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Moderna Announces Trials of COVID-19 Vaccine for Children as Young as 12 up to 100 Percent Effective; Former CDC Director's Comments on Possible Lab Origins of COVID-19 Examined; Father Writes Open Letter to Six-Year-Old Son about Death of George Floyd; Biden's DOJ Appeals Order to Release Trump Obstruction Memo. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 25, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:00:50]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Tuesday, May 25th. And we begin with breaking news this morning. Moderna announcing its coronavirus vaccine is safe for children as young as 12 and up to 100 percent effective.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Moderna also says results show significant protection in adolescents after just one dose. The company planning to submit the results to the FDA early next month along with a request for authorization.

Joining us now CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, Pfizer has already got authorization for 12 to 15-year-olds. What does this mean for Moderna? What does this mean for us, and what does the data show?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, potentially, a lot more doses available for people in this wider age group is what it could mean. This data is coming from the company itself. As we've done now for the past year, we have to look at this data. The FDA will look at this data and vet it all out.

But let me show you basically what it shows here. It's 3,700 participants. There were no cases of COVID in the group that got the vaccine, four cases in the placebo group. Right away, people may look at those and say those sound like small numbers, and they are. These are considered bridging trials. So they're basically looking at their previous adult data and they're sort of bridging it to this pediatric data. They're looking not only at the numbers of cases but also how many antibodies. Were the antibodies good that were being produced in those who got the vaccine?

And the data looks really strong. As you point out, even after the first dose, there was some significant benefit. After the second dose, there were essentially no cases of COVID in the vaccinated group. So we'll see how this plays out over the next several weeks. But it should be another candidate for people who want to get the vaccine in that age group.

KEILAR: And Pfizer got the green light earlier this month to start vaccinating folks in the younger age group. How has that rollout been?

GUPTA: It's been going really well. It's interesting to me. I want to show you these numbers here. It's about five percent of the population, 12 to 15-year-olds. And what we see now is they represent about 25 percent of all the vaccines that were given over the past few weeks now. So I thought that was pretty interesting. I wasn't sure just how many people would sign up or sign up right away, but a lot of people within that 12 to 15 age group are getting the vaccine. Part of it is also you have a shrinking of people who are 16 and older who are getting the vaccine. But nevertheless, I think the rollout is going well, and again, another candidate being offered I think will improve those numbers even more.

KEILAR: Let's clear something up. I think it's so important, because as people get the vaccine, look, they're just going to be, I think, even more concerned with their children than they are going to be with themselves. And the CDC has been getting some reports of myocarditis, which is inflammation of the heart in young people who receive the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. So far, though, this is just a few cases. So is this anything that parents need to be concerned about?

GUPTA: I really don't think so. Like you, I can see why people hear this and they become concerned. There's a couple of things to keep in mind. So there's a few cases of people after the second dose in this age group developing this inflammation of the heart. There's two questions I always ask. One is, what is the overall baseline rate of myocarditis? Forget that there's a pandemic, forget that there's a vaccine. Just in life in general, what is the likelihood? And it does happen, perhaps even at higher baseline rates than what we're seeing with this vaccine. There are other viruses out there that circulate this time of year, adenovirus, coxsackievirus, things like that that can cause myocarditis. So you don't want to conflate the two things.

The second thing is, what is the risk of getting COVID if you're not vaccinated and developing a problem like this? In both those situations, it's higher, those rates are higher than the rate we're seeing with myocarditis in this vaccinated group. So, look, I have three kids, as you both know, in this age group. They have gotten their first vaccine. They are set up to get their second one in a few days now. We're going to continue and proceed. I've looked at the data, and I feel comfortable with that.

[08:05:05]

BERMAN: You've got plus two from this end, Sanjay, on that. My two sons are due for their second dose in a week and a half and I have no concerns, based on the fact that unvaccinated kids have myocarditis at the same rate at the vaccinated. There just doesn't seem to be any evidence right now that it's anything to worry about in an increased way.

I want to talk about the new reporting that raises new questions about the possibility that the origins of the pandemic were from a lab leak in China. What's interesting, Sanjay, is that you've been in the middle of this discussion. It was an interview that you did with former CDC director Robert Redfield I think that put this more in the mainstream. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT REDFIELD, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: It's my opinion, right, but I am a virologist. I have spent my life in virology. I do not believe this somehow came from a bat to a human, and at that moment in time, the virus came to the human, became one of the most infectious viruses that we know in humanity for human-to-human transition.

