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Reporting Indicates Letter Written by Joel Greenberg Implicates Congressman Matt Gaetz in Committing Sexual Misconduct; Rudy Giuliani Reportedly Received Briefing by FBI that Russia was Attempting to Use Him to Spread Misinformation about Then Presidential Candidate Joe Biden; Former President Trump Says He May Consider Ron DeSantis as Running Mate in 2024 Presidential Run; Interview with New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired April 30, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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SHERIFF LEN HAGAMAN, WATAUGA COUNTY, NORTH CAROLINA: These folks went looking for the stepfather and the mother at the location, and they were not expecting Mr. Lawrence to be there and encounter them with gunfire.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: No, they certainly weren't. And as you said, your community is certainly devastated. You are on our minds, sir. Sheriff, thank you so much for being with us and talking with us about these officers.

HAGAMAN: Thank you. It's been an honor, and just thank you for everything you all are doing. You're great with the press. I've got a really great relationship with the press, and you all are an exception, too. Thank you so much.

KEILAR: Thank you, sir.

NEW DAY continues right now.

I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman on this NEW DAY. An explosive twist in the Matt Gaetz case. An alleged confession letter pointing to criminal conduct.

And Rudy Giuliani defiant after the raid on his apartment. We have new reporting on the warning that he received.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: New York's mayor and governor in a war of words over the city's plans to reopen almost everything this summer. Mayor Bill de Blasio joins us live.

And say goodbye to the empty middle seat. Airlines are getting ready to pack planes full of people once again.

KEILAR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Friday, yes, it is, April 30th. And up first a blockbuster confession letter further implicating Congressman Matt Gaetz. "The Daily Beast" reports that Gaetz' friend Joel Greenberg wrote a bombshell confession letter, and what it said was that he and the Florida congressman paid for sex with several women, including an underage 17-year-old girl. This was a letter that was part of Greenberg's attempt to get a pardon from then-President Trump with the help of Roger Stone.

BERMAN: So CNN has not seen the letter and cannot independently confirm "The Daily Beast" report. We've reached out to Greenberg's attorney. He refused to comment. Gaetz P.R. people says the Congressman has never paid for sex and has never had sex with a 17- year-old as an adult.

Let's bring in CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe. He's the former deputy director of the FBI. So Andy, this confession letter from Joel Greenberg that just says things flatly, what do investigators do with something like this?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: John, this story gets a little stranger with every chapter, but the letter, what we've heard of this letter, it doesn't add a lot to the allegations that we've heard about the sort of conduct that Greenberg and Gaetz were involved in. But the thing that's very significant about it is it predates Greenberg's cooperation with the authorities.

So Greenberg is a guy who we know now is cooperating with the investigators, he is presumably telling them lots of information. Investigators have to corroborate what he tells them. So having this preexisting statement from him to another friend or associate, Roger Stone, goes a long way to firming up, at least proving, hey, I am not making this story up for your benefit, this is something that I've been saying for a long time. So it corroborates the allegation in that way, which is significant.

KEILAR: And so how do we expect this to proceed? Where do you see this going?

MCCABE: That's really hard to say, Brianna. As I said, I don't know that this tips the scales that much more against the congressman. The basic allegation of sex with an underage person is still out there. I think it's likely the investigators are getting much better evidence from making contact with all these women supposedly involved in this stuff. I think it's really significant, in "The Daily Beast" article, they indicate "The Daily Beast" have seen evidence of over 200 payments, electronic payments, from Joel Greenberg to many of these women, and they've corroborated with at least a dozen or so of them that those payments were at least in part for sexual activity. So there is a lot of really significant corroboration and victim statements and other sorts of evidence here that they may be able to rely on.

BERMAN: Andy, one more thing we want your take on here, which is that "The Washington Post" reported overnight, and CNN has got reporting on this also, was that the FBI gave Rudy Giuliani what's known as a defensive briefing intelligence, saying that, look, the Russians are trying to use you to spread disinformation about Joe Biden, then candidate Joe Biden, to hurt Joe Biden's campaign. "The Post" also reports they talked to Ron Johnson months after that. How big of a deal is a briefing like this?

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MCCABE: It's a big deal, John. It doesn't happen without a significant amount of information that basically proves to the FBI that this sort of nefarious contact is underway. So you go to the person and you explain to them -- oftentimes you can't share all the confidential or classified intelligence you have, but you explain to them, hey, this person or these people are actually acting on behalf of a hostile foreign service and they're targeting you. After that fact, the FBI steps back and waits to see how you handle that briefing. If you cut off your interactions with them, that's a good sign. If you continue to interact them, which we know that Rudy Giuliani did here, that is a very bad sign. You now are acting with these foreign agents, and you are aware of the fact that the U.S. government thinks that they are hostile intelligence agents. That is very serious.

