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Pfizer Applies for Full FDA Approval; India's Deaths Continue; Stefanik Once Blasted Trump; Alberto Gonzales is Interviewed about Replacing Cheney. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 07, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Brianna Keilar in Washington, alongside John Berman in New York on this NEW DAY.

Breaking news, the first drugmaker asking for full approval for its coronavirus vaccine in the U.S. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will tell us what that means.

BERMAN: Some Republicans are questioning Elise Stefanik's conservative credentials as she is set to replace Liz Cheney.

KEILAR: And the war on voting expands to Texas, Florida and Arizona as the big lie turns into law.

BERMAN: And a suspect charged with breaking into the Capitol on January 6th blaming the lies he was fed on right-wing media.

KEILAR: A very warm end of week welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Friday, May 7th.

And we are beginning with some breaking news that Pfizer is submitting an application, just moments ago, for full FDA approval of its coronavirus vaccine for every American 16 and older. That would make it the first COVID vaccine in the U.S. to be evaluated for full approval, not just for emergency use.

BERMAN: So here's the significance. If the FDA grants full approval, Pfizer will be able to market and distribute its vaccine directly to consumers. That's just one thing that's significant here. The company has requested priority review asking the FDA to make a decision within the next six months.

So let's bring in chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, explain to us what exactly this means, the difference between full approval and emergency use approval and really the number of things this opens up.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.

OK, so there's a little bit of history here. Emergency Use Authorization, which is what we have now for Pfizer, as well as Moderna and Johnson & Johnson, is a relatively new process. In fact, this is -- these are really the first vaccines that have ever had Emergency Use Authorization where the bar for that was basically just simply to show, do the benefits of this product outweigh the risks in the middle of a public health disaster, public health emergency as we were seeing. And that's -- that's what sort of the criteria was.

With approval, as you might guess, you need to have more data, lots more data and ultimately you have to show that the product is safe and effective.

Now, I want to be clear, it doesn't mean that the authorized product wasn't safe and effective, it's just that the bar of data that you now have to show has to prove that, you know, with even more data. So this is what Pfizer -- some of the data Pfizer's going to be presenting, six months of data showing, how does it work against placebo for basics, moderate and minimal disease, and how does it work against severe disease. If we have the numbers, we can put those up. But basically it showed a lot of the same sort of data that we've seen under emergency use authorization, quite safe, quite effective in those things. And, typically -- there you go -- symptomatic disease, 91.3 percent efficacy. The important number, severe disease, 100 percent efficacy. Meaning that nobody really had severe disease in the group of people who received the vaccine versus placebo.

More practically speaking, you sort of alluded to this, you're going to be able to now directly market to consumers. You know, one thing we haven't really seen yet are direct ads to consumers. We may see those if this has approval.

But also, I think on a practical level, you know, as we've been reporting on this, there's a lot of organizations that have wanted to encourage, you know, schools, for example, to take the vaccine, but if it's authorized, you know, that's a harder case to make. If it's an approved vaccine, that might make it easier for some of these organizations to, in fact, mandate it. We don't know for certain. We're sort of all going through this for the first time. And really, again, we had some of the first authorized, emergency use authorized vaccines ever in our history and now we'll have some of those possibly transition to approvals in our history for the first time.

KEILAR: What does this mean, Sanjay, for curbing the spread of virus in that some folks may have looked at the Emergency Use Authorization and been waiting to know that it was more of a standard authorization?

GUPTA: Yes, I think that that -- that's a real thing. You know, I mean, just talking to people around the country, I think the hesitancy that we talk about and show over and over again, some of it is driven by this idea that if this is just an Emergency Use Authorization, has it gone through the full approval process? It's a fair question and there's a lot in that question.

And, again, I don't want to suggest in any way that the emergency use authorized vaccines that are out there are not safe and effective. We've shown the process by which they've gone through. This is a more rigorous process. And that may give people some more comfort in taking a vaccine like this. It may reduce that hesitancy. We'll see. Even in years past with other products, you know, there's roughly, you know, 15 to 20 percent of the country that may still remain hesitant no matter what.

