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New Day

FBI Warned Giuliani of Russian Campaign Against Biden; Biden's DOJ Flexes Muscle in Series of High-Profile Moves; America's Comeback Underway: Why the Economy's on Fire; Dozens Killed in Stampede at Religious Festival in Israel. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 30, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR: NEW DAY starts right now.

[05:59:30]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman, live from Washington on this NEW DAY.

A defiant Rudy Giuliani breaking his silence on the FBI raid against him, and new this morning is the warning that he received.

Plus, a reported confession letter implicating Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz in a criminal investigation.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The horror deepens across India as the coronavirus just explodes there. We're going to speak with an ICU doctor at the center of it all.

And the U.S. begins to withdraw troops from Afghanistan. A new warning from al Qaeda terrorists.

KEILAR: A very good morning to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Friday. Friday, April 30.

BERMAN: That's what they told me when I came in. That's great to here.

KEILAR: It is lovely to hear. And it's true today, so that's even better.

Rudy Giuliani is on the ropes and speaking out for the first time since FBI agents raided his home and his office. The former New York mayor appearing on FOX to proclaim his innocence. His team is expected to mount a court fight over these files that were seized in this raid, and they will claim attorney/client privilege involving Giuliani's work for former President Trump.

BERMAN: But there are new developments this morning. "The Washington Post" reports that the FBI personally warned Giuliani in 2019 that he was the target of a Russian influence operation and also months later warned Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson the Russians were trying to damage then-candidate Joe Biden ahead of the 2020 election.

Joining us now, CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former FBI deputy director Andrew McCabe.

Andy, these defensive intelligence briefings that were given to Giuliani, then Ron Johnson, how big of a deal is this? What does it tell you? Because Giuliani and Johnson are trying to dismiss it as not a thing.

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: It is definitely a thing. I mean, John, it's a pretty big deal, for two reasons, really.

One, if the FBI sits down to give someone a defensive briefing, they're basically telling them that they think that they've been targeted by a hostile foreign intelligence service. They don't do that without a lot of very clear information that indicates that that's going on.

So this isn't just something they do as, you know, maybe a just-in- case sort of measure. They only do it when they have serious information that indicates it's necessary.

The second thing is one of the interesting things about giving a defensive briefing is seeing how the person reacts after the fact. Most people will quickly curtail their activities and cut off their contact with the person or persons in question.

If you don't do that, it really sends a very strong message to the investigators that, now that you know what's going on, you continue to take that risk, you continue to see those people or interact with those folks, it's -- it's indicative of a clear state of mind that you're now acting with knowledge, and that can be very damaging in any investigation that goes forward.

BERMAN: Let's just be clear. After this defensive briefing with Rudy Giuliani, he had all kinds of meetings with someone who the U.S. during the Trump administration named as a known Russian agent.

MCCABE: That's absolutely right. So there's -- there's really no space here for Mr. Giuliani to now say after the fact, well, I didn't really know what was happening or I didn't really understand, or I didn't really believe the FBI.

It's not just that he got the defensive briefing. But now, of course, we know that the Treasury Department went forward and designated those folks and imposed sanctions on those individuals, Derkach and Telizhenko. So this is -- this is very serious. He's -- he is -- he's being painted into a corner that's going to be very hard to get out of.

KEILAR: And Giuliani spoke out about this raid by the FBI, and he's saying that the evidence seized proved that -- proves he's innocent. Let's listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER LAWYER FOR DONALD TRUMP: The evidence is exculpatory. It proves that the president and I, and all of us are innocent. They're the ones who are committing -- it's like projection. They're committing the crimes. The search warrant is reportedly based on one single failure to file for representing a Ukrainian national or official that I never represented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you make of that, Andy, that the warrant was based on a failure to file?

MCCABE: Well, what we know of the warrant is that it is based on an alleged violation of the Foreign Agent Registration Act, which essentially requires you to file with the Justice Department if you are -- if you are representing a foreign government to the U.S. government. So technically, I think he's probably right about that.

Where I would diverge from his opinion is the strength of the case. The FBI would not have even contemplated executing a search warrant at an attorney's house, at an attorney's office without being very confident about the evidence they have of the underlying charge.

So my -- my guess is that charge is probably pretty substantiated at this point. What they're looking for in the documents and the devices and the computer that they seized is evidence of that and potentially other crimes. That's the direction that probably poses the most danger for Mr. Giuliani.

BERMAN: I might also suggest that perhaps the last person on earth who we should be looking to for legal analysis about the case against Rudy Giuliani is Rudy Giuliani here.

And whether or not that's the one thing on the warrant, as Giuliani likes to say, Andy, that doesn't mean that that's his only area of jeopardy. That doesn't mean that that's all that the February could for after, is that right?

