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New York Attorney General Announces Criminal Probe into Trump Organization; Key Pro-Trump Lawmakers Oppose Commission on Pro-Trump Riot. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 19, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: In any of his previous 49 starts over three seasons.

[07:00:04]

But now Turnbull owns the fifth no-hitter of this season, just the second time ever we've seen that maybe before June in baseball history. The record for a season for no-hitters is eight. That was set way back in 1884, about four months to try to beat that record.

All right, New Day continues right now.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman on this New Day.

A dramatic development overnight, New York State's investigation into the Trump Organization turning criminal. It's adding new heat to the probe of the former president, his family and his supposedly multi- billion dollar business operation.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: New reporting this morning, Republican leaders in the House and Senate are getting cold feet about the investigation into the Capitol insurrection. So what are they afraid of?

KEILAR: The conspiracy theory-based audit of Arizona's presidential election is pressing on despite an embarrassing mistake sparking outrage from Republican officials.

BERMAN: And big news for the Big Apple. America's largest city officially ditching face masks for vaccinated people today.

KEILAR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Wednesday, May 19th. And this investigation into former President Trump's business empire is taking a dramatic turn. CNN was the first to break this story overnight that New York's attorney general and the Manhattan district attorney are joining forces in a criminal probe of the Trump Organization.

The announcement coming in this short direct statement, quote, we have informed the Trump Organization that our investigation into the organization is no longer purely civil in nature. We're now actively investigating the Trump Organization in a criminal capacity with along with the Manhattan D.A.

BERMAN: Now, their office has been looking into whether Trump's businesses inflated the value of assets for loans and tax benefits. Secondly, the Manhattan D.A. has been investigating the organization's finances, including Trump's tax returns.

No response yet from Trump's lawyers. He's now facing investigations from five independently elected officials from Georgia, to New York to Washington, D.C.

Joining us now, CNN Legal Analyst and former Federal Prosecutor Elliot Williams and CNN Contributor and Donald Trump biographer Michael D'Antonio.

Elliot, I just want to start with you here. Something has changed. Clearly, something has changed here. The state of New York, the A.G.'s office was looking at the Trump Organization as a civil matter, now it's criminal. What does this tell you?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes. Look, you know, those pictures of those memes online of how it started and how it ended, 2020-2021, remember, this started, the president's legal woes in New York with looking into Stormy Daniels and payments to porn stars. And it's now sort of blown up into what looks like a major financial investigation.

What it appears to be, John, is that the A.G.'s office, in the course of investigating civil wrongs by the president, found something that just didn't look right and appeared to have some sort of criminal element to it and brought the D.A.'s office in. This allows them to cool resources, share information. And, in effect, helps both offices' investigations out.

KEILAR: And, Michael, I imagine there are more than a few people who are looking at this and they are worried. Explain how the Trump Organization is structured and who might be kind of fearful right now that this investigation has gone from civil to criminal.

MICHAEL D'ANTONIO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, within the Trump Organization, there's always been this effort to separate things. So, Allen Weisselberg, the chief financial officer, has often said that he didn't ask certain questions, so he would overhear something going on and then kind of turn away from it in order to avoid legal responsibility.

So there's always been this kind of dance of officials within the Trump Organization, whether it's Weisselberg or the attorney, Alan Garten, or lower level employees who are put in charge of various aspects of Trump's business.

The thing that I think is fascinating here is that we're finally seeing exposed the fact that Trump has always used the tax system and the financial world as kind of an opportunity to make money. So this idea that you borrow more on a property than perhaps it's worth by submitting false documents and then pay less in taxes than you should by also submitting another set of false documents is standard operating procedure.

So, all of sudden, this is being uncovered. And I think there are a great many people within the organization who know where the bodies are buried and are now contemplating whether to flip.

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BERMAN: Barbara Res, who we're going to have on next hour, who worked in the Trump Organization, said there was an attitude inside that laws were for stupid people. We'll talk to her about that and try to get a sense of how that applies to what we're seeing now.

Elliot, so how serious would you say this new phase is for the Trump Organization?

WILLIAMS: Look, talk of criminal penalties is always serious, but we shouldn't jump right to the conclusion that individuals in the Trump Organization are necessarily going to be charged with crimes. There are any number of penalties that a corporation can be hit with in the course of a criminal investigation, starting with restitution to victims and fines and fees and losing their license.

Now, if individuals within the Trump -- individual workers and members of the Trump family directed criminal activity or engaged in criminal activity on their own, then, yes, they can be charged with a crime. People should be (INAUDIBLE) yes.

KEILAR: I wonder, Michael, is there family members -- should family members be worried this morning?

