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Answering Questions about CDC's New Mask Guidance; Gaetz Wingman to Plead Guilty, Cooperate with Feds; Would Any Workplace Tolerate Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene's Behavior?; Israeli Defense Forces and Gaza Continue Airstrikes. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 17, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: But it's not just an academic idea, right? You kind of see it in practice here.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. And look, there is so much talk about people in the military, what they say after they're retired. This isn't even that. This is active duty stuff going on, which makes it so surprising that, as you said earlier to me, that he felt comfortable enough to say this out loud.

KEILAR: It's very concerning.

NEW DAY continues right now.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman alongside Brianna Keilar. On this NEW DAY, Israel launches new strikes overnight after the deadliest day so far in the weeklong fight with Palestinian militants.

Plus, the maze of different mask mandates all over the country. The CDC's new guidance creates some confusion and causes concern.

KEILAR: And a key figure in the Matt Gaetz scandal is about to plead guilty in court. Could it be a turning point in the sex trafficking investigation into the congressman?

And what's next for the Bengal tiger found safe and sound after days on the lam down in Texas. The big cat himself will join us live, along with "Tiger King's" Carole Baskin.

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Monday, May 17th. Overnight, new strikes by Israeli Defense Forces in Gaza. The airstrikes targeting the home of Hamas commanders there. Israel says it also destroyed nine miles of the militant group's network of tunnels. It comes after the deadliest day yet in the weeklong conflict. Palestinian health officials now say at least 200 people have been killed in Gaza.

KEILAR: Hamas rockets launching across the border into Israel, one slamming into a synagogue in the city of Ashkelon. Ten people killed in Israel despite growing international pressure for a ceasefire. This intense fighting between Israelis and Palestinians continues, and there is no apparent end in sight. CNN'S Hadas Gold is live for us in Ashdod, Israel. This is extremely

concerning, and there does not appear to be any sort of bend to this trajectory, Hadas.

HADAS GOLD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No, Brianna. And as we speak, I am hearing explosions. We actually just a few seconds ago right before we went live on air, we saw an interception, iron dome interception just to my right in the sky, quite a loud boom. We've been hearing jets flying overhead. We've been hearing explosions. And since the last time I spoke to you about two hours ago we had a red alert siren here in Ashdod, sent us running into the bomb shelter.

We do understand from the Israeli military, during that volley of rockets that we just received that included Ashdod as well as a town further into Israel called Be'er Sheva that there was a direct hit on a building here. There are some injuries being reported. But this is part of the intense amount of activity we are seeing today. Absolutely no indication that things are calming down. The Israeli military have been very active today and overnight. Just in the last few hours, they say that they just killed -- that they just killed a senior Palestinian Islamic Jihad commander from the northern brigade. They say they also targeted what they said was some sort of submarine vessel. They have also been targeting what they are calling the Hamas Metro. This is a series of tunnels underneath the Gaza Strip which they say contains a lot of military intel as well as assets. They say that's where the Hamas commanders hide their weapons and also hide themselves at the same time.

But the death and destruction is rising. Now, according to the Palestinian Ministry of Health in Gaza, which the Israeli military disputes these numbers because they say they are run by Hamas, they say that there are 197 dead, including 58 children. The Israeli military say that they have killed 130 combatants. We don't know exactly how those numbers add up with what we're getting from the ministry of health there. In Israel, 10 Israelis have been killed, including a child and a soldier, but the activity continues here. As I said, jets flying overhead. We're continuing to hear explosions.

The Israeli military is continuing their operations. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu saying yesterday in an address to the country that the operation will continue until they feel they have reached their military objectives. We do not seem to be having any signs of cessation of the fire. The activity ongoing here. The Israeli military saying they still have targets to reach. And as this all happens, of course, civilians on both sides caught in the crossfire.

KEILAR: Indeed, they are. Hadas, thank you so much.

Let's break this down now how the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians is playing out on the ground, in the air as well. We have CNN military analysts and retired U.S. Army Major General "Spider" Marks with us. General, fist just talk to us kind of broadly about the military strategy that Israel is employing here.

[08:05:00] MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: What you see, Brianna, this gives you a very good overview in terms of what we're facing in the region. Israel is trying to subjugate and continue to hold down what is taking place militarily in Gaza where the Palestinians have been. Clearly there is some challenges to do that. There are approximately 2 million folks that are in this very small piece of terrain. But what is happening is the Palestinians are launching approximately 1,000 missiles, rockets a day -- rockets are less guided than missiles are -- into Israel. But Israel has an incredibly effective iron dome system, which is an air defense system that works extremely well and gets better through artificial intelligence as they work their algorithms to strike more effectively against the rockets that are coming in.

