking out for the clashes was a logical way to make sure that everybody was safe because that's what they'd seen in the past.

However, Representative Lofgren maintains that this basically is indicative that even though they had all of these evidence to suggest that people in the pro-Trump crowd could cause violence, they were still inappropriately and without evidence really looking for these clashes with anti-Trump people. And that was the wrong mindset to go into this day with.

So, John, a lot of back and forth yesterday but, again, Capitol Hill Police saying when you look at the totality of the situation, they were not only looking for anti-Trump people. And their statement actually went on to say that there was a look out for a pro-Trump person they were concerned was carrying a weapon, John.

BERMAN: All right, an interesting development. We know you'll keep digging on this. Whitney Wild, thanks so much for your reporting. Thanks for being with us.

KEILAR: This morning, we're learning more about what went on behind closed doors when Trump-supporting House Republicans unleashed on Wyoming Congresswoman Liz Cheney for denouncing Trump's role in the insurrection. From a New York Times magazine article, including sexist remarks by a colleague, it says this, Ralph Norman of South Carolina expressed disappointment in her vote but the other thing that bothers me, Liz, he went on is your attitude. You have got a defiant attitude.

Likening the situation to a football game, Mike Kelly of Pennsylvania lamented, you look up into the stands and see your girlfriend on the opposition side, that's one hell of a tough thing to swallow. She's not your girlfriend, a female colleague yelled out.

Cheney stood by her vote to impeach Trump, but as many of her colleagues voice their dissatisfaction.

[07:10:05]

But when it came to a vote to remove her from leadership, she easily won with two thirds majority.

Let's talk about this now with Amanda Carpenter, who is our CNN Political Commentator and former Communications Director for Senator Ted Cruz.

This is -- I mean, Amanda, when you listen to that in that article, the Republican Party, of course, overwhelmingly male, as far as elected officials in Congress, what do you think about these sexist comments?

AMANDA CARPENTER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, the sexist comments are really gross, but what is infuriating is when you consider the context of this meeting. Liz Cheney was in an extremely dangerous position. Before the rioters stormed the Capitol, Donald Trump stood at that rally said the Liz Cheney's of the world, we need to get rid of her.

A lot of people were in physical danger that day, but Liz Cheney had a target on her back because the president spoke her by name and because she objected to the president's role in fomenting that insurrection, she decided that she was going to impeach him. She was going to speak out.

And so she went in that room and her colleagues didn't have her back. They mocked her, they called her a girlfriend. And what is so impressive, and I am so happy that Robert (INAUDIBLE) wrote this profile is that she didn't flinch. She did not budge an inch.

And what this shows me is that Liz Cheney is an incredible political figure. She's not only a woman in the boys club of GOP leadership but she's one who can take on Trump and win, right? Like that's the thing that's been missing. We had a lot of people who wanted to take on Trump but eventually they decide it's too hard, they throw up their hands, they resign, and she said, no. I'm going to stand my ground and I'm going to be here standing here longer than you.

BERMAN: I have to say, the way they chose to go after her though, the reference to seeing a girlfriend in the stands, the reference that Robert keeps on referring to in his article about her attitude, it felt to me like this criticism you often hear in society, this sexist criticism, oh, they really need to smile more. It felt like that to me, Amanda.

CARPENTER: Yes. I mean, this is her just not falling in line and waving the red flag. I mean, really, it's the tribal partisan politics where we back our team no matter what. It's why we're in such a terrible place. And there is this feeling and you hear it expressed by people like Josh Hawley, for example, who objected to the certification of Biden's election, which was the kindle that sparked the insurrection, saying, even though I don't have proof of widespread voter fraud, it is my job to reflect the will of my voters and give them a voice even when they're wrong. No. That is not what leadership is. Leadership is standing and doing what is right and recognizing the ties that actually do bind our democracy and should unite us. That is what leadership is. And that is the test that Liz Cheney in that meeting passed with flying colors.

BERMAN: Amanda Carpenter, great to have your perspective this morning. Thanks for being with us this morning.

CARPENTER: Thanks.

BERMAN: So, a lot of people look at where we are in the country and say we are more divided than we have ever been. How can President Biden navigate this gridlock and the lessons we can learn from America's longest war?

KEILAR: And are we seeing the launch of the post-pandemic recovery when it comes to the economy? Christine Romans will be here with some key signs of success, coming up.

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[07:15:00]

BERMAN: This morning, a stunning quote that raises questions about where we are going as a country. New York Times Columnist Thomas Friedman was remembering a trip he made to Afghanistan 20 years ago. It's a wonderful piece. But almost as an aside, he observed, quote, I wondered if we become more like the Afghans and not the Afghans more like us. Our diversity is only our strength as long as we can forge out of many, one. But, lately, our parties and politics have become so tribalized, it's not so clear anymore that we can do that.

Joining us now is Tom Friedman, he's also the author of the bestselling book, From Beirut to Jerusalem. Tom, thanks so much for being with us.

When I read that piece, which, again, is about Afghanistan, when I read that line, I really just stepped back and went, oh my, oh my. It's an incredible comment on where we are if we are headed in that direction.

TOM FRIEDMAN, COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Well, John, first of all, thanks for having me. And it's something I've been feeling for a long time because I really began my journalism career covering the civil war in Lebanon and then the wider Middle East. And what I've seen over the last 40 years is that the Middle East has followed me home. We have become Sunnis and Shia, we call them Democrats and Republicans. But it's the same kind of politics, of tribal politics, and the first law of tribal politics is rule or die, rule or die. Either I'm in power or I'm dead.

I was listening to the show before I came on and you were talking about the Capitol insurrection. That was really a manifestation of rule or die politics. And that's not something we've had in this country before and it's something we want to stop.