[07:05:05]

No matter if it's approved, if it's authorized, whatever. But this may help in that -- sort of that moveable middle group of people.

BERMAN: My understanding is the military hasn't required, hasn't made it mandatory for vaccinations until it is fully approved. So that's one area, an immediate area, a concrete area that could change with the snap of a finger.

GUPTA: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: Which would be interesting to see.

Sanjay, stick around because we're going to turn now to the COVID outbreak in India, which is in so many ways getting worse by the hours. The country reporting back-to-back days with record-breaking cases. More than 414,000 in the last 24 hours.

Clarissa Ward live on the ground in Varanasi, India.

Clarissa, tell us what's happening there.

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: On the banks of the River Ganges, this is one of the most sacred and spiritual places in this country. It's also the constituency of India's prime minister, Narendra Modi. And he hasn't visited here since last November. But this city of Varanasi has been one of the hardest hit.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (voice over): The cremations start before dawn as workers still clean away the embers of the night before. Nestled on the banks of the River Ganges, Varanasi is India's holiest city, but it has not been spared by the vicious second wave of coronavirus ripping through the country. As day breaks, Machu Chowtary (ph) waits for the rush to begin. His family has worked in the crematorium for generations. But, he says, they've never seen anything like this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About 100, 140, 150 body per day. Every --

WARD (on camera): And what would you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every five minute, ten minute after ambulance bring the body.

WARD (voice over): Officially, the government says that eight to ten people are dying here of coronavirus every day. But the real figure is clearly much, much higher.

Confronted with that reality, authorities have had to improvise.

WARD (on camera): Varanasi's main crematorium has been so overwhelmed by the number of deaths that the city has had to set up a sort of make-shift crematorium. You can see it up here. This is just for COVID deaths.

WARD (voice over): A steady flow of bodies is coming in. We get off the boat to take a closer look.

More ambulances are arriving, bringing the dead and grieving family members in full protective gear. They are sprayed with disinfectant before they can begin the last rites.

But there is no way of sanitizing the deep sense of loss. During the two hours we spend here, seven bodies are brought in.

Critics say the government has been negligent in its mishandling of this crisis, that many lives could have been saved.

Nirmal Gupta (ph) tells us he never imagined he would say good-bye to his father this way.

WARD (on camera): Has the government done enough to stop this second wave?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. Not enough.

WARD: Much more efforts were required, he say. Varanasi needed a full lockdown but the government didn't do it. It was incompetence.

The situation in the city has become so bad that shortages have been reported of wood needed for the funeral pyres.

Merchant Depop Chautery (ph) says the demand is four times higher than usual.

As long as I've worked here, I've never seen so many dead bodies coming in, he says. The last month has shocked me.

WARD (on camera): Is it true that you're running out of wood in some places?

WARD (voice over): The three main suppliers had run out of wood, he tells us. The local administration had to interview.

Death has always been part of the fabric of life in Varanasi. For centuries, people have come here to die. The belief is that the sacred waters of the River Ganges will help their bodies achieve moksha, liberation from the cycle of death and rebirth.

But the shattering toll of this scourge has shocked everyone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's a really bad situation right now. And every household -- every household is facing this.

[07:10:02]

I don't think there's any family that has been spared. WARD: As the sun sets, the sound of the evening prayer pierces the

smoky air. The next wave of the dead is brought in and the cycle begins again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD: Actually implement that full lockdown last Friday, John and Brianna, and it has been extended until Monday. And there are signs, although it's still early, that it's starting to take effect. It's a little bit difficult to trust those government figures, but talking to the people who have been working at this crematorium for many generations, they say that they are starting to see a dip in the numbers. But, of course, the question remains, what happens when you lift that lockdown? And there is a lot of pressure to lift it because these lockdowns are economically crippling for the people who live under them.

