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Interview with Michael Wood about Losing Texas Special Election; Giuliani Team Preps for Legal Fight, Hoping to Enlist Trump; Senators Demands More Infor on Microwave Attacks; Deadline Looms for Israel's Netanyahu to Form Government; Armored Truck Driver Escapes Attempted Highway Heist. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 04, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

MICHAEL WOOD (R), FORMER CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE, TX-06: Booed and -- I don't know. I think that whenever you take an oath of office you should take that seriously, and I wish, I wish that they would have.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What does it say to you? And you're a Marine. I mean, you know about bravery. But what does it say to you that somehow political bravery now has become not buying into a conspiracy?

WOOD: Yes. I mean, it feels like in a lot of ways we've gone through a looking glass, and those of us in the party who are against insurrection and lying are finding ourselves turned into fringe candidates. It's a sad commentary on the party. It's a sad commentary on the country. You know, I think that -- I mean, there are a lot of things that go into this. I think that if you run for office and if you get elected to Congress, you've got to be willing to lose it, you know, or else you can't do the job.

I think a lot of people have their egos and their entire personalities tied up with being a member of Congress, and all the perks that go along with that. I think they need to be willing to walk away from it. And I think they need to think not just about the next election or the next news cycle, I think they need to think about history. I think they need to think about how they're going to be judged and, you know, what future generations are going to say about this moment.

And unfortunately, it really does kill me to say this because as a proud or once proud Republican, we're not living up to this moment with a few brave exceptions like Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger and Mitt Romney.

BERMAN: Michael Wood, Major, we appreciate your time. Thank you for being with us this morning. We wish you the best of luck.

WOOD: Thank you very much.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: John, that was a fascinating interview. I mean, just listening to that, Michael Wood and so many people like him, he is a man without a party. And to hear him say that he's a proud and then correct himself once proud Republican, I mean, this is the direction that the Republican Party is going and it is away from people who can just be honest about what happened.

BERMAN: Yes. And you know, I think you can sense not just the frustration but he's discouraged. I mean --

KEILAR: Yes.

BERMAN: You know, I think if you said choose right now, do you think this is going to get better or worse in the next year, his heart probably would say worse at this point.

KEILAR: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean, Jamie Gangel, sitting next to you, reporting May 12th, she thinks the House Republicans are going to vote on Liz Cheney, and I think there's no reason to expect that she will maintain her leadership position. The die is cast. I mean, the choice among Republicans in leadership roles, the choice has been made.

KEILAR: And it's a sad day for a lot of Republicans, like Michael Wood. It will be here in a few days.

John, great interview. Thank you so much.

Ahead, Rudy Giuliani's legal team is gearing up for a battle which is to block access to materials seized by federal agents in an FBI raid last week, and they're hoping that former President Trump is going to join the fight.

CNN's Paula Reid is with us now live with the latest details. Tell us what's going on here.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning. An attorney for Giuliani tells me they're going to add additional lawyers to the team as the former New York mayor gears up for a legal fight over some of the materials seized by federal investigators. Last week, federal agents took Giuliani's electronic devices when they executed search warrants at his home and office.

And Giuliani claims some of the materials on those devices are covered by attorney-client privilege. And Giuliani has, of course, served as a personal attorney to former President Trump and one of Giuliani's legal advisers tells me he hopes the former president will join in the court fight. But as of now, the former president's legal team has given no indication that they intend to join this effort.

It is well known that the former president doesn't text or e-mail very much. And there might not be much of a concern about his direct communications with Giuliani being swept up in the raid, but I am told there may be discussions by others about the former president which could be challenged.

KEILAR: Interesting. And would a challenge be successful?

REID: Well, Brianna, it's such an unusual situation. But the closest comparison is another former Trump lawyer Michael Cohen. He went to court after prosecutors raided his home, office and hotel room in 2018. And he eventually got a court-appointed independent authority to review all the material and determine which documents were privileged. But it was ultimately decided that actually only a small portion of what was seized was actually protected.

KEILAR: Very interesting. Paula, thank you so much.

In a rocky policy rollout, President Biden setting a new cap on refugees allowed into the U.S. which is actually the same as his old cap. We're going to roll the tape.

BERMAN: Plus, senators getting heated in what sources say was an extremely contentious CIA briefing on suspected microwave attacks.

[07:35:05]

A live report from the State Department next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Presidential administrations twist themselves in knots over some decisions. It just happens. Walk-backs, flip-flops, 180s, double McTwist 1260s, maybe a little WD-40 to get out of a policy jam. The Biden administration is no exception and the topic here is immigration, specifically the number of refugees that the U.S. accepts each year. Here is what Biden said during his first town hall as president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We used to allow refugees, 125,000 refugees into the United States in a yearly basis. Was as high as 250,000. Trump cut it to 5,000. We the United States used to do our part.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now Biden's claim that Trump, quote, "cut it to 5,000" is reasonable but it takes some explaining here. Trump set the refugee cap for the 2021 fiscal year at a record low of 15,000 but the U.S. accepted only 1400 refugees over four months which put it on track to accept only 5,000 refugees for the year.