BERMAN: And I want to draw a distinction here, because there's a difference between partisan and party politics. And Nate Cohn wrote about this in The New York Times also, and sectarianism and what you're talking about. This is a whole different level you see us at right now.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, because sectarianism is something you can't compromise. If I'm a Shiite or Sunni, I have got to stand with my tribe. And when we go down that road, it is really, really dangerous.

I sort of experienced this story from both, John, because I was actually born a couple miles from where George Floyd was murdered. I'm from Minneapolis. And I've seen this, you know, kind of tribalism now go all the way from Beirut and the Middle East, back home to where I live and how we bring ourselves together as a country again, it is so important.

[07:20:05]

One of my teachers, Dove Seidmund (ph), likes to say, trust is the only legal performance enhancing drug. Trust is the only legal performance enhancing drug. When there's trust in the room, take a hard floor. You can dunk a basketball even if you're a short guy like me off a hard floor. But if there's no trust, it's like the Syrian Desert, You can't jump a millimeter.

BERMAN: One of the things that used to bring us together was national tragedy or giant events, but I'm not even sure that is the case anymore. Look at the pandemic, almost from the minute it happened, it wasn't the whole nation coming together to deal with it, it was people going to their sides to deal with it. Same thing with the verdict in the Derek Chauvin case, I mean, you have people like Tucker Carlson also all of a sudden saying the jury was scared, that's why they reached the verdict. Instead of coming together, we can't even come together on the obvious points. FRIEDMAN: Well, you have two things that are happening, it seems to me. One, we're going through a gigantic social cultural transformation from white majority country to minority majority country. And it's happening at a time of social networks that have made it both profitable and politically beneficial to disinform people and divide people. That's what Tucker Carlson is doing, all of these people, that's profitable what they're doing. The fact that we've been talking about him brings more people to his show. We never had that combination together.

One of my favorite songs, it was a them on my last book, Thank You for Being Late, is by Brandi Carlile. The song is called the Eye, E-Y-E. And the main refrain is, I wrapped your love around me like a chain but I never was afraid that it would die. You can dance in a hurricane but only if you're standing in the eye. We're in a hurricane now, economic, technological, and social transformation. The eye is the healthy community. It moves with the storm but it's a place where people can feel connected, protected, and respected. That has to be the building block back to a normal and stable America.

BERMAN: I have got to let you go, but in a word who fixes this?

FRIEDMAN: Well, I think Joe Biden is off to a good start but he can't do it alone. He has got to have Republican partners.

BERMAN: Tom Friedman, I really appreciate you coming in, waking up this morning for us. It's such a terrific column, a big fan of your work, nice to see you.

FRIEDMAN: Thanks so much.

KEILAR: Now, with all of the attention on policing and police reform in the U.S. right now, it's easy to forget the way the American police operate, it's not the only way to do it. So we thought it would be a good reminder to ask a few of our correspondents around the world to explain how policing is done where they are.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Nick Paton Walsh in London, the United Kingdom, where police do not have firearms as standard issue. In fact, they call up armed support when they need it. You do often see armed officers at high-profile buildings, like government officers or airports, but the number of people killed every year by police firearms is exceptionally low. Most years, you can count it on just one hand.

And, in fact, between March 2019 and March 2020, police fired their weapons only five times. You heard that right, five times. And that contributes to a staggeringly low instance of deaths across the United Kingdom and England and Wales, only 26 people died from guns that year.

PAULA NEWTON, CNN INTERNATINAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Paula Newton in Canada, where according to one recent study, the killing of civilians by police is three times more likely in the United States than it is here in Canada. Now, there could be many reasons for that. One is, according to Canadian statistics, only 3 percent of violent crimes actually involves a firearm. There are stricter gun control rules here in terms of who can have a gun, how it is stored, even how it's transported.

Now, there is nuance though here in Canada as well, studies show that police involvement, violent police interactions are more likely involving racialized and indigenous Canadians than they are whites.

ANGUS WATSON, CNN PRODUCER: I'm Angus Watson in Australia where police routinely carry firearms and are trained to use them as a last resort. Despite that, Australians are 14 times less likely to be shot by police officers than people in the U.S. 82 Australians were shot by police officers in the decade leading up to 2017. At least one police officer will stand trial for murder this year, a police constable Zachary Rolf, accused of shooting an unarmed indigenous teenager in 2019. He maintains his innocence.

KEILAR: In the past hour, Japan declared a coronavirus emergency rolling out some new restrictions. So what does this mean for the already delayed Olympics?

BERMAN: And when you believe there was a time not that long ago when Republicans not only believed in climate change, they also thought it was a bad thing. A Reality Check, next.

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[07:25:00]

KEILAR: President Biden used this Earth Day to commit the U.S. to cutting green house gas emissions in half by 2030. Prominent Republicans blasted the move but it was not that long ago when they would have cheered him on.

John Avlon is here with our Reality Check.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That's right. This Earth Day, President Joe Biden did convene a world climate summit, that the U.S. reducing carbon emissions by more than 50 percent by the end of the decade.

This is a BFD, as Biden might say, especially after the denialism of the other guy. Even Senator Lindsey Graham got into the mood by making a big announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I've come to conclude that climate change is real.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Of course, this conversion is the exception rather than the rule. But confronting the reality of climate crisis wasn't always a partisan issue. So let's step back for a brief history of climate change awareness and denial. It was back in 1965 that President Lyndon Johnson received the first official warning that pollutants have altered on a global scale carbon dioxide in the air. 12 years later, scientists at Exxon and J.F. Black (ph) warned of a dangerous green house effect related to fossil fuels in an internal company memo.

[07:30:01]

In 1980, a climate expert told the American Petroleum Institute that a likely rise in temperatures could have long-term globally catastrophic effects.