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New Day
Woman Behind Arizona Audit Speaks to CNN; Troop Withdrawal Leaves Afghans at Risk; Time to Cancel Olympics; Cash for Shots; Gov. Mike DeWine (R-OH) is Interviewed about the Vaccine Lottery; Volcano Separates Families in Congo. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired May 26, 2021 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[08:30:00]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Arizona Senate President Karen Fann, a Republican, now she declined a dozen requests for an interview but CNN's Kyung Lah did an amazing job and caught up her in the senate parking lot.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN FANN (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATE PRESIDENT: I don't know what's legit, what isn't legit. But why wouldn't we want to answer those questions? Do we just --
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Because you're questioning democracy?
FANN: No, I'm questioning the integrity of the election system.
LAH: Which is the backbone of democracy.
FANN: That's right. Which means we should have full, 100 percent confidence in our democracy and in our election system.
LAH: You're talking about trying to disprove conspiracies.
FANN: If I have to, yes. Why wouldn't we? If somebody says something is out there, I would love to be able to say, that's not true, guys.
LAH: Aren't you rising more questions by giving rise to these conspiracy theories?
FANN: No, I'm answering questions. OK, so let me ask you a question. Are you 100 percent confident that every vote that came in, in Arizona or any other state, are -- can you say emphatically 100 percent that no dead people voted, that ballots weren't filled out by other people, that the chain of custody from the minute people's voted, their ballots, that the chain of custody was accurate and on target the entire time? Can you tell me that?
LAH: I can say that what the data shows us is that there was no widespread fraud. FANN: No, no. I'm asking -- I -- I didn't say there was fraud.
LAH: But you just said chain of custody --
FANN: Yes, chain of custody.
LAH: Dead people. That's -- literally, these things are all fraud.
FANN: OK. Well, I asked you a question.
LAH: Uh-huh.
FANN: Can you honestly tell me, in all the states, that no ballots from people that are already deceased were not filled out and sent in?
LAH: I can tell you that what the data has shown overwhelmingly is that elections -- this was most -- the most secure election in American history.
FANN: OK. But you can't answer that question either, can you?
LAH: I -- I'm -- I'm answering it. I'm telling you that --
FANN: No, you're telling me what the data says. I asked -- you were asking me --
LAH: And the data is what we should be driven by.
FANN: First of all, when we talk about transparency, from day one the entire process has been live streaming so anybody --
LAH: On OAN with cameras controlled by OAN.
FANN: Are you saying that OAN is not a credible news -- news source?
LAH: Yes.
FANN: Are you saying that?
OK. I'll remember that. CNN is saying that OAN is not a credible one.
LAH: Yes.
FANN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: Kyung Lah could save Arizona a whole lot of money and a whole lot of time by just telling them what the data is. You know, the conversation was just stunning. I mean, the senate president saying to Kyung, so -- so you're just telling me what the data is. And Kyung's like, yes.
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.
BERMAN: I'm telling you what the data is. AVLON: Yes. It is -- it is such an extraordinary interrogation because
you realize the person pushing this, the president of the Arizona state senate's, got the arguments in place of someone on a subret (ph). These are not fact-based arguments being pushed by people with enormous power and responsibility. They're really just riffing off what they've heard, rumors on television and worse. And they -- they're legitimizing conspiracy theories. They don't have the receipts.
BERMAN: It's also just a logical fallacy.
AVLON: Of course.
BERMAN: The whole thing is just intellectually dishonest and it gets to something we talked about before.
I mean, you know, I think there's a goblin outside the door. Prove to me -- prove to me that there's not a goblin outside the door.
AVLON: Yes.
BERMAN: Who's that on? Is that on me or you?
AVLON: That's on you.
BERMAN: Exactly.
AVLON: Yes.
BERMAN: Exactly. So you don't do an election audit to prove a theory of madness.
AVLON: No, this is the -- this is the know nothing, suspect everything school of interrogation. And that's not the way to run an election or a state government. And it undermines faith in democracy on the basis of, as we just heard, nothing.
BERMAN: All right, please go check behind the door and see if there's a goblin out there.
AVLON: We'll do.
BERMAN: Brianna.
KEILAR: Well, that's part of parenting, right, you're looking under the bed for the monster. I think we're all familiar with this, but I don't think that we carry that over into the other parts of our life, correct?
BERMAN: Very -- you know, and my kids, when they were four, should not have been in charge of the election in Arizona.