KEILAR: Yes, and perhaps very telling. Andy, thank you so much, Andy McCabe.

Rudy Giuliani, of course, played a prominent role in the various legal troubles surrounding former President Trump. Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig with us to look at that. He's a former state and federal prosecutor. OK, Elie, let's start with Giuliani's role in Trump's first impeachment.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Brianna, so it seemed that throughout Donald Trump's time as president, any time he got in trouble, Rudy was not far behind. Rudy was really a driving force behind the first impeachment. Rudy did two things. First of all, he pressured Trump to fire or remove the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, Marie Yovanovitch. And we know because Donald Trump bragged about that in his infamous July 25th phone call to the Ukrainian president. President Trump said this, "Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him, that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States, the woman was bad news."

Now, this could be what the search warrant that we saw this week was all about, because if Rudy was lobbying on behalf of Ukrainians to get rid of the ambassador, but he did not register as a foreign lobbyist, that could be a federal crime.

Now, Rudy also was involved in pressuring the Ukrainian government to open and announce investigations of the Bidens. Donald Trump also announced this. He said, I will tell Rudy and Attorney General Barr to call to the Ukrainian president. Rudy ended up going on the Chris Cuomo show, we all remember this, and making these stunning admissions.

OK, we all remember this. This is when Rudy went on the show with Chris Cuomo and first denied that he had asked the Ukrainian government to investigate the Bidens, and then Rudy admitted to Chris Cuomo that that's exactly what he had asked for. This, of course, led to Donald Trump's first impeachment. BERMAN: "The Artist" did win Best Picture as a silent film, Elie. I

think we clearly got the point there what was going on. Giuliani, it turns out, is the guy you go to if you want to get impeached, right? If you're a president, I need to get impeached, hire Giuliani, and you get there pretty quickly, because Giuliani played a role in the 2020 election, the big lie and the impeachment there. Walk us through what happened.

HONIG: Yes, Rudy was also key to the election fraud claims that led to the second impeachment. We all remember Rudy in front of Four Seasons Landscaping. We all remember Rudy with the hair dye running down his face, making these wild public claims that there had been massive election fraud. Where did that get Rudy? Well, it ended up getting Rudy -- first of all, he filed dozens of lawsuits, none of which succeeded. It got Rudy sued by two voting companies, Smartmatic and Dominion, and it got Rudy an investigation by the Fulton County, Georgia, district attorney for making false statements to the Georgia legislature about election fraud.

Of course, the culmination of all this was the infamous speech that Rudy made to the crowd right before they stormed the Capitol where Rudy said the words that I think will live in infamy from Rudy, we want trial by combat. What followed that was the Capitol insurrection, and then Donald Trump's second impeachment.

BERMAN: Those words that live in infamy are filling a book at this point from the former mayor. Elie Honig, thanks so much for being with us, appreciate it.

HONIG: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: We want to bring our chief political correspondent Dana Bash in person this morning with us. It's fantastic to see you.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I have to say I was really excited when I was driving in this morning.

BERMAN: Let's just talk more about that, not Rudy Giuliani.

BASH: OK, about how great you guys are. It's been a while.

BERMAN: Since people talked about how great we were?

(LAUGHTER)

KEILAR: No, it's been a while since seeing Dana.

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BERMAN: So Rudy Giuliani is trying to defend himself, right? He's saying all kinds of stuff out loud. Let's listen a little bit.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, TRUMP'S FORMER PERSONAL LAWYER: The evidence is exculpatory. It proves that the president and I and all of us are innocent. They're the ones who are committing -- it's like projection. They're committing the crimes.

The search warrant is purportedly based on one single failure to file for representing a Ukrainian national or official that I never represented. I've never represented a Ukraine unanimous national or official before the United States government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Even Tucker looked confused there, or he just looked like he looks. What is Rudy Giuliani now at this point? What does this all mean?

BASH: It means he's in trouble, and he knows that. Remember, he was the U.S. attorney in the southern district once upon a time, that's how he made his bones in politics and in the legal profession. And so he understands that.

I think that there was a little bit of news there, if we are to believe what he said, in that his understanding is that what the feds are looking at is whether he was representing the Ukrainians without filing officially. And that could get him in trouble. How much trouble, we don't know. But the context of this, of course, as Elie pointed out, is the idea that he was spending a lot of time both in Ukraine and talking to Ukrainians, and that was part of, as you said, the first impeachment where he got the then-president really riled up about his ambassador and got her fired. The question is whether or not Giuliani did that on behalf of the president or on behalf of Ukrainian officials who may or may not have been paying him without him registering, making it official.

