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President Biden Proposes New Spending and Texas in Address to Joint Session of Congress; White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki Interviewed on President Biden's New Tax Proposals and Government Efforts to Get More Americans Vaccinated; FBI Raids Giuliani's Home & Office, Escalating Criminal Probe. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 29, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And David, just to be clear, this was happening with the backdrop of the initially reaction of Governor Cuomo to the pandemic as New York was very much in the middle of it. It was seen as positive. He was seen as transparent. He was getting a lot of good press for it. And he now still points to this being all political. This is my opponents. But actually the attorney general in this state who he is a fan of, or has been a fan of, put out the report that shows this underreporting, and what it shows was that the state omitted the numbers from people who contracted coronavirus in a nursing home, which is key because of the guidance the governor put out, and died somewhere else, right? So this is -- this would be the backdrop under which you saw his aides, I guess, sort of messing with the numbers, reducing the numbers actively?

J. DAVID GOODMAN, REPORTER, "NEW YORK TIMES": What they did was they decided very early in this pandemic, when they were under scrutiny over their handling of nursing homes, to not include those residents who died outside the nursing homes. And part of that was early on. It was hard to calculate those numbers. There's some truth to the idea that this was a difficult thing to do in the midst of the height of the pandemic last March and April when New York was really struggling just to get through it.

But as you got into May and June and July, the Health Department felt that they could, they had new surveys and they really could say here's how many residents of nursing homes died both inside the nursing home and then also in a hospital. And that's important, because you want to know how many nursing home residents died, not just ones who died in the nursing home facility. And that's the only number that the governor's administration was reporting. So they were leaving out about 50 percent of the people who got sick, and, of course, got treated in a hospital, and then subsequently died there. And -- sorry, go ahead.

KEILAR: Oh, no, I didn't say anything. But we do have to wrap it up, David. This is tremendous reporting, and we certainly thank you for sharing it with us.

NEW DAY continues right now. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm John Berman alongside Brianna Keilar on

this NEW DAY. President Biden hits the road to sell Americans on the ambitious plans he laid out in last night's primetime speech. The White House press secretary joins us live.

And Rudy Giuliani raided by federal agents. What they were looking for. More importantly, what did they find?

KEILAR: Two very different stories are emerging in the deadly police shooting of a black man in North Carolina. What was Andrew Brown Jr. doing right before police opened fire?

Plus, a mysterious incident under investigation near the White House. Is it another invisible attack like the ones that caused brain damage to U.S. spies and diplomats overseas?

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Thursday, April 29th. Good morning from Washington, D.C., I should say. Today is the 100th day of Joe Biden's presidency. He heads to Georgia to speak to voters there. He says he wants to invest enormous sums in their futures in jobs, education and childcare. And as for the tough question that everyone is thinking --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: How do we pay for my jobs and family plan? I made it clear we can do it without increasing the deficit. Let's start with what I will not do. I will not impose any tax increase on people making less than $400,000. But it's time for corporate America and the wealthiest one percent of Americans to just begin to pay their fair share.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: President Biden's hour-long speech also touched on gun violence, police reform, and America's standing with international allies and foes. It was an historic night not just for the president but also for the two women seated behind him on the dais. That was a first. Only 200 people were allowed inside of the House chamber, which is one-eighth of the size of the usual crowd pre-COVID.

Joining us now to talk more about this is White House Press Secretary Jen Psaki.

Jen, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Good morning.

KEILAR: And we got some specifics about the tax increases that President Biden would like to see in order to pay for what he wants to do. And I'm hoping that maybe you can just shed some light on this. "Axios" --Hans Nichols at "Axios" is reporting that this would be for individuals with the threshold being $400,000, but, again, in that top tax bracket, you'd have families at $509,000.

Is that a correct representation of individuals versus families of who can be affected by these tax increases?

[08:05:00]

PSAKI: Well, what the president focus is, Brianna, is ensuring that his bold proposals to ensure there is universal pre-k, that families, that young people across the country can get two additional years of community college, that we can extend the child tax credit, get 12 weeks of paid leave, which we all know working moms around the country need, that he proposed a way to pay for it.

His promise is that nobody making - individuals -- families who are filing, filing their taxes making over $400,000 -- under $400,000 a year will not see their tax goes up.

As we know, people file as married couples. They file as individuals. And he wants to promise -- his promise to the American people is that people who are in the 99 percent of people who are making less than that are not going to have their taxes go up.

KEILAR: So, you're saying it's a threshold for families at $400,000. Is that right?

PSAKI: That's right, and individuals who are filing their taxes. People file differently.

