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New Day

Strong Optimism in Policing Bill as U.S Marks Floyd Anniversary; The Arc and Politicization of the Wuhan Lab Theory. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired May 25, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:02]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: The heat is on in the Eastern U.S. well ahead of the first day of summer and it feels like it hasn't rained since the Reagan administration.

Let's get to Meteorologist Chad Myers. Chad, what does it look like?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Almost 90 for you tomorrow, John. The hot air is in Chicago this morning and it's moving to the east. Look at that, already over 70, Chicago and St. Louis at this hour.

This weather is brought to you by Carvana, the new way to buy a car.

So, yes, the heat is in the central part of the country and it is moving to the east. There will be severe weather in the western part of the plains. Look at that, 90 degrees in Cincinnati today. And that hot air is traveling to the east.

In between where the hot and cool, that's where the storms will be, had 15 tornadoes reported yesterday. There may be some more today, certainly the potential for hail throughout the afternoon out here in the Midwest.

The big story though, temperatures around 90 in the east for tomorrow and into Thursday. And then by the weekend, here comes the cold air and a beautiful weekend in store for all of you up there.

New Day continues right now.

BERMAN: I'm John Berman alongside Brianna Keilar on this New Day.

As a wounded nation marks one year since the murder of George Floyd, his family joins us live on what they will tell President Biden face- to-face today.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: And it will soon be easier to wave a gun around in Texas than it will be to vote. The new law that comes as America sees 13 mass shootings in the past few days alone.

BERMAN: Plus, when it comes to incentives to get vaccinated we have seen everything from cold hard cash to cold craft beer, but one airline is upping the ante.

KEILAR: After a regime forces a passenger jet down and then essentially kidnaps an activist off of it, disturbing new signs of just how brazen autocrats are getting without consequence.

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, it's Tuesday, May 25th. On the anniversary of George Floyd's death, there's new hope for police reform legislation named in his memory. Two lead Senate negotiators expressing optimism about a bipartisan deal though Congress is unlikely to meet President Biden's deadline of today for getting that bill passed.

KEILAR: George Floyd's death one year ago sparked protests nationwide calling for police reforms and an end to systemic racism. President Biden and Vice President Harris will meet privately today with members of Floyd's family. George Floyd's brother will be joining us here in just a moment.

BERMAN: So let's go first to CNN's Jessica Dean for the latest on the policing bill. And after things hadn't seem to be going great for a few days, all of a sudden, Jessica, negotiators on both sides saying we might be getting close.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, there was a sharp turn of optimism, John. This is a bipartisan, bicameral group. You mentioned it. It's Senator Cory Booker, Senator Tim Scott and Representative Karen Bass. They have been meeting in person for weeks.

And when I talked to Senator Scott and Senator Booker yesterday, they both came out and said, look, we think not only have we made progress but Senator Tim Scott told us he said that he's starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel, that they're starting to see the framework for what could be a bipartisan bill that can get the 60 votes needed to get through the Senate and then get to the House and get to President Biden's desk.

We know that President Biden had asked for a bill to be signed today. They're obviously not going to make that deadline. And they made clear they don't anticipate getting a deal done this week. But we also know they told us that they've been working through the weekends, they've been working nights.

And what is interesting about this group, John, is it's the personal relationships between Bass, Booker and Scott. They all have a tremendous amount of respect for one another and they have a tremendous amount of respect from their colleagues. They also have the backing of their respective leadership. So the thinking here is, if they can come together on a deal that their leadership, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, Chuck Schumer, is going to back whatever deal that is.

So there's a lot of optimism here and, frankly, I have spoken with people on both sides of the aisle, Republicans and Democrats, they've all said to me in various forms, it's kind of an achievement in and of it that they're still at the negotiating table, that they're still trying to hash this out. The key sticking points right now are still qualified immunity and also section 242, which is essentially part of the federal law that's responsible for setting the standard for criminally prosecuting police officers.

[07:05:11]

So they are still sorting through that. Senator Scott floated a compromise on qualified immunity. Btu we also know, John, they have come to some tentative agreements on some key things, like chokeholds and no-knock warrants.

So they are making progress. Sometimes you hear progress up here, and there's not really progress happening. In this case, it appears to be the case that they are actually moving incrementally closer to getting a deal done. We'll see if they can get it through the finish line. But what I hear over and over again from all three of these negotiators and the people who are working with them is they want the right bill and not a rushed bill.

So we know they'll be meeting with George Floyd's family separately today as they continue to meet with each other, Karen Bass, staying in town this week while the House is on a workweek to continue these conversations. John?

BERMAN: It would be very interesting, Jessica, to hear what they have to say today after saying they see light at the end of the tunnel yesterday. Thank you so much for that reporting. Brianna?

KEILAR: Joining us now for an exclusive ahead of today's meeting with President Biden and the vice president is Philonise Floyd, the brother of George Floyd, and Benjamin Crump, the attorney for the Floyd family. I want to welcome you both. Thank you so much for talking to us on what is such a monumental day.

And, Philonise, just for you, it has been a year since your brother's murder. Tell us what's on your heart and what's on your mind today.

PHILONISE FLOYD, BROTHER OF GEORGE FLOYD: I think about all the activists and the people who stepped out and put their lives on the line during this pandemic. My brother, he was an asset to our family and we loved him so much. He went to Minnesota to become a truck driver just to be able to do something to be meaningful for his kids, his daughter, Gianna. And it's been one year and she had to watch the same thing everybody across the world has to watch, him being murdered on a video.

And people just speak out, Germany, Europe, Ghana, everybody watched this case tremendously all over the world. They watched it closely. And I think of my brother all the time and my sister called me at 12:00 last night. She said, this is the day that our brother has left the earth, just devastating.

KEILAR: Your family has been devastated. The personal price that you have paid is immeasurable. Do you think when you look at the state of affairs how around the world but also Americans, how they understand the problem that African-Americans are facing, do you think things have changed in the last year, Philonise?

FLOYD: I think things have changed. I think that it's moving slowly, but it's making progress. I just want everything to be better in life because I don't want to see people dying the same way my brother has passed. We were at his court, at his trial, and Daunte Wright passed ten miles away from where my brother, where we was trying to get accountability. And I'm like, hey, we can't have this.

People shouldn't die with no justification. He was just killed, innocent, young guy. I watched his mom and had to try to console her. She couldn't speak for days. All she could do was cry. And he didn't come from a broken home. It was just sad, a sad situation. And this is all over America.

KEILAR: Americans and people around the world, they've heard your pain. I think they've sort of felt some of your pain is their own as they're looking for change. And you heard, Ben, from our reporter, Jessica Dean, saying what is happening in Congress, there are promising steps they're moving forward with police reform.

You all are visiting not just the president today, you're visiting members of Congress, including Tim Scott and Cory Booker. What is your message for them to get this over the finish line?

BENJAMIN CRUMP, ATTORNEY FOR GEORGE FLOYD'S FAMILY: Our message is let's don't squander this moment. Let's don't lose this opportunity, Brianna. It has been 57 years since we've had meaningful police reform on the federal level in America. And we want to make sure that we do something that we just don't talk the talk. America is finally having this conversation about racial reckoning, but that's just talk if we don't act.

[07:10:01]

Now is the time to act. Let's do it in the name of George Floyd and all the others that have been taken from us unjustly by the very people who are supposed to protect and serve us.

KEILAR: I hear when you're talking, Philonise, about Daunte Wright. There's a feeling I get from you about let's not let George Floyd's death be in vain. And a feeling that even as you were looking and getting justice, you see that it's not happening for other people as we hear about all these other cases. How essential is it that Congress passes police reform?

FLOYD: This will be one of the best things that you can pass across America. People shouldn't have to live in fear. African-American people, just period, people of color, they are dying at a rate that we shouldn't have in this world. When you see a police officer, you see somebody that you respect, somebody that's out there serving America. And they're supposed to make sure that you are okay.

But when an officer takes someone else's life, to me, is not a mistake because a mistake can be erased. You can't get that person's life back. And that family will have to go through what we went through for an entire year and you have other families who went through the same thing before us. But they didn't get their -- yes, they didn't get any convictions. They did not get any air time, most of them. And they're all going through the same pain that we're going through.

KEILAR: Ben, what are you going to say to the president?

