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New Day

Franklin Graham is Interviewed about the Vaccine; Steve Dickson is Interviewed about FAA Fines; GOP Split on January 6th Commission; Demings to Run against Rubio; Uproar over Cuomo's Book; McCarthy Doesn't Support January 6th Commission; Michael Lewis is Interviewed about the Pandemic. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 18, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

REV. FRANKLIN GRAHAM, PRESIDENT AND CEO, SAMARITAN'S PURSE AND BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION: Direct. I'm just saying, Brianna, it is what it is. You've got 73 million people who feel that there was something --

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: So you're saying that Joe Biden didn't win the election but that you're moving on? I just want to be very clear about what you're saying.

GRAHAM: No. No, I'll just be very clear. I've said I'm moving on. He's the president and he needs our support. He needs our prayers. And we've got a virus in front of us that needs to be focused on. And so the election, you know, we've got another election coming up in two years, the midterms, and in four years from now another presidential election. And we can work toward that. But let's -- let's get past 2020 and move on.

KEILAR: All right, sir. I will just say, many people have not moved on. They believe, as you put it, have concerns about the election. Many of them believe that it was inaccurate. And there are people in positions of power, including yourself, who gave them reason to believe that. But, look, sir, we certainly appreciate having you on. All of these are important issues to cover. We really appreciate the efforts that you are making on coronavirus vaccines.

Reverend Franklin Graham, thank you for being with us.

GRAHAM: God bless.

Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Thank you. You, too, sir.

Coming up, how the FAA's zero tolerance crackdown could cost some people big money if they don't keep their cool.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, the big-name Democrat now targeting Marco Rubio's Florida Senate seat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:35:21]

BERMAN: One airline passenger accused of physically assaulting a flight attendant and trying to break into the plane's cockpit while on a flight from Honolulu to Seattle last December is finding out just how much their bad behavior might cost them. The Federal Aviation Administration announcing it is seeking a whopping $52,500 fine against the passenger. The largest penalty levied by the federal agency this year. It's all part of a zero tolerance policy the FAA announced in January to help curb the rise in the number of incidents involving unruly passengers.

Joining us now to discuss, FAA Administrator Steve Dickson.

Administrator, thanks so much for being with us.

You've now levied 17 passengers with more than $330,000 worth of fines. Why?

STEVE DICKSON, ADMINISTRATOR, FAA: Well, thank you for the opportunity to be with you this morning, John. Appreciate the opportunity to be here.

You know, the FAA has zero tolerance for unruly behavior aboard commercial aircraft. We have the safest aviation system in the world and we need to keep it that way. So these actions are designed to make sure that we get this situation under control.

And as you said yesterday, we announced the largest fine that we have ever imposed on an individual for -- and it's on an aircraft, but a single incident can result in a fine and potential jail time, a fine of up to $35,000 for individual events.

BERMAN: Are you seeing a rise? I refer to this bluntly about -- you know, I call them jerks on planes. And I don't think there's any reason to call them anything other than that.

Are you seeing a rise in the number of jerks on planes?

DICKSON: We have seen a rise in unruly passenger incidents over the last few months. And it's something that we're always tracking and always monitoring along with the air carriers and airline employees. Typically -- in a typical year, we may have 100 to 150 enforcement actions that we take, but we have seen a significant increase over the last few months.

BERMAN: And that's even with fewer people flying. I know the numbers of people flying are going up but still not at pre-pandemic levels now.

How much of this do you think is connected to some of the mask requirements that are now part of flying?

DICKSON: Well, again, the mask is a TSA security directive and a CDC requirement. And there is a mask component to a number of these events, but we also have events that are related to consumption of alcohol and even threatening or assaulting flight attendants. And the crew members are there for passenger safety. So it's really important that passengers follow crew members' directions and not distract them from their safety duties. And that is something that we're really concerned about. That's why we adopted the zero tolerance policy.

BERMAN: And extended it. How much longer do you think you're going to have to keep it in place?

DICKSON: Well, we -- we're watching the rates very closely. You know, traffic is ramping up here in the summer. It's still about 20 percent below pre-pandemic levels. But as traffic levels increase, we continue to monitor the situation.

