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New Day

Judge Grants Release to Riot Suspect; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) Is Interviewed about Carville, Facebook, and her New Book; Juror from Chauvin Case Speaks Out; Olympics Ban on Protests. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired April 28, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: That Donald Trump won the election, the whole basis for why he and others entered the Capitol.

JOSEPH D. MCBRIDE, ATTORNEY FOR RICHARD "BIGO" BARNETT: Richard Barnett, like millions of other people, clearly voted for Donald Trump during the November election. Richard Barnett, like millions of other people, believed at the time that the election was stolen from the American public, hence his heading to Washington, D.C., to exercise his First Amendment right to free speech, to object to what he believed was an improper result.

Does he still believe that at -- at this point in time? I haven't asked him because it really isn't relevant to his case.

What's relevant to his case is that he is now out of -- he is no longer detained. We will be able to have an intelligent discussions -- intelligent discussions with him going forward. We've been systematically denied that opportunity. The conditions under which he was confined were horrific. And he is now out and we will been -- we will be able to form an intelligent defense going forward.

KEILAR: In one court filing, you compare what happened in Washington, D.C., on January 6th to Black Lives Matter protests in Minneapolis after the death of George Floyd.

How do you square that, especially knowing now that George Floyd's death was murder. That an officer has been convicted for his murder. Is that really a valid comparison?

MCBRIDE: Sure. So the motion to which you are referring, we explicitly state that George Floyd was murdered by the police on national TV. And his murder on TV provoked a massive reaction.

Now, anybody who was alive or able to look at --

KEILAR: But that actually happened. Joseph, that actually happened.

MCBRIDE: Uh-huh.

KEILAR: He was murdered.

MCBRIDE: Yes, that happened.

KEILAR: Donald Trump was not elected president.

MCBRIDE: We -- so we acknowledge the fact that George Floyd was murdered. We support the protest, as does Richard Barnett in George Floyd's name because they are both necessary and vital to the -- to addressing the ongoing issue of police brutality against black and Latino men and other minorities in this country.

Now, we made very -- we were very sure not to equivocate the experience and the issues regarding George Floyd's unfortunate passing with those of the Capitol situation. However, when you look at 2020, you cannot look at it in a vacuum. There was a stream of protests, some peaceful, some violent, that took place all over the United States of America. Cops were fire bombed, police were fire bombed, and in those cases, those violent cases, federal courts have routinely let those people out pretrial. We argued that our client was entitled to be released pretrial because his participation in the January 6th events was not violent.

KEILAR: Joseph McBride and Steve Metcalf, I appreciate both of you coming on. Thanks for being with us this morning.

MCBRIDE: Thank you very much.

STEVEN METCALF, CO-COUNSEL FOR RICHARD "BIGO" BARNETT: Thanks for having us.

KEILAR: Just ahead, what happens if Facebook --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm going to have to do --

KEILAR: Sorry.

BERMAN: No, go ahead, keep taking.

KEILAR: OK, no -- no, no ventriloquism.

BERMAN: I'll do like the talking hard. Just --

KEILAR: I'm used to anchoring by myself and now I have friends to play with, so -- and now I'm stealing their toys. That's what happens.

BERMAN: Look, first of all, that was a great interview and I think it was important what you said about what words are and are never funny. So I thought that was an important point.

KEILAR: That sort of -- it sticks out, I think, when you're -- you're a woman and you've been called that. It's like, that's not funny. Sorry.

BERMAN: With your permission, I'm going to read this.

KEILAR: Yes, please do so.

BERMAN: All right, what happens if Facebook decides to reverse its ban on the former president? And why James Carville says the Democrats have a wokeness problem.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:38:00]

BERMAN: A longtime Democratic strategist has a blunt warning for the party, the PC culture of wokeness could be costly in the next election. That's from James Carville in an eye-grabbing new interview. He says, wokeness is a problem and everyone knows it. It's hard to talk to anybody today -- and I talk to lots of people in the Democratic Party -- who doesn't say this. But they don't want to say it out loud because they'll get clobbered or canceled.

