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Senate Republicans Likely to Block Bipartisan Commission to Investigate January 6th Riots; Former Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan Gives Speech on Current State of Republican Party; Representatives Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene Criticize Paul Ryan and Defend Former President Donald Trump; U.S. Under Attack: Russia Hacks System Used by U.S. Agency. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired May 28, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The argument that if they were to move forward with this, this would not be good politically for Republicans, they don't want this issue about January 6th, what happened, to be relitigated in the runup to the 2022 midterms where control of Congress is at stake. And that argument in particular has taken hold all across the Senate Republican Conference from the more moderate members to more conservative ones.

And that's one reason why we expect this to fail today even though this commission would be independent. It would be set up evenly between both sides. Both sides would have subpoena power if it were to go forward. But if it's blocked, Democrats will just take things in their own hands and launch an investigation almost certainly on their own on the House side. But all that has to play out once this key vote happens today, probably today. At that point, Republicans will block it and then the chips will fall where they may.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And Manu, I understand that something has really been bugging you lately. I want to -- come on. That was great.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: OK, OK, sorry, sorry. You're right.

KEILAR: Whatever, let's roll the tape. Let's roll this tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So am I going to be in the same block out of this, or can I take a break? OK. Oh! Oh, my God!

(LAUGHTER)

RAJU: What the hell? Do I have more on me?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't see any more.

RAJU: Are they in my hair?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, not in your hair. RAJU: Yes, that's right.

(LAUGHTER)

RAJU: Where are all these -- cicadas coming from?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: How do they get there into the -- where were you, in the Russell Rotunda, right?

RAJU: Yes.

KEILAR: What was going -- how do they even get in there. And gross, right?

RAJU: Yes. Look, the context here is important here. A couple minutes before that happened, there was actually another cicada that allegedly fell out of my pocket. And that happened as I was waiting to go on.

(LAUGHTER)

RAJU: Our producer Morgan Rimmer said a cicada just fell out of your pocket. And I saw it on the ground, and I was a bit stunned. And I was indoors. We had just come from outside about 30 minutes before interviewing Senator John Thune, and perhaps a cicada, one of those buggers jumped on me as I was running back into the Capitol.

And then I was preparing for the live shot, as you saw, and it crawled up, and I thought it was maybe my cord or the back of my neck. No, it was one of those buggers that was clawing at my neck. After we got the video, too, we were deciding what to do. Should I put this on social media or let it be, but everybody on our team said the world needs to see this. So we actually enlisted the help of our producers, Ted Barrett, his daughter, 15-year-old daughter Olivia to bleep out all my profanity to make sure they were PG-related that the family can enjoy.

But I've got to tell you, those things gross me out. But my five-year- old twins, Sonya and Sanjay, they love cicadas. All they do is talk about them. They put them on their hands. They're on the cicada research committee in their pre-k class in school. So I can tell you, they love the video. Me, maybe not so much.

BERMAN: Can I just say, I don't think I'm ever going to get over the fact that the first thing you said to us was, the context here is important.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: About the cicada attack, the context here is important, as if we were talking about the background behind a bill before the U.S. Senate. Manu, where do you find the strength in that moment when you were under attack?

RAJU: It was hard.

(LAUGHTER)

RAJU: It was hard. I held back my tears. But I was only able to go to sleep because I was at the Capitol until probably 11:00, midnight or so and up at about 2:00 a.m. But otherwise it might have been a little bit hard to fall asleep after such a horrific incident.

KEILAR: Horrific. Look, I think that that bug, that cicada just knew that you're very informed, and he or she wanted some information about the fili-bugster (ph) or the insect structure bill that Congress may soon be considering. They knew you were the guy, Manu.

RAJU: Or wanted his or her moment on live TV, which would have happened. We were waiting for Joe Biden to finish speaking. So if he had finished a couple minutes moments earlier, it could have been that bug's moment in the sun.

BERMAN: My other favorite, by the way, in addition to you just saying the context here is important, is you, like any God-fearing male television correspondent, is it in my hair? Just please, God, not the hair! Anything.

(LAUGHTER)

BERMAN: Like crawl in my ear, like bore into my brain, but if it's in my hair, then we have issues.

[08:05:01]

RAJU: I could have sworn it was crawling on me up there. After I pulled it off, there was something going on up there. I don't know what it was.

KEILAR: You both have great hair. It makes so much sense.

BERMAN: Manu Raju, we are glad you're OK. That's all we can say. Be well. Godspeed. Be safe when you go back up to the Capitol today.

(LAUGHTER)

RAJU: I will. I'll wear a face shield or something.

BERMAN: So former Republican House Speaker Paul Ryan at the Reagan Library last night trying to make the case against Trumpism only to be drowned out by a pair of Trump apprentices speaking thousands of miles away. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAUL RYAN, (R) FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: Once again, we conservatives find ourselves at a crossroads.

REP. MATT GAETZ, (R-FL): Taking advice on party building from Paul Ryan would be like taking the advice on how to interact with your in- laws from Meghan Markle.