CRUMP: Well, the hope is that he would reiterate what he said at the state of the union that we must get the George Floyd Justice in Policing Accountability Act passed the United States Senate, give me a bill to sign. And I like where Senator Chuck Schumer and Karen Bass and Cory Booker are all saying that if you're going to have this legislation bill in George Floyd's name, it has to be meaningful because their blood is on this legislation.

KEILAR: That is a message indeed. Ben Crump, Philonise, thank you so much for being with us. And we're thinking of you. I know, I can tell, Philonise, you're feeling so many, of course, different emotions today. You've paid such a price. And we really thank you for being with us today.

CRUMP: Thank you, Brianna.

FLOYD: Thank you.

KEILAR: John?

BERMAN: Joining me now is CNN Political Commentator Errol Louis, he's a Political Anchor for Spectrum News, and National Political Reporter Alexi McCammond.

So, we heard Benjamin Crump say, don't miss this opportunity to get policing reform legislation passed. We heard Tim Scott yesterday saying he sees a light at the end of the tunnel. Cory Booker -- there's a shift in the tone of how they're talking about the possibility of success, Alexi. How hopeful are you? How skeptical might you be that a deal is imminent?

ALEXI, MCCAMMOND, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: Well, weeks ago, there was reporting in Axios that various lawmakers were saying the verdict in the Derek Chauvin trial kind of give them not an out but didn't bring them to the same sense of urgency to get something done on police reform as the same as if they are mistrial or otherwise, because there would be activists and protesters on the streets. But now we see these folks saying they're feeling more optimistic and moving toward the same kind of goal but we know the House and the Senate and Democrats and Republicans remain far apart on different issues.

And there was a poll out just last week from Fox and Data for Progress that found 34 percent of Republican voters care about Congress dealing with police reform compared to 77 percent of Democrats.

BERMAN: Even if Tim Scott struck a deal, you're not sure the Republicans will get ten votes in the Senate?

MCCAMOND: He's one Republican senator, and, of course, the only black Republican senator. But we have seen how Republicans haven't taken issues of race and racial justice as seriously as their Democratic counterparts over the last four, five, six years especially.

BERMAN: Errol there is a trend, a disturbing trend in the United States where violent crime is going up. And in cities across the country, there have been cuts to police budgets over the last year. This is following the murder of George Floyd. A lot of cities dialed back their policing. I mean, some of these cities -- many of these cities, you are seeing a rise in violent crime. What kind of pressure does that put on these cities going forward? Are they going to have to start putting money back in to the police force?

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, there's a lot of pressure to get it right. I mean, let's be clear. It's not so much about defunding the police in a lot of cases. If you actually unpack it, defunding is a nice political slogan but it's really about repurposing the police so you're not sending a squad of armed officers to deal with a $20 counterfeit bill or if you've got some bootlegging cigarettes out of a park, you don't send a bunch of people there. That's how we have seen some of these tragedies emerge.

So the idea is supposed to be not simply to drain the money out of the budget but to say, look, you need to do real policing. When we need to put hands on somebody because there's real violence, an armed bank robbery, a terrorist threat or something like that, save your resources for that and let's take some of the resources that you're using to chase after misdemeanor issues and give it to social workers, give it to youth workers, give it to other kinds of programs where we can get at some of the root causes of it.

[07:15:15]

That's the intelligent conversation that we would all like to see happen.

Unfortunately, in the crucible of politics, what people are saying is, if there's a blip in crime, it's because we didn't have armed officers chasing down $20 counterfeit bills, let's pour more money into it, let's pour more officers into it, let's throw more force at it and see what happens. And I think we know what lies at the end of that road.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about infrastructure, which may be on the different end of the poll from police reform right now. Because if they're saying there's a light at the end of the tunnel on police reform, it seems on infrastructure that they're running into a brick wall.

LOUIS: Oh, yes, there was never going to be a deal on the infrastructure. I mean, come on.

BERMAN: So why are they talking? Why are they bothering? Why is the White House bothering to talk if there's never going to be a deal?