Joining me now is Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. She is the author of a new book "Antitrust: Taking on Monopoly Power from the Gilded Age to the Digital Age."

Senator, congratulations on the new book, and we're going to talk about that in just a second.

First, though, what James Carville says about wokeness, he says everyone he talks to agrees.

Do you agree that it's a problem?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): James Carville is outspoken and an incredibly interesting person and has this relentless focus on the economy. And I agree with him on that.

At the same time, look at what Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have done. I think you're going to hear about it a lot tonight. They've been able to combine economic focus with taking on a number of these social issues, like voting reform, something that the For the People Act and making sure voting rights are strong. Yes, we have to do something on police reform. I know that. George Floyd died in my state. So I mind saying you can do both things at once.

BERMAN: But -- but what he's says is -- but what he says is saying, defund the police --

KLOBUCHAR: Of course not. I don't think -- ask Joe Biden. He's been very clear about that. I've been very clear. I am not one bit in favor of defunding the police, I just want to see reform.

So you're always going to have a lot of different voices in the Democratic Party. And I think that place, when you look at how we just won the state of Georgia, how Joe Biden overwhelmingly won the election, a lot of people found a place in our tent because they were suffering from the economy, they were out of work because of the pandemic and they needed a vaccine.

And what has happened in the last 100 days? It's been a complete different spirit that is uniting our country. It may not be uniting Congress -- I'm not naive about that -- but I can feel it out there where people see hope, they see a lighthouse on the horizon.

[08:40:07]

BERMAN: Let me ask you about your book, because I think it will work us back to the news of the moment here.

This new book, you say you want to make antitrust cool again. Really?

KLOBUCHAR: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, how?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, because you have people all over this country that are starting to say, how come it costs so much to get cable? Why did the Epipen prices go way up like they did? Or why is insulin so expensive? Or why -- how come we don't have any privacy or misinformation, real controls on social media? Well, it's because when you have monopolies, they have no incentive to do those things.

I think Exhibit A is when Facebook goes out and buys Instagram and WhatsApp, those companies could have been competitors to them. Maybe they would have developed those bells and whistles. But instead, we have gateway companies, the biggest companies the world has ever known. And if you look at American history, which I try to tell with some fun, you look at the inventor of the Monopoly game, a woman who was actually against monopolies, or another woman named Ida Tarbell who took on Standard Oil. There's a history of rejuvinization of capitalism.

I was in the private sector for 14 years. I believe in entrepreneurship and capitalism. But I also believe you need a check on it. And that's what the antitrust laws are.

BERMAN: You talk about the absolute power of Facebook. The Facebook oversight board will soon decide whether to lift the ban on former President Trump posting on Facebook.

What do you think they should decide?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I believe that this is someone who has fomented lies, he's someone that, again, still is not giving any credence to the election, and when you look at what has happened because of his beliefs, including the insurrection and, as you know, I voted for impeachment, no. But, you know, my focus is not --

BERMAN: You say -- you say no it shouldn't lift -- they shouldn't lift the ban.

KLOBUCHAR: No, I don't think so.

BERMAN: But isn't that an example -- then doesn't that run counter to what you're concerned about, which is the absolute power of an organization?

KLOBUCHAR: No. I see what you mean. No, I am very focused on misinformation.

BERMAN: OK. KLOBUCHAR: And he is one of the chief conveyors of misinformation.

And I also think we should have some controls. I'm someone who has sponsored, along with Senator Mark Warner and Mazie Hirono, a bill that says we should have limits on complete blanket immunity for the social media companies when there is literally misinformation being spouted out there.

BERMAN: You talk about misinformation. It is interesting because something's happened in really the last few days where you've seen articles in "The New York Post" which say things that are just not true, right, that -- that all these books written by Kamala Harris are being given out as welcome gifts to migrants. You see the ridiculous BS lies about the Biden administration being against red meat. But you see them published and then you see elected officials repeating them.

I know you think social media has a role in this, but how do you -- how do you fight that kind of -- just -- it's just -- these lies?

