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Education Secretary: Waiting To Reopen Schools In Fall Is "Too Late"; Tiger Linked To Murder Suspect Still On Lam In Houston; Cruz Lashes Out At Democrats Over Guns, Immigration, And Voting Bill. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 12, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: At what point can you kind of go tough love on people who, yes, support your administration and say look, this is what has to happen?

MIGUEL CARDONA, SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION: You know, I -- as secretary of Education, I cannot mandate or, you know -- we're working with states. We're working -- I'm talking to governors, I'm talking to chiefs, I'm talking to superintendents, teachers, principals, and I haven't met an educator that doesn't want to go back to school safely.

So it's really about what are the issues that are preventing it from happening and making sure that our agency, the Education Department, is working with them, even if that means we're sending folks on the ground there to support them. To see how we can support those efforts to get those students back in school

At this point, this is about students. This is not about whatever challenges folks are having -- adults are having. This is about getting students into school.

And I can tell you unequivocally I've had conversations with the American Federation of Teachers and the NEA. They want students in school safely, too.

KEILAR: Yes. I mean, my sister is a public school teacher. She's been teaching full-time since August. I have felt much more comfortable since she was able to get vaccinated in March.

CARDONA: Yes.

KEILAR: But I'm also very comfortable because masks are being used. This is where -- you know, as someone with a stake in this I'm very comfortable.

You have some folks talking about getting rid of masks. In South Carolina, the governor issued an order and overturned mask requirements in schools.

Kids, of course, are not vaccinated. Right now, it's available for kids 12 and older but certainly not for younger than that. What is the administration doing to ensure the kids who do not have that protection are protected and that teachers who could suffer breakthrough infections are protected from unvaccinated kids?

CARDONA: Thank you, Brianna. I'm glad to hear your sister is in the classroom.

And my children are in the classroom. They've been in the classroom since August. And for me, as a parent, I want to make sure my children are safe. I'm not going to compromise their safety or the safety of the staff to get them in school. We have to do it safely. So the mitigation strategies that we've been hearing about from CDC since the beginning are critically important.

In Connecticut, when I was commissioner, it was a non-negotiable. You have to wear protective -- PPE to ensure that we can get into schools safely, and it's worked. It's worked across the country. Why are we going to consider taking back what we know works?

So we're almost there but we're not there yet. We're still in the middle of a pandemic. We have to follow CDC guidance of the mitigation strategies that have proven to work to get our kids and our staff back to school safely. To remove those now I think would be premature.

KEILAR: Really quickly before I let you go here, I just want to know your thought on what the pandemic -- the ramifications of it are. Are we looking at a massive nationwide remediation that we're going to be feeling for years with our kids?

CARDONA: We have to look at education differently. This is obviously a major disruption in what we've been doing.

But honestly, Brianna, it's an opportunity to reinvent it and to make it better because we know prior to the pandemic there were issues in education. There were issues to access. And this is our opportunity as educators to really lift up the profession and make sure that we're providing a better service.

So, yes, there's going to remediation, but there's going to be acceleration and there's going to be opportunities for students to grow to new, higher levels, and I look forward to leading that effort.

KEILAR: All right. It is so important.

Education Sec. Miguel Cardona, thank you so much.

CARDONA: Thank you.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: A really interesting discussion. And obviously, schools are something we all care so much about.

Let's bring in Dr. Sanjay Gupta. So, Sanjay, what about it? I mean, basically, the education secretary is more or less saying let's just -- let's just do this. We know enough to do this. Schools should be -- there's got to be a way to get schools open even now, this close to summer. DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well look, you know, I -- we've been reporting on this for a long time and I think that's -- you know, we talk a lot about the vaccines and all the promise that holds -- and they do. But the fact of the matter is we could have probably opened schools, in some ways, based on the knowledge that we had much, much earlier. I mean, some schools obviously have opened.

But I think there was all these studies. In the beginning, they didn't know. Were kids going to be the big transmitters of the virus? I was worried about that. Kids get a cold and everybody in the house gets a cold. Was that going to happen with schools?

How really at risk were kids? We didn't think they were at risk and that data has held up. They -- you know, it's possible kids can get sick but at a much lower percentage, obviously, than adults.

Remember this Wisconsin study. I don't know if we have that graphic but we can put this up. This was a study that the CDC oftentimes referred to. It was reflecting the fall of 2020 and what they found was really interesting.

In the school district -- they looked at 17 different schools and they found that the spread of the virus was lower -- much lower -- 37 percent lower within the schools than in the surrounding communities. There was 191 cases that were found throughout that entire time -- some -- close to 3,500 people, I think -- students and staff -- but only seven of those cases actually came from within the school.

