Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Liz Cheney Pens an Op-Ed Saying GOP is at a Turning Point; Mitch McConnell Vows to Stop Biden as GOP Demands Bipartisanship; Stadiums Offer Free Tickets for On-Site Vaccinations; Broadway to Begin Selling Tickets Again for the Fall; Stock Exchange to Allow Vaccinated Traders to be Unmasked; U.S. Birthrate Down in 2020; Vaccine Skeptic Explains Why She Changed Her Mind; The Liberals Who Can't Quite Lockdowns? Aired 7-7:30a ET
Aired May 06, 2021 - 07:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[07:00:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: What happened to bipartisanship?
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A top Cabinet official responding to conflict of interest claims tied to the president's trillion-dollar infrastructure plan.
KEILAR: And are liberals still following the science when they're still in love with lockdowns?
BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. It is Thursday, May 6th.
If Liz Cheney is going down, she plans to make her fight very public. The third ranking Republican in the House penned an op-ed in the "Washington Post," and she's not holding back. Cheney writes, "The Republican Party is at a turning point. We Republicans need to stand for genuinely conservative principles and steer away from the dangerous and anti-democratic Trump cult of personality. History is watching. Our children are watching."
KEILAR: Cheney frames much of her argument around the continuing efforts by Donald Trump and his supporters to undo the results of the 2020 election. She's calling for a bipartisan commission to look into the Capitol insurrection with no current members of Congress sitting on it. All of this as House Republicans prepare to oust her from her leadership position next week.
BERMAN: Joining me now, the former Republican governor of New Jersey, Christine Todd Whitman.
Governor, great to see you. Liz Cheney is losing her leadership job for one reason and one reason only. It's because she refuses to embrace or ignore the big lie. She says history is watching. What do you think history is going to say about this, Governor?
CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I think most people agree with Liz Cheney. I mean, it's clear this is not about policy. The Republican Party isn't a party anymore. It is a cult. Because when you take somebody like Liz Cheney who voted on Republican issues between 80 percent and 90 percent of the time, depending on who's counting, and want to replace her with somebody like Stefanik who voted with the party 50 percent to 60 percent of the time, and the only place where they really, really disagree is on the big lie, you're not worried about policy. You're just worried about loyalty to one man.
And that should scare everyone. That's not a political party that should be making policy for our country because it doesn't have a central core anymore. It doesn't have a policy beyond what Donald Trump tells it.
BERMAN: You think it's a cult?
WHITMAN: I do. I think it's a cult of personality and it has been for a while. The only place I would disagree with Liz Cheney on her op-ed is she said it's at a turning point. I think they turned that quite a while ago. And we saw what happened. The Capitol 6th riots -- I mean, the January 6th Capitol riots were a direct result of this feeling that the election had been stolen. Only some people actually legitimately feel this because they've been fed it for so long.
I mean, look, in Arizona they're doing a fourth recount. It's costing taxpayers over a million dollars, 1.6 anyway, and it's being run by a company that's never done this kind of thing before. The head of the company is a QAnon supporter. They are trying to keep everything hidden, not let people see, not telling anyone how they're proceeding with this, and they've already messed it up by taking blue pencils in and you're not allowed to do that because blue pencils will show up in the ballots. You could potentially change a ballot.
I mean, it's gotten out of control. The thing about our country is the right to choose our leaders and respect for the outcome of the polls.
BERMAN: So, Liz Cheney, this is going to cost her her job. There's just no question about it at this point. I guess my question to you is, to what end? What is gained here?
WHITMAN: Well, she's making it very public, so now people cannot ignore the fact that we -- the party, Republican Party -- what calls itself as the Republican Party has moved beyond being a principled party around certain core issues and moved to a cult, basically, a personality. Whatever Donald Trump says -- tells us to believe any time, that's what we will do and say. And it's going to be very hard for people to deny this.
She's bringing it straight into their faces. And you know, I disagree with her on a lot of her policy position. She was so loyal to the president on issues which I disagree. But God bless her on this one. She is standing up for the principle and she's going to lose her job over it, but she will be regarded as a true leader because of what she's doing.
BERMAN: You know, you point out that there are a lot of people who want the Republican Party, any political party, to be a big tent party, and you've pointed out you have disagreed with Liz Cheney on issues of policy, but I still think you felt comfortable being in a Republican Party with her even with those policy differences, but this different, you say.
