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Australian Scientist Says Coronavirus May Have Originated In Lab; Georgia Lt. Gov. Geoff Duncan (R) Discusses Georgia And Arizona Taking Up Bogus Audits Of Election Results; United Airlines Offers Vaccinated Passengers Shot At Free Flights For A Year. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired May 25, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So what's not being done that you think needs to be done?

NIKOLAI PETROVSKY, SCIENTIST WHO FIRST RAISED LAB THEORY ON COVID'S ORIGINS, CORONAVIRUS VACCINE DEVELOPER: Well, we need a proper investigation. I mean, we're 18 months into this pandemic and no one can show where this virus came from. Obviously, there are multiple theories and I'm pleased to say that the idea it might have come from a lab is no longer considered a conspiracy theory, but it is a serious scientific question.

But to answer that question we need access to the appropriate records of what was happening in China at the beginning of this and clearly, the Chinese have indicated that they're not prepared to share those records. So it's going to be very hard to get to the bottom of it without some sort of investigation conducted internationally.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Why do you think it is has been this evolution from oh, this seems to be a conspiracy theory to this really could be credible? Why was the scientific comment reticent to go there?

PETROVSKY: Well, I think this is the problem of when science gets mixed with politics. And I've been saying consistently for more than a year now let's separate out the politics and as a group of scientists, let's look at this as a serious scientific question. And when you do that -- I mean, in science, you just have to look at all of the possible alternatives and then rule them in or out based on the evidence, and that clearly wasn't being done.

And I think scientists became politicians and took sides in this debate, and that should never have happened. And I'm pleased to see scientists returning to their senses and actually starting to look at this as a serious scientific question and leaving the politics out of the question.

BERMAN: What piece of data or data set could answer the question?

PETROVSKY: Look, I don't think there's any one smoking gun in this situation. I mean, that would require, effectively, a confession. If someone was handling this in a laboratory, it's going to be very hard to prove that without someone coming forward and telling us what's happened.

On the other side, of course, the longer we go and despite all the massive searches for an animal source of this virus and the fact that we -- no one has come up with such a source, obviously, increasingly, that means the weight of the doubt must be that this did actually come from a laboratory.

So I think we're going to be dealing with a lot of circumstantial evidence, both scientific. And obviously, our research showed that this virus had very unusual features for a pandemic virus. It was perfectly adapted to infect humans from the very first case and that's quite unusual. There are obviously some very unusual features in the virus that we don't see in other closely related coronaviruses.

And so there are a number of worrying features in the virus that suggest it came from a lab. I think all we can do is continue to look for circumstantial evidence that might point in one direction or the other. I'm not sure that we'll ever have someone fess up and tell us what really happened.

KEILAR: That seemed to be Redfield's point -- was as far as he could tell, he thought there seemed to be some missing links in the evolution of this virus -- where did that happen? And look, China has to answer some questions so that we can know definitively the answer to that.

The Biden administration, so far, has deferred to the WHO on the virus' origins. Do you think that it should take a stronger role in getting to the bottom of this?

PETROVSKY: Look, yes. I think that certainly, the WHO have shifted their position enormously from that first interim report -- which, to be honest, I don't think anyone took seriously.

It was vetted by the Chinese, it was written by the Chinese. Although it was put out under the name of the WHO, I don't think anyone seriously thinks that it actually was the opinion of the WHO that a lab leak was extremely unlikely. And I think the WHO have retreated from that position.

I think the U.S. really needs to stay firmly engaged with the WHO and encourage the WHO, obviously, not to be partisan as they were during the first investigation, but to really do an honest and independent investigation as they go forward.

KEILAR: Yes, it's essential. We need to know for the future, right? No one wants to go through what we have gone through here in the last year and change.

[07:35:03]

Dr. Petrovsky, thank you for being with us.

PETROVSKY: It's a real pleasure.

KEILAR: The big lie tour heads to a new city and state. Georgia's Republican lieutenant governor will join us on that, next.

BERMAN: Plus, new details inside one of the largest border shelters holding migrant children. Witnesses describe it as a warehouse. Why the situation could get even worse.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Yet another ballot review moving forward in Georgia. This time, it's being led by this guy, Garland Favorito, co-founder of a group called Voters Organized for Trusted Election Results in Georgia.