[07:35:13]

So the point is that for some time we've known with the mitigation measures -- masking and things like that -- trying to improve ventilation -- you can open schools safely and safer than the surrounding community.

KEILAR: Sanjay, it's so important that we have faith in our public health institutions. And that brings us to a moment that we saw yesterday in a Senate committee hearing where Sen. Susan Collins of Maine said this about the CDC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): I used to have the utmost respect for the guidance from the CDC. I always considered the CDC to be the gold standard. I don't anymore.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I mean, Sanjay, there are many people who agree with her. What do you think?

GUPTA: Yes, it pains me to say this but I see where she's coming from -- Senator Collins -- on this.

I mean, I think for a long time the concern was the CDC was providing guidance at the beginning of the pandemic that was not scientifically- based. And as a result, we didn't do things that we should have done in this country that could have greatly mitigated what has happened here.

And now I think it's almost a little bit of the reverse problem. The science is not necessarily being followed to the same extent and as a result, we're probably doing things that we don't need to be doing.

So in the end, the CDC needs to be just a science-based organization.

What does the science say? You don't need to wear a mask outside. It's just one of these things that, again, we've known this for some time. We didn't know in the beginning. We've all learned a lot over the past year but now we know it's not clear that there's really been any cases of outdoor transmission -- maybe a couple of cases throughout the last year in the entire world that have really been documented.

So it just doesn't happen very commonly that this virus spreads outside. It doesn't like to be outside. It doesn't like U.V. light. There's all these different things. But again, now we know that.

Indoor masking -- we know that the country -- it's hard to paint the country with one brush. Let me show you. There's areas of the country that still have much higher viral transmission than other areas.

We know that more than half the country is still unvaccinated. So if you live in a place where there's still -- where it's red, which is about one-third of the country, then you should still be very mindful of the fact that less than half the population is vaccinated. There could be a lot of viral spread there and you probably have to have more caution.

Indoor masking -- if you're vaccinated, I don't think you need to wear a mask indoors either.

So this is what the science is sort of showing and I think the CDC just needs to probably say that. They erring on the side of caution. I get it. I think we've all been traumatized here. But I think at this point it has to be very clear what the science shows and what you can do as a result of that.

BERMAN: Excellent points, Sanjay. And everyone needs to check out Sanjay's new podcast "Chasing Life." It is fantastic.

Great to see you, Sanjay. Thank you very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

KEILAR: Coming up, some gas stations across the southeast are seeing gas shortages after that massive pipeline cyberattack.

BERMAN: Plus --

KEILAR: Say it.

BERMAN: -- a tiger on the lam. A tiger on the lam. No one knows where this tiger is -- this tiger that was roaming around the suburbs in Houston. Where is it? Doesn't that concern you a little bit?

KEILAR: I'm concerned.

BERMAN: We're going to be joined shortly by big cat expert Carole Baskin, shortly.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:42:56]

BERMAN: All right.

This morning, there's a tiger on the lam. There is a tiger -- no one knows where this tiger is, OK? This is video of a 9-month-old tiger that was spotted roaming in a Houston neighborhood.

Police say they arrested the man who was housing the tiger. He was arrested on other charges. But this morning, the tiger known as India -- no one knows. Where's the tiger?

Jose Antonio Ramos, the man who shot that video, joins us now. Jose, look, tell us exactly what you saw and what you were thinking when you were maybe having your coffee, having breakfast, looked outside and there's a tiger roaming on the street.

JOSE ANTONIA RAMOS, LIVES ACROSS STREET FROM HOME WITH ESCAPED TIGER: Yes, I was walking and saw outside the window -- my window that there was a tiger in my -- in my front lawn. And the first thing that came to my mind was that they probably were shooting some commercial or something where there was a wild animal, obviously with cameras and plenty of security and safety around it.

And so I came out just to really make sure that what I was seeing was accurate and to basically take a snapshot of it and alert the authorities.

KEILAR: What do you know about Victor Cuevas, who is the person who actually -- as this off-duty officer is pointing a gun at the tiger, Victor Cuevas flees with the tiger, is later apprehended without the tiger? He is currently in jail being held on a $50,000 bond unrelated to a separate murder charge from 2017. What do you know about him?

RAMOS: I think pretty much what everybody knows, that he was a very secluded, private individual. He didn't make any contact with the neighbors. He was my next-door neighbor so I've only seen him once in person and this is because of a bursted pipe that he had in his sprinkler system. But outside of that, absolutely nothing.

[07:45:02]

BERMAN: Yes. Jose, can I just say you seem so calm and cool and collected when --

KEILAR: Right.