D'ANTONIO: Well, I think within the organization, especially when it came to financial documents and tax documents, there was great care taken regarding who signs what. And so in the end, it was almost always Donald Trump himself who signed on the bottom line, and I think he would be the person, as Elliot would describe it, most in peril legally.

But there's no doubt that the Trump children have participated in pretty shady schemes. The Manhattan D.A. Vance actually let them off the hook about five years ago when it came to a property where they were offering condominiums with false claims. And so I would be surprised if there isn't some culpability for them, if not, criminal liability.

KEILAR: Very interesting. Elliot Williams, Michael D'Antonio, good morning to both of you. It's great to see you.

WILLIAMS: Good morning.

D'ANTONIO: Thanks.

KEILAR: In just a few hours, House lawmakers are expected to vote on establishing a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6th Capitol riot, but pushback from top Republicans in the House and the Senate could put the commission in jeopardy, and CNN's Lauren Fox is here with the latest on this. What's going on here?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what you have right now in the House Republican conference is really disarray over whether or not to support this commission. You had John Katko come to an agreement with his Democratic counterpart. Then, of course, yesterday, you had McCarthy say, I don't support this deal. And that puts a lot of pressure on Republican members who thought that they were going to support this commission, especially because they already had a deal in the past supporting a similar kind of commission. I think that puts them in a tough spot.

In the Senate, you need ten Republican senators to back this bill. Right now, it's not clear they have that in part because Republican members walked their members yesterday eating lunch through of the issues with the current House legislation. One of the concerns that they have, of course, is that this is not broad enough. That has been one of the sticking points. What is the scope? What should the scope be? And McConnell really pointed his members to the work that the committees are already doing on this issue.

Now, McConnell's style really is to sort of lead his conference to water, if you will. He's not somebody who comes out and says, I want everyone in lock step on this. His style is very nuanced, very different, in a sense that he wants members to understand why there might be issues with the current form of the House bill. That's exactly what he did yesterday.

Of course, that's a juxtaposition from what we have heard from McConnell in the past when it comes to his concerns and the need for some kind of investigation over what happened on January 6th.

KEILAR: Yes. He's had concerns. He's blamed Trump, in fact, and he's done so on the Senate floor.

I want to ask you about something that's happening on House side, because there are a number of Republicans who are saying, enough with these fines for not wearing a mask, we're not wearing masks on the House floor. And we should point out that some of these folks -- I mean, these are not necessarily the folks you would think of. These are maybe more moderate or more mainstream Republicans.

FOX: Well, you had Representative Brian Mast really starting this whole issue of whether or not you should be wearing a mask on the floor. Of course, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has argued, until she sees a higher vaccination rate, she wants people to keep wearing masks on the House floor.

We should note that in much of the Capitol complex, you are free to go without a mask if you are vaccinated. Now, some of the members that we saw on the floor yesterday declined to respond to CNN's survey of whether or not they were vaccinated, so we don't really have a good accounting of every single member who was without a mask on the House floor yesterday and whether or not they are vaccinated.

I think that's an important point here. [07:10:00]

Because, yes, the CDC guidelines are that you do not have to wear a mask indoors if you are vaccinated. And I think that remains continues to be a key question mark for a lot of House Republicans that didn't respond to our survey. We just don't have a great sense of whether or not some of those members are actually vaccinated.

And, again, it's a House rule and many of them were issued warnings or fines for breaking those rules, Brianna. And I think that that is sort of what they're talking about in much of the Capitol complex, again, you're free to go without a mask if you are vaccinated. Pelosi wants to see that vaccine rate go up before she changes the rules.

KEILAR: And they pull those fines out of their salaries. So, it's not like they cut a check once they get their paycheck, just to be clear here. Lauren, it's great to see you. Thank you so much. John?

BERMAN: All right. I want to bring in Democratic Congressman Pete Aguilar. He is the vice chair of the House Democratic Caucus. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us.

I want to talk about the January 6th commission. House Republican leadership is now telling its membership to vote against this commission after their man negotiated a deal on their terms. How surprised are you?

REP. PETE AGUILAR (D-CA): Well, it's tough to be surprised when House Republican leadership gets involved here. But I think it's very clear that the Republican leadership, specially Kevin McCarthy, is trying to whitewash the deadly insurrection that happened on January 6th. And so I think it begs the question, what is he trying to hide? And doesn't he want to get to the truth? That's all we're focused on here. That's all the commission will be focused on. And it's just unfortunate that House Republican leadership is weighing on what has become a bipartisan bill and what will be a bipartisan bill when we vote today.

BERMAN: So, Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, we just reported, behind closed doors, is going through with his members. How many other committees are investigating aspects of the insurrection and saying, that may be enough? Why do you think that's not enough?

