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New Day

Fate of January 6 Commission Uncertain; New York A.G. Investigating Taxes of Trump Organization CFO. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 20, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. I'm Brianna Keilar, alongside John Berman on this NEW DAY.

[06:00:02]

They demanded investigations on everything from Benghazi to Hunter Biden, but when it comes to the historic attack on the U.S. Capitol, most House Republicans say no, and now the Senate decides.

Plus, new details about the criminal investigation into the Trump Organization, including the man in charge of the money.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Disturbing video surfaces, proving that police initially lied about the death of a black man in custody, when the video shows them tasing, kicking and dragging him before his death.

And why did 62 Republicans vote against an anti-Asian-American hate crimes bill? The bill's sponsor joins us live to respond.

KEILAR: A very good morning to viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Thursday, May 20, and this morning Senate Republicans are facing the choice, truth or Trump.

A Senate vote on creating a bipartisan commission to investigate the January 6 Capitol insurrection could come as soon as next week, but getting ten Republican senators to buck leadership and join Democrats in supporting it may prove impossible.

In the House, these 35 Republicans broke rank, a rebuke of GOP leader Kevin McCarthy. But still, it's just a fraction of the caucus. One hundred seventy-five Republicans voted against the January 6 Commission.

The family of a U.S. Capitol Police officer who took his own life just days after the riot is pushing for this commission.

And overnight, anonymous members of the Capitol Police force penned a blistering letter to Republican leaders, accusing them of whitewashing history.

They write, quote, "It is inconceivable that some of the Members we protect would downplay the events of January 6th. With each passing week, a new revelation about January 6th reveals itself. A new indictment comes to light. Another news reel of USCP officers being assaulted is released, or some breaking news regarding somebody's involvement. With these constant reminders, it is unconscionable to even think anyone would suggest we need to move forward and get over it."

BERMAN: And on that note, the FBI released new videos of violent assaults during the attack on the Capitol. One shows a rioter beating a police officer with a baton.

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BERMAN: Another shows a rioter punching an officer with gloves that had metal knuckles.

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BERMAN: Congressman Tim Ryan, on the House floor, unloaded on his Republican colleagues for opposing the commission.

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REP. TIM RYAN (D-OH): We have people scaling the Capitol, hitting the Capitol Police with lead pipes across the head, and we can't get bipartisanship. What else has to happen in this country?

Cops. This is a slap in the face to every rank-and-file cop in the United States. If we're going to take on China, if we're going to rebuild the country, if we're going to reverse climate change, we need two political parties in this country that are both living in reality, and you ain't one of them.

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BERMAN: Congressman Ryan will join us next hour.

Now, there was a time when Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell appeared to care about this.

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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): Fellow Americans beat and bloodied our own police. They stormed the Senate floor. They tried to hunt down the speaker of the House. They built a gallows and chanted about murdering the vice president. They did this because they'd been fed wild falsehoods by the most powerful man on earth, because he was angry he'd lost an election.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: Now three months later, despite having said all that, he says it is not worth this bipartisan commission.

Joining us now, CNN congressional correspondent Lauren Fox. So McConnell is a no on this, and the big overarching question is does this mean that this bipartisan agreement is toast in the Senate? You know, who are the no-votes here?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it has been an evolution on Capitol Hill, and I want to just remind voters at home that earlier in the week, it sounded like some Republicans might support this.

[06:05:02]

Now you have a number of Republicans who have come out against it. McConnell, of course, very important here.

Roy Blunt, another Republican in leadership, who is opposed to moving ahead with this, arguing that there's already plenty of investigations under way, including one in the Rules Committee, another one in the Homeland Committee, and they're arguing that is enough.

So here you have multiple Republicans. I think Mike Rounds is very notable here. And that's because a couple of days ago, he sounded very open to this commission. Then we heard he had coffee along with other -- other Republican senators, with Kevin McCarthy, just the other day and afterward that meeting said he had concerns and was leaning against the bill. So a significant evolution up here on Capitol Hill with Republicans.

BERMAN: Yes. On that screen, Mike Rounds is the important one, because he seemed like he might be a yes just a couple days ago. Now he seems like a definite no.

How about the maybes here? I mean, what senators have said that they might be willing to support this?

FOX: I think there are a lot of Republicans who are keeping the door open. Of course, keep your eye on those Republicans who voted to convict former President Trump in the impeachment trial a couple of months ago. I'm thinking about Senator Lisa Murkowski, Senator Mitt Romney is another one of those. And, interestingly, Senator Lindsey Graham is still keeping the door open on this.

Now, he is someone who is aligned with former President Trump. He is someone who talks often to the minority leader. So I think that this is someone who really should be seen as a bellwether.

But, again, only seven Republican senators voted to convict Trump. You need three more in addition to that. And right now, I'm not quite seeing how that math is going to shake out.

BERMAN: No. There are only six faces on that screen there. There would need to be ten to get this passed. Now, there is a much longer list of senators who've expressed concerns. And honestly, who you think you can reasonably guess that there are -- most of them are probably nos.

FOX: Well, that's exactly right. Expect this list to grow. I mean, we should be clear. On Capitol Hill, we've been asking as many members as we possibly can, but we haven't asked everyone. And I think this is the list that you're going to see growing in several days.

Now, interestingly, Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from the state of Maine, is on this list. She says she's open to a commission, but she has concerns specifically about how the House bill is structured.

And I think that a lot of these members are arguing they had concern. Can they be negotiate it? I think that's another big question, John.

BERMAN: All right. So Mike Pence's brother is now in congress from the state of Indiana. You will remember, Mike Pence, 100 feet away when he was vice president, from people who may have very well have wanted to cause him harm. There were people chanting "Hang Mike Pence" as part of this insurrection.

But now what is Mike Pence's brother, Congressman Pence, saying about this?

FOX: Well, Rep. Greg Pence voted against creating this commission yesterday, obviously significant. But, remember, his district is a district that is very closely aligned with former President Trump. It's -- Trump is very popular there. A lot of these members are making a decision, because they feel like they have no other choice when it comes to making sure that they can win re-election in 2022.

And remember, Pence was another congressman who had concerns about the election, who voted back -- or at least tried to move forward with overturning the results of that election. So this is not really a big surprise, despite the fact that his brother was the vice president and was clearly in harm's way on January 6.

BERMAN: I can imagine that Thanksgiving dinner. Sorry, brother, about them wanting to hang you and everything, but I couldn't muster a vote vote on that.

Laura Fox, thank you very much -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Awkward is an understatement.

I want to bring in Ambassador Tim Roemer. He was a Democratic congressman, and he was also a member of the 9/11 Commission and a former ambassador to India.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

TIM ROEMER (D), FORMER INDIANA CONGRESSMAN: Brianna, my pleasure. I was on Don Lemon last night at 11:30, so excuse me if I don't make a lot of sense at 6 a.m.

KEILAR: That's OK. We don't sleep much on this show, so you're right where you belong. When you look at what's going on with this commission, you know, why do you think that the January 6 events necessitate a commission, in your view?

ROEMER: January 6 was one of the darkest days in our history, Brianna. Our Capitol Police, our police officers, were assaulted, sprayed with bear mace. They were hit in the face with knuckle -- knuckle sandwiches. It was a brutal day. Our Constitution was torn up.

We had a fair and free election. The people were having their voices counted in the electoral vote count. And a mob, domestic terrorists, assaulted our sacred grounds on the Capitol.

The police, the Constitution, the Capitol, our vice president was chased down hallways and threatened. Our speaker of the House was threatened with her lives [SIC]. Custodians and staff members on Capitol Hill ran for their lives.

And now China, when they open negotiations with the United States, just recently in Alaska, they claim that the United States is so divided politically they are not a world power anymore.

[06:10:17]

Yesterday I think, Brianna, was a good day, if January 6 was a bad day. Thirty-five Republicans broke ranks with their leadership to vote for a bipartisan bill to establish this independent investigation of January 6.

We have some rays of hope in the Senate, despite your reporting there. I think there are a list of ten or 12 senators that we could possibly get to vote for this. People like Senator Collins want to make some minor adjustments. There are a few more like that. You build momentum.

I'm a mid-American optimist. I'm a realist. I think we can get this done at the end of the day.

KEILAR: I certainly appreciate your optimism. I am a little concerned looking at the Senate if those numbers are there. I think it's very much an open question, and it's trending in the wrong direction.

But let's talk about, you know, you mentioned that there were a number of Republicans who voted for this, but the vast majority in the House didn't. And the reasons they're giving include, you know, this is redundant or, perhaps more importantly, that this doesn't rise to the level. This doesn't rise to the level of a commission the way 9/11 did. What do you say to that?

ROEMER: Well, first of all, I would disagree with you. Anybody in sports would say a vote of 252-175 is a pretty resounding vote in the House of Representatives, especially these days with the hyperpartisanship and the dysfunction we have up there.