BERMAN: -- describing seeing the tiger when you went outside. I think there are a lot of people, if they saw a tiger roaming around their neighborhood might be a little nervous. I mean, any jitters as you were looking at this?

RAMOS: Oh, absolutely. I was shaking. I was lucky that I had a good phone to take some good video and capture video and get pictures, and I zoomed in. I mean, I couldn't -- you know, I was having the door half-open because I was ready to run back to the -- to the house and shut the door.

KEILAR: Cool as a cucumber, you are, Jose. I don't think I would -- I would be jittering too much to even take a video, I think.

Jose Antonio Ramos, thank you for being with us.

RAMOS: Thank you. Have a good day.

BERMAN: All right, we want to bring in an expert on tigers and other big cats. She is the founder and CEO of Big Cat Rescue and became well-known across the country after the release of the Netflix series "TIGER KING." Carole Baskin, nice to see you this morning.

Just -- look, tell me your thoughts when you see a tiger roaming around a neighborhood like that.

CAROLE BASKIN, FOUNDER AND CEO, BIG CAT RESCUE, FEATURED IN NETFLIX "TIGER KING": You know, this has become kind of commonplace in Texas.

And so I really hope that Sens. Cruz and Cornyn will sign on to the Big Cat Public Safety Act. Because if they had last year when the House passed this bill -- the Senate didn't bring it up for a vote. If it had passed last year, this wouldn't have happened this time. And the reason for that is this cat is nine months old, which means it probably aged out of being used as a pay-to-play prop in December of last year when this passed the House with a two-thirds vote.

KEILAR: Are you worried? Are you worried, Carole, about how this ends?

BASKIN: I am extremely worried about what happens with this tiger and the people around it. Because the people who were involved in buying, and selling, and owning, and transporting this tiger have proven that they are absolutely reckless individuals with no concern for the people around them or for the animal involved. No tiger belongs in a backyard or basement.

BERMAN: Carole --

KEILAR: But what -- I'm sorry, John.

BERMAN: I'm sorry, go ahead.

KEILAR: I was just going to say what happens? If you're the tiger, what is -- how does a tiger respond in a situation like this if it encounters a person? What should a person do? I mean, what do you -- what are you specifically worried about? How should people conduct themselves if they see this tiger? BASKIN: I was so impressed with the deputy that showed up on the scene because he did exactly the right thing and he showed amazing restraint in not shooting that tiger -- not emptying his gun into that tiger. He kept eye contact. He backed away slowly.

A tiger -- if you look down -- if you turn -- if that neighbor had run back to his door that just triggers their instinct to kill.

BERMAN: I was going to ask you -- I mean, how much danger were the people in that neighborhood in with that tiger walking around?

BASKIN: They were in extreme danger because the video showed that nobody even knew the tiger had escaped for quite a while. That cat was laying around in the front yard looking for what it could get into.

And I had heard that there was a children's birthday party in the neighborhood -- children running and screaming and having fun. That would have triggered every instinct in that cat to kill.

KEILAR: So this was a tiger in a house. As you mentioned, you are obviously very much opposed to that.

We should point out, as you said, it's commonplace in Texas. It is legal in Texas. It is not legal in Houston, though, right?

BASKIN: It's my understanding that there is an ordinance against it but it treats it like a misdemeanor.

And there's a new film out called "THE CONSERVATION GAME" that has been following this battle to pass the Big Cat Public Safety Act, which does two things. It bans the cub petting, which causes all of these cats to be bred, used, and then discarded into pet homes. And it phases out private ownership so that people can keep their pets but they can't buy or breed more big cats as pets.

BERMAN: Again, Carole, I think to some people this seems obvious but if you can explain, why shouldn't you have a grown tiger in your house? I mean, what are you risking to you and the tiger by trying to keep a tiger as a pet?

BASKIN: Tigers are hardwired to roam hundreds of square miles so there's no cage that's going to be sufficient for them. And the only reason that people have tigers as pets is to try and show off to others that they are more powerful than the most powerful creature on the planet. That already tells you that the kind of people who own tigers are really dangerous, reckless people.

BERMAN: Can I just ask one last question about this tiger, India -- I think we think the name is? You know, if it's being hidden somewhere or going through what could be a stressful moment, what's it like for that tiger right now?

[07:50:00]

BASKIN: You know, when I watched that film and I saw the tiger just luxuriating by laying on the grass, that tells me that cat never gets to do that. That cat's probably kept in some concrete barren cage or in some room at the house that's been just completely stripped of everything so that cat has no natural experience whatsoever.

And no matter where that cat goes, even if the authorities find the cat and manage to get it to an accredited sanctuary, that cat's going to be living for the next 20 years in a cage because somebody bred it to be used as a pay-to-play prop.

