Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Eighty-Five People, Mostly School Girls Killed In A Horrific Car Bombing In Afghanistan; Parents Around The World Prepare To Have "The Talk" About Gender Bias To Their Children; "Wall Street Journal" Reports Melinda Gates Has Been Meeting With Divorce Attorneys Since 2019. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 10, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JITARTH JADEJA, FORMER QANON FOLLOWER: No worries. Have a good day guys.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: It's so amazing, John, to hear someone who has been through this and come out on the other side. But you also hear from him how difficult, really how wicked a problem this is to solve.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Yes, I know. I -- yes, you're absolutely right. But, you know, what I struggle with is these people are making really bad decisions and a lot of this is on them. And I know they're being brainwashed and it's one of these brainwash centers.

I mean, people can be tricked into a lot of different things. But at a certain level there is some personal responsibility here and people just have to smarter than this. They have to better than this, than buy half the crap that they're buying into.

KEILAR: Yes. And there are a lot of people spreading it. Fox hosts aren't the only prominent people giving anti-vacs conspiracies a platform. They're getting help from one United States Senator in particular and that is Ron Johnson who is a Republican from Wisconsin.

Appearing on a right wing radio show questioning why the U.S. is trying to vaccinate the general population. And like Fox's Chief Anti- Science Officer, Johnson pushes the conspiracy theory like, what, I'm just asking the question.

The first claim, Johnson falsely says thousands of deaths are from vaccines.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNS (R), WISCONSIN: Well I can report what's being reported out of the VAERS system. The Vaccine, I can't remember what's it's called, Adverse Effect Reporting System, something like that. And so it reports that it's an imperfect system.

In general, the key complaint is that the very small percentage of adverse effects actually get reported. So, you know, again you have to take this a grain of salt, but according to the VAERS system we are over 3,000 deaths after -- within 30 days of taking the vaccine.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

KEILAR: Truly, madly, deeply false. First, the system which he refers to is not an official vetted report. Anyone can submit a report. And the system's website says it contains information that is, quote, "Incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental or unverifiable."

They system's purpose is for the CDC to monitor adverse vaccine events and follow up investigations. It's like a type line. When CNN asked Senator Johnson's office comment we were told, quote, "The Senator is not suggesting the deaths were directly caused by the COVID vaccine," and that Johnson is instead calling for submissions to the system that they, quote, "Taken seriously and research what is going on."

But I mean is that really his point? Because they, this tip line, they're already doing that. Since December of last year more than 245 million doses of the vaccine have been given and according to the CDC that reporting system received 4,100 reports of deaths of people who got the vaccine. That's 0.0017 percent, and quote, "A review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsy and medical records has not established a causal link to the COVID vaccines."

So of those 4,100 there is no -- no proven link that they died because of a COVID vaccine.

BERMAN: So Johnson's second unscientific claim that there is a risk of death for people who get the vaccine who were previously infected with COVID, keep in mind he was infected with COVID last year.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHNSON: I'm talking to doctors who have since day one been concerned about the vaccinating people who have already had COVID because you die not of COVID, you die of the immune system's overreaction to COVID. And so there's a concern there.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: Completely, utterly, fantastically wrong. The vaccines are safe and recommended for people who have already had COVID. The CDC recommends you get vaccinated even if you have had it, because quote, "Experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID."

Our colleagues (inaudible) Tara Subramaniam spoke to doctors when fact-checking this including one doctor at Emory Vaccine Center who said, shock, he is not aware of any data to support Senator Johnson's allegation. Another says, even if you have been infected there's no guarantee you develop immunity from it.

Here's the problem, those who listen to Ron Johnson spew this nonsense on the radio likely won't see or hear this fact-check. Instead, they'll believe it, repeat it as fact and refuse to get a vaccine for false reasons.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

JOHNSON: It just doesn't make sense and that's what -- that's what concerns me. That's where I start asking a lot more questions, where I start getting a lot more inquisitive when things don't make sense to me I ask questions.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

BERMAN: Ron Johnson graduated with a degree in accounting more than 40 years ago. He's not a doctor, he's not a scientist.