So given that this is -- but given that this is different, my question is what reason do you think people have to stay in the Republican Party? If the Republican Party is as you say a cult, what do you say to those people staying in it still hoping for something different?
[07:05:03]
WHITMAN: Well, I'm one of those. I'm still a Republican. I'm still a registered Republican. And I'm in it because I believe our country does better with two parties, with two major parties. I don't believe that we function well given our multiplicity of levels of government if we had a multi-party system. And I think we should have two parties, a center left and a center right. And the Democrats have to be careful.
They're moving far to the left, and they're going alienate a great bulk of the population. And if you look at registration numbers, you see that reflected. The "party," quote-unquote, that's growing are the independents and the unaffiliated. Both Republicans and Democrats are losing support.
BERMAN: What is it going to take to break this cult? If the Republican Party is, as you say, a cult and has made this decision, which it seems to have made, what breaks the fever?
WHITMAN: People like Liz Cheney standing up, people like Mitt Romney. We need the Susan Collins, we need the Lisa Murkowski. We need those people who have shown the ability to work across the aisle, the understanding that there are different ways of interpreting the goals. We can agree on what the goals are for infrastructure, let's say, but let's start to work together to try to reach those goals and iron out our differences on how we approach that.
You can do that. And it needs more people like Liz Cheney standing up, even though as I said I disagree with her pretty strongly on a whole bunch of policy issues, but I respect what she's doing. And I think she is calling out those others who have, behind the scenes, said that they deplore what's going on and they don't believe the big lie, that the election was free and fair, it was met in the most challenging of times.
It was more people voted and Joe Biden won. That's it. Period, the end. 60 lawsuits that have been thrown out prove that.
BERMAN: Governor Christine Todd Whitman, we appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for the discussion.
WHITMAN: My pleasure.
BERMAN: So as we've been talking about, Kevin McCarthy is punishing Liz Cheney for telling the truth. She refused to embrace or ignore Trump's efforts to delegitimize the election, to embrace or ignore his efforts, as she says, to unravel the Constitution. She chose truth. Kevin McCarthy can't accept that. What can he accept?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So Congressman Mo Brooks, he's kept all his committee posts. Congressman Paul Gosar posted these pictures on Twitter saying, "Biden should concede. I want his concession on my desk tomorrow morning. Don't make me come over there." So how many ways did McCarthy punish Gosar for this? Zero, zero.
The same amount of time he punished Gosar for headlining the American First Political Action Conference alongside white nationalists. The group founder followed Gosar's key note by saying, "If America loses its white demographic core, then this is not America anymore." That cost Gosar nothing. But Liz Cheney, she's out of a job for telling the truth.
Matt Gaetz faces a criminal investigation for allegedly paying for sex with an underage girl. Also an ethics investigation for allegedly showing naked pictures of women on the House floor. Now he denies these allegations but his punishment so far? Zero. But Liz Cheney out of a job for telling the truth.
Jim Jordan is the lead Republican on the Judiciary Committee. At least six former Ohio State University wrestlers told CNN that he knew about sexual misconduct in place regarding team doctor Richard Strauss who is accused of sexually abusing scores of students. Again, Jordan denies this but the repercussions on his leadership position? Zero. Liz Cheney, out of a job for telling the truth.
Then there is Marjorie Taylor Greene.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): There is an Islamic invasion into our government offices right now. How do you get avid gun owners and people that support the Second Amendment to give up their guns? Maybe you accomplish that by performing a mass shooting into a crowd. A so- called plane crashed into the Pentagon. It's odd. There's never any evidence shown for a plane in the Pentagon. There's a once-in-a- lifetime opportunity to take this global cable of Satan-worshipping pedophiles out.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: So she said that all out loud. She also reportedly wondered if Jewish space lasers are to blame for starting forest fires in the West. All that, and McCarthy fought for her to keep her committee assignments.
To recap, if you're keeping score at home, calling for violence before an insurrection, casual white supremacy, allegations of paying for sex for underage -- with underage girls, accusations of ignoring sexual abuse and Jewish space lasers, those things, in Kevin McCarthy world, you have job security. But the truth will cost you. Unless, of course, you're Kevin McCarthy because for a few minutes he was willing to say this.
[07:10:08]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: He went even further in an interview with his hometown paper. McCarthy said he implored President Donald Trump during an intense hour-long phone conversation to accept hid electoral defeat and move forward with a peaceful transition of power. McCarthy pleaded with him telling him the election was over and he needed to move on.
