Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Vote on 1/6 Commission Delayed after Senate GOP Stall Tactic; Trump's Party Drowns Out Paul Ryan's Case Against Trumpism; GOP's Greene Absurdly Compares Democrats to Nazis; Russia Hacks System Used by U.S. Agency. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired May 28, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar, alongside John Berman on this NEW DAY. Drama unfolding right now on Capitol Hill. Republicans overnight holding up a vote on the commission to investigate the insurrection.

[05:59:47]

Plus, a tale of two parties. A former Republican House speaker criticizing Trumpism, while two Trump apprentices compare Democrats to Nazis and encourage supporters to take up arms.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, breaking news. America under attack. Russian hackers target email used by the State Department, a brazen, almost cheeky, assault just weeks before a proposed summit between President Biden and Vladimir Putin.

And new this morning, the U.S. apparently with a treasure trove of unexamined evidence that may shed light on the mystery over the origins of the mystery over the coronavirus.

KEILAR: A very good morning to viewers here in the United States and around the world. It is Friday, May 28, and the Senate burning the midnight oil and then some overnight, setting up a showdown this morning on the bill that would form a commission to investigate the January 6 insurrection.

So here's what is delaying the Senate. They went until almost 3 a.m. this morning debating a bill that aims to counter China's influence after Republicans derailed it.

For senators who are looking to skedaddle early this holiday weekend. They can take it up with Wisconsin Senator Ron Johnson, who is stalling to protest the China bill.

BERMAN: So the Senate back in session, not expected until later today. And even when it happens, will pick up where it left off, meaning a vote on the insurrection commission not expected until later today, and even when it happens, Republicans almost certain to block it.

Sources tell CNN over the past 24 hours, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell has increased the pressure on his colleagues to oppose the measure. He's calling wavering senators and saying they should post a filibuster, support a filibuster as a personal favor.

We have Jessica Dean on Capitol Hill for us this morning. They were up all night, Jessica, but still, still couldn't get the job done.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Still couldn't get it done, John, and they're going to resume the debate here in just about three hours after you said, being up pretty much all night. We had some Republicans on the floor until about 3 a.m. in the morning as they -- as these Republicans have stalled what's known as the Endless Frontiers Act. It's a bill that's aimed at increasing America's competitiveness with China.

So there's still a long way to go. Let me kind of lay it out for you. Once they resume debate today at 9 a.m., they've still got four votes on that China bill that they need to get through.

That's then going to open up to 30 hours of debate. Now, we're not expecting them to take that long, but Republicans are expected to use about eight hours of that debate.

It could be faster, could be slower. Then they'll vote on that bill, and only then can they then get to the business of the January 6 Commission. That's going to need 60 votes. It's a key test vote to see if they can move forward with that commission bill.

We are not expecting it to get the 60 votes needed, getting those ten Republicans to support that bill. Instead, we're expecting that to fail. And then, of course, it becomes what happens next with this January 6 Commission, what does House speaker Nancy Pelosi do, what do Democrats do as they try to move forward?

Of course, Republicans have said that they don't need additional inquiries, that there are already law enforcement investigations going, John, but Democrats are saying this is just pure politics, that Republicans don't want this happening right around the time of those 2022 midterms, of course, when they're looking to pick up majorities, both in the House and the Senate.

So bottom line here, John, expect a long day here on Capitol Hill. We're still not exactly sure what time this vote on the January 6 Commission is going to happen, just that it's going to likely be later today. Of course, as you mentioned, they're looking to be out on recess next week, so senators hoping to get out of here soon. Could be a long day, though.

BERMAN: They want -- they want their time off. They want their time off. You know, there was a discussion about a January 6 Commission, but they want their time off, and that may be the pressure that they feel.

It's also worth noting, as you said, you know, Ron Johnson, who is a guy that has called the insurrection a peaceful protest. He's the guy holding up the vote indirectly because of his shenanigans on another bill. Jessica Dean, keep us posted if there are any developments over the next few hours. The mother of fallen Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick wearing a

necklace that contained her son's ashes, and she did that as she met with Republican senators, hoping to change some minds on voting against the commission.

But here is what she said following one of those meetings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLADYS SICKNICK, MOTHER OF FALLEN CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER BRIAN SICKNICK: They're supposed to uphold the Constitution. And right now, I don't think they're doing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Sources say most of the meetings were cordial, even as most of the senators told her they would not change their minds. Senator Lindsey Graham defended his opposition in a statement, saying, "I oppose the House-passed bill as I believe the commission approach will turn it into a partisan food fight."