AGUILAR: Well, we need an independent review. And maybe the House of Representatives will also have additional tools in order to investigate. We have committees as well who are doing the investigation and are asking through oversight question what happened on January 6th. The House Administration Committee that I serve on today will be having an important hearing.

But I think what's important here, what the public deserves is a bipartisan commission, which is exactly what Republicans asked for with the composition that was evenly split, five Democrats, five Republicans. That's what Ranking Member Katko and Chairman Bennie Thompson negotiated. That's meets the parameters. And, unfortunately, Republican leadership can't yes for an answer. BERMAN: It's interesting, because there are some people out there saying, why bother having Republicans help with this? Former Republican Kurt Bardella, who was a Republican staffer on the Hill for a while, he's left the party, he said, asking Republicans to investigate January 6th is like asking Al Qaeda investigate 9/11, the people who helped plan promote the attack aren't going to be partners in the investigation. Is he right?

AGUILAR: Well, what we're saying is -- and this is something that we want bipartisanship around the country. It's tough. Sometimes you're under the dome to have that bipartisanship. But in order to bring the country along, we think a bipartisan commission is the right call.

And keep in mind these would not be members of Congress who would be serving. These would independent experts, civil rights, law enforcement, specific individuals who can help us ascertain what happened on January 6th, what led up to it, and how the big lie that the president put forward and continues to advocate, how that perpetuated what happened on January 6th.

BERMAN: Does Kevin McCarthy need to testify under oath?

AGUILAR: Well, I would leave that to a commission who would have bipartisan subpoena power, again, another thing that Republicans asked for and they received. But it does beg the question, what is he afraid of?

BERMAN: Would you like to see hear him testify under oath?

AGUILAR: Well, I think anyone connected to the events and anyone who talked to command and control on January 6 does have something to say and should be asked hard questions. And, clearly, the Republican leader discussed with the president that day what was happening and maybe that will be the subject of conversations moving forward.

BERMAN: And should the former president be called to testify?

AGUILAR: I'll leave that to the commission. And, again, I mean, this would be a bipartisan commission. They should be allowed to scope in order to get to the findings on what happened on the 6th.

BERMAN: And just to be clear, if the Republican members of that commission did not sign on, or at least one of them to subpoena, it won't happen. People are losing sight of that. Congressman Pete Aguilar, thanks for joining us this morning. I appreciate it.

AGUILAR: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: All right. More on the big story this morning, the Trump Organization facing another criminal investigation, a new development overnight.

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New York's attorney general has now joined the criminal probe into the former president. What will Donald Trump's response be? KEILAR: And the firm behind Arizona's election audit admitting to a major blunder. We will speak with the former Republican senator from Arizona, Jeff Flake, about the conspiracy theories that are consuming his state.

BERMAN: And President Biden's cringeworthy joke to avoid taking questions.

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KEILAR: New York's attorney general, Letitia James, revealing her investigation into the Trump Organization's financial dealings is now focused on potential criminal wrongdoing, not just civil. CNN was the first to break this story last night.

And joining me now discuss this and some other topics, CNN Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins. Okay. And, Kaitlan, you covered the entirety of the Trump administration. What is this going to mean for the former president and for his family?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think it remains to be seen. But one thing that we would know pretty sure is that it does pose a greater risk to him.

[07:20:00]

Because, before, what he was facing really with this could have been financial penalties. He's kind of faced those kind of investigations really of all of his career while in New York. It happened with his charity. It's happened with several other endeavors of his. But what I think this shows is that now, of course, there could be a criminal penalty here. That could be an actual threat to Donald Trump's liberty here. And so I think that's where the risk stands.

And I also think that the big question that is going to be facing them is just how wide-ranging this is going to be now that there is this crossover between these two investigations, because we know Cyrus Vance has Donald Trump's tax returns and they've been poring through them. And so the question of what that means ultimately and how that affects him, it's unclear. But it obviously poses a much greater risk than what the former president was already facing.

And we know that as he was leaving office, when he was protesting the outcome of the election, this was a concern that he had, was potentially being charged now that he doesn't have that protection of being the sitting president.

KEILAR: Yes. There's no way he's looking at this and feeling anything but a little concerned at this point in time.

Let's talk about January 6th and this idea of a commission by Congress to look into what happened. We're expecting this vote in the House. Democrats obviously control the House, so it will pass. In the Senate, it seems like signs are pointing towards this is not going to have Republican support for the way it is now. Where do you see this going? COLLINS: I think it remains to be seen, but it's so notable to see this shift of Republicans from how they are now and what they were like on January 7th. When they were sick and tired of Trump, they had just been through this attempted insurrection that happened on the Hill, they had been there, their own lives at risk. And now you're seeing the shift in people, like Kevin McCarthy, and I think it's because, of course, the political aspect of this has come into sharper view. What happens in 2022? Will they take back the House? How much do they need former President Trump to do so?