Stop this, McCarthy recalls telling him. Stop this, McCarthy told him. Stop this. But as S.E. Hinton would say, that was then, this is now. All he's saying stop to now is the truth. Stop truth now. He has his leadership job. Liz Cheney won't. But there are worse things you can lose than a job. For instance, dignity.
KEILAR: That's really the dividing line right now. Dignity, principles, that, I mean, we're -- with the interview you just did and the ones we've seen this morning with Republicans who are behind Liz Cheney today on the show, you know, they're on one side of that line, and Kevin McCarthy and so many members of the House GOP are on the other.
BERMAN: You know, Kevin McCarthy, I want to say he knows better. He knew better. We know he knew better. But now he doesn't. It changed.
KEILAR: No. He's eyeing a speakership for sure. Thank you so much for that, John.
Republican leaders have called constantly for bipartisanship, for President Biden to reach across the aisle.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): We want to work together with this administration on true infrastructure, and I think there's a deal to be had.
SEN. ROB PORTMAN (R-OH): If the White House is going to work with us, this is a deal we can do. The infrastructure has always been bipartisan.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So they want bipartisanship except when they don't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): One hundred percent of our focus is on stopping this new administration.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So that was Mitch McConnell yesterday and this was Mitch McConnell the last time that there was a Democrat in the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCCONNELL: Our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny President Obama a second term.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: So, so much for bipartisanship. Let's discuss this with CNN politics reporter and editor at large, Chris Cillizza.
Let's listen to what -- well, we did just listen to what Mitch McConnell said about Biden's administration compared to what he said about the Obama administration, but, it's, you know, he's playing to his base, but you can't have it both ways. You can't say bipartisanship, and then but actually we're totally not doing that.
CHRIS CILLIZZA, CNN POLITICS REPORTER AND EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Yes. What's hard is you have to -- if you can believe Mitch McConnell, you have to think, like, listen to -- don't ignore everything that he says, which is kind of hard when you're a publicly elected official. I think that he is playing to a base that wants full-time, all time opposition to Joe Biden and his agenda.
Look, there's a reason you have two parties in this country, right? The direction that Joe Biden is taking the country is probably not the direction that a President Mitch McConnell would take the country. That said, every single poll says they want America to work together. And I'll note on infrastructure, on guns, on voting reform. There are things that a bipartisan group of American support. And I'll just take guns for an example. A significant bipartisan.
KEILAR: Huge.
CILLIZZA: I mean, you don't see 80 percent support for almost anything.
KEILAR: Yes.
CILLIZZA: In this country since the sky blue, 60-40. But in this case they do. And that's the question. What is bipartisanship, right? Mitch McConnell has a political agenda to get Joe Biden out of office, but the country clearly wants some bipartisan work particularly on some of these issues.
KEILAR: Yes. I mean, it's just annoying how they're unable to --
CILLIZZA: They can't do anything. KEILAR: -- get anything done on the things that so many Americans want
to see them get done. But I want to ask you because there's some great reporting from our colleague Jamie Gangel.
CILLIZZA: Yes.
KEILAR: Who reports that Kevin McCarthy is, quote, "very concerned" that the January 6th Commission could force him to actually testify about his call with Trump during the riot. I mean, yes, he probably should be concerned, right?
CILLIZZA: Yes, because, remember, our reporting is that McCarthy called Trump, or they had a conversation, and it was basically like, this is really, really bad, and McCarthy was very exercised. Now McCarthy has since, when asked about it, been like, the president and I did talk. He's done it like the -- when your kids --
KEILAR: You do a pretty good Kevin McCarthy there.
CILLIZZA: Thank you. Yes, thanks. Years of practice. A lot of work in the mirror. It's like when your kid is lying to you, and you know, like, they don't want to lie totally straight out but they don't want to tell you the truth either. Like, I did talk to the teacher in school today. What was it about? It was about behavior. Like this is what he's doing, right? He doesn't want to answer some question. And remember, a commission would have subpoena power and he'd be under oath.
[07:15:04]
And that's always the danger. Under oath, if you don't tell the truth, there are real repercussions. And so I think, an undercurrent -- and Jamie's reporting points this. An undercurrent of the Liz Cheney- McCarthy thing is that Liz Cheney as she said in that "Washington Post" op-ed, she supports this commission that he does not.
KEILAR: Yes. It's like what I say to my almost 5-year-old, honey, your eyes are telling me a different story than your mouth.