KLOBUCHAR: First of all, you have to have a strong press. And I know those examples you used were some elements of publications. But right now we're seeing our local newspapers just broken down. We're seeing so many of them go away. And actually part of that is because they're not getting paid for content when it's displayed on social media. They're not being paid to the point where they can be compensated for the work they're doing. You don't see as much in the local areas investigative report. That's a bipartisan agreement on that. I have a bill with Senator Kennedy and there's House sponsors as well with David Cicilline and Representative Buck that basically says, no, the media organizations should be able to bargain together for the price of content.

So I think one answer to that is strong news. I think another answer to that is citizens and leaders getting out there, calling people out when they are spouting lies, and that's one of the reasons I'm on your show. It's not easy to take on monopolies.

BERMAN: Right.

KLOBUCHAR: It's not fair that the app stores are controlled by two companies, Apple and Google. And so unless someone talks about it and people come with me, it's really hard to take on big trillion-dollar companies by yourself. That's why I wrote the book.

BERMAN: Congratulations -- congratulations on the new book. It's getting really, really interesting, good reviews.

KLOBUCHAR: Over -- over 100 cartoons, if that -- if you want to see those.

BERMAN: And make antitrust fun. I will say, it's the most fun I've ever had with antitrust.

Senator Amy Klobuchar -- you know, and that's a high bar -- thanks so much for being with us. I appreciate it.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: So we are just hearing for the first time from one of the jurors who found Derek Chauvin guilty of George Floyd's murder. He reveals the moment he knew it was all over for Chauvin's defense, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:48:41]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON MITCHELL, JUROR 52 IN THE DEREK CHAUVIN TRIAL: His name is going to live on. His legacy is now cemented in history. It's now become so much bigger than him as an individual. He's now become almost -- he's become a legacy. And it's a legacy that will forever be here and is forever going to -- it will hopefully create some change within society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So that was Brandon Mitchell, who was juror number 52 in the Derek Chauvin trial, speaking out for the first time about the legacy that George Floyd has left behind. A legacy that Mitchell ultimately solidified. Mitchell told CNN's Adrienne Broaddus last night that his time on the jury, quote, was just dark. It felt like every day was a funeral and watching someone die every day. It was tense every day. He said, I wasn't nervous, but it was stressful. It was a lot of pressure.

Joining us now is CNN legal analyst and criminal defense attorney Joey Jackson.

Joey, the two witnesses that impacted Mitchell the most were Donald Williams, who had witnessed Floyd's arrest, and the pulmonologist, Dr. Martin Tobin. As you'll recall, Tobin took the jurors through to the exact moment that the life left George Floyd's body and even asked the jurors to touch their own necks while explaining the impact of Chauvin's knee. This -- this clearly had an impact. And it's so interesting to hear from jurors which moments made the difference for them.

[08:50:05]

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Without question, Brianna. Good to be with you. Good morning to you and John.

You know, we have an incredible system in our country, and I think we cannot overlook that. And certainly there are disparities in our system that need to be fixed at every level. Discretion as it relates to arrests and who gets arrested, who gets prosecuted, who gets jailed and for how long. But just think about the system that we have that requires 12 people from different walks of life to each, right, reach a conclusion that is the same as their brother and sister officer -- or, excuse me, juror. So just think about that process and that process requiring you to sit there and to listen to compelling testimony, not be able to speak about it until such a time comes when the trial has concluded, in this case 45 witnesses, a juror composed -- jury composed of five men and seven women, and then you go back in that deliberating room and then you all express your point of view as to who is right, who's wrong, what was the most compelling, what was not.

And I'm not at all surprised, Brianna, by the sort of conclusions that he reached with respect to who the most compelling witnesses are. Look at Donald Williams very briefly and him pleading with the officers, stop. What are you doing? Check his pulse. You're a bum, bro. What are you up to? We can't be doing this, right?

And then you have Tobin that talked to the issue of when the life was actually sucked out of George Floyd. So I'm not surprised at that. And at the end of the day, you just hope that all of these people get on the same page and get it right. And I think with regard to this particular case, that's exactly what they did.