Thirty-five Republicans voted for it. There was a universe of between 15 and 50, 55. We reached right at the top level of the art of the possible there.

And I would say on the Senate side, if you can get a core group -- Senator Portman who's retiring, Senator Burr who's retiring, Senator Toomey who is retiring, Senator Collins, who has said that she's open to negotiation. There are several more senators there that might be able to be convinced that we have to do something about January 6.

We can't have lies being told, we didn't have the fair and free election in this country. That is a house divided that cannot stand against itself, as Abraham Lincoln said. We have to have Republicans coming together, just as they did on 9/11.

A lot of people think -- they don't remember too freshly about what happened back on 9/11, Brianna. That took a lot of cajoling and persuading for Senator McCain and I to pass that bill to create the 9/11 Commission. The Bush White House was initially opposed to it. We had to peel off Republicans in the House and in the Senate to get that created. That's the battle we have this time.

I think it's doable and achievable. I think anything is possible in America, despite how difficult our politics are. This could be a sign that Democrats and Republicans can work with each other on one of the darkest, most dismal days in our history.

We have to get this right. We can't have elections in 2022 and 2024 that people dispute as not being fair and free and truthful when we just had one of the most fair and free and secure elections in our history.

If you're for the police, if you're for justice and truth, if you're for right over wrong, you're for a January 6 Commission.

KEILAR: The vote is very different. I will just say that. When it comes to OK-ing the 9/11 Commission, almost everybody voted for that. This, we're seeing more division.

I do want to ask you about the cover of the "Daily News" this morning. The headline here, it says "Trump's Li'l Mitch," and it calls him a lap dog.

In seriousness, though, Mitch McConnell is someone who we heard him in his own words on the Senate floor, post-January 6, holding former President Trump to account. Now he's refusing to support this commission. What's your reaction to that?

ROEMER: Well, I was moved by Senator McConnell move -- words and his eloquent statement on the Senate floor after January 6. He -- he was devastated by that. He was calling all Republicans that may have had anything do with that as a shameful day in our history.

I'm disappointed if he stays on his statement of the other day that he's opposed to it. I'm hopeful still. I'm hanging on hope, Brianna, that he may change his mind.

Remember, his wife, Secretary Chao, resigned from the Trump cabinet due to President Trump's response to January 6.

[06:15:06]

So hopefully, the two of them are talking about what this means to all Americans. This is not a Republican/Democratic issue. This is really an American issue about how we protect the integrity of our elections; how we clean up the disinformation that's out there in our political universe today, with lies and untruths; and how we protect our police officers, our Constitution, and our sacred ground of the Capitol.

Those are things that most Americans across the country -- I know in my home state of Indiana, we agree on those kinds of things. I'm hopeful Senator Braun and Senator Young from the Hoosier State will be open to creating this commission.

KEILAR: These are going to be key days ahead. Ambassador Roemer, we'll be watching them along with you. Thanks.

ROEMER: Brianna, thank you. Please give a hockey check -- a hockey term check to John Berman. Tell him the Caps will beat the Bruins in seven.

BERMAN: No, no! No! We're up two in the series, you know, the second overtime victory last night. We are cruising.

ROEMER: We're just -- we're just letting you -- just easing you into the big game on Friday, John. Get ready.

BERMAN: This is ridiculous.

KEILAR: This is why you guys were up late last night. Let's be clear.

BERMAN: That's why I can't see straight this morning. You can't have double overtime on a weeknight. Let's just stipulate that.

ROEMER: We're going to get you, John. Get ready. I'll bet you five bucks.

BERMAN: I can't do that on TV.

ROEMER: And a Dunkin' Donuts.

BERMAN: All right. Cool. Now you're talking -- you're talking my language here. That's wicked awesome. Thank you.

KEILAR: Sir, great to see you. Thank you so much.

ROEMER: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Thank you, Ambassador.

There's some new reporting on the now criminal investigation into the Trump Organization, including on the man in charge of the money.

BERMAN: Plus, Dr. Anthony Fauci says he thinks Americans will need almost definitely need a booster shot to fight COVID next year.

And disturbing new video of rioters attacking Capitol officers. It's sparking a nationwide manhunt. This is NEW DAY.

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BERMAN: New this morning, sources tell CNN that New York's attorney general has been opened a criminal tax investigation into Allen Weisselberg, the chief financial officer of the Trump Organization, who has handled the company's finances for 40 years. Prosecutors are trying to pressure Weisselberg to flip and cooperate with them in the probe into the Trump Organization.