BERMAN: Carole Baskin, we do appreciate you joining us this morning and helping us understand what we're seeing, beyond just that stunning picture of a -- of a tiger roaming around a neighborhood. Thank you.

BASKIN: Thank you.

BERMAN: We're just about an hour away now from a vote that will decide not just Liz Cheney's role in House Republican leadership but really, honestly, the fate of the Republican Party itself, in a way. You know, Tom Friedman says the fate of American democracy as a whole.

KEILAR: And, Ted Cruz's tantrum. Why he accused Democrats of wanting to take away folks' guns and then stormed out of Senate hearing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:55:20]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Feinstein.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D-CA): Senator Cruz, Mr. Chairman, asserts that ghost guns are not a problem. I'd like to disagree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: So that was Sen. Dianne Feinstein trying to respond to Sen. Ted Cruz at a hearing yesterday about ghost guns. Instead, Cruz slammed some of the administration's nominees and claimed that Democrats want to seize guns. And then, as you saw there in that video, he walked out to go to another hearing.

Joining me now is CNN reporter Daniel Dale. And before, Daniel, we should say before Cruz walked out he made this claim -- so let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Democrats on this committee want to trace every firearm in America. They want a registry of every firearm in America. They want a government list of what guns they are -- there are, who owns them, how many they own them.

And inevitably, when you see countries enact registries of firearms the next step is confiscation. And numerous Democrats on this committee have advocated for confiscating firearms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right, fact-check that for us. It's hard to imagine that happening. Just let us know if this is true.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: So, there is at least one Democrat on this committee who has supported a federal firearms registry. Now, on gun confiscation, Sen. Cruz wasn't making this up out of thin air but he could have been a whole clearer and a whole lot more precise.

I asked his office what is Sen. Cruz talking about here and they said he was talking about Democrats' support for so-called red flag laws. What those laws do is allow people, including police or family members, to petition a judge to temporarily confiscate guns from people deemed to be a threat to themselves or others.

So, yes, that is confiscation -- temporary confiscation, but it's a whole lot scary to a lot of gun owners. In fact, it has broad support among gun owners and broad --

KEILAR: That's right.

DALE: -- support among Republicans. So if Sen. Cruz had said that rather than vaguely suggesting that Democrats are generally coming for your guns, it would have been a whole lot clearer.

KEILAR: It didn't sound like he was talking about a red flag law at all, which does have broad support.

DALE: Correct, yes.

BERMAN: All right. So, Cruz spoke at another committee hearing concerning HR1. That's the Voting Rights Bill. Here's what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CRUZ: I believe it is the intent of this bill to register to vote millions of illegal aliens. This bill, right now, automatically registers to vote anyone who interacts with the government. So if you get a welfare check, if you get an unemployment check, if you get a driver's license, you attend a public college or university you're automatically registered to vote. Millions of illegal immigrants fall into those categories.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Daniel Dale, survey says?

DALE: This is completely false.

The Democrats have proposed so-called automatic voter registration but automatic, John, doesn't mean everyone. In fact, their proposal, if you read the bill, says over and over in rapid succession that only citizens would be eligible for registration. And they say that any government agency that is part of this so-called automatic process has to forward the elections agency information showing that these people are citizens before they're registered.

I reached out to states that already have automatic voter registration, including Georgia and Oregon, and they said that, indeed, that's how it works. That if people are not citizens their information is not forwarded.

Now, Sen. Cruz and others have pointed to errors in some states that have so-called AVR in which undocumented people have been registered, but such errors also happen under non-AVR systems. And again, Sen. Cruz wasn't saying there might be some errors. He was saying the intent of the bill, the design of the bill is to register millions of undocumented people and that is patently not true.

KEILAR: Finally, there's a group of Republican lawmakers in Michigan who have proposed a bill to regulate and fine fact-checkers, like you, right -- journalists. What's this about and obviously, this is a First Amendment issue?

DALE: It is. I mean, not to get into the heads of the people who propose this but I think this is about one, scoring points with the conservative base by going after the media, and it's about a growing disrespect for the principle of a free press for the First Amendment among certain segments of the Republican Party. Not just the base, but elected officials. We saw this from President Trump and now we're seeing it at the state level as well.

BERMAN: You can't have facts running rampant. I mean, imagine a world where there are just too many facts around there -- when facts are just allowed to run around.

DALE: I'd be scared, John.

KEILAR: That is your dream, Daniel Dale -- your dream.

Daniel, thank you so much.

NEW DAY continues right now.

I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman on this new day.

The GOP's moment of reckoning is now just minutes away and Republicans will vote to dump Liz Cheney, who is shaming them on her way out the door.

Also, a pivotal morning.