KEILAR: Let's talk about what we're seeing in Florida, because you've got a state that is -- it's not unusual in states see Republicans spearheading what they're calling opposition to voter fraud, but really it's going to limit the access to votes for a lot of people, and probably folks who might vote Democratic. But the state legislature there passed this voting bill, and what it would do is it would restrict voting in the state by, in particular, limiting access to these ballot drop boxes. And it's worth pointing out that it seems that Republicans are solving for a problem that only cropped up in 2020, which is more Democrats voting by mail than Republicans, who usually vote by mail more often. So once we're into 2022, 2024, we're not in the thick of a pandemic, what is this effect going to be?

BASH: And also, you said Republicans are correcting for a problem. It is a political problem --

KEILAR: A problem as they see it, to be clear. I don't really see it as a problem.

BASH: No, no, I know you don't, but I think the point you're making is really key here, Bri, because the Republicans were doing well in Florida with mail-in voting, with early voting, better than Republicans did in other states for lots of reasons. The president of the United States voted for himself in a mail-in ballot, and he said at the time because Florida is doing it well, they know what they're doing, because it's run by a Republican governor. Now, in hindsight, because Democrats did well with early voting and

got out their people in a way that they hadn't before, that's why they want to change the law. We know that Florida -- first of all, this is the first time that a Trump-won state is doing this. We've seen Georgia, we've seen Arizona, other places trying to change the law, because, let's be honest, Trump lost, and that's what Republican legislatures are doing. But Florida already got their stuff together after 2000, after the recount, right, John? You were there?

BERMAN: They called this the gold standard. They were so proud of how they were doing things in Florida until all of a sudden they're not, until they decide there is a political reason not to do so.

Sort of on the subject of Florida here, I missed this from Donald Trump's interview, and I had a Republican text it to me, and I have to be very careful with how I say this. He called it premature emasculation. That's why I was careful. And it has to do with the former president being asked if he would tap Ron DeSantis as his running mate in 2024. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: He's done a great job as governor. A lot of people like that. I'm just saying what I read and what you read, they love that ticket. But certainly Ron would be considered. He's a great guy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So the reason this Republican sent this to me --

BASH: Who is being emasculated here?

BERMAN: DeSantis, that Trump is trying to say, yes, DeSantis, I might consider him a running mate if I run again, because there a lot of Republicans saying maybe DeSantis should be at the top of the ticket, maybe DeSantis is the future of the party. So what the former president is trying to do here is say, maybe my running mate.

BASH: Take him down a notch.

BERMAN: Yes.

BASH: Fascinating. But the bigger question at this point is, what is Donald Trump going to do in 2024?

[08:15:01]

And it is such an open question. That is part of the reason why so much -- not just of the base but of his party's leadership is still running scared from him. It's not just that he has influence whether or not he runs, which is true, which is why the lies that he is perpetuating continue to change laws that will very much affect voting in Florida and other places.

But, you know, you only have a few top Republicans who are willing to say, don't do it. Whether it is Liz Cheney or Asa Hutchinson told me that in an interview a couple months ago, but even someone like the former Speaker John Boehner who is really tough on Donald Trump in his book, even he wouldn't go there in saying, you know what, don't do it, Mr. President. That is where the Republican Party is right now, full stop.

KEILAR: Dana Bash in real life.

BERMAN: So it's great to see you.

BASH: It's so great to see you guys. Welcome to Washington.

KEILAR: It's great to be home.

BASH: This is the first time we've seen each other in full makeup.

KEILAR: I have missed working with you in person and seeing you in person at work, so I love seeing you.

BASH: And congratulations.

KEILAR: Thank you. Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Thank you.

BASH: My fave. I love watching you guys.

KEILAR: A battle is brewing over NYC's reopening. The mayor and the governor are in a war of words. We're going to get live reaction from Mayor de Blasio next.

BERMAN: And James Carville says, quote, wokeness is a problem for Democrats. Reaction from CNN's own W. Kamau Bell.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR BILL DE BLASIO (D), NEW YORK CITY: We are ready to bring New York City back fully. On July 1st, all systems go because you've earned it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, that was New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio announcing the complete opening of the city this summer.

The announcement came as a surprise to New York state Governor Andrew Cuomo who had this to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D-NY): I want to open up New York City Tuesday. I want to open it up Wednesday. I want Buffalo fully reopened on Thursday.

I am reluctant to make projections because I think they're irresponsible. July 1. You have May, you have June. What happens in May, what happens in June? I would like to get the reopening, hopeful reopening date before that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now is New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio.