We have extended the program currently to September 13th, which is when the TSA security directive currently is planned to expire for all forms of public transportation. And then we'll look at where the data is after that to see if we keep the program in place beyond that point.

BERMAN: Don't be a jerk. Don't get fined. My words, not yours.

But, Steve Dickson, FAA administrator, appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you.

DICKSON: Thank you.

BERMAN: Just ahead, the big split between Senate Republicans and how it could sink plans for a 9/11-style commission to investigate the Capitol attack.

KEILAR: And new revelations about the pandemic from the scientists who predicted it and tried to put a stop to it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:43:17]

KEILAR: Senate Republicans are split this morning on a bill that would set up a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6th attack on the Capitol. Some Republicans insist the panel should also investigate left wing extremism.

Joining us now is CNN's chief political analyst Gloria Borger.

I mean this is -- it's hard to imagine, Gloria, and it's great to see you --

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: Good to see you in person.

KEILAR: Why there would be a commission investigating left wing extremism when that is not the prevailing threat, according to U.S. government officials, and that is not behind what happened on January 6th.

BORGER: Well, I think the issue here is that Republicans in the House and the Senate know that this is not a commission that Donald Trump will like. And they're sort of flummoxed about how they're going to deal with it. And so the way to kind of say, well, this really isn't about the insurrection on January 6th, they want to broaden it to make it about all so-called domestic terrorism so that they can say to the former president, you know what, we're not just investigating what happened on that day.

KEILAR: But that dilutes it, right?

BORGER: It totally -- it totally dilutes it. And this is why you have leaders like Kevin McCarthy and Steve Scalise in the House refusing, at least at this point, to take a position on this because they are afraid. Everybody understands, I think, that this needs to be investigated for history, at the very least, and also so we can understand exactly what occurred, how deep the planning was, who was doing it, are we in danger, and, instead, I think a lot of Republicans are thinking politically, any time you talk about it, they're moving backwards instead of moving forwards beyond January 6th.

BERMAN: Let's be clear, this -- this will pass the House and there's enough votes to get through the House.

[08:45:03]

BORGER: Sure.

BERMAN: The question is whether or not it will get ten votes in the Senate.

While we're on the subject of the Senate, earlier riser Gloria Borger --

BORGER: Thank you.

BERMAN: Marco Rubio, incumbent senator in Florida, is about to get a high-profile, high-level Democratic recruit running against him.

BORGER: Yes.

BERMAN: We're learning that Val Demings, Congresswoman Val Demings, is going to enter the campaign for the Democratic nomination to run against Marco Rubio.

BORGER: Yes.

BERMAN: It will be hard for her, even though she is a high-profile recruit for the Democrats. Florida's tough. Florida's been very tough for Democrats the last several cycles.

BORGER: Florida has been tough. Marco Rubio, last time around, won with 52 percent of the vote. A lot of the Hispanic vote supported him. So he's going to be a tough competitor.

But Val Demings is somebody whose star really rose during Donald Trump's first impeachment when she came on the scene and impressed people on the floor of the Senate when she argued that case. She's also, you know, a former law enforcement official. Was, you know, ran law enforcement in the city of Orlando. And you can't accuse her of being a so-called Democratic socialist. She's pretty moderate.

So I think, you know, the Democrats are feeling that she'd be a very attractive candidate and would make Marco Rubio fight to keep that seat.

KEILAR: She's definitely had some moments in congressional hearings, right?

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: We've seen that over and over. She's tough. So we'll see if she will take that to this fight.

I want to ask you, Gloria, about Andrew Cuomo, who is, of course, the embattled governor of New York.

We found out that he is going to get, in total, more than $5 million in compensation for his book about his leadership during the pandemic. And it's important to point out that amid these accusations of his staff sort of covering up, not just sort of, but actually covering up the real number of nursing home deaths, that all of this was done as he was writing this book and creating this image of himself as someone who was really a savior when it came to COVID response.

What do you think about this news, $5 million?