So what is Israel is trying to do is they don't want to try to put forces on the ground into Gaza. That would be crossing over in a way that would be very, very ineffective for them. It would be very messy, there would be a lot of killing if they go into Gaza to physically go after these tunnels. But what they are trying to do is do very precise strikes against command facilities, offices of Hamas, going after the tunnels, trying to bury into those tunnels with deep penetration rounds.

And there are probably over 30 plus tunnels that exist within Gaza that Hamas and the Palestinians use as a matter of routine for inventory, for munitions, for their ammunition, for their capability to command and control. So clearly what the IDF, the Israeli Defense Force, wants to do is negate the Palestinian ability to continue to launch these rockets. The key question is we don't know how this is going to end. We talk about once Israel meets their military objectives. I'm not certain we know what those look like.

KEILAR: It's a very good point. And the Israeli military, as you mentioned, they're trying for these precision strikes. They've released several before and after images of these, including this one here where the targets are allegedly those Hamas-built tunnel openings that you're talking about. The thing is, though, this is clearly near heavily populated civilian areas in Gaza. And Israel is saying it's trying to avoid civilian casualties. But is that even possible?

MARKS: I don't think it is possible. Look, there is a very precise process that all militaries go -- you would hope all militaries would go through, which is the notion of collateral damage estimates and assessments so that you strike very precisely at an appropriate time against an appropriate target with the right munition. But it's very difficult when you look at Gaza. As I said, Gaza is a very restricted area. Over 2 million people are located there. So it's incredibly difficult to go after a very precise target without achieving damage that's going to be affecting the population.

KEILAR: Yes, it's incredible. You see how close it is to a school on that map as well, and this is the reality of what we're seeing happening there. General, thank you so much for being with us.

MARKS: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: John?

BERMAN: The CDC's new guidance on masks sounds simple on the surface. Get a vaccine and you can probably get rid of your mask. But in practice it is more complicated, depending where you live and work. CNN's chief business correspondent Christine Romans joins us now. And businesses are trying to figure out how to deal with this.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: They are. Look, it's a victory. Vaccinated Americans can leave the masks behind. But there are a lot of caveats here. It's not as simple as mask on, mask off. The CDC now says vaccinated Americans don't need to wear one, but keep it in your purse or pocket. Customers and retailers are finding there are a lot of exceptions. Some stores moving quickly to welcome vaccinated shoppers without a mask, but some states still have mandates. That makes it confusing.

Starbucks, Publix, Costco, Trader Joe's, and Walmart, they all say fully vaccinated customers don't need to wear the mask in stores unless, unless you live in a state or locality that has a mandate. Starbucks' new policy starts today. Walmart sent a letter to its employees encouraging them to get vaccinated, and the fully vaccinated workers, they will be able to work without a mask starting May 18th.

Even though Costco won't require fully vaccinated shoppers to wear masks, customers still have to wear one in the optical, hearing aid, and pharmacy departments. Over the weekend Universal Orlando, Disney World, SeaWorld, and Busch Gardens all said guests do not have to wear masks outdoors. Guests at Disney World will still have to wear one when they enter park on all of the rides, and when they're eating indoors, at indoor restaurants, and at all of the transportation service. So you can walk down Main Street without a mask, but you need to put it back on to ride Space Mountain.

Stores that are allowing vaccinated shoppers in without masks, they aren't asking for proof of vaccination. Some retailers, including Apple, CVS, and Target still evaluating this guidance. Guidance is very clear about wearing a mask on public transportation, airplanes, and subways. You have to wear them even if you are vaccinated.

[08:10:09]

And John, a new wrinkle, there are some companies that are starting to consider whether they should move up their return-to-work deadlines because of the rate of vaccination and because they don't need to have masks inside for vaccinated workers. So that's a key new development to watch.

BERMAN: It really is. I understand people want consistency, but if the sign on the door says you need a mask inside, you can put on a mask. It doesn't seem all that hard in many circumstances to me.

ROMANS: It doesn't. And Costco is telling its customers, look, we're basically using the honor system here. We're expecting that if you're not wearing a mask in a store, it's because you are vaccinated. We're asking that people follow the rules out of their own good conscience.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, great to see you. Thanks so much.

The largest nurses' union in the U.S. is criticizing the new CDC guidance on masking, saying that it is not based on science and it is putting lives at risk. Joining us now is the president of the National Nurses United, Jean Ross. Thank you so much for being with us. Look, the CDC actually said this decision is based on science. It's based on studies that show if you are vaccinated, you are very unlikely to get sick, and that even if you get some kind of a breakthrough infection, the studies seem to be showing you are not likely in any way to pass the virus on to others. Why isn't that good enough?