And I think that's the only reason you're going to see any of them oppose this commission. And that's why Kevin McCarthy is coming out of it. He's saying that it's because they're not investigating left-wing violence enough, and the scope of that would not go far enough. But I think it's clear that he knows that if he came out in support of this commission, he would face retribution from the former president, who also came out against this last night in a statement, unsurprisingly. And I think that is what is at the center of all of this.

But you are some Republicans saying, we don't really have a firm ground to stand on for why we should oppose this. They have not come out with a cohesive reason that I think is getting a lot of Republican support.

BERMAN: I want to ask about Chris Christie, if I can. Because right now, the groundswell for former Governor Christie to run for president, I think, includes mostly just Chris Christie. Still, he is making it clear that he's going to wait until at least the midterms to make a decision. And listen to more of what he said about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ) (voice over): And I'm also not going to be one of these people who's going to say, well, I'll wait to see what President Trump is going to do. I'm not going to defer to anyone if I decide that it's what I want to do and then I think I'm the best option for the party and for the country.

And I think if you say you're deferring to someone, that's a real sign of both weakness and indecision.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The chair and membership of the Chris Christie caucus speaking out, Kaitlan. I guess my question is, how do you think the former president will respond to this? Because Christie, who was in support of the former president, was saying, I don't tonal care what Donald Trump does.

COLLINS: Yes. He was obviously a supporter. He said that he voted for him. Remember, he was at the White House often during the COVID-19 saga, when a lot of people got it. But also he was there helping the former president with debate prep going into that. And he was someone that the former president relied on.

But I think who Chris Christie is taking a shot out there is not just saying, I'm not going to wait at the feet of Donald Trump to find out if he's going to run in 2024, which is, of course, something that has been widely speculated. But the one person who you think of that has said they are going to wait to see what the former president does is a Nikki Haley, who said she is not going to run for president if former President Trump runs.

And so I think this is really going to speak to a split that we are going to see all of these former or potential GOP hopefuls on edge going forward as to what to do and how to navigate this political landscape coming into 2024 because they don't know if he's going to run. They think he's going to probably wait until the last minute. You've seen him attacking people, like the former vice president, who, and it's pretty widely speculated, he also would like to run in 2024.

And so I think you're going to see the division playing out among those GOP hopefuls while they're all waiting to try to get the former president's support. And, of course, I'm sure he's going to dangle it in front of him before he decides who actually gets it if he himself doesn't run.

KEILAR: I believe any of them are not watching to see what Trump does -- so much.

COLLINS: Right.

KEILAR: President Biden dodged a question about Israel during an event in Michigan yesterday, and let's look, because then he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Mr. President, can I ask you a quick question on Israel before you drive away because it's so important?

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: No, you can't, unless you get in front of the car as I step on it. I'm only teasing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:25:00]

KEILAR: Okay. I mean, give me a break with the joke. But also these questions need to be answered.

COLLINS: Yes. It's a little bit cringeworthy. He did say he was teasing, but given all the attacks on the press, making a joke like that, obviously not in the best line. But I do think the greater point is not that joke, is that's he is not answering questions about what's happening in the Middle East, this violence that has been underway now for ten days in a row. And it's been a strategy on his part.

And he does not want to talk about it at length publicly. And he's been asked about it multiple times. He's only said really short -- given really short answers, like I'll be speaking the prime minister or I'll be doing this. But it is not -- since he took office, this was not a priority of his, trying to secure peace in the Middle East, an issue that has obviously plagued a lot of presidents.

But I think what we're learning from our reporting behind the scenes is that he is feeling the pressure that is coming from his own party, Democrats, progressives, but even other leaders, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi calling for a ceasefire when the U.S. has not formally called for one explicitly yet.

And I do think that that's a sign of that, that he thinks that talking about this with the prime minister in private is probably a better route to go. We know that he took a firmer stance with him in their call. But, publicly, he's not really talking about it.

And I think that inside the White House, they realize that's not a sustainable tactic for much longer if this continues to go on.

KEILAR: Yes, because we're seeing the pictures, they are disturbing, what we are seeing between Israel and the Palestinians.

Kaitlan, thank you so much for coming into the studio, I really appreciate it.

Republicans who claim to be auditing the Arizona election results are dropping actually one of their craziest claims. Why? Well, because it wasn't true.

BERMAN: Imagine that. And an Indianapolis woman looking to refinance her home says appraisers low-balled her because she was black. So what happened when she fooled them into thinking she was white?

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