By the way, it's a bipartisan commission with no elected officials on it.

He went on to say, "There's no reason the Senate cannot get to the truth through the existing investigations."

Senator Ron Johnson, the aforementioned Senator Ron Johnson, said after his meeting, quote, "Although we respectfully disagreed on the added value of the commission. I did commit to doing everything I could to ensure all our questions would be answered."

[06:05:08]

Sources also said some sparks flew during a meeting with Senator Johnson. He, of course, did downplay the insurrection, called it a peaceful protest. This is just a brief reminder of what he said in the past.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): Many of the marchers were families with small children. Many were elderly, overweight, or just plain tired or frail, traits not typically attributed to the riot-prone.

I knew those were people that love this country, that truly respect law enforcement, would never do anything to break the law. And so I wasn't concerned. Had the tables been turned and President Trump won the election, and those were tens of thousands of Black Lives Matter and Antifa protesters, I might have been a little concerned.

One of the reasons I felt I'm being attacked is because I very honestly said I didn't feel threatened on January 6. I didn't. There was much more violence on the House side. There was no violence on the Senate side in terms of the chamber. The fact of the matter is, even calling it an insurrection, it wasn't.

You know, I condemn the breach. I condemn the violence, but to say there were thousands of armed insurrectionists that were breaching the Capitol, intent on overthrowing the government, is simply a false narrative. By and large, it was all -- it was peaceful protest except for there were a number of people, basically agitators that were with the crowd and breached the Capitol. And that's really the truth of what's happening here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Peaceful protests. So Brian Sicknick's family addressed those comments immediately, and D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer Mike Fanone, who was also in attendance, let them have it, we were told.

KEILAR: Now, compare that with Senator Susan Collins, who was one of the rare likely yes votes among Republicans, who explained why she is in favor of the commission.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): We owe it to the brave men and women who defended our lives that day, and in some cases did so at the cost of their lives.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And Senator Lisa Murkowski described her meeting with Sicknick's mother like this. Quote, "I started out the conversation by just saying, 'I'm heartsick that you are here. I am heartsick that you feel that you need to come and advocate to members of Congress, and we stand up and say the truth is hard, but the truth is necessary.'" That was her quote.

Perhaps the truth is necessary, but it is in short supply in the GOP right now, where the ongoing civil war between truth and Trump played out from one coast to the other last night. Former House Speaker Paul Ryan criticizing Trump's hold on the party as Congressman Matt Gaetz fully embraced Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL RYAN (R), FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: It was horrifying to see a presidency come to such a dishonorable and disgraceful end. So once again, we conservatives find ourselves at a crossroads.

And here's the reality that we have to face. If the conservative cause depends on the populist appeal of one personality or of second-rate imitations, then we're not going anywhere.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): This is Donald Trump's party, and I'm a Donald Trump Republican. We're not going back to the days of the Bushes and the McCains and the Romneys. Our way, America first, is the way forward for America.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: And Marjorie Taylor Greene appeared, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy may have condemned the Georgia congresswoman for her recent comments comparing mask wearing to the Holocaust. But clearly, that did not discourage her, because last night she was at it again, comparing Democrats to Nazis.

CNN's Martin Savidge is live in Rome, Georgia. Martin, what are her constituents telling you?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. You might think that, given all the controversy and especially the backlash over the statements Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene has made, comparing safety measures for coronavirus to the Nazis and the Holocaust, then she might be ready to move on. That is definitely not the case, and that message is not playing well here at home.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Marjorie Taylor Greene!

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Back home and not backing down.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): You know, Nazis were the National Socialist Party, just like the Democrats are now a national socialist party.

SAVIDGE(voice-over): Following her comparison of mask mandates to the Holocaust, Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene on Thursday night turned against what she called a little group in the Democratic Party, singling out representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York and Ilhan Abdullahi Omar of Minnesota.

GREENE: So we have actual United States members of Congress, the Jihad Squad. And there's a big group of them, by the way.

SAVIDGE(voice-over): Until now, Marjorie Taylor Greene has been brushing off criticism from her fellow Republicans. But can she ignore her own voters? Those we talked to wonder what was she thinking?

[06:10:05]

STEVE KARAKOS, ROME RESIDENT: The Holocaust was terrible, terrible, and why she said that, compared to that, I really don't know.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): At a diner in Rome, Georgia, Wayne White says he voted for Greene but that the congresswoman's comments have gone way too far.