KEILAR: OK, I'm just asking, because, look, I'm not saying that that's not a lot of money, but when you get to some states, as you're aware, like California, New York, or here in the Washington, D.C., metro area, it's not actually the top one percent in those areas. You're talking more about maybe in the five percent realm. So, we're just trying to get specificity on the numbers.

PSAKI: I understand. And we're all for specificity and transparency, too, here, Brianna.

And what he looked at, as the president of all of the country, is how to have the smallest impact on the smallest number of people, and he thinks people making that amount of money can afford to pay a little bit more, so that we can invest in the next generation, invest in childcare, in paid leave, things people need across the country.

KEILAR: Certainly. And you have a lot of support for that in the country, as you look -- are looking at this way to pay for this.

However, I'm curious, when it comes to Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, he is looking at this price tag, about $4 trillion for these proposals, and it makes him uncomfortable. How do you bring along a -- Senator Joe Manchin, who you would need?

PSAKI: Absolutely. And Senator Manchin has been and will be an important partner to the president and to the agenda of the administration.

What's important for people to understand is that the president has proposed a way to pay for all of his proposals. He believes that it's long overdue to invest in infrastructure, that kids should have access to safe drinking water, that the entire country should have access to reliable broadband or high-speed Internet. He believes we should extend the child tax credit, that people should have paid leave. That should be a part of a right in this country.

What he's proposed is a way to pay for it, but he's going to have a discussion. There may be alternative ideas. He's happy to hear them. Maybe they'll come from Senator Manchin. Maybe they'll come from Republicans.

There's conversation right now, Brianna -- you know very well how this works -- at the staff level, at the committee level, into the nitty- gritty details. I expect when Congress returns, the president will invite members of both parties down to the White House to continue those discussions.

KEILAR: All right, let's talk about vaccine hesitancy, which is really the problem that we are facing right now in this country, and also President Biden wearing a mask inside last night. He is vaccinated. I think everyone else there was vaccinated.

We're hearing from some doctors, Jen -- and these are doctors who are very mindful of public health -- right, these are public health experts. They have supported government restrictions. But even they are saying that the CDC should be a little less conservative on guidance for vaccinated people indoors so that people are incentivized to get the shot.

Are Americans who are vaccinated essentially living by the same rules in public indoor spaces right now as those who are unvaccinated?

PSAKI: Well, first, let me just say, we know this is tiring and exhausting, and people are sick and tired of wearing masks, and they're sick and tired of having restrictions and not seeing their friends and not having big barbecues and going to concerts. I am, too.

The good news about the CDC announcement this week is that I can go to the park with my kids and not wear a mask outside. I can go for a run and not wear a mask outside. That is a step forward. It may not be as far forward as everybody wants to see. We understand that.

But we still believe that the CDC guidelines, leading with medical experts, health experts, can give the American people confidence that what the CDC is saying is telling them what is safe. And it may not be at the pace -- but they're going to continue to consider what's possible, and they're going to continue to put out updated guidelines on a range of restrictions easing them as the pandemic gets more and more under control.

KEILAR: You do really need conservative Americans who are disproportionately skeptical of this vaccine to take it.

PSAKI: You're right.

KEILAR: Do you need Donald Trump's help here?

PSAKI: Well, we'd welcome any prominent official to be out there saying the vaccine is effective, that is how to save lives. And I will tell you, every other living president has been a part of that effort. So, if former President Trump wants to do that, we'd welcome that.

But what's important here --

KEILAR: Is there any active outreach to - I mean, look, he's in a position, you're aware, with people who support him that, say, George W. Bush is not -- have you reached out to him?

[08:10:00]

PSAKI: Here's the important thing that I was going to get to, Brianna -- what our data shows is that it's not actually former presidents, celebrities, others who are going to convince the majority of Americans who have not yet taken the vaccine that it's safe and effective. It is local doctors, it's clergy, it's civic leaders.

So that's why our investment, $3 billion to do a big public advocacy campaign is focused on empowering those local voices, because when your neighbor gets the vaccine, when your friend across the street gets the vaccine, you're much more likely to get it than just seeing someone on Twitter or seeing even someone in a PSA. That's what our data shows.

KEILAR: Sure, but would having someone like Trump -- or, really, there is no one like Trump -- would having Trump say, look, you need to talk to your local doctor, you need to talk to your faith leader or adviser, your pastor, would that be something that could get people then to those people who will convince them this is safe?

PSAKI: The truth is, what our data shows is that it's actually these doctors, these clergy, civic leaders, people in communities reaching out that's most effective. It's in some ways like politics and government -- where reaching out, your neighbor's opinion, their view on an issue is going to be the most impactful. And that's true in this case as well.