MCCABE: That's absolutely right. And in fact, that's the much more serious angle to this. All we know now is that they have enough to convince a judge that there's probable cause to believe that there's evidence of a FARA, or Foreign Agents Registration Act, violation in the office.

Whatever else they find is the direction that the -- that the investigation goes. So in other words, if they find communications between Mr. Giuliani and other people in Ukraine, here in the United States, business associates, then maybe they find contracts or documents that are -- that are revealing of other activity that could lead to all kinds of other federal charges. That's where this case really blows up and gets much bigger.

KEILAR: All right. We will stay tuned for that. Former FBI deputy director, Andrew McCabe, thanks for being with us this morning.

And let's discuss the legal road ahead, which sounds like it may be a long one for Rudy Giuliani, with our CNN legal analyst and attorneys, Joey Jackson and Paul Callan.

All right, Paul, starting with you here, let's hear what Giuliani said and get your take on his claim that the search warrant was illegal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: Completely illegal. The only way you can get a search warrant is if you can show that there's some evidence that the person is going to destroy the evidence or is going to -- or is going to run away with the evidence. Well, I've had it for two years, and I haven't destroyed it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you make of that?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, as perplexed as Tucker Carlson looks in that -- in that little bit of video, I'm perplexed that Giuliani would say that, because a search warrant doesn't require that the person's going to flee or destroy the evidence or that he's made statements about that rule. Forty-one of the federal rules simply says that if there's probable cause that evidence of a crime is in the possession of someone at a specific location, a warrant can be issued, and that's exactly what the court did in this case, and there doesn't appear to be any illegality in the warrant from what we know now.

BERMAN: To put a finer point on it, Giuliani is wrong. It's another way of saying, you know, the veracity of the statement isn't true what he was saying there about when you can get a warrant.

Joey, Giuliani also made some claims about the evidence that was taken by federal agents, not just now but previously in the investigation. I want to play this and get your take on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: When they had taken about, I'd say, seven or eight electronic items of mine -- which is what they took -- and two of someone else's. In the middle of the impeachment defense, they invaded, without telling me, my iCloud.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Joey.

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: So a couple of things are significant. First of all, good morning to you, John and Brianna, and Paul, of course.

The reality is, is that to have someone speaking to begin with is perplexing to me. And I think the only basis and reason for him to speak is because you want to gain political kind of -- you know, it's the public relations spin. So there are two objectives, I think, from a criminal defense perspective.

No. 1, if you want to get ahead of it. I think if you listen to the whole interview, it's about Hunter Biden. It's about the Biden -- his machine and the crime family. It's about everything but him. And the reality is, is that this is not about that. So that's what we

call deflection. That's what you call ginning up the right. That's what you call gaining sympathy.

At the end of the day, you can make any statement you want. And I would caution you, John, to consider the source. Giuliani could say whatever he wants to say. At the end of the day, there's a warrant. That warrant is apparently supported by probable cause. Otherwise, it wouldn't have been issued. The judge apparently gave that warrant out to the FBI. Based upon that warrant, information was taken. It will be evaluated, reviewed.

CALLAN: You know, Joey, you know what's bizarre, too, about Giuliani and his -- his phraseology. He says the FBI invaded his iCloud. Now, what in the world does that mean? They invaded his iCloud? You know, it's just -- the description is really off.

Now, I assume that he's talking about a computer search of information that's stored on the iCloud. But he also, as you know, he diverted into all of this business about Hunter Biden's hard drive and all kinds of other things --

JACKSON: Deflection.

CALLAN: -- which is an exact description of deflection --

JACKSON: Yes.

CALLAN: -- what you're talking about.

JACKSON: Yes. So without question, John. So I think, John and Brianna, at the end of the day, he can say whatever he wants. There's, of course, a public relations narrative that you want to. It's about unfairness. It's about what I was representing. It's about invasion. It's about illegality.

What it's about is what the contents of the devices is ultimately going to show and what's on there. And let's be clear about this. It's not only as it relates to the Foreign Agent Registration Act and whether he did or didn't, whether he was working for Ukraine or someone else.

[06:10:09]

But it's what, if anything else, are on those devices, as Paul can tell you, that will lead to other avenues of investigation that could cause real trouble.

So take what he says with a grain of salt. He could say anything. His lawyers could say anything. I want to know what's on those devices, where they lead, what was he doing it, who he was doing it with, who he was doing it to, et cetera. That's to come.

KEILAR: And Paul, we've known that Giuliani has been investigated for his political activities in Ukraine, though he's not yet been charged with anything, important to mention. Can you explain what Giuliani said about why the search warrant was granted? Let's first listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIULIANI: The search warrant is purportedly based on one single failure to file, for representing a Ukrainian national or official that I've never represented. I've never represented a Ukrainian national or official before the United States government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Paul, what do you think of that?