GUPTA: In the lab do you think that process of becoming more efficient was happening? Is that what you are suggesting?

REDFIELD: Let's just say I have coronavirus that I'm working on. Most of us in a lab who are trying to grow virus try to help make it grow better and better and better and better and better so we can do experiments and figure it out. That's the way I put it together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Actually, now, I want to make one thing clear, and maybe you can explain just what he said. He's not actually one extreme of the lab leak theory, right? There are those who just speculate it could be a bat had it in the lab and gave it to a human because of sloppy conditions and that's how it began. He's actually saying that somehow the virus was being modified and then passed on to human beings.

GUPTA: Right. So I think there's two critical points. I know these always get confused. One is that the idea that it's still originated in a bat is still what Dr. Redfield and others are suggesting. Not that it was bio-manufactured from nothing in a lab. So that's number one.

But number two, right, exactly what you say, the whole point of studying these coronaviruses in labs, as Dr. Redfield explained it to me and others have as well, is that you slowly expose them to human cells and see how they behave. Do they become more efficient? Do they start to learn how to infect these cells in a more efficient way or not? And if they do, that's one of the things that they want to sort of figure out early on because that is a virus that may have a potential for widespread, even pandemic. That's the whole point of that sort of research. That's what he says is going on. So again, not bio-manufactured, but certainly being studied in the lab in this way.

So it's -- when he told me that, it was surprising. This was back in February. It was surprising, not because of what he was saying, but rather that he was the one saying it. He was CDC director. He had access to raw intelligence, raw data, stuff that I don't have access to, and this was his conclusion.

BERMAN: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, as always, thank you. You were out ahead, as is so often the case. Thanks so much.

KEILAR: One year after his murder, George Floyd's family will mark the anniversary at the White House. They are going to meet privately with President Biden and Vice President Harris. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Republican Senators Tim Scott and Lindsey Graham also on the Floyd family's schedule today.

President Biden had set this anniversary as the deadline to pass police reform legislation named in Floyd's honor, and Congress will not meet that goal. But bipartisan negotiators say that they're making progress, real progress on a deal to get the House passed George Floyd Justice in Policing Act through the Senate.

The murder of George Floyd ignited conversations about systemic racism and the historic injustices that are faced by the black community. One father put its thoughts on paper, writing an open letter to his six- year-old son on CNN.com. And that father, Keith Magee, is joining me now. He is the chair and professor of Practice in Social Justice at Newcastle University in England. And you'll say, who is that little guy next to him? That is his son Zayden, to whom he addressed this beautiful letter.

ZAYDEN SAUNDERS-MAGEE, REVEREND PROFESSOR KEITH MAGEE'S SON: Hello.

KEILAR: Hello. Thank you so much to both of you for being with us this morning. Keith, I do want to start with you because I'm hoping -- I just want our viewers to know about what you wrote. Would you mind just reading us some of the letter that you wrote to your sweet son?

REVEREND PROFESSOR KEITH MAGEE, THEOLOGIAN AND SOCIAL JUSTICE SCHOLAR: Sure. It would be my pleasure.

"Dear son, we are upon the first anniversary of a deplorable killing. Last May, outside of a grocery store in Minnesota, George Floyd, a black man, was slowly, casually murdered by a white police officer. Floyd's daughter Gianna is the same age as you. You could be playmates.

[08:10:04]

That is how I know that George Floyd certainly did not choose to sacrifice, as one politician put it, his life to the cause of racial justice, leaving her traumatized and fatherless. Sometimes when I look at your beautiful face, I think of that little girl and my heart breaks. My precious son, you came into my heart almost seven years ago as a gift that I know was heaven sent. An endless curiosity, cheeky bundle of energy you are, beaming with self-confidence, slow to fret and quick to trust. You are lucky enough to be born in a country where dreams can come true, so they say. And I hope that this will be the case for you.

But you were also born inside black skin, and in today's America, that is still tragically a burden to bear. Every day, I pray for strength so that I may help you to carry that burden, make you proud of who you are and teach you how to navigate the visible and invisible currents of racism. More than anything else, I pray that I will be able to keep you safe. No child should have to know this, but as you start to roam beyond our contented, loving bubble, you will encounter individuals who will see you as less than human because of the color of your outer layer. Some of them will even be the very people who have been sworn to protect and serve you. And they will be armed."

BERMAN: That is so lovely, Reverend. And I have to say, I was looking at Zayden's face the whole time, and I can see what inspired you. I can see what inspires you every day. And I just wonder, I have 14- year-old boys, and I know that when I look in their faces, what I see is hope and a limitless future. When you look at your son's face, what is it that you see, and what is it that you think the world sees?