KEILAR: Is President Biden going to push vaccine makers to release their patents?

PSAKI: Well, what we're looking at now, Brianna, is how to ensure we can make more supply to provide to the global community and do it in the most cost effective way.

There are lots of ways to do that. I know there's been a lot of focus on the patent, but there's a way to increase manufacturing in the United States at our manufacturing facilities that are already equipped to do more manufacturing. So, we're looking at a range of options.

Ultimately there's going to be a recommendation, of course, from the USTR, Katherine Tai. We haven't received that yet. The president and (ph) the COVID team will make a decision. But our primary focus is on upping the supply. And there are lots of ways to do that, but we want to do it in a cost effective way.

KEILAR: OK, so, so far, no call for releasing the patents.

I do want to ask you about the Giuliani raid. Did the White House have any idea this was coming before it happened?

PSAKI: No, we did not.

KEILAR: No DOJ heads up as a courtesy or anything like that?

PSAKI: We did not. It feels different, Brianna, but the DOJ is independent now. They're going to make their own decisions, take their own actions. That's how the president wants it. That's how the attorney general wants it, and certainly that's how we're behaving.

KEILAR: And finally, on Senator Tim Scott who, of course, gave the Republican rebuttal last night, he is the Republican point person when it comes to bipartisan police reform negotiations in Congress -- has President Biden engaged directly with him on this?

PSAKI: I don't have any calls with Senator Scott to read out for you, but what I can tell you is this -- he called him out in the speech last night, the president did, for a reason, because he believes there is an opportunity to work together in a bipartisan way.

And he believes there can be good, constructive conversations between Senator Scott, Senator Booker, others who are leading on this effort -- Congresswoman Karen Bass. And he's looking forward to signing the George Floyd Policing Act into law.

But those negotiations are really going to happen between those members and additional members on the Hill, and the president will, of course, stay engaged. He very much cares about signing this into law. He thinks it's long past time to get police reform in place.

KEILAR: All right, Jen, thank you for being with us. Jen Psaki, the White House press secretary.

PSAKI: Thanks, Brianna.

BERMAN: So this morning, the Justice Department escalating its investigation of Rudy Giuliani. Federal agents raided the home of the former president's longtime personal attorney and ally. It's part of an ongoing criminal probe into Giuliani's political activities in Ukraine. CNN's Paula Reid live with us now with much more in detail. Paula?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. CNN has learned that seven federal agents executed a search warrant at Giuliani's home early Wednesday morning. Additional agents searched his Park Avenue office. And electronic devices were seized in both locations. A sudden and very public development in a years-long investigation into Giuliani's activities in Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

REID: Federal investigators conducted a raid at Rudy Giuliani's home and office in New York City Wednesday, seizing electronic devices from former president Donald Trump's personal attorney.

PREET BHARARA, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: It's a very aggressive step. I know the folks at the SDNY, I hired a lot of them, and they would only do something like this that's so significant if they believed very strongly based on the facts and the law that there's something worthwhile pursuing here.

REID: An attorney for Rudy Giuliani tells CNN that the search warrant was related to an investigation into possible foreign lobbying violations, especially communications between Giuliani and rightwing columnist John Solomon. Solomon wrote op-eds about many pro-Trump and anti-Biden conspiracy theories for "The Hill" that were peddled by Giuliani. After a review, "The Hill" found flaws in Solomon's columns on Ukraine, including a failure to provide key disclosures.

Giuliani denies any wrongdoing and has not yet been charged. His son argues this was politically motivated.

ANDREW GIULIANI, RUDY GIULIANI'S SON: This is disgusting. This is absolutely absurd. And it's the continued politicization of the Justice Department that we have seen.

REID: This raid brings into stark focus Giuliani's actions in Ukraine under intense scrutiny since 2019. Giuliani has been under scrutiny regarding whether he lobbied Ukrainian officials to open an investigation into then-presidential candidate Joe Biden while working as an attorney for former President Trump.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Did you ask the Ukraine to investigate Joe Biden?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: No, actually, I didn't.

CUOMO: You never asked anything about Joe Biden?

GIULIANI: The only thing I asked about Joe Biden is to get to the bottom of how it was that Lutsenko, who was appointed --

CUOMO: Right.

GIULIANI: -- dismissed the case against AntAC --

CUOMO: So you did ask Ukraine to look into Joe Biden?

GIULIANI: Of course I did.

CUOMO: You just said you didn't.