KEILAR: And he doesn't listen to people who are. Hospitalizations, deaths, cases they are down significantly across the U.S. That is not because of herd immunity, that's not because everyone has suddenly gone into lockdown. It is in large part due to vaccines, which nearly half of the U.S. population has received at least one dose of.

[07:35:00]

Does he not understand how science works? We're just asking the question.

BERMAN: Eight-five people, mostly school girls, killed in a horrific car bombing in Afghanistan. Is this the path ahead as the U.S. begins bringing troops home?

KEILAR: And Congress lending credibility to a fringe theory about the origins of the coronavirus outbreak.

[07:35:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:39:30]

BERMAN: We're learning more about a horrific attack in Afghanistan that has killed at least 85 people, most of them young school girls. This is just horrifying. One hundred forty-seven were wounded this weekend as well in the bombing. Families gathered Sunday in Kabul to bury the young victims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): She was 15-years-old and was studying in class eight. She was very intelligent and didn't miss a single day of school. Yesterday her mother told not to go to school. But she said, no, I will go today but I will not go tomorrow. She told the truth and we buried her here today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:40:00]

BERMAN: The sadness there, it's hard to imagine what these families are going through.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh joins us now live with more. And Nick, from a policy perspective the question is do we risk seeing more of this as U.S. troops continue their withdrawal?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Sadly I think we will see an uptick of violence, particularly of this incompressible disgusting extremist nature, as I think there is a battle not only for territory but also for the hard-core end of our ideology amongst Afghanistan's insurgents and extremists.

But let's just go back over the facts of this. As these girls were leaving their school shift on Saturday at 4:30 the first car bomb exploded to catch as many of them frankly as it could. And then as people rushed to help two more went off to catch yet further victims.

The death toll initially 25, startling rising up to 85 at this stage with nearly 150 injured. Frankly mind boggling numbers, one of the worst atrocities I can recall in 20 years of war, frankly, in Afghanistan.

And why young girls? Well, there are many different possible reasons here. None of the viable in any logical mind. Some say that perhaps extremists find the idea of girls being educated, we've seen more of it with the U.S. presence there as something abhorrent they want to stop.

The Taliban have been sort of on the fence about this over the past years or so and they've denied any involvement in this attack. Others pointing towards different extremists.

Another possible reason too why this school? Well, it's in an area of Kabul predominantly populated by the Shia minority there. They're often targeted by extremists in Afghanistan as well.

But all of this followed a pattern, frankly, of violence that Afghans have tolerated over the past years. Often less attention has been paid to it, but so many more, I think, will look now exactly at attacks like this that sadly may continue in the months ahead as an evidence of the security vacuum because American forces are leaving by September.

Beginning on May 1, increasingly fast in their pace of withdrawal. The concern is, of course, the insurgency moves forward on the ground. That there is this ideological fight to be the most extreme, the most disgusting almost, amongst that wide-sprawling two-decades-old group of insurgents.

And also, too, to prove that the Afghan government now some degree on its own in the fight to hold Kabul and other parts of Afghanistan away from the Taliban that the Afghan government can't provide security.

You're going to see more bleak scenes like this, John. Hopefully not as awful as what we saw this weekend, but more scenes like this in the months ahead as that U.S. withdrawal picks up pace. Frankly, it was an ugly (ph) decision by President Joe Biden. Nobody knew good would come of it. Nobody thought good would come of it. And now we're beginning to see possibly how those dangers for ordinary Afghans are escalating. John?

BERMAN: Yes, and a fight to prove who is the most disgusting, Nick, it's only the people, it's only the innocent who lose. Thank you so much for your reporting. Nick Paton Walsh.

More than a year into the coronavirus pandemic and the world still does not know the exact origins of the virus. The Chinese government has not cooperated with global efforts to investigate, but now Republicans in Congress are launching an investigation into the theory that the virus came from a leak it a lab in Wuhan.

Here to discuss CNN Political Analyst and "Washington Post" Columnist Josh Rogin. His is the author of the book, "Chaos Under Heaven: Trump, Xi, and the Battle for the 21st Century.

