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Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) is Interviewed about the Infrastructure Bill, 1/6 Commission and Police Reform; Joe Moody is Interviewed about Texas' Gun Carry Law. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 25, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:32:51]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: One of the key Republican senators negotiating the infrastructure bill in Congress told reporters that Republicans are willing to spend up to $1 trillion. That's Roger Wicker of Mississippi, a Republican.

Joining us now, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin. He serves as the whip of the Democratic Party, as well as the chair of the Judiciary Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for being with us.

You told reporters yesterday you are reluctant to go below $1.7 trillion. Roger Wicker, Republican, says $1 trillion. By my math, that's a lot lower than $1.7 trillion. Your reaction?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Well, it is. And I think there are two reasons why we ought to think twice about $1 trillion or anything less. The first, of course, is that it would cut out money for research, innovation, creating new businesses, for example, chip manufacturing in the United States with American workers, things that are essential to the growth of our economy. So we'd leave those on the table if we come and low ball the figure.

And, secondly, you know, the bottom line is this, if we are going to move forward in this economy, we need to do it on a bipartisan basis to get it done. President Biden has reached out to the Republicans over and over again to try to reach some compromise. I think he is right to do that. But at some point we have to move forward.

BERMAN: When's that point?

DURBIN: Well, I think it's coming very soon and that's --

BERMAN: Like how soon?

DURBIN: Well, in a matter of weeks as far as I'm concerned. You know, just consider the fact that after all the promises, Donald Trump never delivered, never delivered on an infrastructure package. The problem that he faced in the Republican Party still is there today, they're not willing to pay for it. They don't want to increase taxes on the people who are wealthy, folks who got an enormous tax break with the Trump tax plan. And, unfortunately, that leaves them very little money to work with to build this economy.

BERMAN: Respectfully, though, you say weeks. What your waiting for? I mean, at this point, what sign have Republicans given you that they're willing to work with you? If you're not going to get them on board, and that's what you truly believe, why not move forward now?

DURBIN: Well, patience is absolutely the first requirement of being a senator. And it can be frustrating I can tell you. But as long as there is a constructive conversation at the table, I don't want to cut it off.

[08:35:02]

But there comes a point, and I think it's soon, where we have to reach either an agreement or try to move in a different direction.

BERMAN: You know, this is connected, right? I understand that there may be a vote scheduled in the Senate on the bipartisan January 6th commission. I also understand that there isn't really reason to believe there are enough Republican votes to pass it. A lot of people think this is low hanging fruit, right? I mean, what does it tell you if you can't even get this through. Why, if you can't get this through, can you get anything else?

DURBIN: I tell you, it is very depressing. When Senator McConnell came out against this commission, I was with him on January 6th. We were at the so-called secret location. I know how he felt. He was angry and frustrated. He was determined to get us back into session that same day and finish our work on the Electoral College vote.

And to say now that we're going to step away from having an official, bipartisan commission, evenly divided commission, make an historic record of what happened on that day, is a true disappointment. I hope there are enough Republican senators who are still outraged as I am at what happened with that insurrectionist mob that they will push forward for this to happen despite Senator McConnell.

BERMAN: You say you hope but you don't really think at this point, do you?

DURBIN: I don't know. I really don't know. We're going to -- as Chuck Schumer said, we're going to bring it to a vote and we'll see.

BERMAN: What does it tell you if they filibuster it?

DURBIN: Well, it's disappointing and it's an indication of how the filibuster is even stopping the most basic thing, bipartisan commission, from being created.

BERMAN: Does it mean you should get rid of the filibuster?

DURBIN: Well, we should obviously take a look at it. If it's going to stop essential business for the United States Senate, we have to re- evaluate it.

BERMAN: We've talked a lot about -- a lot -- a few things that will not happen, I doubt, with bipartisan support at this point, but police reform.

Tim Scott and Corey Booker, Karen Bass also, they're at the table trying to work out a deal. Yesterday, for the first time in several days, they expressed optimism. I mean Tim Scott said he sees a light at the end of the tunnel.

Do you have any inside reporting on how close these negotiations might be?

DURBIN: Well, of course, Cory Booker is the Crime Subcommittee chair on our Senate Judiciary Committee. And I sat down with him last night for a lengthy meeting and went through point by point the issues that are still outstanding.

They can see the finish line. They are reaching it. But they aren't there yet. There's still critical decisions to be made.

I just put a lot of faith in all of the three people that you mentioned. And I know that Cory Booker and Tim Scott and Karen Bass are doing their best. Now we have to be willing to compromise on both sides to find a -- have a final product. But on this, the anniversary of George Floyd's death, I hope that we keep a positive attitude to doing some -- making more justice in America.

BERMAN: So you sat down and talked to Senator Booker last night about this. Do you have a sense of how many days away they might be and what the major sticking points left are?

DURBIN: I do.

BERMAN: And?

DURBIN: I'm not going to announce it. I'm going to leave it to them. But --

BERMAN: You don't have to announce it. You just say it.

DURBIN: I just have to tell you that they're doing a great job and I don't want to step on their effort in any way whatsoever. But I felt positive at the end of the day. We can do this. There's still some tough decisions ahead. But on this, the anniversary of George Floyd's death, we owe it to him and his family and the force that he has created, not only in the United States but around the world for justice.

BERMAN: I want to ask you finally, at the beginning of the month you sent a letter to the FBI director about some news reports claiming the FBI had sources within the Proud Boys but didn't develop the intelligence. You wrote, these reports raise further concerns about the FBI's failure to detect and develop intelligence concerning the threat that the Proud Boys and other violent right wing extremists posed to the Capitol on January 6th. You ever get a response to that letter?

DURBIN: No response yet, but I expect one.

Christopher Wray, the leader at the FBI, testified before our committee early on that this was the major threat to America's peaceful security. These white supremacy groups and the like, we have to take them seriously. This is just not some blip on the screen, some social media phenomena. They are a danger to the United States and they need to be treated as such.

BERMAN: Senator Dick Durbin, we appreciate you being with us this morning. Thanks so much for your time.

DURBIN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Just in, President Biden and Russia's Vladimir Putin expected to meet face-to-face next month in Switzerland. We are told Geneva has emerged as the final contender for the host city. Tensions, obviously, very high between these two countries.

So with handgun deaths sharply increasing, Texas just passed a new bill allowing people to openly carry without a license or training. A Democrat from El Paso, the scene of the horrific 2019 massacre, think that's a terrible idea. He joins us next.

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[08:43:35]

BERMAN: So far this year, more than 7,500 people have died from gun violence in America. That is a 23 percent increase over 2020. The nation seeing more than 230 mass shootings this year, including at least 13 in just the past few days. It's only May. It's May. There's more of 2021 remaining than has already passed, and yet, this is the message that a Republican senator and the NRA have in this climate.

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SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): Folks, I believe that love is the answer, but you ought to own a handgun just in case.

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BERMAN: Aside from the smooth jazz, soft porn music there, you saw it right, with a wave of gun violence, potentially deadly weapons, no problem. Spellcheck, that's another matter. Just four months after the armed insurrection at the Capitol and the aforementioned mass shootings, more states are making it easier to buy, own and carry firearms without a license. In Texas, Republicans just passed a new bill that allows anyone over the age of 21 to carry a concealed handgun without obtaining a license or training. Supporters call it a constitutional carry. Critics, including law enforcement, say it makes the streets more dangerous. But Texas Governor Greg Abbott will sign it anyway.

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GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): Yes, I support it, and I believe it should reach my desk, and we should have constitutional carry in Texas.

[08:45:01]

This is something that 20 other states already have adopted.

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BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Now Texas will join five other states that have all passed some form of permitless carry legislation just this year. This despite the fact that a majority of Texans, some 59 percent, oppose unlicensed carry, according to a University of Texas/"Texas Tribune" poll.

But the proposal was far more popular with Republicans. Fifty-six percent of them support unlicensed carry, while 85 percent of Democrats oppose it. And now because of this, it is getting easier to own and carry a handgun in Texas, even as it gets harder to vote there.

Joining me now, Texas State Representative Joe Moody.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

You represent an area that has seen some of the worst of this violence, some of the most horrific. We saw that 2019 shooting in Walmart that was just terrible. And the nation watched as that happened and yet here we are. Texas lawmakers have approved allowing people to carry handguns without a license and the background check and training that go with it.

What do you think, what is that going to look like on the ground in Texas as far as people walking around carrying handguns?

JOE MOODY (D), TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Right. Permitless carry is bad policy. But it compounds the problem in our law now. We don't have back ground checks. We don't have safe storage laws. We don't have really basic safety measures in our law. And so when you add permitless carry to the top of that, you -- it exacerbates the problem that already exists in Texas, which is people that shouldn't have access to weapons now can do so and we have no -- we have no safety valves whatsoever.