K. MAGEE: I see in his face humanity. I see possibility. I see hope. I see that he has the chance to be a global citizen. And it's what I want the world to see. I honestly have a lot of trepidation bringing him on with me because of what we are experiencing globally around hate. But I hope that what the world sees is a possibility, that they look to realize that there's more beyond the exterior, that there's an essence in him and in all of us, and that we must get beyond looking at the outer layer.

KEILAR: This is your work -- social justice, issues of race. How do you talk to your son about it? What questions does he have of you? How do you answer them?

K. MAGEE: Well, we talk about it from the context of my commitment to deconstructing race. We know that it was constructed. We know how it came about. And I believe we have to spend our time focusing on something beyond the outer layer. So I talk about our collective humanity. I talk about what makes us alike. I explain that on the inside, we all have the same things. And that though our hair texture may be different, our shoe size may be different, that what is inside of us is all the same. We are fundamentally practical Christians. I tell people I'm practicing my faith. And in the context of Christianity, I believe the entire message of it beyond doctrinal beliefs, all the other things that divide, is a simple message of love. So we start from a place of love. How do we love our neighbor as ourselves is what we talk about and which we hope we can obtain.

BERMAN: Zayden, I've got some important questions for you, like what's on your t-shirt and what's in your hands right now?

Z. MAGEE: So, what's in my hand is two Power Rangers, a Golden Ranger and a Green Ranger. And what's on my shirt is Ninjago Lego ninjas.

BERMAN: Which are awesome, to be honest. Ninjagos kind of rule. Zayden, your father is talking about some pretty serious stuff that affects everybody. And I wonder, what do you think of what he has to say? How does it make you feel?

Z. MAGEE: Happy?

K. MAGEE: Happy?

Z. MAGEE: Happy, yes.

[08:15:04]

BERMAN: Why?

MAGEE: Why?

SAUNDERS-MAGEE: Because --

BERMAN: I can tell you, it would make me happy because it would tell me that my father loves me a whole ton and will do everything he can to protect me and make me safe now and for the rest of my life. And it's got to be a great feeling having his arm on your shoulder right now, as I know it's a great feeling to be holding those Power Rangers.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: I think --

MAGEE: One of the things we talk about --

KEILAR: Oh, Keith -- sorry.

MAGEE: No, no, one of the things we talk about is why we live in London. You want to tell them one of the reasons we live here?

SAUNDERS-MAGEE: Because it's safe here.

MAGEE: Why is it safer here than in the U.S.?

SAUNDERS-MAGEE: Because the police officers don't always carry guns.

MAGEE: So that's one of the number one reasons why I live here is that he can be a little boy. Walk in the park as a Power Ranger or with a toy gun and I not have to fear that someone would easily shoot him or mistake him to have a real gun.

So it's the number one reason why we're here in the United Kingdom, though certainly there are challenges here. But I feel safer for him on the streets and at play here in the U.K.

KEILAR: Keith, that is just sort of a sad commentary on the realities of what happens in America. I think that a lot of people read what you wrote and the way that you describe, like John was speaking to, the way you describe Zayden in your hopes for him are what, you know, you would think any parent feels for their child. It really resonates. What does that say to you that this is a choice you made where that is a safer place for -- for your son?

MAGEE: It's a bit disheartening because I'm American to the core. I love everything about America. But there's this 400-year history of the dehumanization of black and brown bodies and I know that we have this urgency to fix this issue and police reform and all these things, and they are important, and it needs to happen, but it's not going to happen in a way that I would feel secure and safe with him by the time he's of age to drive a car.

I don't want to have the same kind of talk with him that my parents had with me. Certainly I'll have a talk. But I want him to have something that is more normal, something more global.

And, you know, with our urgency to do legislation and to change things, I think there are a couple of things we missed. With the Civil Rights Act, we missed the implementation plan that the United States Supreme Court struck down.

So we can do police reform, but it's the implementation plan. What does that look like? How long will it take to go into effect? I want him to be safe during that process.

And so we've chosen to live here. There's a lot of work that we have to do. The urgency of now is critical. It took 400 years to get us here. We're going to have to be a little patient. It may be his grandchildren that live the reality of what I hope for, for him.

KEILAR: Yeah, it is hard to be patient when you're talking about the future and the safety of your children.

Keith Magee, thank you so much.

Zayden, thank you so much.