BERMAN: Joey Jackson, thanks so much.

Now here's what else to watch today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: 10:00 a.m. ET, Supreme Court hears oral arguments.

1:25 p.m. ET, CDC director speaks.

9:00 p.m. ET, President addresses Congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

Athletes who raise a fist or take a knee in protest at this summer's Olympics will face punishment. We'll talk about that with a man who famously raised his first in protest at the games, next.

And just hours from now, President Biden's first address to a joint session of Congress. A live preview from the White House coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:58]

KEILAR: Protest means punishment at the 2020 Tokyo Olympics. It is a controversial decision the International Olympic Committee announcing last week. And this new IOC rules states, no kind of demonstration or political, religious or racial propaganda is permitted in any Olympic sites, venues or other areas.

My next guest knows all about protesting at the Olympics. In this iconic moment at the 1968 summer games in Mexico City, it was captured, of course, at a time when racial tension was incredibly high. American athletes Tommy Smith and John Carlos raised their black gloved fists against racial inequality, and they went (INAUDIBLE) to protest black poverty in the U.S. The two men were then suspended from the U.S. team and sent packing. And joining me now is the 1968 Olympic bronze medalist, John Carlos.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

You were, of course, inducted into the U.S. Olympic and Paralympic Hall of Fame, and we are so happy to have you here this morning.

JOHN CARLOS, 1968 OLYMPIAN WHO RAISED FIST IN PROTEST: I'm honored to be here.

KEILAR: What is your reaction to this decision from the Olympic Committee?

CARLOS: Well, I think it was a bad decision by the International Olympic Committee. I think that they are still -- minds are still in the stone age. I would think that after 53 years, they should realize that we need to go to the roundtable and have some discussion about the particular demonstration in Mexico and realize that this was not a hate demonstration. This was a moral gesture.

I went to the Olympics under the auspices of Olympic Project for Human Rights. It showed that I had a concern for humanity. It wasn't a hateful thing. People try and put it parallel to my making a statement in 1968 and to the statement that the neo-Nazis made in 1936 in Berlin. That's a hate statement. That's hate all over the world. It's known. They cannot put those two peas in the same pod.

You should have an opportunity to go on the victory stand as long as you do something that's clean, above board for morality, based on your moral issues, such as we have here in the United States for any young black or brown individual. If you're an American Indian, you represent in America. America should support you and push in for equality, love, justice and understanding for society.

KEILAR: John, I want to ask you, because this is part of a larger conversation about politics and, as you said, you know, moral and also ethical statements when it comes to sports.

You know, here in the U.S., what do you make of the fact that Colin Kaepernick is still not playing in the NFL?

CARLOS: Well, that states right there in itself that we have some social issues that's running rampant here in the United States, as well as through other parts of the world and we cannot shove this under the carpet, under our authority of the fact that we're having the Olympic games. You're no longer a human being. Now you're just an Olympian, you're just an athlete and you (INAUDIBLE) conform that way, you should not have any moral character or any moral views about what's happening in and around your community.

It's very difficult for me to go anywhere and not think about Mr. Floyd or any other individuals that had lost their lives in that -- in that vain.

KEILAR: John Carlos, I can't tell you how wonderful it is to speak with you and to thank you for your perspective and joining us this morning. Sir, thank you.

CARLOS: It's my honor. God bless.

KEILAR: God bless you as well.

CNN's coverage --

BERMAN: That's an American icon right there.

KEILAR: It's -- you know, I have to tell you, I've seen that photo for so many years since I was a child. And to find out that I would be interviewing someone who is behind just such an iconic moment, to understand a moment in history, it's amazing.

BERMAN: I was jealous. I was jealous when I saw that you were going to be speaking to him. But there's someone who laid it all on the line, who really laid it all out on the line.

[09:00:02]

And 53 years later, I think it's still teaching us a lesson.

KEILAR: Yes.

BERMAN: Great interview.

KEILAR: CNN's coverage continues right now with Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto.