Return to Transcripts main page
New Day
Trump Spending Post-Presidency; Albert Watkins is Interviewed about His Comments; FAA Warns of Pilot Safety. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired May 19, 2021 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: I have the tambourine. I can -- I'm backup vocals.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE LEAD": So -- so perhaps -- perhaps in a week or so -- OK, yes, I love it. Let's do it.
KEILAR: All right.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, the book, "The Devil May Dance" is available now. It is a wonderful. Don't miss it for a second.
KEILAR: All right, Jake, thank you so much.
BERMAN: New CNN reporting this morning on Donald Trump. What he is spending his post-presidency allowance from the government on and why.
And the offensive defense move by the QAnon shaman's lawyer. Casual insults or cold, legal calculation? We'll ask him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: Former President Trump is spending the bulk of his post- presidency allowance on several ex-White House staffers so that he can keep them by his side. CNN has records that show they're making six figures and pretty up there six figures.
CNN's Gabby Orr is with us now with more on her reporting.
OK, who's making the big bucks here, Gabby?
GABBY ORR, CNN REPORTER: So he has about ten staffers who are working for him, previously at Mar-a-Lago. Now that he's shifted up to Bedminster, New Jersey, they're surrounding him there.
[08:35:03]
And everybody from Dan Scavino to Stephen Miller, names that we obviously recognize from the West Wing during Trump's presidency, they are still making, you know, anywhere from $150,000 annually to $172,000, which is the maximum cap that somebody can be making as a transition staffer for a post president. So there's quite a few aides who are surrounding him who are helping
him with the statements that he's putting out, helping him with his political strategy. But what we know about the way that Trump is spending his money is really unique in the sense that he's paying these high-priced aides to stick around him. He's not using expensive office space, which is something that former presidents have done. He's working out of Mar-a-Lago. He's working out of Bedminster, properties that he owns. So he's saving money in that sense. But everything that he's saving is going toward those six-figure salaries for his staff.
KEILAR: So is that what's atypical compared to his predecessors, the -- not the office space and paying the staff, or are there other things that are different as well?
ORR: Right. No, that's pretty atypical. I mean former presidents, whether they served one term or two terms, are usually given -- they are given a six-month allowance to spend on whatever they want. Basically postage, printing, office space, I mean that's typically what those costs go to cover.
For Trump, again, it's been keeping ten staffers around him for the past six months. Already we know, based on records that CNN obtained, that he spent $1.26 million just to pay for his staff's salaries. So it is a large sum of money that's going to keep these aides around him. And the big question is, what does he do when this money dries up?
KEILAR: Yes.
ORR: He's only being paid -- or, he only has this allowance through July 21st. So he has about a month and a half to figure out, does he want to start paying out of pocket to keep these same folks around him or does he want to turn to his war chest?
KEILAR: Yes.
ORR: That's the big question.
KEILAR: I suspect he does not want to pay out of pocket based on his -- if past is prologue on how he likes to pay people for their services. We'll see.
Gabby, great reporting. Thank you.
ORR: Thanks.
BERMAN: So the attorney for Jacob Chansley, the so-called QAnon shaman who stormed the Capitol on January 6th, is drawing criticism over remarks he made when he was talking about the defense strategy for his clients. And I want to warn you, this is offensive, but they are his words.
Albert Watkins says, quote, a lot of these defendants, and I'm going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully, but they're all f'ing short-bus people. These are people with brain damage. They're f'ing retarded. They're on the God damn spectrum but they're our brothers, our sisters, our neighbors, our co-workers, they're part of our country. They aren't bad people. They don't have prior criminal history. F, they were subjected to four-plus years of God damn propaganda, the likes of which the world has not seen since f'ing Hitler.
And Albert Watkins joins me now.
Counselor, the Special Olympics says the "r" word is a form of hate speech and that the word has become an insult used all too commonly in everyday language. Would you like to apologize this morning?
ALBERT WATKINS, ATTORNEY FOR JACOB CHANSLEY, AKA "THE QANON SHAMAN": No.
BERMAN: How does offending millions of Americans help your clients?
WATKINS: For five-plus months, or for five months, I have worked diligently, not just with the assistant U.S. attorney, the Department of Justice, the courts but with the national media, including CNN, to bring to the fore this very issue.
I was on Chris Cuomo when he decided the way to respond to my suggestion that these people needed compassion and patience and help was to call them crazy. And you know what? For five months, I acted professionally. I talked to the people that needed to know. I made sure that the Department of Justice had the opportunity firsthand to meet with my client, the guy who was shirtless with horns, tattoos, a fur, to have them understand and appreciate the condition, the special needs of my client.
I let them talk to my client while he is confined. Not once, not twice, but multiple times. And I got nowhere. All I had to do was get vulgar, get vulgar in a short sound bite driven quote that permitted this very issue to come to the fore.
BERMAN: Well, there are two issues here. There are two issues here. Number one, are you serving your clients well by saying this?
WATKINS: Oh, absolutely, I am.
BERMAN: And number -- and then number two -- and then number two, how are you serving the American people? Using hate speech like this, as the Special Olympics says, I mean you can get attention by setting your hair on fire. It doesn't mean you should do it.
WATKINS: Well, that -- that's good. And the good news is, I'm not setting my hair on fire.
[08:40:02]
The fact is --
BERMAN: You're just using what the Special Olympics says is hate speech.
WATKINS: When you're done pontificating, I'm happy to talk.
The fact of the matter is, what I'm doing is that which is necessary to be done to put absolutely in the spotlight the fact that our nation is running a gulag, in effect taking people with vulnerabilities, with special needs, with sensitivities that put them in a category of being outside of what medical science may say is the bell curve of normalcy. And we're putting them in solitary confinement.
BERMAN: Well, let me --
WATKINS: You ask any doctor, the way to treat people who are vulnerable is not to put them in solitary confinement for 23 hours a day.
BERMAN: Well, let me ask -- let me say this to you. In that statement that I just read using all those different, vulgar terms, you actually conflate a number of conditions which are all different, but there's no evidence that there's --
WATKINS: That word conflate -- that --
BERMAN: Yes, you listened -- you --
WATKINS: That word conflate is incorrect. No, look at the comma. The comma means and. The --
BERMAN: You use a number of -- all right, take -- take -- take the cord conflate out then if that's the way you want to play it. You list a number of conditions with -- which are all different. But the important thing is, is that there's no evidence that any of those conditions which you state cause people to act violently or criminally as the people --
WATKINS: Well, I -- you're not talking --
BERMAN: As the people in the insurrection are now charged with, correct?
WATKINS: When you're done talking -- when you're done talking.
BERMAN: I'm -- I'm -- I'm asking you --
WATKINS: The fact of the matter is -- I'm -- then -- then be quiet and I'll be happy to answer you.
BERMAN: Listen, listen, listen, do -- what is the evidence --
WATKINS: The fact of the matter is, Asperger's actually -- Asperger's -- Asperger's --
BERMAN: What is the evidence that -- that those conditions caused people to act criminally? There isn't any.
WATKINS: No, there is definitely evidence to say that somebody with Asperger's, by way of example, does not take or receive social cues the way others do. When the government is aware of that, when the government has a duty and an obligation to disclose exculpatory evidence to me and they don't, and when they deal with people with vulnerabilities by putting them in solitary confinement, somebody has to speak up. And if the only way to get you and everyone else to understand that you're as accountable as I am and everybody else is about permitting this to occur in our nation, then I'll do it. I'll do it all day long. Vulgarity gets and drives your sound bites, and I'm here to exploit it.
BERMAN: Again, I will only state again that whatever conditions you listed there, they do not cause people to commit violence. It -- there's not evidence of that to commit violence or (INAUDIBLE).
WATKINS: No, there is no evidence -- and my client's -- my -- there's no client -- no evidence of my client's violence.
BERMAN: Or crimes.
WATKINS: There's no evidence -- you know, there -- it is important when there's a dialogue that you permit someone to talk. There is --
BERMAN: You've talked way more than I have, Counselor.
WATKINS: Actually, no, all I've done is listen to you tell me whatever it is that you want to pontificate about. I'm -- I'm happy to let you talk. The air time here that's important is that our nation is permitting people with vulnerabilities to be held in a gulag with 22, 23 hours a day in solitary confinement. And there's no indication or evidence of violence.
In the case of my client, Jacob Chansley, the government actually incorrectly represented to the court that my client was leading the charge into the Capitol and did so without permission, when in truth and in fact I provided video to the government that what my client --
BERMAN: Well, the judge -- the judge in this case -- the judge in this case has said that the statements that you made were incorrect and ruled against you in your claims there.
WATKINS: Yes, the evidence that I provided to the government is provided to the government after the last court appearance. What the government provided erroneous evidence to the court. I am not -- this is not castigating the court.
BERMAN: The court -- the court --
WATKINS: This is -- this is our government. Our government. Your government.
BERMAN: The court -- the court -- the court -- the court, in the past, again, said that before, apparently in the timeline here, that what you presented to them wasn't true or just didn't matter in terms of holding your client.
Let me ask you this --
WATKINS: That -- that would be accurate. BERMAN: OK. Good. Glad we agree on that.
The "Trump made me do it" defense, which is -- and you're representing four clients here. But the Trump made me do it defense, which -- which you are trying, to an extent here, do you think it applies to all the insurrectionists?
WATKINS: No, no, there are -- there are a lot of people who did have vulnerabilities and in the case of my clients, I'm not saying that the words and the actions of Trump caused them to act with criminality. What I'm saying is, the words and the actions of Trump absolutely have to be kept into consideration when you're evaluating the culpability of a criminally accused. That's different from evaluating the guilt.
BERMAN: I want to end with this. There's a January 6th commission. Congress may vote to institute this commission. They may have subpoena power. I'm just wondering, if they did get the former president before them to answer questions, what question would you want the former president to answer?
WATKINS: What the hell did you mean when you said we're going to have to walk down -- we're going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue together? Why would you say that and not go down with them?
[08:45:02]
Why would you call these people beautiful people? Why choose that word? Why choose that word and then turn your back and walk into the sunset, hand in hand with Lil Wayne getting a pardon.
BERMAN: Albert Watkins, councilor, I appreciate you joining us this morning. I will only note that, you know, vulgar, hurtful language, I don't think is a way -- a good way to get attention. There are other ways.
WATKINS: The good news is, I don't work for you.
BERMAN: There are other ways.
Albert Watkins, appreciate you being here.
Up next, the airline getting a federal warning about the safety of some of its pilots. A CNN investigation, next.
KEILAR: And Andrew Giuliani wants New Yorkers to believe that he can be their governor. There are some other things he wants them to believe, too. We'll roll the tape.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KEILAR: If you buy a plane ticket through American Airlines, there is a chance that you'll take a flight on one of their airline's smaller carriers. I think we've all probably done this. And CNN has obtained documents showing that one of those carriers has received a federal warning about nine incidents involving its pilots.
CNN's Pete Muntean is with us now.
What is this about?
PETE MUNTEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the FAA says there's real issues with American Airlines' largest regional carrier, it is called Envoy Air, and the FAA says there is consistent evidence of problems with its pilots.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MUNTEAN (voice over): It is an airline that millions have flown on but might never know it. Now, new documents obtained by CNN detail a federal investigation into Envoy Air. It is the largest regional carrier for American Airlines, operating smaller jets between small cities and major hubs hundreds of times each day.
This Envoy flight that slid off a snowy Chicago runway is one of nine cases in 2019 and 2020 that the Federal Aviation Administration says showed serious problems with the pilots involved. In a letter to Envoy's CEO, an FAA investigator cites consistent evidence showing potential lack of airmanship, deeper than what spot training or counseling have been able to resolve.
PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: It is a big deal and it's disturbing.
MUNTEAN: Former NTSB managing director Peter Goelz reviewed the FAA warning and says incidents could have been much worse. The letter describes a flight last year when an Envoy crew should have been landing on this runway but instead aimed at a parallel runway less than half as long. The FAA says only a last-minute realization prevented a potentially catastrophic situation.
[08:50:05]
GOELZ: It means that we were, you know, literally seconds away from a potential accident with significant loss of life. It really is an issue of training and culture.
MUNTEAN: Regional airlines have long been the starting ground for newer, less experienced commercial pilots. In its letter, the FAA ordered Envoy to develop an action plan to deal with pilot issues. In a statement sent to CNN, Envoy insists nothing is more important than the safety of our customers and employees. The airline says it's working with regulators and its pilots union to examine the root cause of each potential issue and take any necessary, corrective actions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The fire is still burning from a plane that crashed into a house.
MUNTEAN: Regional airline regulations were overhauled after this 2009 crash of a Colgan Air flight in Buffalo, but aviation experts say these latest findings demand a new look at pilot qualifications, unchanged in almost a decade, especially since Envoy says its pilots are guaranteed a direct path to flying larger airplanes for American Airlines. In an exclusive interview, FAA Administrator Steve Dickson says
commercial flying is the safest it has ever been, but this shows the agency remains vigilant.
STEVE DICKSON, ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION: The good news story here is that this is a proactive action. It's based on data that we have been able to glean by working with the operator to identify where there might be areas of emerging risk that -- that they need to focus on and that we need to make sure that they are, not only compliant, but operating safely.
MUNTEAN (on camera): Should people feel safe?
DICKSON: Yes. Yes. But it's something to never take for granted. I certainly never take it for granted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MUNTEAN: The FAA says it's still working with Envoy to correct these issues but says these came about as part of its regular oversight. And Envoy says that this is just part of its data sharing with the FAA and shows that its system works.
Brianna.
KEILAR: All right, Pete Muntean, great report. Thank you.
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is embroiled in multiple scandals after several women have come forward and accused him of sexual harassment amid his administration's alleged cover-up of nursing home deaths in his state. And while Governor Cuomo denies all of those allegations in both cases, Republicans smell blood, including the son of one Rudy Giuliani.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: OK, let me know whenever you're ready.