Mayor, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

I do want to read some comments from your press secretary. I'm sure you know what I'm about to read. He was asked about this pushback from Cuomo and said, quote: Serial sexual assaulter says what? And quote, I don't care what a serial sexual harasser and assaulter and someone who covered up the deaths of thousands of people at nursing homes has to say about anything -- which brings me to this question. What is going on with you guys?

DE BLASIO: Well, Brianna, first of all, let me congratulate you on this new role.

KEILAR: Thank you.

DE BLASIO: And, listen, we have to realize what the moment we're in here. New York City is coming back right this minute getting ready for this full reopening.

What we've seen in the last weeks has been stunning progress in terms of reducing the levels of COVID, greatly increasing the numbers of vaccinations. It's not about different leaders and their views. It's really about what the people are doing.

The people are getting vaccinated and fighting back COVID. And it's working. And they're ready for a comeback.

And I got to tell you, I think "The Daily News" has it right here. This is going to be the summer for New York City. And this is what New Yorkers want.

In the end, you got to listen to the voices of people. People want to come back. They want to do it safely for sure.

But New Yorkers have actually been doing the right thing. They've been wearing the mask. They've been practicing the social distancing up to now. They've been getting vaccinated.

We need a goal to work towards and that goal is July 1st.

KEILAR: So I'm picking up that you don't really want to address this war of the words that's going on.

Look, I do think you are very correct in the reopening and people getting back to normal, being what folks should be focused on, but your press secretary said this thing, the governor said what he said, and it just seems like this is really a distraction from what you all should be focused on.

DE BLASIO: Brianna, I would say this: we are every day doing the most important work, which is getting New Yorkers vaccinated. What's been amazing is creating a grassroots vaccination effort that's really becoming more and more convenient, walk-in vaccinations all over the city.

People are getting vaccinated at the Museum of Natural History under the blue whale. It's becoming a real fun positive thing. That's the job.

Now, I tell you, I really do disagree with the governor on some very important matters, and I think, and I've been clear about it, he should not remain in office after the things that he has done.

But that doesn't change the mission. The mission is to get this city fully reopened. Our health care team work to determine what was the date that we could do it the right way. They believe in July 1st. I believe in July 1st.

We're on track to get 5 million New Yorkers vaccinated by July 1st. It's the right moment to make this move.

And you've got to set a goal in life. As the leader in New York City, my job to say, this is where we need to go. And I'm convinced, this is the right day for the reopening of New York City.

KEILAR: And, look, no doubt New Yorkers are certainly happy to see the light at the end of the tunnel here. As things do move closer to that date, are there any conditions, you know, negative conditions when it comes to the situation with COVID, that might make you reconsider that reopening date?

DE BLASIO: Brianna, important question. It's always about the data and the science. And what we've done with our health care team throughout is we've put out the information very publicly, we've spoken to it constantly. The data over the last weeks has been extraordinarily clear, constant downward pressure on COVID, less and less COVID in New York City. It's fantastic.

And it directly correlates to the numbers of vaccinations in terms of actual shots, actual doses, over 6.4 million given in New York City since this began.

[08:25:02]

But you're absolutely right to say, well, will we keep monitoring constantly for any changes or adjustments? Yes. That's the nature of making decisions based on the data and the science. But I will tell you, we used to ask, you know, would the variants win the race or would the vaccinations win the race?

The vaccinations are winning the race of this going away right now, and that's what gives us confidence that we'll be ready for July 1st.

KEILAR: Let's talk about the nursing home scandal that has enveloped Governor Cuomo. "The New York Times" is reporting that his most senior aides engaged in a, quote, sustained effort to stop state health officials from releasing the true nursing home death toll. That would be to release the numbers of folks who died from COVID because they contracted it in a nursing home even if they died somewhere else.

You have as you mentioned called for the governor to resign. But what does this reporting tell you?

DE BLASIO: Brianna, it's almost to the point where we don't need the full formal investigation because everyone is just admitting that they covered up. I mean, this has been one after another piece of evidence that there was a full-fledged cover-up, that it was explicitly to help the governor sell his book. This was one of the motivating factors, a book that he used state employees to help write.

This is separate from the many, many allegations of sexual assault, harassment that so many women have come forward with in tremendous detail. It's almost like you can't believe this one person did all these things and is still in office, and that's why I don't think he should be in office any longer.

KEILAR: All right. I do just want to note, of course, Governor Cuomo denies any wrongdoing or a cover-up.

Mayor, thank you. Thank you for coming on this morning.

DE BLASIO: Thank you so much, Brianna.

KEILAR: Up next, new comments from President Biden about race in America. You'll hear what he said.

BERMAN: Plus, police investigating the Capitol insurrection are getting a lot of help, sometimes from the suspects themselves.

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