CALLAN: Well, what he's talking about is the theory that -- and this is the theory. That Giuliani had been given information by a prosecutor in the Ukraine named Lutsenko.

Lutsenko wanted the American ambassador fired. You remember Maria Yovanovitch, who we saw testify extensively in the Trump impeachment.

So -- so the theory here is that Giuliani was representing the interests of the Ukraine, specifically probably Yuri Lutsenko, in lobbying the State Department to fire the American ambassador.

And we also know from testimony that came out from the president himself with respect to the impeachment proceedings that the president set up a meeting with Secretary of State Pompeo for Giuliani to discuss the ambassador.

So that looks like the theory that's shaping up. A Ukrainian national uses Giuliani to fire an American ambassador, and Giuliani is not registered under the FARA act. That, I think, is what Giuliani was trying to explain.

JACKSON: And of course, he indicates that he did no such thing. There was no basis for him having to do so, that this is all a witch hunt. It's about Biden. Biden doesn't know, doesn't remember.

I mean, such derogatory things about the Biden and the Biden family. It's not about that. So it's about you, and at the end of the day, always innocent until proven guilty.

But a search warrant is just that, it's probable cause. We're not at the point where there's a trial, or there's even a charge. So we'll take that for what it's worth, but, boy, oh, boy, it's looking that there's something really there.

BERMAN: Joey Jackson, Paul Callan, great to see you. Thank you so much, gentlemen.

CALLAN: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: So the Giuliani raid is the latest example how the Justice Department under President Biden is flexing its law enforcement muscle with some high-profile moves.

CNN's Whitney Wild joins us now with much more on that -- Whitney. WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a very big personality

difference between the past attorney general and this one. But make no mistake, this is still an aggressive Department of Justice. We're seeing that across the country, from these sprawling, complex investigations to a push to scrutinize policing. The effects of this new deal, Jay [SIC], are clear nationwide.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILD (voice-over): The Biden administration's Justice Department making moves in several high-profile cases this week, including some in connection with the murder of George Floyd last May.

Federal prosecutors reportedly plan to charge four former Minneapolis police officers, including Derek Chauvin, with federal civil rights violations, according to what sources have told "The Minneapolis Star- Tribune" and KSTB-TV.

And just one day after a jury found Chauvin guilty of murdering Floyd last week, Attorney General Merrick Garland announced a Justice Department probe into the Minneapolis Police Department's use of force.

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The investigation will assess whether the Minneapolis Police Department look at them using excessive force including during protests. They'll also assess whether the Minneapolis Police Department engages in a pattern or practice of using excessive force, including during protests. The investigation will also assess whether the MPD engages in discriminatory conduct.

WILD: Garland also launched a similar investigation into the Louisville Police Department this week, following the fatal police shooting of Breonna Taylor last year.

GARLAND: It will determine whether LMPD engages in unconstitutional stops, searches, and seizures, as well as whether the department unlawfully executes search warrants on private homes.

WILD: And the FBI opened up a federal civil rights investigation into the shooting death of Andrew Brown Jr. by a sheriff's deputy in Elizabeth City, North Carolina.

Nearly four months after the deadly insurrection at the Capitol, the Justice Department has charged at least 400 people in connection with the riot from 43 states and Washington, D.C.

Prosecutors say in court papers they ultimately expect to charge at least 500 people.

[06:15:04]

And on Wednesday, a federal indictment for the three Georgia men already facing state murder charges in the killing of Ahmaud Arbery while he was jogging last year, a federal grand jury charging them with hate crimes and attempted kidnapping. WANDA COOPER-JONES, AHMAUD ARBERY'S MOTHER: I'm very satisfied with

the -- with the DOJ. They went in and did the investigation, and they came out with those indictments.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WILD: As for that Giuliani raid we've been talking about this morning, that was part of a two-year DOJ investigation. President Biden says he was not aware of the raid before it happened, adding that it's not his role to interfere with the Justice Department's investigation. That marks a stark contrast in the relationship between the West Wing and the DOJ from the previous administration, John and Brianna.

BERMAN: Meanwhile, it's so interesting to look at all that. Thanks so much for putting it into perspective.

KEILAR: Thank you.

Breaking news, at least 44 worshippers killed in a stampede at a religious gathering. We're going to take you there.

BERMAN: Plus, we'll speak live with an ICU doctor at the center of the horror in India, where COVID victims are dying in the streets.

KEILAR: And the U.S. economy soaring to a new height. What's fueling the remarkable American comeback.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:21]

KEILAR: Good news. Lay-offs are slowing. The housing and stock markets are booming. The economy is making a major comeback. Chief business correspondent Christine Romans here with us. It is great to have you telling us the good news this week.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: I know. I need it after the last year, right? This is called the great American comeback. The economy roaring back in the first quarter.