CILLIZZA: Totally.
KEILAR: Right?
CILLIZZA: Yes.
KEILAR: OK. So the former top aide to Barack Obama, David Axelrod, he has a podcast, and he had White House press secretary Jen Psaki on, and this is what she said about immigration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're often asked, why doesn't he go to the border? The important issue we're focused on it. What percentage of the public is focus on the border? A much smaller percentage than who's focused on the pandemic and the economy. So that may be maddening, but, you know, that's what we try to do. (END OF VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Thoughts, Chris Cillizza.
CILLIZZA: Well, first of all, I love that jazz track playing behind it.
KEILAR: It's good.
CILLIZZA: Axelrod, great taste there. Second, I think what this is, is that remember that Joe Biden's presidency is heavily influenced by Barack Obama's presidency. Right? Jen Psaki served in both. Joe Biden served in the Obama administration. I think what he saw there was if you let the Republican base dictate what you do day in and day out, you're going to be chasing it a lot, right? And they'll never be satisfied.
And I think, yes, immigration and what is happening at the border matters hugely to a small-ish percentage of the overall public, but a massive amount of the Republican base. And I think what the Biden administration is doing is trying to be very deliberate and say, look, we're looking at lots of polling data, and it's quite clear that coronavirus, coronavirus, the economy and coronavirus, that's what people want us to focus on.
So we're not going to go down these rabbit holes. No matter how much FOX News wants us to because there's no end. There's no, like, congratulations, Joe Biden, you did a good job. Right?
KEILAR: Yes.
CILLIZZA: That's not an outcome. And so you have to stay focused on the things that the data tells you, the American cares most about you solving and not get distracted by the day-to-day stuff. That doesn't mean immigration isn't a big issue. It obviously is. Lots of people care about it. I'll note in our poll, Joe Biden's handling of it is far more negative judged by the country than many of these other issues. He will have to deal with it. I think they're just trying to prioritize and not get distracted.
KEILAR: Yes. And not lean into -- sort of give it promotional quality to talk about it.
CILLIZZA: That's right.
KEILAR: Chris Cillizza, lovely to see you, my friend.
CILLIZZA: It's so good to see you.
KEILAR: Vaccine hesitancy and resistance putting the country's goal of herd immunity at risk. Coming up, we're going to speak with a former vaccine skeptic, and we're going to talk about what changed her mind.
BERMAN: As more Americans get vaccination, many cities and states are moving fast to reopen, so why are some liberals refusing to follow the science? KEILAR: And would Rudy Giuliani flip on former President Trump? A
biographer has a take, ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:22:11]
KEILAR: Baseball is back and in New York City with an incentive for fans to get vaccinated. This amid concerns about vaccine hesitancy potentially preventing the U.S. from reaching herd immunity. CNN has reporters covering the pandemic from coast to coast.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Jean Casarez in Manhattan. Do you want free baseball? Get a vaccine. To motivate people, baseball fans in the New York City area are going to be able to go to Yankee Stadium or Citi Field, get a Johnson & Johnson vaccine and then you'll get a voucher for a free game. Starting May 19th, full capacity seating will be available for those people that are fully vaccinated. Now if you're not vaccinated, capacity will be at 33 percent. But remember, everybody will still have to wear a mask.
VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Vanessa Yurkevich in New York. Tickets for Broadway shows are on sale starting today after Governor Cuomo gave theaters the go-ahead to open their doors on May 19th. Broadway has been dark for over a year with an estimated 100,000 people out of work. Governor Cuomo says that shows will be ready to open on September 14th at 100 percent capacity, but safety protocols are still being worked out.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Alison Kosik in New York. The New York Stocks Exchange next week will allow fully vaccinated people on the trading floor to go unmasked when socially distanced and seated at their workstations. That's according to an internal memo obtained by CNN. If moving around the trading floor, however, people will be required to wear a mask.
But current CDC guidance encourages mask use in indoor public settings even for the fully vaccinated. The CDC also notes that people should still avoid large indoor gatherings.
ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Alexandra Field in New York City. New data shows the U.S. birth rate fell to a new record low over the pandemic year, 2020, the birth rate dropping for a sixth consecutive year. The number about 3.6 million births in 2020. At the same line, and very much line, condom sales surging. Data also showing that condom sales were up about a quarter by the middle of April 2021 compared to the same period a year ago.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Our thanks to our reporters all around the country.