SAVIDGE: What do you think?

WAYNE WHITE, ROME RESIDENT: I don't think anybody should be comparing anything to the Nazis and the Holocaust. That's a different world, just not appropriate.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): White says Greene has essentially become all talk and little action when it comes to representing the 14th District.

SAVIDGE: Would you vote for her again?

WHITE: No, no.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Nancy Jones said she's Republican but didn't vote for Greene. She calls the congresswoman's Holocaust comparison reprehensible.

NANCY JONES, ROME RESIDENT: And I'm ashamed that that lady is representing my district in Congress.

SAVIDGE: Why do you think she did it?

JONES: I think she's ignorant. She has no clue.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Before you start thinking Greene may be in trouble at home, you need to remember how she got to Washington, earning close to 75 percent of the vote in the 14th District, one of the reddest in the state.

Former President Trump calling her a rising Republican star, and she has ridden outrage all the way to the bank, raising $3.2 million in just the first quarter of the year.

Steve Karakos doesn't like her Holocaust talk, but he still likes Greene.

SAVIDGE: This wouldn't change your vote?

KARAKOS: Probably not because of what's going on with the left. I would probably vote for her again.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Robin Deal also voted for Greene and said the congresswoman has been taken out of context. We came prepared.

SAVIDGE: I can show you the tweet. And it's not just the tweet. There's been interviews, and maybe you've seen them. That first line right there: "Vaccinated employees get a vaccination logo just like the Nazi's [SIC] forced Jewish people to wear a gold star." It's actually a yellow star, but that's immaterial. She makes a direct contrast to a horrific murderous event in history.

ROBIN DEAL, ROME RESIDENT: Well, I don't necessarily agree with that statement, but I do agree with her right to say it.

GREENE: Thank you, Georgia.

SAVIDGE (voice-over): Like many other Greene supporters, Deal was concerned I would twist her words.

SAVIDGE: To compare safety measures for the coronavirus against Nazi Germany and the Holocaust, that is wrong.

DEAL: Again, I'm not saying I agree with what she said, but I understand the emotion of what she said it with. How about that? SAVIDGE: Would you vote for her again?

DEAL: Absolutely.

SAVIDGE: She still represents to you --

DEAL: I absolutely would. I absolutely would vote for her again. Yes, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE (on-camera): One of the things that we have found in this district is that you have to talk to dozens and dozens and dozens of people, some who love Greene, some who definitely don't.

But very few of them will actually openly talk on camera. The reason being, in this district they're afraid. Afraid of the backlash that they'll face, even if they support the congresswoman or if they oppose her, the backlash that could come from friends, from neighbors, co- workers, or even strangers. They believe it's safer to stay silent, and that is definitely a worrisome trend -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Martin Savidge in Rome, Georgia. Thank you so much.

Joining me now now, CNN political analyst April Ryan. She's a White House correspondent and Washington bureau chief for TheGrio. And CNN political commentator Alice Stewart. She is a Republican strategist and Ted Cruz's former communications director.

OK, Alice, to you first. I mean, what do you think of the congresswoman's comments? Here she is, going on and on again about Democrats being Nazis.

ALICE STEWART, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: It's despicable. Look, my grandmother lived in her district. I spent many a childhood in that district, and I am encouraged to see many of those people speaking up, saying that they disagree with what she says.

Look, first of all, Israel is our greatest ally in the Middle East. And second of all, what she said about the Holocaust and the Jewish people is -- is just ridiculous. And it's factually inaccurate.

She's talking about face masks, which are meant to be safety and security, comparing that to these yellow stars, which are about separation and persecution of Jews in one of the most horrific areas of our history.

She's not only uneducated, she's simply wrong on this; and she owes the Jewish community an apology.

And what kills me is the fact that she continues to say this. She needs to stop talking about this. She needs to apologize. And she needs to go back to talking about what people in that district and the people Georgia care about, which is conservative values, fiscal responsibility, limited government, and taking it to the Biden administration. And stop this nonsense and horrific talk about the Holocaust.

KEILAR: Well, what's going to stop her? Because you see her leadership rebuking her comments. And she comes out, endorses a tweet that calls the leader of her conference a feckless "C"-word, and nothing happens.

APRIL RYAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Nothing happens. You know why? Because she has power. Her power means money. Her ignorance, her words that assault our eyes translates into this fundraising machine that she has become.