Your son is beautiful, Keith. We certainly appreciate you sharing him and his sweetness with us. Thank you both.

BERMAN: Ninjagos, rule, Zayden.

MAGEE: Thank you so much.

KEILAR: Power Rangers, too.

SAUNDERS-MAGEE: Ninjagos do rule.

MAGEE: Thank you.

KEILAR: Thanks, Zayden.

Coming up, the Justice Department's surprise appeal over a secret memo used to justify not charging President Trump with obstruction.

BERMAN: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis targeting big tech, threatening to fine companies for censorship. Is it legal?

ROMANS: And the new law in Texas pushed by the NRA letting people carry handguns without a license or background check. A state Democrat will tell us why he is opposed.

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[08:23:37]

KEILAR: President Biden's Justice Department is appealing an order to release the full memo on why former President Trump was not charged with obstruction following the Mueller investigation.

Let's talk about this with CNN legal analyst Carrie Cordero.

Great to see you this morning. Good morning.

Why are they doing this? CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so for folks who have been

looking for the Justice Department to restore norms, under the new attorney general, this is actually what it looks like. This is the Justice Department arguing before a court that some Justice Department legal opinions need to stay within the department so that lawyers can give honest advice to an attorney general.

Notably, the judge in this case was very unhappy with the prior arguments that had been made by the Justice Department and so in the Justice Department's new filing with the court, they fall on their sword. They apologize. They say we didn't mean to mislead the court in this, and so --

KEILAR: The memo, to be clear, the memo is actually -- it would explain what? It would explain why Bill Barr did not proceed with saying, yeah, this was obstruction, right?

CORDERO: Exactly. So, what the prior Justice Department under Attorney General Barr was arguing was that they had given advice to the Attorney General not to pursue prosecution for the former president for obstruction.

[08:25:14]

And so now what they are arguing is that some parts of that memo can be released, but some parts of it have to be advice the lawyers can give to the attorney general that don't get out into the public view.

BERMAN: In addition to this, Don McGahn will now testify behind closed doors to members of the House Judiciary Committee we think next week. There are severe limitations about what he can ask and what he can't be asked. What questions would you ask him? What will this reveal?

CORDERO: Well, one question is, how -- what did he see as far as the president obstructing the investigation? Again, this piece again relates to the very first impeachment of President Trump which had to do with, in part, his obstruction of the Russia investigation.

And so the questions that the House judiciary have for former White House Counsel McGahn have to do with whether what he observed in his capacity of working with the president he saw him obstruct justice. He saw him try to quash the investigation in a way that was corrupt.

Now, even with the agreement that they have worked out, the former White House counsel might still assert that certain communications he had with the former president are privileged. And so we still don't know whether this interview will actually be satisfying or whether, in some circumstances, to some questions, he might still not answer.

KEILAR: Former President Trump's former ambassador to the E.U., Gordon Sondland, is suing Mike Pompeo, the former secretary of state, and the U.S. government to cover almost $2 million in unpaid legal fees that he incurred where he says he incurred from the House impeachment probe. This is a reminder of his testimony and how consequential it was. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GORDON SONDLAND, FOMER AMBSSADOR TO THE E.U.: Was there a quid pro quo? The answer is, yes. Everyone was in the loop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I mean, it was really a big deal what he said. It was not good for President Trump and surprise, surprise, it then turns out that they're not going to foot the legal bill. Do you see this lawsuit actually going anywhere? Do they owe him this money?

CORDERO: I don't think so. So, in this case, you know, a former government official who has to testify before Congress, it really can be an enormous burden including a financial burden. And so, if he was made some kind of promise by the former secretary of state that they were going to foot his legal bills, that was fairly naive on his part to rely on that.

Gordon Sondland's testimony was important because he was someone inside the administration. He was on board with what the administration was doing. He was part of this effort, and again, this related to the second impeachment regarding the Ukraine issues. But I don't think that this suit in the long term will be successful either against the government or against the former secretary of state but it certainly could be irritating.

KEILAR: And if they agree to pay for it, I think it's fair to say the Trump administration officials were expecting something different than they got from the ambassador during his testimony.

Carrie, great to see you. Thank you so much.

CORDERO: Thanks. Nice to be with you.

KEILAR: The clock is ticking, and hope is fading fast for a bipartisan deal on infrastructure. So we're going to speak with the key negotiator on that next.

Plus, is it getting easier to carry a gun in some states? Easier than it is to say vote? The controversial new bill that is on the verge of becoming law in Texas.

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