JEAN ROSS, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL NURSES UNITED: Because it's not. It's a couple of small studies that they looked at. It's also the fact that, as in the lead-up you mentioned, it's very confusing for people. We have questions right now from our patients, from our families, from their families, from friends. And I can see why it's confusing. We have spent so long trying to redevelop the trust that people have with their government entities about what's right and what's not right. And we're not out of the woods in this yet. Less than 37 percent of us are fully vaccinated. We still have over 35,000 cases a day, over 600 deaths a day. And this is not the time to be keeping your nurses, your other frontline workers, your essential workers at risk. And we don't like making them -- they have been the mask police. Now they're having to be the vaccine police. They don't want that.

BERMAN: I understand that. Are you concerned about your vaccinated members, or are you concerned about your unvaccinated members?

ROSS: Well, we're mainly concerned about people who have yet to get the vaccine. Again, we've been making strides in convincing people to get it. You still have that discrepancy between people of color being vaccinated versus the others. And so at points like this, this is not the time, especially with the variants running around, to be lax in your mitigating factors. So what we're saying is when we -- go ahead.

BERMAN: I'm sorry, are you asking all of your members -- do you believe that all the nurses should be vaccinated?

ROSS: We encourage all nurses to be vaccinated, yes. But what we're saying is when we do our job, a huge part of our job is to educate. And when we educate patients and their families, and we can tell what we've instructed them to do is confusing, or they're going to have difficulty doing it, we go back. We revoke it. We say, OK, let's revise here. And that's really what we would like the CDC to do, is to revoke and revise this new guideline and say masks are still an important mitigating factor, especially since it's airborne. That's what we would like --

BERMAN: Masks are still required in hospitals and in nursing homes. I understand that nurses work in other places beyond just that, but I imagine those are two locations that cover many, many of your members, still required there.

ROSS: Yes. Bear in mind, though, nurses aren't just concerned about nurses. Nurses are concerned about the public's health. That's what we're looking at, the public's health. And so while you can't tell from looking at a person whether they're vaccinated or not, and, sad to say, we have had people not being truthful about why they can't wear a mask, why are we expecting that if they're unmasked they will be vaccinated? It's just a confusing measure, and it's something that is, I think, a little too early to do. So we're asking people to go to NNU.org/masks, plural, to help us ask the CDC to please revoke and revise.

BERMAN: Jean Ross, it really is an interesting subject. It requires a lot of trust and a lot of faith and a whole lot of people. Thank you for joining us this morning, appreciate it.

ROSS: You're welcome.

BERMAN: We just talked about the confusion among some people in terms of mask wearing. Next, a doctor helps us answer your questions.

KEILAR: Plus, Marjorie Taylor Greene goading and taunting colleagues in Congress. Would any workplaces tolerate this behavior? We'll ask an HR rep.

[08:15:00]

And a happy end to the search for a lost tiger that captivated the nation. A live look at how this big cat is doing right now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: The CDC's announcement that fully vaccinated people no longer need to wear masks even indoors has left many people with many questions, and here to answer some of these questions on all of our minds is Dr. Ashish Jha, who is the Dean of Brown University School of Public Health.

Dr. Jha, good morning to you. First question here: even if you're vaccinated, are there places where you should still be wearing a mask? Gyms, sports arenas, airplanes grocery stores in a taxi for instance?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes, so good morning, and thanks for having me on.

So some of them are still required and, for instance, airplanes, mass transits.

You know, the way I think about it is, in any super crowded place, it's reasonable to continue wearing a mask for a little bit longer. I guess, if your gym is super crowded, that might be one idea, but I think, you know, certainly indoor packed concerts, those kinds of things I'd wear a mask, but other than that, I think fully vaccinated people can lose the mask.

BERMAN: So a lot of questions have to deal with parents worried about what to do with their unvaccinated children. So, is it safe to go in a store or an establishment that does not require a mask with an unvaccinated child?

[08:20:07] JHA: Yes, it's a really good question. You know, right now I have

been pretty clear that -- well, I think the CDC got the science right on vaccinated people, lifting, you know, not having to wear a mask, I do think indoor mask mandates should remain for a little bit longer.

In terms of walking in with kids, I have an unvaccinated child. If I went into a grocery store with him, I would ask him to wear a mask and I personally would wear one, too. I think it's safe as long as they're masked up well.

KEILAR: So you said and alluded to this, some people, of course, nervous going into crowded places now, especially if people are unmasked. What is your advice to them?

JHA: Yes, so look, in the ideal world, what we would be doing is implementing CDC's guidance as they laid out, which is vaccinated people can lose the mask, unvaccinated people have to wear the mask. That's really, really hard to do.