John. Brianna.

KEILAR: Indeed they are.

And, Clarissa, if you could stay with us, we're bringing in Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, I know you have some questions for Clarissa.

GUPTA: Yes.

Clarissa, first of all, just amazing reporting, you and Scottie (ph). I mean I recognize so many of those places. It's hard to see. Those images are so heartbreaking.

I'm curious when you're in places like New Delhi and they say they're in lockdown for a period of time, I mean we remember in the United States, lockdown for, you know, essentially workers, front line workers was impossible. I mean people were out and about. What -- is lockdown for real even in places like New Delhi?

WARD: Well, I'll say this, Sanjay, the lockdown that you've seen in New York City or that I've seen in London doesn't look like the lockdown here. So in Varanasi, for example, markets can be open every day until about 11:00 a.m. and the streets are busy during those hours. There was also a wedding in our hotel last night.

And on the streets of Delhi, you know, as you say, it's just not realistic. If you can't get oxygen for your loved ones and you have to go and wait in a line for ten hours sometimes, then you're not in the position of have the luxury of social distancing.

This is a fight for survival and terms like "lockdown" and "social distancing" just don't really apply when you're in that kind of situation and you're desperately trying to source things to save the lives of your loved ones, Sanjay.

And also, wait, Sanjay, can I just ask you a question while I've got you here because I -- GUPTA: Sure.

WARD: One thing that I've been really trying to get a better understanding of is this idea of herd immunity because we've heard so much about it and with more than 20 million cases now in this country, at what stage would India maybe expect to achieve herd immunity? Is there some potential in the future for the extraordinary suffering of these people to be mitigated somehow?

GUPTA: Right. Well, you know, Clarissa, I think there's two things here. First of all, I think a lot of people have been wondering for some time why India had not been hit harder earlier on. I mean very population-dense areas, obviously. Vaccinations, obviously, the rollout very, very slow there, in the single digit percentage.

But in terms of herd immunity overall, in a country of nearly 1.4 billion people, you're talking about, you know, a billion people having some form of immunity. A lot of that immunity, as you point out, may come from just natural infection, which is a very tough way to get to that point. But the other part of it has to come probably from the vaccinations, which have just been a small, you know, percentage of the country so far.

So we don't know the exact number. Herd immunity is dependent on how contagious the virus is at any given time. As you go into the warmer and more humid months, the contagious of the virus may go down, so the threshold for herd immunity may go down. But it seems like this, Clarissa, they're really not anywhere close. I've looked at some of the testing data, which is not adequate, but from what we can tell, from the testing data of both virus and antibodies, 20 percent, 30 percent of the country maybe has that sort of protection when you need closer to 70 percent.

BERMAN: Really, it's an issue of scale. When you're dealing in India, so much of this is trying to even understand how much worse the problem could be there because of how much more populated it is.

Sanjay, one quick question in terms of what we are seeing in India, the variant that was first spotted there. The CDC now says it's on that list of variants of interest. What does that mean?

GUPTA: So there's variants of interest and there's variants of concern. Variants of interest basically mean this is something that think -- we think the mutations are worth taking a closer look at but there's not even real evidence yet around that variant. It's not to say that won't be the case but there's not evidence yet that it's actually more transmissible or more lethal.

[07:15:04]

This particular variant that they're talking about in India is in some ways a combination of other variants, one of which has existed in South Africa and one has existed in California. But in aggregate, again, they think it's worth taking a closer look at but they don't quite know how to categorize it or if it's going to be something that's more transmissible. I think the important point there is that this is not -- what is

happening in India, what Clarissa has been reporting, is not necessarily due to some mutant variant that has overwhelmed the country. That has happened is exactly what Clarissa has been saying, which is that, you know, they let their guard down and a contagious virus is already out there and it started to spread more and more amidst all those big religious pilgrimages and celebrations and political rallies and all that sort of stuff. So the basic problem is what really drove this here.

KEILAR: We want to thank you both so much for talking with us about this.