[07:40:09]

One hundred, twenty-five thousand, that is the goal that candidate Joe Biden set for himself while celebrating World Refugee Day just months before he'd be elected president. And he said at least 95,000 refugees would be admitted. That was his bare minimum. Many times that 15,000 refugee limit the Trump administration set for 2021, which was the lowest number of any American president since 1980. In February, things were still going as planned. But then the goal softens.

That target of 125,000 refugees falls to 62,500 in the plan that the State Department sends over to Congress. It is half the campaign promise, but it's more than four times the number of refugees Trump allowed. But then the proposal stalled as the Biden administration encountered a crisis at the border, a surge of migrants especially children. Refugees. Here we see in this headline being removed from flight. Suddenly refugees were in limbo. Hundreds of refugees had their flights postponed because Biden hadn't finalized his proposal. He unsigned it.

CNN's Kevin Liptak asked White House press secretary Jen Psaki about the drama and the delay. And Psaki told him this, quote, "We want to do it in an effective manner." Democrats were demanding answers, concerned the Biden policy in reality was looking an awful lot like the Trump policy and they cannot get answers as to why. One reason according to CNN reporting is that Biden resisted raising the refugee cap due to political optics as the right dubbed him "Open Border Joe."

Jake Sullivan, Biden's National Security adviser, endorsed keeping the Trump era cap of 15,000 for Biden's first year in office. He said, quote, "America needs to rebuild our refugee resettlement program. We will use all 15,000 slots under the new determination and work with Congress on increasing admissions and building back to the numbers to which we've committed.

Well, the outrage from liberals was swift and it was loud. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar who came to the U.S. as a Somalian refugee called it disgraceful. Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal called it unconscionable that Biden broke his promise. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted that, "upholding Trump's racist policies is wrong." And Congressman Joaquin Castro told Biden to keep his promise.

The House speaker taking the temperature of her caucus layered on the pressure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I think right now we have -- well, it's a very few thousand and we have to increase that number.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: The White House cleanup swung into action. Actually they'd be increasing the cap after all. The press secretary saying, quote, "This has been the subject of some confusion. Biden will set a final increase refugee cap for the remainder of this fiscal year by May 15th."

So what the heck happened here? The president tried to explain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: We're going to increase the numbers. We have to. The problem was that the refugee part was working on the crisis that ended up on the border with young people. We couldn't do two things at once. So now we're going to increase the number.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Roughly two weeks later the reversal via statement. Biden's revising the cap back to 62,000. Four months in and we're right back to where we started -- John.

BERMAN: So glad you charted the evolution of that, Brianna. Thank you so much.

So senators are demanding more information from the CIA on suspected microwave attacks on U.S. intelligence officers. It comes after a classified briefing last week which sources say was one of the most contentious in recent memory.

CNN's Kylie Atwood live at the State Department with more on this.

This got really heated, Kylie.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it did, John. This got heated. It was described to me as one of the most contentious briefings in this committee's recent history. And here is what happened. Senators were frustrated. Frustrated by the fact that they weren't getting more details about these alleged attacks, these suspected attacks on U.S. intelligence officers. And they were also demanding accountability.

That's accountability for the folks at the CIA who perhaps mishandled the initial cases of these suspected attacks. And they were also looking at the fact that it appears that there isn't a whole lot of interagency coordination happening here. And so they were extremely frustrated.

Now, one thing that was discussed is the fact that these cases appear to be increasing. And we have learned of previously unreported, suspected cases that emerged this year in a European country. So this is a very live and real problem facing the U.S., facing the intelligence community.

Now the Senate Intelligence Committee did not provide us with a comment on the details of the briefing that took place during the middle of last week.

[07:45:03]

But they did reference us to a statement that the chairman and the vice chairman, a bipartisan statement put out after the briefing took place on Friday. I want to read that to you, saying, quote, "The pattern of attacking our fellow citizens serving our government appears to be increasing. Our committee will continue to work with CIA Director Burns and the rest of the intelligence community to better understand the technology behind the weapon responsible for these attacks. Ultimately we will identify those responsible for these attacks on American personnel, and we will hold them accountable."

Now, the CIA pointed us to testimony from CIA Director Bill Burns that he provided to Congress. He has said that looking at this issue, getting it to the bottom of this issue, getting those medical care that they need is a top priority for him. Now, he came into the CIA after there had been a task force stood up at the end of last year. That's a CIA task force that is looking into this issue, really trying to get to the bottom of it. Now, Director Burns has also met with people at the agency who have

been impacted by these attacks. But the question now is how effective this task force can actually be? And it's clear that there's a lot more work that the agency needs to do and senators are demanding more answers to this incredibly, incredibly challenging problem.