And so what we're going to see is unvaccinated people unmasked in indoor spaces, and that's pretty risky. And what I'm saying is as long as infection numbers are high in the community, as long as there's a lot of people getting vaccinated or not fully vaccinated yet, I think people should continue wearing masks indoors for probably another few weeks.

I've said June 15th as a deadline of I think when nationally, we can lift into our mask mandates, but I wouldn't do it yet.

BERMAN: Talk more about unvaccinated people and the risks they face now particularly because, you know, I have to believe a lot of the people who are unvaccinated may very well be the types of people who don't want to wear masks to begin with.

JHA: Yes, you know, pretty dangerous moment right now to be unvaccinated because if you think about it, you know, infection numbers are coming down and that's great. But they're happening in a smaller and smaller pool of people, the unvaccinated, and the variants are really quite contagious.

And so if you are unvaccinated right now, you have a pretty high risk of getting infected and getting sick. And as more of these mandates lift, the things that we're doing to protect unvaccinated people also diminish.

So more and more reasons why everybody should go out and get the shot.

BERMAN: Dr. Ashish Jha, always a pleasure to speak with you. Thanks for laying it out so clearly for us this morning.

JHA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Just ahead, the former associate of Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz set to appear in court this morning with a plea. Is he getting ready to flip on the congressman? KEILAR: And would any workplace tolerate Congresswoman Marjorie

Taylor Greene's behavior? An H.R. expert tells us what would happen in the real world outside of the Halls of Congress.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:31]

BERMAN: This morning, a former ally to Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz is set to plead guilty to a slew of Federal climate crimes including sex trafficking of a child. Joel Greenberg has agreed to cooperate with prosecutors in ongoing investigations that could very well ensnare Gaetz.

CNN's Paula Reid live in Orlando with the very latest. This is a big day, Paula.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: It is a big day. This is the first time we've seen Joel Greenberg since it was revealed that he is indeed formally cooperating with the Justice Department.

A little bit later this morning, he will appear here inside Federal Court and he will plead guilty to six Federal charges.

Now that is down from the original 33 Federal charges that he was facing, which led a lot of people to wonder what is it that he gave investigators to encourage them to give him that kind of pretty sweet deal?

Well, we learned a little bit more on Friday. And while of course, everyone is asking about his associate, Congressman Matt Gaetz, and what all this means for him, the Congressman wasn't mentioned at all in the formal plea agreement and in the details that we got on Friday.

But the key paragraph, the really key thing that we're looking for even today is the fact that we know Greenberg will admit to the court that not only did he have sex with a minor at least seven times, but that he also introduced that minor to other men who paid her for sex and that's the big question going forward: who were these men? Will they be named publicly? And will they eventually be charged?

Now, Congressman Gaetz has denied any wrongdoing. He and his spokesman have attacked Joel Greenberg's credibility, which is fair. As a witness, he would have a lot of credibility problems. But we know investigators looking into the Congressman, they have other witnesses, and they have hundreds and hundreds of documents and records of transactions that they're all looking at as they decide whether they have enough information to charge the Congressman.

BERMAN: Yet repeated references to others and other men in this cooperation agreement really jump off the page, you don't get from 33 counts to six for nothing.

So Paula Reid, we're lucky to have you there. Keep us posted throughout the morning. KEILAR: "Deeply unwell and needs help," those words from

Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez after a 2019 video emerged of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene taunting her.

Greene repeatedly seeks out confrontation with AOC without any fear of losing her job and it is fair to say that immunity may fly in Congress, but it doesn't fly in the real world.

Joining us now is H.R. consultant, Laurie Ruettimann, and she is the author of "Betting on You: How to Put Yourself First and Finally Take Control of Your Career."

Okay, so look, you're the one who gives out advice here. Members of Congress might need some here. Would she -- meaning Marjorie Taylor Greene get away with this in any workplace in America?

LAURIE RUETTIMANN, HUMAN RESOURCE CONSULTANT: Well, you know, I would like to say that it would be totally irresponsible for any company to keep her employed, and that H.R. would be on top of us.

But unfortunately, we've had a year, almost a full year of uprising in America and a realization that some employees are treated differently than others.

So I would like to think that your local H.R. lady would be all over this, but I'd say 50/50.

BERMAN: But the red flags would be what? I mean, bullying and harassment. My understanding is they are really big no no's in any corporate structure.

RUETTIMANN: Well, for sure, they are big no no's. They've been big no no's since the dawn of time, right? We're all adults.

I think it all depends on how leadership values talent.

So if you're someone who shows up and produces and does a good job and I am using air quotes, you can get away with a lot and so I guess, the question is, is Kevin McCarthy going to act like a local H.R. leader and let some of this stuff go or is he going to step up like a CEO in 2021 and really tackle this head on? I think it remains to be seen.

[08:30:29]