LOUIS: Well, part of what Joe Biden ran on was a promise to establish some kind of a dialogue, some kind of a productive dialogue. It's something that happened during the Obama/Biden administration. They always kept talking even when it was clear that nothing was going to come of it. So I think they're going to go through those motions. On the other hand, on the legislative side, Chuck Schumer is crystal clear on where he does and does not have votes and possibilities. And I think they're going to be working very hard to figure out what they're going to bring to the parliamentarian to pass this with a straight line party vote.

BERMAN: There was never going to be a deal, declares Errol Louis.

MCCAMOND: That's exactly right. I mean, there was never going to be a deal. And I think we see, to your point, President Biden really going through the motions and having these good-faith meetings with Republicans who go out and criticize him as a radical socialist after and their fundraising text messages, but there's not going to be a deal.

And Democrats are ready to go it alone. Senator Bernie Sanders is already working behind scenes on a budget resolution to get this passed without Republicans. They see folks, like Senator Joe Manchin, even potentially being a thorn in their side. They're ready to get this done because they want to deliver and be able to tell voters that they got this done with or without Republicans.

BERMAN: This is performance art, is what you're telling me?

MCCAMMOND: Well, I think it's the way Washington works.

BERMAN: It's like mime, except worse or less entertaining, which is hard.

I want Marjorie Taylor Greene, her comments are despicable and false and everything you say bad about them clearly true. Why won't Kevin McCarthy speak up?

LOUIS: Kevin McCarthy wants that speaker's gavel more than he wants to be known as somebody who is sensible or principled or ethical, right? I mean, this is all he wants. He's counting down the months to midterm elections. He knows that there is a substantial part of the Republican base that is in line with the whackiness, the kookinees, the extremism of the Marjorie Taylor Greenes of their conference.

And they do not want to annoy or risk demobilizing that faction of the party. It's that simple. It's that ugly. It's that unfortunate. Kevin McCarthy could take an entirely different direction. He could completely separate himself from and ostracize those elements of the party. He has shown a remarkable and unfortunate unwillingness to take any kind of a stand when it comes to this stuff. He wants a majority. He wants that speaker's gavel and figures he'll fix it on the backside. But, of course, the country will be that much more diminished and that's not necessarily --

BERMAN: It's like a holocaust gamesmanship though, Alexi. And I can't belief even commenting on this, McCarthy, thinks would hurt him.

MCCAMMOND: Well, because the crazy doesn't stop here, right? If he condemns this, he'll have condemn something else and something else and something else. And to your point, he knows he's leading the party of Donald Trump even though Donald Trump is not in the Oval Office. And so he has to keep these folks happy whether or not it's the thing that makes sense or what is right.

But we've seen how Republicans kind of got in line with Trump. Now in his absence, they're still maintaining that kind of political style.

BERMAN: Such an unbelievably low bar. And --

MCCAMMOND: To say the least. We can stop talking about it forever, you know?

BERMAN: Alexi, Errol, thank you both for being with us this morning.

As new evidence deepens the mystery into the origins of the coronavirus, our next guest, a scientist says the lab-leaked theory is entirely possible.

KEILAR: Plus, brand new developments in the drama that started 30,000 feet above the ground, why the hijacking of a commercial jet and the arrest of an activist shows autocrats are feeling more emboldened.

BERMAN: And what United Airlines is offering to passengers who are vaccinated, more than peanuts and pretzels, let me tell you.

This is New Day.

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[07:20:00]

KEILAR: Dr. Anthony Fauci now says he's not sure exactly how coronavirus came to infect humans and left open the possibility that the virus could have come from a lab.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you still confident that it developed naturally?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: No, I'm not convinced about that. I think that we should continue to investigate what went on in China until we find out to the best of our ability exactly what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: To be clear, Dr. Fauci never said that COVID-19 did not come from a lab. What he said was there was no scientific evidence supporting that it did.

And later in that very same interview, Fauci said investigators still say the spread was likely naturally, meaning, zoonotic, starting from an animal that transmitted it to humans, which has long been the explanation that was more broadly considered as likely, that it began in Wuhan seafood market where there were also a number of animals. So how did we get here, with America's most prominent public health expert saying that the lab leak theory, which was previously hawked by conspiracy theorists, might actually be credible?