REID: The former president allegedly threatened to withhold military aid to Ukraine and withheld a White House visit for the newly elected Ukrainian president in order to further their efforts, the main focus of Trump's first impeachment trial.

Investigators also want to know if Giuliani acted as an illegal lobbyist on behalf of Ukrainian officials. For example, Giuliani's insistence that the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch be fired. Trump ultimately did eventually fire the well-respected ambassador.

MARIE YOVANOVITCH, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: Our Ukraine policy has been thrown into chaos and shady interests the world over have learned how little it takes to remove an American ambassador who does not give them what they want.

REID: Two Ukrainian associates of Giuliani's were indicted in 2019 on several charges, including illegally funneling foreign money to pro- Trump political groups. Igor Fruman and Lev Parnes allegedly helped introduced Giuliani to Ukrainian officials, both have pleaded not guilty.

Parnes spoke out against his former associate, saying that everything he did was at the direction of Giuliani and for former President Donald Trump's political future.

LEV PARNAS, FORMER ASSOCIATE TO RUDY GIULIANI: That was the most important thing was for him to stay on for another four years and keep the fight going. I mean, there was no other reason for doing it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID (on camera): Giuliani's lawyer tells me he offered to answer questions from the Justice Department as recently as a month ago but federal prosecutors did not take him up on it. CNN has also learned that Giuliani's executive assistance has received a subpoena to appear before a grand jury next month -- John.

BERMAN: That's a big deal, too.

Paula Reid, thanks for your reporting on this. Appreciate it.

Joining us now, Peter Strzok, former FBI deputy assistant director, as well as the former chief of the FBI's counter espionage section.

Peter, thanks so much for being with us.

Put yourself in the shoes of the FBI agents who have been investigating Rudy Giuliani. Why do you think they wanted this raid? Why do you think they wanted to go get hold of his phones?

PETER STRZOK, FORMER FBI DEPUTY ASSISTANT DIRECTOR: Well, John, good morning. I think two points worth making. One, they wanted to do this by press reporting since last summer. The reason you want to get information like this, particularly computer devices is that you have information on there in the form of communications, but also potentially financial records that are not available to you through other means. Particularly when it comes to encrypted communications, when it comes to iMessages or other chats that may not be maintained by an Internet service provider, you need to get a hold of those devices to see what's on there.

The other thing is, you know, since it was recorded last summer, this -- while yesterday's specific date may have been a surprise to Giuliani, the fact that he was being looked at allegedly by SDNY and the FBI was not new. So, investigators are also going to be looking at those devices to see

if anything was altered, if anything was deleted. Because that sort of activity is exactly what strikes to the heart of somebody's knowledge and intent of what they were doing and whether or not it was appropriate.

BERMAN: That's interesting, right, because I think the common person like me asks, well, if Giuliani has known this is going on for a long time, wouldn't he just delete the stuff? That in and of itself, you say may be worth getting a hold of, yes?

STRZOK: Absolutely. I mean, if any person is going in and deleting something, that is a very strong indicator of the knowledge that they might have done something wrong. Most crime in the federal code relies on being able to demonstrate that the intent of somebody. The fact that they knew they were doing something wrong.

And if you go in and you delete things after you become aware that somebody is looking at you, that certainly speaks to your knowledge it wasn't appropriate. So, I'm very curious again. You know, this is a long time coming.

Tip hat to the FBI and SDNY for hanging with us for so long. But I'm very interested to see what comes out of these devices and also that of Victoria Toensing who reporting indicates that her cell phone was seized yesterday as well.

BERMAN: So, take a step back, what we know or what we've been told by Giuliani's lawyers about this, though it has to be taken with a grain of salt and seen through that prism, is that he's being investigated for foreign lobbying basically, something having to do with what's known as FARA.

Can you explain to us why that's important, why that would be against the law and bad, frankly, for America?

[08:20:05]

STRZOK: Absolutely. So American law provides that if you as a U.S. citizen are doing work on behalf of a foreign government, you have to go to the Department of Justice and register as a foreign agent. Essentially that you are performing work on behalf of that foreign nation.

And in this case, when there is a search warrant, let's remind your viewers, a search warrant means a federal judge, not DOJ, not the FBI, a federal judge found there was probable cause that a crime occurred and that evidence of that crime resides or exists in the places that you're searching.

So, in this case, the crime that was indicated on the search warrant from reporting is that it was a violation potentially of the Foreign Agents Registration Act. And particularly given that the investigators were looking at things relating to Ukraine, that leads me to believe that there's some indication or allegation that there were violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act and specifically that potentially Giuliani did not register as would have been required to do by law.