Joining us now, CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig.

Elie, talk to me about Allen Weisselberg here, what they're seeing and what they want out of him.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: John, if they can flip Allen Weisselberg -- and they certainly are trying with this investigation -- and it's a big if, but if they can, it's going to be a game- changer. He's been on the inside for decades now. This is a financial case. He can walk them through what they need to know.

BERMAN: What is his role? Place Weisselberg in the Trump Organization.

HONIG: Yes. So the Trump Organization tries to put out an image that they're this massive, multinational conglomerate. But in fact, they control a bunch of corporate shells and other corporate entities, and really, when it gets down to it, it's a small family-run business. We know the people who run it. Donald Trump, of course, is the owner. Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump, his two sons, are executive vice presidents. Ivanka Trump was an executive vice president before she left to go work in the White House in 2017.

And then you have Allen Weisselberg. He has been chief financial officer, handling all the finances for the Trump Organization since the 1970s.

Now, here's what prosecutors are potentially looking at. First of all, did the Trump Organization intentionally, falsely inflate or deflate the value of some of their properties, including these four on this screen? Would they inflate the value when it came time to apply for a bank loan? The more money you have, the more money you can borrow. Would they deflate the value when it came time to pay taxes?

They're also looking at potential tax issues relating to Ivanka Trump. Reportedly, she received a $747,000 "consulting" -- I use quotes.

BERMAN: That's interesting. We list her as executive vice president, but also a consultant.

HONIG: Yes.

BERMAN: That's a problem.

HONIG: Yes.

BERMAN: You know, it's hard to be both at the same time.

HONIG: Exactly. And the theory is they paid her this huge amount of money to put money in her pock and to avoid taxes.

And then the way they're trying to flip Weisselberg is with a tax case, arguing that he got a chunk of his income as tuition to pay for his family's schooling.

BERMAN: This is basic tax stuff here that you're looking at with Weisselberg right now. Whether or not -- things, you know, paying for tuition, cars. That's part of your income, in theory. If you're not paying taxes on that, you could be in trouble.

HONIG: Exactly. It's Tax Evasion 101.

BERMAN: All right. As a prosecutor here, talk about who they are and what the different cases are.

HONIG: Yes. So Cy Vance has been the district attorney here in Manhattan since 2011. He's coming up on the end of his term, however. His term runs out at the end of this year.

He opened an investigation back in 2018. It was originally focused on those hush-money payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, but it has since expanded significantly.

We learned this week that the New York state attorney general, Letitia James, she had only been investigating on the civil side. Now she has expanded her probe and is joining forces to some extent with Cy Vance over at the D.A.'s office.

We don't know exactly what they have, but we do know some important things about the evidence. Michael Cohen we know is talking to them, because he keeps telling us. Every time he goes in and speaks to them, he makes an announcement, I went and spoke with the A.G. or the D.A.

He was part of the Trump Organization, of course, before this all went down.

The A.G. deposed Eric Trump. We don't know exactly what about, but they took his deposition under oath.

We know that Cy Vance, the D.A., fought for those tax returns, twice in the Supreme Court. They have the tax returns now, plus thousands and thousands of other documents.

And we know the district attorney subpoenaed Deutsche Bank, which has been the lender of choice for the Trump Org for a long time now.

BERMAN: Timeline here?

HONIG: Yes. So first of all, let's keep in mind: Cy Vance is out at the end of the year. I think he can and should and will -- he has to decide this before he goes. You can't leave this decision for a newcomer.

[06:25:08]

And the statute of limitations. That means you have five years, generally speaking, from when a crime is committed until you charge case. We're coming up against that. Most of this focus is on conduct was before Donald Trump's presidency, 2016. It's 2021. They've got to move.

BERMAN: I have to ask about Weisselberg here. If they are investigating for the things that we think they are, this kind of tax stuff, do you think that will be enough to get him to flip?

HONIG: It's a great question, John. It's all about leverage.

I used to have the luxury, when I was doing mob cases, of flipping guys with murder charges. They're looking at life. Tax charges in New York are not -- they're certainly not looking at life or anything near it.

That's what Weisselberg is calculating right now. Do I have the ability to take a risk that they're going to charge me, or am I going to flip and come onboard?

BERMAN: Elie Honig, thank you very much.

HONIG: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: Coming up, the new timeline about when you may need to get a coronavirus booster shot.

KEILAR: Plus, navigating the CDC's new mask guidance. We're going to talk with two small business owners about how they're doing it and whether they'll still require masks in their stores.

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