BERMAN: I can understand why they got heated. I can understand why they want answers if this is happening, which apparently it is. It's deeply concerning.

Kylie Atwood, thank you very much.

So it's crunch time for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to form a new government and avoid a fifth Israeli election in two years. We're live in Jerusalem.

KEILAR: And it's a scene straight out of a thriller. An armored truck, the target of a highway robbery, under siege. Just wait until you see how the driver reacts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:51:10]

BERMAN: The clock is ticking for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to form a new coalition government so Israel can avoid a fifth election in two years. The deadline just hours away and right now it appears there are no takers.

CNN's Hadas Gold live in Jerusalem with the latest. Maybe five will be the charm -- Hadas.

HADAS GOLD, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I don't know, John. Netanyahu has until midnight tonight to try and prove that he can form a governing coalition. But as you noted, we have no indication that he is anywhere close.

Yesterday in a seemingly last-minute attempt he offered Neftali Bennett, the leader of a small right-wing party, an alternating leadership deal where Bennett would be prime minister for one year followed by Netanyahu. But Bennett seemed to reject the offer. Even if he had accepted, that still would not have met that Netanyahu would have necessarily had enough of the numbers to have a majority in parliament.

So what happens tonight at midnight? There are a few options on the table. Netanyahu could ask the Israeli president for an extension of the deadline for an extra two weeks. But it's not clear the Israeli president will give that to him because even when the Israeli president first gave the mandate to Netanyahu he seemed reluctant to do so because of Netanyahu's ongoing corruption trial.

The Israeli president could then also offer the mandate to the leader of another party, like Yair Lapid, the leader of the Centrist Party who is trying to cobble together a coalition of pretty much anti- Netanyahu parties in the -- and try to form a governing coalition that way. The Israeli president can also offer it back to the Knesset but all of this to say that even if the midnight deadline passes and Netanyahu has not formed a government, he will still be where he wants to be in power until another government is formed -- Brianna.

BERMAN: Hadas Gold, I'll take it. Thank you so much. It is almost farcical at this point. Brianna?

KEILAR: Heart-pounding video captures the moment that an armored van carrying loads of cash comes under siege in what was a failed heist attempt. The driver's split-second reaction amid a hail of bullets is really something to behold.

CNN's David McKenzie is live for us in Johannesburg.

This is must-see. This is an amazing situation that these folks underwent.

DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, can you imagine driving down the highway and coming under high caliber fire? This footage has really sparked shock in South Africa and across the world. Just see how this driver reacts.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCKENZIE (voice-over): Inside the cash in transit van, moments before the ambush. Behind the wheel, former police special task force veteran, Leo Prinsloo. It's his colleague's very first week on the job, the transit company said, one of the most dangerous jobs in South Africa, and this is why.

Gunmen firing AK-47s from a speeding luxury sedan. They're trying to kill Prinsloo, shoot out his tires on a highway in the capital Pretoria. He forces the sedan off the road. The threat isn't over. Security experts told us that this is the criminal's M.O. using at least four vehicles with multiple gunmen.

Watch as a white pickup comes in from the left.

They try calling for backup. Often cash in transit teams pay with their lives. On this day, they were carrying cell phones. There were more than 150 heists like this in South Africa last year alone, according to police date. Just in the last few weeks, several dramatic incidents like this one in Cape Town have shocked South Africans.

Prinsloo has been praised for his calm head and quick thinking. The police have made no arrests in the attack.

(END OF VIDEOTAPE)

MCKENZIE: Well, often there are injuries and deaths in these cases. Remarkably no one was injured in this incident, Brianna. You know, I spoke to a colleague of Prinsloo, surprisingly perhaps he says that he is ready to go back out there and do this job -- Brianna.

[07:55:07] KEILAR: Wow. And it just seems -- you know, it's something that happens a lot in South Africa, which I think a lot of folks don't realize. It's amazing to watch.

David, thank you for sharing that with us.

BERMAN: So just ahead, see how Republicans who defy Trump right after the Capitol attack are saying dramatically different things now.

KEILAR: Plus after an appearance by, yes, the Village People during a House hearing, we're going to look at the blooper reel from Congress over the past year. It is something.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: After a year full of Zoom calls, virtual learning and remote hearings, technical glitches have become a frustrating new normal. Yesterday a meeting among the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Energy and Water Development was interrupted by the Village People.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KIM SCHRIER (D-WA): I also ask this committee to support full funding for two important hydropower incentive programs within the U.S. Department of Energy's Water Power Technology Office and establish through the Energy Policy Act of 2005.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: "In the Navy you can sail the seven seas." I've always wanted to say that lyric out loud. But wait, there's more. The hearing was also played by the audio of the 1999 Tim Allen movie "Galaxy Quest."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. FRANK MRVAN (D-IN): -- of our commercial harbors to ensuring Northwest Indiana residents.