BERMAN: Very finally, we have to go, but just because Giuliani's lawyers say that's what's being investigated, does that mean it's just limited to that?

STRZOK: No, absolutely not. When you go out and get a search warrant you are typically using either the crime that you have the strongest allegations to get the evidence that you want to recover, but investigators are going to be looking at a very broad range of activity, and I would not be surprised at all if there are a variety of statutes and violations beyond simply the registration act at play.

BERMAN: Peter Strzok, thank you for helping us. Very interesting.

STRZOK: Thank you.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It's a dramatic fall for Rudy Giuliani. Once a crusading prosecutor and then America's mayor. Reaction from two people who knew him well, next.

BERMAN: Plus, alarming new reporting on so-called Havana syndrome attacks against Americans. The latest incident right here in Washington near the White House.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:25:36]

KEILAR: From America's mayor to having his home and office raided by the feds, it's been quite the descent for Rudy Giuliani.

And joining us for more on Giuliani's dramatic arc are two people who know him very well. John Avlon is his former speechwriter. Olivia Nuzzi has interviewed Giuliani many times as a Washington correspondent for "New York Magazine", bringing us perhaps some of the most colorful interviews that Giuliani has done.

Can you give us a sense, John, of your reaction to this raid and the fallout?

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Shocked. And a real sense of the tragedy of it given the trajectory of his career. You know, before he was New York City mayor, when I worked for him and was proud to do so he was a crusading U.S. attorney, leading the Southern District, which is the organization that's investigating him now. And I don't think you can underestimate the respect he had in the legal community and the justice community, particularly at that time, and when he was mayor.

So for this sort of tragic third act in the Rudy opera to be punctuated by the feds raiding his apartment is truly stunning. It's sickening. I don't think it's evidence of a politicized Justice Department. I think that's an ironic accusation by people from the Trump orbit.

But it is -- it is tragic. And he deserves to be remembered for more than this last act. But I'm afraid it will overshadow his other accomplishments.

BERMAN: His last acts go on a long time. And it includes two impeachments, not to mention several other civil suits and an attempt at a stolen election on top of everything else.

Olivia, you've got a complicated electronic relationship, among other things, with the former mayor. And yesterday you tweeted out, you know, I don't think I'm going to be getting called back from him today.

Listen. Help us understand how much he uses these devices that have now been seized. What's on them? How many he has. What's going on here in this convoluted electronic world of Rudy Giuliani?

OLIVIA NUZZI, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Well, we certainly have our ups and downs in our relationship, but in the time that I've spent with him, I couldn't help but notice that as an informal cybersecurity adviser to the then-White House, this is a man who had absolutely no idea how to use his electronic devices.

He had at minimum, three different cell phones and he was often carrying them haphazardly together, their screens unlocked, they'd be banging into each other. He once activated Siri by mistake in front of me and then sighed. She never understands me.

And this is a man, you know, watching this unfurl, this is a man who was informing the White House, allegedly, about cybersecurity. So there was a certain irony to that.

He also had an iPad and he was constantly communicating almost like pathologically, constantly, constantly on encrypted apps. He used WhatsApp. He would use iMessage. He would be on the phone nonstop.

And it seemed like he didn't really care who he was communicating with. He would take calls from any reporter, whether or not they were adversarial. Anyone presenting as a reporter, he would often be trolled from people who got his number through mysterious means online.

So this is not a person whose communications, you could argue, were secure in any way. And I imagine there's quite a lot for investigators to sift through.

AVLON: Yeah.

KEILAR: Yeah.

AVLON: Yeah. Can I just add, like Rudy Giuliani is a yellow legal pad kind of guy in a digital world. But fundamentally, the flow through is, the disciplined judgment that I saw from him and that characterized his understanding of the responsibilities of office and as a prosecutor is -- been lost. I mean, and I think that's been reflected in some of his communications and falling in with people like Lev and Igor, not to deflect blame. He's responsible for his actions.

KEILAR: As -- look, we're wonder --

NUZZI: It's interest, when I -- oh, sorry.

KEILAR: Olivia, can we just -- can I just -- I want to play a little sound because for anyone wondering, you know, what the Trump/Giuliani relationship is in the wake of this raid, Trump just responded. Let's listen.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

DOANLD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: Rudy Giuliani is a great patriot. He does these things -- he just loves this country. And they raid his apartment? It's like so unfair and such a double -- it's like a double standard. Like I don't think anybody has ever seen before. It's very, very unfair.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think, Olivia?

AVLON: Jesus (ph).

NUZZI: Well, I imagine that Donald Trump is watching this unfurl and thinking.

[08:30:00]