She is now, in a lot of eyes, the female version of Donald Trump. She is the face of the Trump party, the Republican Party that's now divided. She has caused a rift. She's caused people to try to figure out how to handle this as they're trying to figure out in that party what to do, how to move forward.

And at the end of the day, she is a woman who has harassed, who has stalked members of Congress. You can't do that in public. But she is doing that on Capitol Hill. She is now talking about -- or using symbols and words about a community that had an atrocity that is still hurting and she is reinjuring, retraumatizing.

She needs to be brought in by the Republican leadership and try to be reined in if they can. Because she, her words are causing people to hurt. And she's gathering -- even though there are some people in the working-class community that she represents. They're still people who are coming to her, and there are also people who are hurting. It's causing a greater divide.

KEILAR: I want to play something that Matt Gaetz said that I would just add. Republican leaders are doing nothing, because in order to come down on Marjorie Taylor Greene, they have to inflict. They have to go through a little pain themselves. They're not willing to do it. It's very clear. There's no profile.

RYAN: They come down on her. They're coming down on Donald Trump, as well, for the same things that --

KEILAR: It's going to hurt them, and they won't stand for that.

OK. Let's listen to Matt Gaetz, embattled congressman facing, perhaps, some legal woes, on a tear last night about the real meaning of the Second Amendment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GAETZ: We have a Second Amendment in this country, and I think we have an obligation to use it. The Second Amendment -- this is a little history lesson for all the fake news media. The Second Amendment is not about -- it's not about hunting. It's not about recreation. It's not about sports. The Second Amendment is about maintaining within the citizenry the ability to maintain an armed rebellion against the government if that becomes necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP) KEILAR: He's a clown, but is what he is saying -- I mean, five months after an armed insurrection. Should we be worried here when he's staying stuff like this?

STEWART: That's nonsense talk. Clearly in Georgia, talk about the Second Amendment is very popular. They do support the right to bear arms.

But look, the reality is he and -- Greene and Gaetz are grifters of the Republican Party. There they are at their event last night, in front of tens and tens of screaming fans, but they are the fringe of the Republican Party. They --

(CROSSTALK)

STEWART: They represent -- they represent Donald Trump, but Donald Trump lost. We lost the House and the Senate because of that type of language.

What we need to get back to is more of the Reagan-like policies and focus on policies and not personalities. It's the personalities that lost us these -- these leadership positions. We need to get away from that.

RYAN: So a couple of things in that. One, you saw Paul Ryan last night at the Reagan Foundation, and Gaetz never even mentioned Reagan, the party of Reagan.

But at the end of the day, you talk about those are grifters. Those were grifters who went up on the Hill on January 6. Those were grifters. At least 35,000 of them went through the magnetometer, the Secret Service magnetometer on January 6 at the Ellipse to hear the president talk about, I'm going to go with you, and he didn't.

Then you had a number, a large-scale number that did not go through the magnetometer, that had backpacks, OK? We don't know what was in those backpacks. And there were tens of thousands of grifters that converged on the Hill.

And you hear people like that saying -- like Matt Gaetz talking these things. People who are in power that people believe know what they're talking about. They incite things like what happened on January 6 as Republicans were also running down the hallway with Democrats to go to safety.

STEWART: Which is all the more reason why we need to have this January 6 commission, find out how this happened, who called them there, what the potential police shortcomings were, and what we can do to make sure this doesn't happen again. We need to look into it.

But what we need for the Republicans moving forward is we need to keep the Trump supporters and we also need to bring back on board the ones we lost. We need to keep the Reagan-style Republicans that focus on policies and not personalities.

RYAN: You know what? We need truth. We need truth. The bottom line, we need truth.

STEWART: Absolutely.

RYAN: We need truth, because there are so many lies being told. And people are being ginned up. And it's going to cause more pain and more hurt and more death and destruction.

KEILAR: You guys, thank you for coming on.

I will say it does not seem that they're fringe anymore. The numbers are large, and the folks that are adhering and just, you know, placating them, the numbers are bigger than people who are, you know, sticking to Reagan values.

RYAN: They're not just players (ph) anymore. That's right. They're not just fringe people (ph).

KEILAR: April and Alice, we could talk about this all day, but I just -- and maybe we will later. Really appreciate having you on.

RYAN: Thank you.

KEILAR: Breaking news, the U.S. under attack. Russia hacking U.S. Agencies again just weeks before the summit between President Biden and Vladimir Putin.