It's almost back to where it was before the pandemic. Not quite. But we think it will hit that in the second quarter. The economy grew 6.4 percent in the first quarter. That's the best first quarter since 1984.

That strong number showed huge gains in consumer spending and business investment. Goldman Sachs -- Goldman Sachs estimates this economy could grow by 7 percent for the year. What a reversal that would be. That would be the best in 30 years.

We know that layoffs have slowed. Weekly jobless claims still too high, but look at the trend there. Jobless claims have been slowing definitively.

The housing market is the strongest it's been in years. Home prices are setting records. Buyers are scrambling to find homes in a seller's market.

Also setting records, tech earnings. The pandemic moved American's lives online. Microsoft and Google profits soared. People spent most of their lives in front of multiple screens during the lockdowns.

And Amazon -- Amazon has had an amazing quarter. More than tripled its profit in the first quarter to $8.1 billion. And Amazon says it will spend a billion dollars to raise wages for more than 500,000 workers.

Also, record highs for stocks. Look at the major averages. The S&P 500 is up 12 percent this year. More people are getting back outside as restrictions are lifted, guys. Open Table's CEO says nearly 80 percent of restaurants are open and taking reservations.

McDonald's said sales are back to pre-pandemic levels. Delta will start selling its middle seat tomorrow. That's the last airline to return to full capacity as demand for travel grows.

Disneyland in California reopening with limited capacity to Californians. It shut its gates over a year ago. And the CDC, guys, says that U.S. cruise ships could set sail in July if the vast majority of the ship's passengers and crew are vaccinated.

Now, the greatest risk to this recovery, the resurgence of the virus, which is the best reason out there to get this vaccine, which is safe and effective. And it's true. Not everyone is benefiting from the economy yet. That's the way the economic agenda comes in. He wants to make sure that forgotten Americans can benefit, too, that this rising tide -- and it is rising -- lifts all boats, not just yachts, John.

BERMAN: If I had time, there's two things I find fascinating about this, Romans, where we are right now.

No. 1, this is not preordained. Look at what we just learned from Europe this morning. Europe is going in the exact opposite direction as the U.S. is booming.

And then the second thing is just the almost impossible growth in durable goods. Because Americans are buying big stuff at rates we've just never seen.

ROMANS: And, you know, look, the savings rate, something like 20 percent or something. And double-digit percentage for the savings rate, which means Americans have taken those two stimulus checks, put some in their pocket and the rest to work in the economy. That speaks well for the rest of the year as Americans have some savings to draw down on.

One thing I'm really interested in here, John, is the potential for a worker shortage. You are starting to see Amazon, for example, raising wages for a whole bunch of people. Costco did it last month. We know that a lot of frontline companies are going to have to raise wages to get workers back into the -- back into the game.

We also know that some frontline workers are retraining for jobs in tech and finance, right, because of just the strain of the last year. So this will be a really important space to watch.

We also know that the Federal Reserve is not worried about this economy running too hot. The Fed chief this week has said there's no move to so-called taper all of this stimulus that's in the economy, John.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, amazing times. Good to see.

So new this morning, al Qaeda delivering a warning to the U.S. as President Biden begins to withdraw troops from Afghanistan.

Plus, as hospitals are on the verge of collapsing, COVID explodes inside India. We're going to speak live with an ICU doctor about what she's seeing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:28:38]

KEILAR: Overnight, at least 44 worshippers crushed to death in a stampede at a mass religious gathering in Mount Meron, Israel. Dozens more were injured. Investigators are now looking into what triggered this.

CNN's Hadas Gold is there live for us. Hadas, what do we know so far?

HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, I am standing on the site of what the Israeli ambulance services say is one of the worst civil disasters in Israeli history.

You can see the remnants of what was a tangle of bodies on top of each other. They were coming out of an area that is just behind my cameraman where they were celebrating a holiday called Lag b'Omer. This is a holiday that's full of bonfires singing and dancing near the site where we are, the tomb of an ancient rabbi.

But what's normally a holiday of celebration, of fire, of singing and dancing, last night turned into tragedy. Listen to what one witness had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WICE ISRAEL, FESTIVAL ATTENDEE (through translator): I was there. And inside the bonfire, it was crowded. And there were around 60,000 to 70,000 people, no place to move, and people started to fall to the ground. A lot fell to the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: Now, the attorney general is launching an investigation to see what happened, to see why this area right here was so crowded, what caused that chaos of people altogether.

Because this event actually takes place every year, and this is -- and this is an unusual event, to say the least, for -- for this community here, especially.