BORGER: That's a stunning amount of money for Andrew Cuomo. As you point out, the deal was negotiated kind of at the apex here of his career when people were tuning in to him every day to watch his COVID briefings. But as Howard Baker used to say, overnight is a lifetime in politics. And he's in a very different political situation right now with the allegations of sexual harassment, the nursing home numbers and questions about whether his staff really wrote this book rather than he writing the book. And so you put that all together, it's not doing well in sales. They're not doing a paperback version of it. So I think it becomes a political issue, a problem for him. Somebody who was going to profit off of this, even though he says he's going to give a lot of the money away. Somebody who is going to make an awful lot of money off of it who now is really fighting for his political life.

BERMAN: You know, I'd take a fraction of that money to write a book that doesn't sell.

BORGER: Right.

BERMAN: I'm just --

BORGER: Me too. Let's do it together.

BERMAN: I'm just throwing it out there.

BORGER: OK.

BERMAN: I -- you know, I would charge much less for a non-seller.

BORGER: Me, too.

KEILAR: I would write a book that doesn't sell for free probably.

BORGER: OK. Well, I think someone will probably take you up on that this morning, Brianna.

KEILAR: Gloria -- all right. Gloria, in real life, I'm here in -- I'm sitting with her, John Berman.

BORGER: It's so good. I know, it's so nice. Come on. Come on. Come on down.

KEILAR: I have this privilege. Here she is.

BORGER: Yes.

KEILAR: It's great to see you, Gloria Borger.

BORGER: Good to see you, Bri.

KEILAR: Just ahead, new reporting on how the coronavirus pandemic could have been so much worse, especially for children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:52:36]

BERMAN: All right, breaking news.

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy just announced he will not support a 9/11-style commission to study the Capitol insurrection or investigate it. He wrote, quote, given the political misdirections that have marred this process, given the now duplicative and potentially counterproductive nature of this effort and given the speaker's short sided scope that does not examine interrelated forms of political violence in America, I cannot support this legislation.

Legislation, by the way, that was negotiated by a Republican, John Katko of New York.

Back with us again, Gloria Borger.

So, Gloria, there you have it, McCarthy's against it.

BORGER: I think it's a complete abdication of his political responsibility, of his responsibility to history, and to every person in this country who needs to get to the bottom of what happened on January 6th. Not only is it an abdication, but he also threw his own person, Congressman Katko, a Republican, who negotiated this in good faith, with Democrats, so they could come up with a way to do an investigation that would be bipartisan. And in saying he doesn't support it, he's saying to Republicans, OK, go out and say whatever you want about it and we know that, just last week, there were Republicans who were out there saying that the insurrection was effectively a walk in the park by a bunch of tourists. It gives them permission to keep telling these lies.

KEILAR: He's trying to, Gloria, pretend in a way that this didn't happen. That it's not something that warrants really an investigation, which is what many Republicans believe. He talks about there being misdirections. The misdirections are coming from his party.

BORGER: Right, it's -- and it's just an excuse, you know? It's an excuse. It's an excuse to say we don't, you know, we don't want to look back. Every time we talk about January 6th, it's not good for us, Republicans, and maybe McCarthy could be subpoenaed, for example, to talk about his conversation with Donald Trump that day.

BERMAN: Yes, exactly. That's a really important point here.

BORGER: Sure.

BERMAN: You are getting this statement, this opposition from a potential witness who might be asked to appear under subpoena and testify under oath.

BORGER: Yes. And we know -- and we know exactly what Donald Trump said to him that day and what McCarthy said back to him that day, and we understand that it wouldn't look good for the president and I think McCarthy wants to avoid all of that completely.

[08:55:04]

KEILAR: You know, it seems like this is -- it's a time where the Congress needs to really be reflecting on what happened on January 6th. What is clear is that what prompted January 6th to happen, Gloria, it's not something that has gone by the wayside. This is still very much a concern. You do -- we just heard Reverend Franklin Graham talking about how many Americans, as he breathed life into the big lie himself, how many Americans have concerns, as he put it, about the election. This is not something that's going away.