Now, according to "The Washington Post," in 2002, he published a book questioning the origin of the attacks of September 11th, 2001. He has also trafficked in unproven theories about the Kennedy assassination. And in 2014, he appeared in a video promoting the idea that the 14th Amendment was, itself, unconstitutional and argued that the federal government was therefore illegitimate and should be overthrown.

[07:40:00]

Joining me now, the Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan.

Lieutenant Governor, does that instill confidence in you that that's the guy in charge of the group leading this audit?

LT. GOV. GEOFF DUNCAN (R), GEORGIA: You know, it still amazes me that any Republican thinks that doubling down on this election fraud debacle is a winning strategy. The only way we're going to change the fact that Joe Biden is the President of the United States is putting a winning Republican campaign together in 2024. That's just the cold, hard facts.

BERMAN: But you see it's not just happening in Fulton County. It's happening in state after state where you're seeing people calling for these independent audits.

What does that do to faith in the system?

DUNCAN: Well, I feel like those are the outside extremes. That's the outside five percent that's continuing to double down on this.

Look, I think more and more Republicans are waking up every day, whether they like Donald Trump or not, and realizing that he's not going to be the 47th president and that we need to put together a new plan and a new approach that plays on the things that he did well. You know, he's an outsider, change agent, business guy.

But we've got to do better. We've obviously got to message better and we've got to remind folks of the policies that make sense and put a better direction.

You know, it just blows my mind that folks on my side of the aisle are not holding Joe Biden accountable for what, quite honestly, is a bad direction for this country. We've got massively increasing inflation. We've got instability in all types of labor markets. We've got real problems and we should be holding him accountable. That's the winning strategy for Republicans in 2024.

BERMAN: You say it's a small minority of the party but the polls say otherwise, right? There's a Reuters-Ipsos poll from May 17th to 19th -- who is the true president right now? Among Republicans, 53 percent say Donald Trump.

DUNCAN: Yes, 53 percent in a poll that, quite honestly, I'm not certain is accurate because I'm not certain everybody's --

BERMAN: Even if it's -- even if it's two percent, that's two percent too many. I mean, it can't be off by 50. I mean, it's an unbelievable number there.

DUNCAN: Yes, you're right.

And look, I've got good news. If you're a Republican and you're watching, GOP 2.0 is a group that we've launched -- a movement. And I've got to tell you, I never expected this type of traction and energy. We've got folks coming to gop2.org signing up for the movement, donating money, asking how they can get involved.

There's a real wave of energy here. It's going to take time -- I get that -- but there's a real wave of -- because there's a vacuum in leadership. We can't just keep beating the same drum and expecting different results.

BERMAN: So, just to be clear about what's happening in Georgia, in Fulton County, you've got no time? You don't put any credence at all in this audit that's going on there? Brad Raffensperger, by the way, the Secretary of State, doesn't seem to have an issue with it.

DUNCAN: Yes. Look, if the law provides for there to be another hand count, that's fine. The fifth recount is going to look the same way as the fourth recount, and so on and so on.

But look, if you're a Republican and you truly want to win an election in the future, it's time to turn the page. It's time to figure out a new strategy to help us get this game on the road.

BERMAN: You mention a vacuum in leadership so I do want to get your take on Marjorie Taylor Greene, a member of Congress from the state of Georgia, who has said just things that are horrific about the Holocaust -- and she's still saying it this morning, comparing mask mandates and vaccinations to the Holocaust.

Where is the leadership there? Where is Kevin McCarthy saying stop this?

DUNCAN: Yes, it -- look, it's embarrassing, I've got to be honest with you. It's embarrassing as a Georgian, it's embarrassing as an American, it's embarrassing as a Republican to hear somebody try to spew that type of misinformation and just hatred. And quite honestly, they're chasing sugar highs. I think the Liz

Cheney situation was leadership in Congress and the Republican caucus trying to chase a sugar high.

Look, long-term, we need to put leadership on display. We don't need to worry about pleasing somebody who is a former president in Florida. We need to change direction.

And look, if we want real leaders to rise up, this is the time. This is the time for folks to stand up and say the right thing, say the honest thing, and to truly put leadership on display.

BERMAN: The Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia, Geoff Duncan. Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

DUNCAN: Thank you.