And Josh has written extensively about this issue in his book and in columns in the "Washington Post" over the year. Way out ahead of this, Josh, what's the significance now that there is this, you know, official avenue for investigation within the U.S. Congress?

JOSH ROGIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well it's very significant John. I mean, for over a year we've had basically no Congressional investigation and no real investigation at all into the still yet unproven but possible theory that the coronavirus outbreak was linked in some way to an accident in one of the Wuhan labs that was studying about coronaviruses.

Now we know that the Office of Director of National Intelligence is investigating this theory, Avril Haines our Director of National Intelligence said so. We know that the WHO tried to but didn't really investigate this theory.

So now with 580,000 U.S. deaths, 3 million worldwide, more people are joining this question for an obvious reason is that it's a plausible theory. Not that we're saying it came from the lab, just that we're saying that this can't be ruled out. And so we need to get to the bottom of it for the sake of our national security and then our public health.

BERMAN: There seems to have been a reluctance over the last year from the likes of Dr. Anthony Fauci specifically and other scientific experts in the United States to give this notion much credence. Why? What does that tell you?

ROGIN: Right. There's been a lot of reluctance by the scientists who are closest to the lab. And that starts with Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance, but it also includes Anthony Fauci and others who's work has been to work with these Wuhan labs including on bad coronaviruses, including on research that is meant to make these viruses more dangerous.

[07:45:00] In other words if the lab were to be implicated, and we're not saying that we know, we're just saying that we need to check it out, this would implicate this entire field of research. That's a very understandable reason why the American scientists who are connected to this research don't want it looked into.

Unfortunately there -- it's going to have to be looked into one way or the other and that's not going to be easy. But there are more and more scientists saying that we need to look into this, including Robert Redfield and many others who are saying, listen, it's not politics. It's not about whether Trump was right. It's not even about whether we were right last year.

It's about just getting to the bottom of this crucial question. That means investigating all the possible theories, including the national origin theory and the lab accident theory and taking the politics out of this.

BERMAN: Yes. And, of course, the reason it's been so difficult to get these answers is because China has been incredibly opaque here and not wanted any questions even being asked let alone investigated. Josh Rogin --

ROGIN: Well, that's exactly right.

BERMAN: Yes.

ROGIN: You know, just -- that's just one thing. China has engaged in a year-long cover-up, but we can start this investigation now, at home, here with the information that we have here. And it must start now for the sake of our national security and public health.

BERMAN: Josh Rogin we appreciate you joining us and we appreciate you pressing on this issue.

ROGIN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Still ahead, Michelle Obama's candid remarks about the Derek Chauvin trial and how she feels about her own daughters getting behind the wheel.

KEILAR: And new details from the "Wall Street Journal" revealing the billionaire divorce drama with Bill and Melinda Gates that it had been in the works for years.

[07:46:30]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:50]

KEILAR: Michelle Obama is speaking candidly about her reaction to the Derek Chauvin verdict and how it feels to be the mother of two black teenage daughters in America right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF UNITED STATES: Every time they get in a car by themselves I worry about what assumption is being made by somebody who doesn't know everything about them.

The fact that they are good students and polite girls, but maybe they're playing their music a little loud, maybe somebody sees the back of their head and makes an assumption. I, like so many parents of Black kids have to -- that the whole -- that the innocent act of getting a license puts fear in our hearts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Let's talk about this now with CNN Political Analyst April Ryan, who is White House Correspondent at The Grio and the author of, "At Mama's Knee: Mothers and Race in Black and White."

April, I am so happy to have you on talk about this. We covered the Obama administration together, you covered the entirety of it.

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes we did.

KEILAR: But I want to ask you, just a question as a mom, you know you are a mom of two kids as well and I wonder what it meant to you to hear that coming from the former first lady?

RYAN: Well Brianna, it's great to be with you and congratulations on the show. You know as a mother of two Black teenagers who's daughter is 18 and drives and her 13-year-old rides along with her I feel her fear.

The first lady -- the former first lady is talking about implicit bias and profiling that sometimes happens in a lot of these cases that we hear, these crescendo moment cases that we hear about.