I try to think of -- you know, imagine there not be a 9/11 Commission. Imagine there not being a look into what happened for the sake of history and for making sure that something like this, which is incredibly serious and significant. That it doesn't happen again.

BORGER: Right. And, you know, I think, you know, you've had our law enforcement agencies talk about domestic terrorism as one of the largest problems that we are facing in this country right now. More than 400 people have been arrested in -- or charged in terms of the insurrection that we saw on January 6th.

The American public needs to get answers about this. And I know that Republicans in the House want to broaden this so they can say, OK, there's a lot of it going on, on both sides. I mean we understand that's what's going on here.

What the country wants to talk about now and wants to understand is just how January 6th occurred and what was behind it. There is plenty of time to investigate everything.

Look, now we have to watch to see and listen for what Mitch McConnell has to say about this. McCarthy, maybe not so much of a surprise.

BORGER: Right.

BERMAN: Where will this go in the Senate? We will keep you all posted on that.

Gloria, thank you very much.

BORGER: Sure.

BERMAN: So a lot went wrong with America's response to the coronavirus pandemic. But what can be learned as a result? Michael Lewis has a new book "The Premonition: A Pandemic Story" that addresses that question by telling the stories of people who work in public health and who were among the first to raise alarms over what was to come.

Michael Lewis joins us now.

Great to see you. Big fan of all your work. You always seem to find the most interesting characters.

Before we get to the book itself, I am curious if you got a chance to talk to some of these people who really saw it coming in different ways about what they think about where we are now. Now that, you know, nearly half the country has one dose of the vaccine, now that mask restrictions have been lifted. Where do they think we're going, Michael?

MICHAEL LEWIS, AUTHOR, "THE PREMONITION: A PANDEMIC STORY": Well, they have two concerns, two big concerns. One is that, you know, the virus evolving anywhere is a -- is a threat everywhere. So you look at what's -- the Indian variant or the Brazilian variant and you worry that not just that it's more transmissible but that it finds a way around the vaccines and that -- that -- that you are sort of applying (ph) every time that you let this thing run in other countries and it seems like it's a long way away, but you're essentially playing like Russian roulette with evolution.

So they're watching those things. And the political -- the way that politics are playing out in the states, the idea that you tell everybody they can kind of take off their masks if they're -- if they're vaccinated and how that's heard. The kind of people who don't want to wear masks anyway are also pretty correlated with people who didn't get vaccinated. So, you know, the messaging on that is a little perplexing to them.

But, generally, I think what they're all thinking is like, did we -- we just -- we just dramatized the absence of a system to deal with this threat. Like, what are we going to do to fix this society so when it -- if and when it happens it can -- we don't -- we don't have the same experience.

KEILAR: We just heard recently, Michael, from Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine that she doesn't see the CDC as the gold standard. We asked our Dr. Sanjay Gupta about that. He tends to agree on that. And the CDC really, in your book, doesn't fare too well. LEWIS: You know, and it wasn't -- I didn't set out to tell that story,

but the characters took me where they took me. And these were people who were in -- who were sort of preparing for this for 15 years. And you see them collide over and over, especially -- especially on the ground where they're fighting disease and kind of all -- trying to contain local outbreaks. The CDC had become a kind of an academic institution that didn't engage. And in the case of the main character of the book, a local health officer named Charity Dean (ph), she found herself having to ban the CDC from disease outbreak investigations because they just got in the way.

So I think the institution drifted in a way, like not just that institution, but other federal government institutions that drifted, and I think they've drifted because we just hadn't paid them enough attention. I mean the -- we ought to think about how they're structured more. We sort of thought I think they ran on autopilot, and they don't. They're just a bunch of people.

BERMAN: Michael Lewis, we can't thank you enough for joining us. The book, like all your books, deals with truth, people willing to speak truth to power to buck systems and find things that are different and have the courage to speak about them.

[09:00:04]

The book is called "The Premonition: A Pandemic Story." Couldn't recommend it enough.

Thank you so much.

LEWIS: Thanks for having me.

BERMAN: There's a lot going.