So coronavirus vaccine misinformation running rampant in an unexpected place. Mom groups on Facebook. CNN's Elle Reeve spoke to an expectant mother in Florida about what's
stopping her from getting vaccinated.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So are you going take the COVID vaccine?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the moment, no. I'm pregnant. But I've heard like a lot of stories about losing a baby.
REEVE: OK. What kind of stories have you heard?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I've heard like after the vaccine, they were having like issues with the baby and losing their baby and everything.
[07:25:07]
REEVE: And where do you get news about that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was an article. I'm not sure where.
REEVE: OK. And then what has your doctor said about getting the vaccine?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She hasn't said anything.
REEVE: Really?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven't really asked her about it.
REEVE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just taking caution right now.
(END OF VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Joining me now is Kim Simmons. She was initially hesitant to get vaccinated but has since changed her mind and is now fully vaccinated, which is wonderful to hear.
Congratulations, Kim. Thanks so much for joining us. Look, why? Why were you hesitant?
KIM SIMMONS, VACCINE SKEPTIC WHO CHANGED HER MIND: Well, I was hesitant mostly because the two vaccines that were available at the time were the MRNA vaccines, and they were terribly new. As far as I know, they have something to do with biology, RNA and DNA, and that's very scary. So I was quite frightened by that.
BERMAN: It absolutely is new technology. Something like this has never been done before. So that was making you nervous. What got you beyond that?
SIMMONS: Basically knowledge. I am an avid watcher of C-SPAN and I saw an epidemiologist on C-SPAN one morning talking about the vaccine trials and the thousands of people that had already taken the vaccines, and I was convinced. We were already five months into it. So I was pretty sure that it was safe at that point. So at that point, I was very excited and couldn't wait to get it. COVID is very scary.
BERMAN: It's terrifying. It's terrifying. More than half a million people have died in this country. We see what's happening in India every day. The consequences are so severe. So I guess, what would you say to the people who are still hesitant out there?
SIMMONS: I would say trust the science. I don't think it would be good to try to force people to get the vaccine, but I think they should think about their family, their community, and herd immunity. It's very important for the entire country that people get vaccinated. That's what I would say.
BERMAN: Kim Simmons, we're so glad that you're healthy. Thank you so much for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.
SIMMONS: Thank you for having me.
KEILAR: Very glad that she is healthy indeed.
Coronavirus cases have dropped to their lowest average in seven months, and with vaccines now widely available, most states are loosening restrictions, but a new article in "The Atlantic" points out that some liberals are clinging to pandemic restrictions, going even farther than science tells them to as, quote, "an expression of political identity."
Let's talk about this now with the author, staff writer at "The Atlantic," Emma Green.
Emma, this was a fascinating article that you wrote. Poll show that Republicans don't like masks. From your reporting it seems that Democrats, maybe they like them too much. It sounds like in your reporting some of them are even kind of traumatized by the pandemic and this is almost like a -- I guess like a comfort blanket for them, the mask is.
EMMA GREEN, STAFF WRITER, THE ATLANTIC: Well, you know, the CDC still recommends that Americans, even if they're fully vaccinated wear masks in certain contexts. What my article is trying to unpack was the reason why certain communities, people with a certain political identify, are potentially continuing to wear masks or hold up other policies or personal behaviors even when it goes beyond what we know based on scientific evidence about what's safe now.
KEILAR: No. It's a very good point because people are having to adjust their behavior, I think, which can always certainly be stressful. But you also talk about something that you call hygiene theater, and you say that it has consequences. Tell us about this.
GREEN: So what I noticed in my reporting, looking at liberal enclaves across America, outside of big cities, or talking to individuals who describe themselves as very progressive was a sort of attachment to behaviors or policies that we now know aren't really effective ways to stop the spread of coronavirus or have it kept up with where we are with vaccination. One of the biggest examples of this is actually from earlier in 2020.
The state of California kept playgrounds closed until December when we had known for months that surface transmission actually isn't the primary way that COVID is spread. And this seems small, maybe irrelevant, but it's a policy that had a big effect on a lot of families' lives, and I was trying to pick up on that pattern that I really did see in a lot of progressive communities where there's a clinging to certain types of behaviors even if the science doesn't really back them up.
KEILAR: Yes, and look, as you mentioned, guidance says to wear masks in certain situations even if you're vaccinated. So I think we just want to be very clear to people to look at what that guidance says. But one of the things you also talk about, I mean, this piece is fascinating, you cover so much in it.