KEILAR: They might have done better, though, to be honest.
BERMAN: No doubt.
KEILAR: John Berman, thank you.
America's longest war may be winding down, but as U.S. troops are withdrawing from Afghanistan, there are thousands of Afghans who worked with them and put themselves in considerable harm's way to do so and they're being left behind.
Barbara Starr is live at the Pentagon.
Barbara, this is actually -- this is a concern I hear over and over again, not just from service members but from their family members who know that service members served alongside Afghans like brothers and sisters in arms. They're incredibly concerned about what is going to happen to these folks.
What's being done to make insure they aren't abandoned by the U.S.?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, Brianna.
Here's where things stand right now. The Pentagon informally estimates it can now get U.S. troops out of Afghanistan perhaps sometime in July, weeks ahead of the September deadline. But what about the estimated 18,000 Afghans and their family members who, as you say, those Afghans worked for the U.S. government and the coalition over the last 20 years as translators and in other jobs helping the U.S. troops out across the country.
[08:35:07]
They are under threat from the Taliban. The threat of murder, retribution, violence as that protective layer of U.S. troops leaves. A lot of them want to get out. They want to apply for a special visa program and be able to leave Afghanistan.
The Biden administration has not made a decision on whether to allow it. But here at the Pentagon, military commanders are beginning to do the very informal sort of back of the envelope planning because it would be a massive operation to get them out and get them out in time.
The military doesn't like to go from a cold start, so they're looking at things like how many aircraft, where are the people, how could you potentially do it? They're very expert in this kind of planning scenario.
Bipartisan pressure from Congress is growing on the White House to make a decision. I want you to listen to the ranking Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-TX): We owe a moral responsibility to them to get them out of there before the Taliban kills them. We cannot allow Afghanistan to be another Saigon. This isn't just about the people waiting for these visas in Afghanistan. If our allies and partners don't trust us to keep our word, or think they will be abandoned, it could cause irreparable damage to our national security. (END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: Look, the U.S. military has a lot of experience around the world evacuating non-combatants out of combat zones. They know how to do this. A decision has to first come from the White House. But the clock is ticking. U.S. troops could be fully out of Afghanistan in a matter of weeks.
Brianna.
KEILAR: This is such an important, moral and strategic question that needs to be answered.
Barbara Starr, thank you for the latest on that, from the Pentagon.
Up next, the Tokyo Summer Olympics are at risk. We're going to speak with one doctor who says they probably shouldn't happen.
BERMAN: And cash for shots. Do vaccine incentives like Ohio's lottery jackpot really work?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:41:08]
BERMAN: Less than two months before the opening ceremonies in Tokyo, an influential Japanese newspaper and official partner of the games published an editorial criticizing the prime minister for refusing to cancel the summer Olympics, saying the decision goes against the will of the public.
Japan is in the middle of an alarming COVID surge and has one of the lowest vaccination rates among developed nations, less than 5 percent.
Joining me now is Michael Osterholm, he's the director for the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.
Professor, great to see you again.
You're part of a group of influential scientists who wrote an article for "The New England Journal of Medicine" which said, look, Japan, if you're going to do the Olympics, you're doing it wrong. So what aren't they doing? What do they need to be doing?
MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: Well, first of all, thanks, John, for having me.
You know, we are, right now, in this countdown, as you just noted, with less than two months to go before the Olympics are about to happen. We have 15,000 athletes and support members from different -- over 200 countries descending upon Japan.
First of all, right now, for many of the participants, the vaccines are not available or they're not being used. And particularly for younger individuals under 18 years of age, we have over 100 countries who are not even approved for children or younger than that, yet we have many athletes in that area. We've got to address the vaccine issue immediately.
Second of all, both the World Health Organization and the CDC have just recently come into the world of modern era biology and understanding that aerosols play a very important role. Those are the tiny particles that float in the air. And there's virtually been no planning for how are we going to move people in buses or putting three people to a hotel room or where do they eat and what kind of respiratory protection do they have? In fact, they noted each country should bring their own face masks.
So I think what we're calling for is really an emergency review of all the recommendations that have been made, how to handle it as safely as possible in light of what's happening right now in Japan itself.
BERMAN: Would you cancel the games if you could?
OSTERHOLM: You know, I'd give them a chance right now. I think that we all want the good news of the Olympics. No -- I think no one at this point wouldn't want to have that torch lit and to see us come back together. But I think that the approach they're taking right now is virtually a dangerous one if they don't change many of the recommendations they have and for how they're going to protect athletes and their support team members. I think this is a real challenge.