I mean, Clarissa, you have been bringing us these important reports day after day from India, really taking us into what is a disaster and showing us what is happening on the ground. Today, no exception. Thank you on so much for your stellar reporting.

GUPTA: Thank you, Clarissa.

KEILAR: New York Congresswoman Elise Stefanik on track to become the highest ranking Republican woman on the House, but some of her past comments and votes are raising questions about her conservative credentials.

BERMAN: Arizona's partisan election audit might as well be looking for Bigfoot at this point. Here are the latest bizarre conspiracy theories.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm getting there. Don't worry, buckwheat, I'm getting there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And a Republican facing fierce backlash for saying that to a fellow lawmaker. What he's saying now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:57]

KEILAR: By this time next we're, Elise Stefanik will likely have replaced Liz Cheney as the third ranking Republican in the House. The New York congresswoman is riding the big lie to a GOP leadership position, but she hasn't always been a Trump loyalist.

CNN's Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill.

This is quite the evolution that she has had, Lauren.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, that's exactly right, Brianna. And a new K-file investigation has shown that before President Trump was in office, when he was campaigning, she was someone who had several statements that she made against then- candidate and early on in his presidency, then President Donald Trump. Of course, Stefanik on track to take that top GOP leadership position, the number three position, in the House Republican Conference showing that Donald Trump still has a stranglehold on the GOP.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: In a few hours, Representative Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene are kicking off Gaetz's America First Tour in a retirement community in Florida, aimed at whipping up support for former President Donald Trump. The goal, to rally people who voted for Trump, many of whom believe his big lie, that the 2020 election saw rampant voter fraud, despite no evidence to support such claims.

It comes as another Trump loyalist, Congresswoman Elise Stefanik, seems poised to take a key position in the House Republican leadership. The New York representative is the front-runner for the Republican conference chair position held by embattled Congresswoman Liz Cheney.

Stefanik is now a firm supporter of Trumps, speaking to his former adviser, Steve Bannon, she endorsed a controversial partisan recount happening now in Arizona.

REP. ELISE STEFANIK (R-NY): I fully support it. Transparency is a good thing. We need to fix these election security issues going into the future.

FOX: But Stefanik was not always so in line with the former president.

In 2015, she criticized Trump when he insulted moderator Megyn Kelly after a Republican primary debate.

STEFANIK: I think he has been insulting to women. I think this may be Mr. Trump's peak moment and I think we're going to see his numbers change, you know, and decline over the coming weeks and months as the other candidates have an opportunity to share their vision for the future of this country.

FOX: And Stefanik wrote this after the release of the "Access Hollywood" tape in which Trump boasted about sexually assaulting women. Donald Trump's inappropriate, offensive comments are just wrong. No matter when he said them or whatever the context, I hope his apology is sincere.

She also criticized Trump's main campaign initiative to build a wall along the southern border, telling a local paper, quote, I think that you can use technology to have better security along the Mexican border. Far too often securing the border has been a political talking point for the past 10 to 12 years. And there hasn't been enough kind of common sense discussions about what that actually means.

Once Trump took office in 2017, Stefanik held firm on her stance saying, quote, I don't think that's realistic. I don't think the president's plan is exactly right on that. In 2015, Stefanik also disagreed with Trump's calls for a Muslim ban,

saying, this is not who we are as a country. This is not according to our constitutional principle and I associate myself with Speaker Ryan's comment, just saying there is no place for what Trump said about Muslims in this country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX: The expectation, of course, is that next week, when House lawmakers return from their recess, the House Republican conference will hold a conference meeting where we expect the Virginia Fox, a congresswoman in the Republican Party, will bring a resolution to oust Cheney. Of course, that coming in just a matter of days.

Brianna.

KEILAR: We will be watching. Lauren Fox, thank you so much for that.

[07:25:02]

BERMAN: All right, joining me now, former U.S. attorney general under George W. Bush, Alberto Gonzales. He's now the dean at Belmont University Law School.