And Brianna, it reminds me of something when we covered then President Barak Obama, something that he said and the world lost their mind and I didn't understand why, when the president then said, you know, if Trayvon Martin in 2012, if Trayvon Martin where my son he -- my son would look like him. You know, if I had a son Trayvon Martin would look like him.

And people didn't understand and at the base of this it was an inconvenient truth that some people just didn't want to grab a hold. That there is an issue in this nation of bad policing. And you have to remember, when there are traffic stops police are supposed to have probable cause, but there are those instances of profiling and implicit bias.

KEILAR: Yes, I mean look, this is something -- my kids are little, but I have two kids of color.

RYAN: Yes.

KEILAR: And I wonder what --

RYAN: Yes. KEILAR: -- you know, what is this going to mean here in the coming years when they're not almost five and almost three, you know, what are the conversations going to be like? And you write about this topic extensively --

RYAN: Yes.

KEILAR: -- in your second book --

RYAN: Yes.

KEILAR: -- "At Mama's Knee."

RYAN: Yes.

KEILAR: How have you learned to speak with your kids about I mean all these stories that we're seeing and all of the race related news coverage that, you know, has really come to the forefront?

RYAN: Well Brianna, you like many of us, will have to have that talk. It's called the talk. And it's not just Black men talking to their Black sons. It is now parents, mothers and fathers, talking to their children of both genders.

You know, what that talk looks like is explaining, look, this is the reality of what happens. This is what happens if, indeed, you are stopped by a police. You're supposed to comply and then get home and complain later. You're supposed to have your hands in plain sight so the police can see. These are the stories we have to tell our children for survival. And it's interesting that so many people do not understand this is part of our growing up.

This is what former First Lady Michelle Obama was talking about, even though she has been on a lofty perch and still sits there, her children are susceptible. And she and her husband, when they are not maybe accompanied by Secret Service and just walking, they are susceptible being -- while Black, driving while Black, whatever while Black, it is an inconvenient truth that certain segments of America have to have a conversation, a real life and death conversation with their children.

[07:55:00]

And just recently with the White death, I had to talk to my children. I brought them in room and said, look, what would you do if this happened? How would we handle it? Even with my six foot three brother, who is a gentle giant, who told me just recently and it hurt my heart, he had a gun put to his head during a police stop.

That is reality for some people in this nation, particularly those of color.

KEILAR: Yes. And for moms who want, you know, we're so afraid --

RYAN: Yes.

KEILAR: -- of someone seeing our kids not the way we see them, you know. And we want to protect them.

RYAN: Exactly.

KEILAR: April, thank you so much for --

RYAN: And the way they are, not just the way we see them.

KEILAR: Yes. The way they are --

RYAN: Yes.

KEILAR: -- they are. We see them as they are, right? April --

RYAN: Yes. Right.

KEILAR: -- thank you so much for coming on for this conversation. I really appreciate it.

The most significant attack ever on --

RYAN: I appreciate you Brianna (ph).

KEILAR: -- the most significant attack ever on America's energy infrastructure. Who is behind it? How much will gas cost because of it the next time that you pull up to the pump?

BERMAN: Plus just in, a big development in the hunt for one of Alexei Navalny's doctors who had vanished. This is "New Day."

[07:56:06]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:59:15]

BERMAN: The "Wall Street Journal" reports that Melinda Gates had been meeting with divorce attorneys since 2019 about ending her marriage to Bill Gates. She reportedly had these conversations with some lawyers around the time the Microsoft Co-founder's ties to accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein first became public.

CNN's Brynn Gingras joins us now. So Brynn, give us the latest on this.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes John, this was a divorce that shocked a lot of -- or a depending divorce that shocked a lot of people, wondering what went wrong with this power couple of 25 years.

Well the "Wall Street Journal" giving a little bit of insight, reporting this morning Melinda Gates had been discussing this divorce with lawyers since at least two years ago. That's according to people familiar with the matter and a former employee of their charity.

And one reason, as you mentioned John, she may have started making these steps while Bill Gates relationship with convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The "Journal" reporting that from a source -- reporting that was really a source of concern for her.

Now you may remember -- let's back up to October of 2019.