BERMAN: So, Professor, we've talked to you a lot over the last 14 months and we're so appreciative of everything you've had to say.
OSTERHOLM: Yes.
BERMAN: At the beginning of April you were with us and others and you were concerned that the pandemic was at category five hurricane status in the United States. You were worried we were going to see a surge, a fourth wave in cases.
OSTERHOLM: Yes.
BERMAN: The hurricane didn't make landfall, as it were. It didn't end up being as bad as I think you feared. Why not? What happened?
OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, you have to have a real dose of humility and say we don't know why. You know, what we saw in Michigan and Minnesota and didn't happen in 40 other states is an unknown that no one can answer right now.
One thing that did play a very key role -- and having been involved with these discussions, I remember back in last November and December, you know, we were debating as part of the Biden/Harris transition (ph) COVID task force group, was it realistic to think you could get 100 million doses of vaccine out in 100 days or were we setting an aspirational goal that just couldn't be met? Well, as you well know, the administration didn't just hit 100 million doses in the first 100 days, but 220 million doses. And clearly the vaccination program in this country was a major
success in at least putting enough rods in the virus transmission reaction to slow it down. But we still have many locations in this country that are at very low levels of immunization status. We have counties in the south where less than 20 percent of the population has been vaccinated.
[08:45:01]
So we're not done with this yet.
I do believe we've taken off the table the idea of some kind of a surge like we've seen in India, but we're still not done with this virus in the United States, particularly as these new variants continue to spread. As England is now seeing with the variant that came out of India, they're now seeing an uptick in cases despite their very favorable position with vaccination.
BERMAN: Professor Michael Osterholm, always a pleasure to see you. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.
OSTERHOLM: Thanks, John. Take care. Bye.
BERMAN: So, someone in Ohio is just hours away from becoming a millionaire. We'll ask Governor Mike DeWine what he knows about the winner of tonight's Vax-a-Million jackpot, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: So from cash to college, states are playing "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?" when it comes to vaccines.
CNN's Erica Hill has this "NEW DAY Explainer."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Cash for shots. With vaccination rates slowing and COVID cases falling, states are doing anything they can to get everyone vaccinated. At least five states in the U.S. now offering cash incentives to residents who get the COVID-19 vaccine.
Ohio's governor drawing five $1 million jackpots. And since that announcement, the state reports vaccination rates have gone up dramatically.
Four other states following in Ohio's footsteps. In New York there's a vax-and-scratch lottery. You get a shot, you get a free $20 scratch- off ticket with a chance to win $5 million.
In Maryland, there's $2 million in cash prizes and all you have to do to enter is get a shot. A $40,000 cash prize will be drawn each day until July. Final jackpot, $400,000 will be drawn on the Fourth of July.
And in Kentucky, a lottery with a nightly $225,000 cash prize. The state handed out $225,000 one dollar lottery tickets to anyone who got the vaccine.
Finally, in Oregon, there's take your shot. Folks there have a chance to win a million dollar prize and some smaller cash prizes across three dozen counties.
And don't worry if you're too young to gamble. Five winners will be chosen to receive a college savings fund.
Call them incentives. Call them bribes. But, hey, they just may help the nation get lucky in the fight to end this pandemic.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[08:50:03]
KEILAR: All right, let's talk more about this now with Republican Governor Mike DeWine of Ohio, because tonight your state is actually holding its first of five Vax-a-Million lottery drawings. You're going to award one lucky vaccinated adult $1 million.
Governor, thanks for being with us.
And I know the name has already been randomly drawn here ahead of this reveal tonight so I know you're not going to tell us who it is but can you at least tell us, you know, what city they're from, or county? Anything?
GOV. MIKE DEWINE (R-OH): No, I can't do that. No, no.
KEILAR: Get them excited. Come on, Governor, get them excited.
DEWINE: I don't -- no, I -- I don't actually know the names yet.
KEILAR: OK.
DEWINE: I'll find that out later today. We'll be trying to keep it into a small group of people.
But, look, it is exciting. And not only is there going to be a millionaire tonight, not only are we going to have a student who's going to be guaranteed four years of room, board, tuition, everything else at one of our great state universities, but even more important is the number of Ohioans who have gotten vaccinated.