I mean like three weeks after the tragedy in El Paso, you had another shooter in the Midland/Odessa area who went to go try to buy a gun, failed a background check, walked out of that store and went to a private sale because there's no background checks on private sales here in Texas and got a weapon and then murdered people. So, in the -- in the face of those tragedies, we've essentially compounded the problem.

KEILAR: So if someone is a felon, if, for instance, they have a restraining order against them or they, you know, they have issues as far as domestic assault has gone, they're not supposed to be carrying a weapon. What is to stop them from basically opening -- openly carrying a handgun?

MOODY: In the law as it is, it's -- or the law that's being sent to the governor, it says, if you're not supposed to have one, you can't have one, but there's no enforcement mechanism. There's zero.

So the moment that we will find out that someone shouldn't have had that weapon is the moment in which loved ones will be -- are going to be called, are being told that their relative, their spouse, their child, their parent is dead. That's when they're going to find out that that person shouldn't have had a weapon. That's the tragedy that's waiting to come to the next city in Texas.

KEILAR: Law enforcement is concerned about this bill. They're concerned that this is going to endanger people and endanger officers. They will be able to -- you know, if they see someone openly carrying a handgun, they will be able to question them. That is a provision that stayed in this bill.

Does that give you any pause that there is a modicum of safety in this bill?

MOODY: No. No, that's -- I mean that's really just window dressing in the bill. And it's -- you know, it's really funny, when you juxtapose it with other bills where, you know, everyone is defending the police and not defunding the police, right, we have those bills going on in Texas today. We heard one on the floor yesterday. We respect law enforcement. We want to make sure that they have the tools in their tool belt to be able to solve the crimes of the day, make sure they're not attacked. Yet when law enforcement stands up and says, hey, by the way, we don't want this, we ignore them. So the hypocrisy around this issue is real.

KEILAR: Texas State Rep Joe Moody, we will certainly be watching this story in Texas, and we appreciate you joining us.

MOODY: Thank you so much.

KEILAR: An Oregon man, missing in the wilderness for two weeks, found alive. We'll have the story of his remarkable rescue, next.

BERMAN: Plus, more on the breaking news. Moderna releasing the results of its vaccine tests for adolescents. We have details ahead.

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[08:54:05]

KEILAR: It is time now for "The Good Stuff."

A 69-year-old fisherman found alive after 17 nights missing in the Oregon wilderness. Harry Burleigh's wife, Stacy, reported him missing on May 7th after he didn't return from a camping trip. Search teams scoured the area for days. They even left packages of food along the trails there in the hopes that he would find them. And when rescuers stumbled upon a makeshift shelter and they called out his name, finally they heard a reply. Harry is in stable condition, though he has voiced some concerns about some minor pain. But after an evaluation at a hospital, Harry was reunited with his family on Sunday night. So wonderful to have a good ending to that story, John.

BERMAN: Yes, that is -- that is terrific news. That did not look good for a while, so I'm glad it ended the way it did.

KEILAR: Yes.

BERMAN: Here are five things to know for your NEW DAY.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu meeting in Jerusalem as the cease-fire holds with Hamas.

[08:55:04]

Blinken says the U.S. is committed to making a significant contribution toward the rebuilding of Gaza. The secretary meets with the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, this hour before heading to Cairo on the next stop of his Mideast tour.

KEILAR: And more than 300 children are missing or separated from their families after a volcanic eruption in the Democratic Republic of Congo. The death toll there is standing at 31. It is, though, expected to rise. These are children who were lost as thousands of residents fled the city of Goma into Rwanda.

BERMAN: More than 1 million people are being evacuated as an intensifying tropical cyclone churns toward India's eastern states. It comes after the strongest storm to ever hit India's western coast made landfall last week. That killed more than 100 people.

KEILAR: And an emergency shelter at Ft. Bliss, Texas, is reportedly like a warehouse for thousands of migrant children. Now immigrant officials are -- immigration officials say they are said to be considering doubling the population there, making an already difficult situation even worse.

BERMAN: Walmart says racist emails that customers received from its account were actually sent by what it calls an external bad actor. The auto-generated emails which contain the "n" word were sent to dozens of people who were signed up for fake Walmart accounts.

So President Biden meeting with the family of George Floyd today on the first anniversary of his murder. Our coverage continues right after this.

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