So, the dictator in Belarus just shocked the world by forcing a plane out of the sky just so he could arrest an opposition journalist. Why are authoritarian regimes around the world doing this?

KEILAR: And, United Airlines is offering a major perk for passengers who get vaccinated.

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[07:48:31]

KEILAR: Yet another incentive to get vaccinated and this one's a pretty good one -- free travel. United Airlines is giving away 30 pairs of free roundtrip tickets, as well as a year of free flights to some lucky members of their loyalty program who upload their vaccine cards to their accounts. The program is intended to convince more people to get vaccinated as travel ramps up to its highest point since the beginning of the pandemic.

Joining me now to talk about this is United Airlines chief communications officer, Josh Earnest. Josh, thanks for coming on this morning to talk about this. Tell us about this program and why United decided to launch this.

JOSH EARNEST, CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, UNITED AIRLINES (via Cisco Webex): Yes, good morning, Brianna. It's really nice to see you.

And look, after a year doing interviews like this where we talk about the extraordinary steps that we're taking to try to save the airline or keep people safe from COVID-19 or save jobs, it's actually fun to talk about something extraordinary we're doing to help people enjoy flying again.

And so what we're doing is we're actually encouraging people to upload their vaccine records to their MileagePlus account at United.com. We're calling it our "Your Shot to Fly" sweepstakes campaign. And to enter into that sweepstakes all you have to do is upload those records. And if you do, you could be one of the winners. We're going to choose a winner every single day in the month of June who will get two free roundtrip tickets to fly first-class anywhere United flies. And then on July first, we're going to pick five grand prize winners who get a year of free travel under the same terms.

So we know that the vaccine is the key to getting our economy moving again. We know that it's the key to getting international travel going again. We know it's the best way to keep our employees and our customers safe from COVID-19 while they're flying. So it's all upside for people to get the COVID-19 vaccine.

[07:50:12]

Just upload your records to United.com and we're going to have you covered when you're ready to travel internationally.

KEILAR: Yes, and so many people are ready to, right? They want to go places that they haven't been able to go for almost a year and a half now. So I know a lot of folks are ready for this.

I do want to ask you about what we've seen in Belarus where a commercial flight -- it was carrying a dissident journalist -- was diverted by a fighter jet by the government and forced to land, apparently so that this dissident journalist could be arrested.

At this point in time, how concerned is United Airlines over this kind of behavior?

EARNEST: Well look, Brianna, there's a whole patchwork of international rules and regulations, norms, and even international treaties that govern international travel and the use of airspace for commercial flights.

And it's -- those rules and regulations are in place to protect the safety of the traveling public. They're there to protect the sovereignty of those -- of those countries. But they're also there to facilitate international travel and international trade. And so it's really important that those rules are followed.

And so, I know this is something we've obviously heard the U.S. government talk about how important these rules are. And so we're obviously in close coordination with the -- with the FAA to make sure that those rules are protected all around the world.

KEILAR: So, I know that -- I know that United rarely flies, I think, over airspace in Belarus, but we've seen autocrats in a number of nations just becoming more emboldened. You know, just as an airline, do you have any reason to worry that this kind of, I guess, the autocrats being emboldened -- they might take a page out of the book of what we've seen happen in Belarus?

How should people feel about their safety when they're flying over various airspaces?

EARNEST: Look, Brianna, I -- this is not -- there are a lot of things that we worry about. This is not high on the list. And the reason is that this is actually a really good example of how important it is for the international community to cooperate, and that cooperation benefits everybody.

It facilitates international travel and trade all around the world. And it's in the interest of all of these countries and all of these governments to make sure that those rules are followed, both for the safety and protection and their citizens, for the protection of their sovereignty, but also to facilitate this kind of international travel and trade.

And I think the international outcry that you're hearing against the government of Belarus for this action isn't just because of the egregious human rights questions that are raised here, but also because of the difficult questions that are raised about the importance of these norms, and rules, and regulations.

So I think there is an international consensus around the importance of these rules and we've got a lot of confidence that United travelers and everybody who is, frankly, flying on a U.S. airliner can be confident and feel safe that this is not something that they need to be worried about.

KEILAR: All right. Well, that is good news.