The lab leak theory that the coronavirus pandemic originated in some fashion in a laboratory in Wuhan has been circulating in the United States almost as long as the virus. One of the first elected officials to promote this theory was Senator Tom Cotton, who said this back in February of 2020.

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SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): We don't have evidence that this disease originated there, but because of China's duplicity and dishonesty from the beginning, we need to at least ask the question to see what the evidence says.

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[07:25:07]

KEILAR: Now, Cotton clarified he didn't think that China intentionally released the virus, but this lab leak theory became a popular hypothesis in conservative circles around that time. In April of last year, a Washington Post columnist highlighted State Department cables warning of safety issues at the lab in Wuhan.

CNN and other news organizations also reported that U.S. intelligence and national security officials were investigating whether coronavirus may have spread from a Chinese laboratory rather than the market in Wuhan. Former President Trump said this when asked about it.

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DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We're looking at it. A lot of people are looking at it. It seems to make sense.

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KEILAR: In that same news conference, Dr. Fauci was less than enthusiastic act the theory though.

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FAUCI: The mutations it took to get to the point where it is now is totally consistent with a jump of a species from an animal to a human.

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KEILAR: Now, that was April of last year. New coronavirus cases were quickly increasing, lockdowns were in place in key states and many Republicans were trying to turn blame for the worsening situation from Trump's policies to China. The National Republican Senatorial Committee even reportedly sent candidates a memo that told them this, quote, don't defend Trump, other than the China travel ban, attack China. And two weeks later, this was Trump. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Have you seen anything at this point that gives you a high degree of confidence that the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the origin of this virus?

TRUMP: Yes, I have. Yes, I have.

There's a lot of theories but, yes, we have people looking at it very, very strongly. Scientific people, intelligence people and others, and we'll put it all together and I think we're going to have a very good answer eventually.

REPORTER: And what gives you --

TRUMP: And China might even tell us. China might tell us.

REPORTER: And what gives you a high degree of confidence that this originated from the Wuhan Institute of Virology?

T RUMP: I can't tell you that. I'm not allowed to tell you that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That same day, The New York Times reported that senior Trump administration officials, including Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, had pushed spies to find evidence linking COVID to the Wuhan lab, and that Trump wanted to, quote, set the stage for holding China responsible.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you seen anything that gives you high confidence that it originated in that Wuhan lab?

MIKE POMPEO, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Martha, there's enormous evidence that that's where this began.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Pompeo never, though, shared that evidence. At the time Dr. Fauci insisted the evidence showed the virus almost certainly evolved naturally and it was a circular argument to suggest otherwise.

The lab leak theory remained a fringe idea until as recently March of this year, when former CDC Director Robert Redfield told our Sanjay Gupta this.

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DR. ROBERT REDFIELD, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: I am of the point of view that I still think the most likely etiology of this pathogen in Wuhan was from a laboratory, escaped.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: Just a few days later, the World Health Organization released its report on the investigation into the origins of COVID. And the report concluded that the lab leak theory was, quote, extremely unlikely but the scientists had restricted access to Chinese labs.

New information is still coming to light. In fact, just this week, The Wall Street Journal reported that three researchers from Wuhan's virology lab were not only sickened in November of 2019, they went to the hospital with COVID-like symptoms weeks earlier than China's first official COVID case. Wuhan's lab director told the Global Times the claims in The Wall Street Journal story are a, quote, complete lie.

Complicating all of this, China has not been forthcoming about the origins of COVID from the very start. And for Trump, the question of the lab theory was less about finding the truth and more about finding a scapegoat as he made racist comments deflecting from his own poor political performance and coincided with higher rates of hate crimes against Asian-Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's got all different names, Wuhan. Wuhan was catching on. Coronavirus, right? Kung Flu, yes. Kung Flu. COVID, COVID-19.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So our next guest has been is making the case for more than a year that it is a real possibility that the virus leaked from a lab. Joining us, Vaccine Scientist and Professor at Flinders University in Australia, Nikolai Petrovsky. Professor, thank you so much for being with us.

As we've said, you've been consistent that this is something that should be investigated, that it is a possibility.

[07:30:02]

So what's not being done that you think needs to be done?

NIKOLAI PETROVSKY, CORONAVIRUS VACCINE DEVELOPER: Well, we need a proper.