Which one is that? Is that Ms. Manhattan or is that Lady Liberty? That's Lady Liberty over there.
So, everybody ready?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now, the last time empire state citizens elected a Republican to be governor, the U.S. had not yet invade Iraq, Ben Affleck and J. Lo were just about to get engaged, perhaps some things never change, and speaking of, Nelly was telling us it's getting hot in here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: My fellow New Yorkers, it's a great honor to be with you all here today to announce my fifth -- my candidacy to become the 57th governor of our great state of New York.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now Andrew Giuliani, 35 years old, fresh off a stint at golfing buddy and an aide to former President Trump, joining two other Trump Republicans so far in the race. His press conference was full of doozies, including why, despite wanting to be the leader of a state that has more coronavirus deaths than every state except California, he's saying no to getting vaccinated.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: I have the antibodies. I am not vaccinated but I -- but I continually get tested with the antibodies.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you planning to get vaccinated?
GIULIANI: I'm going to make that decision when I -- when I don't have the antibodies anymore. The one good thing about the antibodies, if you had it, is it actually is even better than the vaccine.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Not true. The immune response from vaccines is superior to the one from actually contracting COVID according to scientists and doctors. It's why, if you've previously contracted the virus, you're still advised to get the shot because it's unclear how long natural immunity lasts.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Now that it is lifted, tomorrow, I will be taking my mask. I have the antibodies, and I look forward to -- I look forward to a time when we have our individuality back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now that mask is clearly not stifling Andrew Giuliani's individuality, but it would stifle has ability, as an unvaccinated person, to do harm to others. Yes, the CDC's guidance has made more turns than an M. Night Shyamalan movie. One of the constants, though, for the past 14 months, if you're not vaccinated, wear a mask.
So, Giuliani isn't about protecting New Yorkers from coronavirus, he says he wants to protect them from Andrew Cuomo.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: I think we've all seen how Andrew Cuomo has served himself. We see $5 million for a book deal.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Now that bit is completely fair. Cuomo wrote a book about his supposedly superlative response to the pandemic, now very much under question, and his payday was huge.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Do you believe that you'll be -- if that happens, you'll be facing Governor Cuomo?
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: It's a good question. And I think it's tough to handicap that race, if I was a good handicapper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[08:55:02]
KEILAR: But Andrew Giuliani did once claim, however, to be quite the handicapper. As a college guy, he once sued Duke University after being cut from the golf team. The case reportedly dismissed, by the way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What makes you qualified for this?
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Sure. Well, I am the only candidate that spent parts of five different decades of my life in politics or public service.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: To be clear, Andrew Giuliani is not promising to make math great again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you get five decades? You're only 35.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you -- how do you think it's going to go over -- how do you think it's going to go over with New Yorkers?
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: Parts of five decades. Let -- let me clarify. I said parts of five decades in there. So, if we go back through it, my father's first campaign was 1989. So we could do the math. I spent 32 -- parts of 32 years in politics.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Because, reminder, he's 35. So by osmosis it appears he's saying that he absorbed his father's five decades of professional work, even though he personally wasn't alive for all of those decades. He was, to be fair, around politics quite a bit.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUDY GIULIANI: Do solemnly swear.
So help me God.
I'm going to have a co-addressee, I guess, Andrew.
To our city, I thank them very much.
Major Koch.
Take to remove our structural budget deficit.
Ingenuity, the same sensitivity, the same talent, the same courage that our --
It should be so, and it will be so.
A. GIULIANI: And it will be so.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Pretty cute, actually.
The elephant of his young candidacy is his father. Rudy Giuliani hasn't been charged with anything and he denies committing any crimes. But the feds did just raid his home and office for an investigation into his lobbying efforts, among other things, and he's being sued by House Democrats for inciting the insurrection. So will dad become a liability?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: When you've got the greatest prosecutor in the history of the southern district and you've got the greatest mayor, not this -- not just in the history of New York, but in the history of America, you're foolish if you don't use him as an asset.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Now, this is Andrew Giuliani on Russian state media recently claiming that folks don't want to live in a country where investigations, like the one into his dad, can happen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDREW GIULIANI (R), NEW YORK GOVERNOR CANDIDATE: So it's been people who are very strong Trump supporters and some who have not been Trump supporters. They don't want to live in a country where you're going to have a Justice Department that's going to politicize something to the point where a former president's personal counsel is going to actually be spied on by the Justice Department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Just an FYI, a federal judge signed off on that raid. This is not an unbridled Justice Department. But perhaps Andrew Giuliani is mistaken after spending four years working in the Trump White House where politicizing the DOJ was a daily task on the calendar.
We're back in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