BERMAN: Plus, new this morning, one of the reasons the president directed an aggressive investigation into the origins of the coronavirus pandemic. The U.S. reportedly has a treasure trove of evidence that could solve the mystery. The reporter who broke this story joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:25:01]

BERMAN: Breaking overnight, a stunning escalation in Russia's cyberwar against the United States, just weeks ahead of President Biden's summit with Vladimir Putin.

"The New York Times" reports this morning that "Hackers linked to Russia's main intelligence agency surreptitiously seized an email system used by the State Department's international aid agency to burrow into the computer networks of human rights groups and other organizations of the sort that have been critical of President Vladimir Putin."

Microsoft detected the hack and said it believes the attacks are ongoing.

Joining me now, White House and national security correspondent for "The New York Times," who broke this story, David Sanger. He's also a political and national security analyst.

David, I woke up to this. This seems like a big deal to me. We are under attack by Russian intelligence. And not only that, not only are they burrowed into emails used by the State Department, but it comes after the Biden administration punished Russia to a certain extent and before this proposed summit. This seems brazen, and cheeky, and deliberate.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: That's because it's brazen, cheeky, and deliberate. I mean, what's going on here is a really steady escalation of takes (ph). You've seen it in the ransomware attacks, which are not usually state-sponsored. But it was just a few weeks ago the Colonial Pipeline got hit by a Russian- based ransomware group, and that's what shut down that gasoline flow up the East Coast and set up those lines.

What we've also seen, though, is a new tactic by the Russians, one in which they get into the supply chain of software that's used by federal agencies, by companies. And the whole concept, John, is simply to get into these agencies by going around the government networks themselves, being in the software, which means you can never trust your computer system.

BERMAN: I mean, President Biden sanctioned -- there were sanctions for the SolarWinds attack. He didn't do as much as he could have, but he said, well, because he didn't want to go too far.

But this is Russia to me saying, you know, Ha-ha, you know, we're doing it, and we're doing it more. I mean, will this affect the meeting between President Biden and Vladimir Putin in a few weeks?

SANGER: It will certainly affect the content. I don't think that the president is going to call off a meeting because of this, because the reason that you meet with your adversaries is try to address problems like this, but you've gotten at the central issue here, which is, we're in the escalation trap.

Every time the Russians do something like this, or China, or Iran, or North Korea, but particularly in Russia's case, there's a debate that basically says, OK, what can we do? We can really fix them now and show them there's a price to be paid.

And then they get into a discussion of saying, Well, they're a nuclear-armed power. Our relationship's already poor. Let's not escalate too much.

And so when the president came out a month ago, he threw out, I think, about ten diplomats, mostly -- most of whom they believe were spies, did some economic sanctions, and said it was proportionate. Don't make me escalate.

Well, immediately, they come back with this, which tells me that in these short of war operations, the Russians are convinced that they can basically get away with this with very little price and erode away our confidence in the systems.

They are at this point. And, look, I think there's a lot more to discuss on this over the next few hours as we see how the White House responds. But David, you had another big break in "The Times" overnight that I

want to hear more about. Which is you say one of the reasons that President Biden announced this new aggressive -- more aggressive investigation into the origins of the pandemic and possibly whether or not the coronavirus leaked from a lab in Wuhan was because there was this treasure trove of, as you put it, data. Data that needs to be analyzed through computers and whatnot.

What exactly are we talking about here, and what could this yield?

SANGER: Well, the administration is being very close to the chest on the question of what's in this data.

What we think, because they keep saying they need to apply a lot of computational power to it, is that it has something to do with the movement of people, the movement of -- the early movement of the actual disease in Wuhan, and perhaps the movement of scientists and lab workers in and out of that Wuhan virology lab.

We -- This was an unexpected finding for us, John. I was expecting that they would say we're looking for more human sources inside the lab, and e I'm sure they are. But what they said was, we've got a mass of data that we think, if we do the correlations right, might help solve the mystery. They won't tell us what that data is.

BERMAN: Right. And they also don't say what it will solve one way or the other.

SANGER: That is true.

BERMAN: I think they just want to find out what the data -- it may say wasn't a lab leak, but it might point to something more in that direction.

SANGER: It might be inconclusive, which, you know, is probably the most likely outcome.

BERMAN: They just need to go through it.

All right. David Sanger, you've got a lot of stuff this morning. Thanks so much for joining us.