We were seeing the vaccinations go down as we were seeing across the country. We came up with this idea. After we announced it, those numbers have gone up. About a 45 percent increase in the number of people getting vaccinated. And it's fascinating, the biggest group where we're seeing the biggest jump, guess what, 16-year-olds and 17- year-olds, a 94 percent increase in that group. And you can just hear mom and dad and you can hear the students thinking, you know, I might get a four-year scholarship. And the odds for that are pretty good. Over 100,000 people have signed up. Kids have signed up. So a lot better odds than -- certainly than most lotteries.
So it's going to be exciting. It's at 7:29 tonight. This -- these two names will be revealed.
KEILAR: Yes, I mean, that is exciting about young people. They are generally very healthy, but they can also be huge spreaders of coronavirus.
You know, we had an Ohio state rep. on earlier this week who is criticizing, trying to stop your Vax-a-Million lottery, although I don't think she's going to be successful. But she says this is a misuse of taxpayer funds and it's basically a bribe. What do you say to that?
DEWINE: Well, we need to save lives. We need to get Ohio moving forward. The way we do it is through vaccines. This is our ticket out of the pandemic. This is the great tool that we have now.
And what Fran and I found, my wife Fran and I, as we traveled around the state, we've been to over 40 vaccination sites over the last month or so and there are just some people who just, you know, didn't feel strongly about it and were kind of postponing whether they got it or not or when they got it. So what we've been able to do and what we will hope to continue to be able to do is not only get more people vaccinated, but have some people move up their schedule. So if you get someone vaccinated today, you know, they can't spread it. They can't get it. And it's so much more valuable than if they wait two months or three months to do that.
KEILAR: Yes.
DEWINE: So it's been very successful. We're excited about it. And, you know, I know people have criticized it. Look, Mike, this is a, you know, this is a big waste. The true waste at this point in the pandemic is for someone to die from COVID when that's not necessary, when we have the vaccine that could save their life. That is what the true waste is.
KEILAR: Yes, look, I thought it was expensive-ish and then I did a little research and realized you're talking about 32 ICU stays with a ventilator for each one of these Vax-a-Million lotteries we're doing. So that was one way to kind of put it into context.
Real quick, Governor, before I let you go, the most important thing, how are you awarding this? Are we talking like a giant check? Are these rolls are pennies? What are you doing? How are you giving this out?
DEWINE: Yes, we'll -- you know, with the scholarship, the money will be put into a 529 and, you know, that could be someone as young as 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. We don't know the age. And so that money will be there when they go to college. They'll be able to pull that down. So that's exciting. And I'm assuming our lottery is going to, you know, give out a check, so a check for a million dollars.
KEILAR: All right, I was hoping for rolls of pennies, I'm not going to lie, but I think it's exciting either way.
Governor DeWine, thanks for being with us. DEWINE: Thank you. Good to be with you.
KEILAR: CNN is on the ground where the streets are literally on fire after the deadly eruption of a volcano in the Congo. We'll have a live report, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:58:24]
BERMAN: At least 31 people have died and more than 300 children are feared missing or separated from their families after a Congo volcano eruption left a trail of destruction. Fountains of lava pouring into villages forced 30,000 people to flee their homes.
CNN's Larry Madowo live in neighboring Kigali in Rwanda where many families are now seeking refuge.
Larry.
LARRY MADOWO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, imagine this, 2 million people, a city, a large metropolis in the direct path of an active volcano, one of the most dangerous in the world. That is the situation in Goma, which is just six miles away from Mount Nyiragongo, which erupted Saturday, leading to the death of 31 people and now tens of thousands are displaced.
They're not dealing with a different kind of problem. There's been earthquakes reported over the last few days. We're feeling those earthquakes and tremors as far up here in Kigali, about 65 miles away from that. And many people are afraid that their high-rise buildings might collapse on them. There's been damage to schools and hospitals. There are cracks appearing on roads. It's a situation that has a lot of residents worried. Many of them, again, trying to run away from this part of the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo across the border into Rwanda to be safe until they're sure that this volcano is not going to erupt again because the last two times it erupted, John, 250 people died in 2002 and 600 people died in 1977. And volcanologists say this kind of activity often precedes another big eruption, which might just be a few days or a few years away.
BERMAN: Reason for concern to be sure.
Larry Madowo, please stay safe. Thank you so much for your report. Appreciate it.
All right, a lot going on this morning.
[09:00:00]
Time to turn it over to Poppy Harlow and Jim Sciutto, who has seen many, many important films, Brianna.