Josh, I think everyone is ready to get back to traveling. I can't wait until my kids are vaccinated and maybe we can hop on a flight to someplace sunny and wonderful.

So thank you so much for being with us this morning -- Josh Earnest.

EARNEST: Yes, thanks for having me. And congrats on the new show.

KEILAR: Thank you.

BERMAN: So, Brianna and Josh were just talking about it. Democracies around the world shocked and dictators delighted after Belarus basically pulled that commercial jet out of the sky to arrest an opposition journalist. It was a state-sponsored hijacking with much wider implications.

John Avlon with a reality check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: A state-sponsored hijacking. That's what the CEO of Ryanair called the forced landing of a commercial airliner to arrest a dissident journalist.

The plane was traveling from Greece to Lithuania, crossing over Belarus, when it was warned that there was a bomb on board. A fighter jet forced the plane to land in Minsk. There was no bomb.

A Belarusian goon squad was waiting to arrest Roman Protasevich and his girlfriend. He told fellow passengers, "I'm facing the death penalty." And while living in exile he'd been deemed a terrorist -- a spin on the old Soviet designation of the opposition as enemies of the people. His real crime was editing a blog on Telegram called Nexta during a mass protest that began last summer.

Here's a quick refresher. In August, there was a sham election in the former Soviet Republic for Alexander Lukashenko, who has ruled for 27 years. After jailing two opposition candidates, the man known as Europe's last dictator allegedly won 80 percent of the vote -- a result, not surprisingly, deemed free or fair by international observers. This provoked mass protests for months in the face of brutal beatings and mass arrests.

Lukashenko was congratulated by his fellow autocrats in Russia and China, but most western nations condemned the oppression. But contrary to Republican and Democratic presidents during the Cold War, there was no condemnation of the crackdown and no support for the dissidents from then-President Trump.

Then-Secretary of State Pompeo put out a perfunctory statement but gave a speech in Prague on August 12th called "Securing the Freedom in the Heart of Europe," in which he never mentioned Belarus.

[07:55:07]

As the magazine "Foreign Policy" wrote at the time, "Once more, we have to wonder whether President Donald Trump is more worried about ruffling feathers in Moscow than he is about advancing democratic values."

As the months dragged on, citizens continued their protests. There were more mass arrests and accusations of widespread torture.

But now, you'd be forgiven for not being up to speed on Belarus. Dictators depend upon forgetting. They want confusion and whataboutism to cover up their power grabs.

And the authoritarian-minded stick together. Kremlin cronies applauded this arrest, like the editor of the state-sponsored "RT" who said, "That was brazen. Great job. That's how it ought to be done."

But why should this matter to you? Because anti-democratic autocratic forces are flexing their muscles, constantly pushing the boundaries of what had been previously recognized as norms.

As Anne Applebaum wrote in "The Atlantic, "This is a story that belongs alongside the Russian use of radioactive poisons against the enemies of the Kremlin in England, Saudi Arabia's brutal murder of one of its citizens in Istanbul, Iranian assassinations of dissidents in the Netherlands and Turkey, and Beijing's kidnapping and detention of Chinese nationals living abroad."

But this sustained assault on democratic norms can also take more subtle forms as fear is used to erode freedom and the rule of law. And these forces will keep pushing to see how far they can go until they are met with a credible threat because bullies only respect strength. It's their native language.

That's why it was so reassuring to see the European Union slap sanctions on Belarus and bar airlines from its airspace. It was also good to see President Biden condemn Belarus' actions as a direct affront to international norms while praising brave dissidents demanding democracy, respect for human rights, and preservation of fundamental freedoms.

There's nothing less than the trajectory of the 21st century is at stake here. The choice is between democracy and autocracy and we can never be neutral in a fight between truth and lies.

As the Czech dissident-turned president Vaclav Havel once said in a more hopeful time, "Truth and love must prevail over lies and hatred."

But to make that dream a reality we need to remember another time- honored truth. The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

And that's your reality check.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: Yes, indeed. John Avlon, thank you very much.

Ahead, the U.S. marks one year since the murder of George Floyd. One father has written an emotional letter to his Black son. They join us live.

KEILAR: And no permit, no background check, no problem for gun owners in Texas. The new law coming down the pike as America sees 13 mass shootings in just a matter of days.

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