I'm really excited to talk to you this morning because of a conversation we had before. I asked you once if you thought you could win a primary in Texas now where you lived and worked for so many years. And your response to me was, I'm not sure George W. Bush could win a primary in Texas now.

So, given that, given what you see as the state of the Republican Party, I'd be curious what your feelings are when you see what's happening to Liz Cheney and the House Republican leadership?

ALBERTO GONZALES, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: You know, John, I'm disappointed, quite frankly.

Listen, if so-called conservatives want to remove one of the more conservative members out of leadership in the Republican caucus, obviously that's their call to make, but it does not change the fact of what happened on January 6th, which was really an assault on our constitutional order. And it does not change the fact that Donald Trump lost the election.

And so I think that -- those two factors are much, much more important, quite frankly, than who is in leadership. But I will say that I'm disappointed about what's going on in the caucus. I have a great deal of respect for the Cheneys. Dick Cheney and I didn't always agree on issues, but I had no question whatsoever about his love and devotion for the rule of law and his love for America. And I feel the same way about Liz Cheney.

And, again, it's disappointing to see what's going on in the caucus. But, again, for my -- from my perspective, the two main points we should not lose sight of is what happened on January 6th. And that was prompted, encouraged by the fact that people are going around, including Donald Trump, saying that the election was fraudulently -- was stolen and that there's just no evidence that that, in fact, happened.

BERMAN: It's interesting you bring this up because there's this audit going on in Arizona right now and we learned yesterday, this is a partisan-led audit being run by Republicans with this private firm out of Florida, that one of the things -- well, we learned one of the things they're looking for on these ballots, I think we have some sound. I want to play this to you and get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRAKEY, OFFICIAL HELPING TO OVERSEE ARIZONA AUDIT: There's accusations that 40,000 ballots were flown in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To Arizona?

BRAKEY: To Arizona. And it was stuffed into the box, OK? And it came from the southeast part of the world, Asia, OK. And what they're doing is to find out if there's bamboo in the paper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: They're looking for traces of bamboo on the ballots in Arizona.

Attorney General, I mean, what are we supposed to make of that?

GONZALES: I don't make much of it, quite frankly. Listen, anybody can make accusations about anything, John. And so, again, even if it were -- even if this is found to be true, it doesn't change the ultimate results of the election.

And, you know, at some point it has to stop. Again, there have been countless recounts, multiple challenges in the court -- over 60 challenges in our courts, multiple statements, confirmations by Republican state officials at the highest level about the integrity of the elections within their respective states. It's got to stop, John, it's got to stop. We've got so many serious issues in this country, and Republicans need to focus on those issues, quite frankly, moving forward.

BERMAN: We saw you -- I mean you were almost laughing listening to that. And I know you don't think it's funny, I mean or maybe you do. I just -- I'm curious why that was the response that it elicited when you heard that guy talking about looking for bamboo.

GONZALES: Well, because it sounds pretty incredible, doesn't it? And again, people can say anything that they want. And I guess we can -- we can do investigations day after day after day after day hoping to find something. No election is perfect, so we're going to find some irregularities. We may even find some evidence of, you know, light voter fraud. But nowhere near enough to make a difference in the outcome of what happened in November.

And so, as I said, I think it's well past time to look beyond the election and focus on the problems that are confronting the American people. We've got some serious issues here beginning with COVID. We're making great progress there. We've got challenges from around the world, in particular China. And so we need to focus on the issues that are important, the economy, the issues that are important to the American people.

BERMAN: It almost literally is looking for Bigfoot at this point. If you're searching for traces of bamboo because you're chasing reports of 40,000 ballots were shipped in, it really is almost looking for Bigfoot.

One question on the Justice Department.

[07:29:54]

There was a federal judge who put out a statement this week that was really harsh on former Attorney General William Barr, basically saying that testimony that the Justice Department had given, submissions the Justice Department had given had been misleading about this alleged memo.