RYAN: If the conservative cause depends on the populist appeal of one personality or of second rate imitations, then we're not going anywhere.

GAETZ: This is Donald Trump's party, and I'm a Donald Trump Republican.

RYAN: It was horrifying to see a presidency come to such a dishonorable and disgraceful end.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE, (R-GA): We've got to clear something up. Who won the presidential race on November 3rd for Georgia?

RYAN: Voters looking for Republican leaders want to see independence and mettle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would it not be better for Republican politicians, for Republican supporters to move on and to look forward, even to look forward and ahead to Trump running in 2024, instead of keep on looking backward?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, because we think this was too great of a crime, and we just can't let it go. We're not going to let it go.

RYAN: They will not be impressed by the set of yes-men and flatterers flocking to Mar-a-Lago.

GREENE: Nazis were the National Socialist party, just like the Democrats are now a national socialist party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't need me to tell you, a lot of people don't like Greene.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's OK, because you know why, a lot of people didn't like Jesus Christ.

RYAN: Sometimes these skirmishes are just creations of outraged peddlers detached from reality and not worth anybody's time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Actually, I don't know exactly what was said about the holocaust. As to what she said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She compared covid restrictions to the holocaust.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I can understand that with Mengele, the Nazi, and how he used children and people to experiment with experimental drugs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you're talking about the vaccine?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Again, I can't even with those comments she made about Josef Mengele there.

Joining us, CNN senior political commentator David Axelrod. To I think the bigger issue of Paul Ryan. When I watch Paul Ryan juxtaposed with Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene, I keep wondering if Paul Ryan is bringing a knife to a gunfight here, and whether it even is a fight, whether there is actually a battle for the soul of the Republican Party anymore?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there's a battle, but it's pretty one-sided. And Ryan approached this in a typically temperate way, and he never mentioned Trump in his remarks. He kind of went right for the capillary there. And you've got these other guys out there in their clown car traveling the country, and their great inspiration is that if you light yourself on fire, people will come. If you light yourself on fire, people will cover us, and we will profit from this.

And so even as many, many people are outraged by what Marjorie Taylor Greene said, she is -- she's perfectly happy because she's drawing crowds, she's raising money. We woke up this morning to a headline about a poll that said one in -- 14 percent of Americans, one in four Republicans subscribe to the teachings, if you want to call them that, of this bizarre cult, the QAnon cult, which spawned her as a political candidate. People who believe that the wildfires in California were caused by space lasers controlled by Jews. This is her movement. And 25 percent of Republicans say they believe in the basic precepts of QAnon.

The Republican Caucus in Congress, it took five days for Republican leaders to condemn her remarks, likening mask wearing to the holocaust because they are fearful of the political power of those folks, and Trump, who has embraced her. So Paul Ryan's speech was right in substance about this, but it means not one whit to those folks, and they're happy to get the attention.

KEILAR: It's like this -- it's this virulent strain of Republicanism that is becoming the dominant variant.

[08:10:01]

It's overtaking the others. And it has so much energy, there is this sense of victimization, and it meets this call to arms as well. I want to listen to something that Gaetz said yesterday about the Second Amendment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MATT GAETZ, (R-FL): We have a Second Amendment in this country, and I think we have an obligation to use it. The Second Amendment, this is a little history lesson for all the fake news media. The Second Amendment is not about -- it's not about hunting. It's not about recreation. It's not about sports. The Second Amendment is about maintaining within the citizenry the ability to maintain an armed rebellion against the government if that becomes necessary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: He's seeing this five months after an armed insurrection. This is idiotic, what he's saying. And I think we could be outraged by it all day long. How do you combat that, though? How do Democrats and Republicans, David, combat this?

AXELROD: Yes. No, it's a really good question. First of all, Republicans in the Congress can combat it by saying you are not caucusing with us, Marjorie Taylor Greene. You, Matt Gaetz, are not caucusing with us. You were elected. You are entitled to be here. You are not entitled to be in the Republican caucus.

By not doing that, the Republican leaders are acknowledging that the words that they speak, the outrages that they engage in are part of our philosophy, that they are a legitimate part of our caucus. Adam Kinzinger has suggested that they oust Marjorie Taylor Greene from the caucus. And of course, that has met with deaf ears among the leaders there. That's one way to do it.

The other is, like I said, they feed on attention. And it would be -- here we are, and I understand why, but we're talking about them. And they are loving it. And this is Trump's inspiration. If you start a dumpster fire, people are going to stop and watch. And so there is this push and pull, you know. Do you want to shine a light on all of this, or do you turn away?

KEILAR: But look, they're going to be covered on Newsmax, OAN, FOX News with viewers that completely are buying into what they are hearing, and with news hosts who are reinforcing the crazy crap that they're saying.

AXELROD: Agreed, Brianna.

KEILAR: With so many outlets, there's really no way around it. It's so essential that we do know what they are saying because it's taking hold. But I just wonder, you talk about Republicans needing to stand up. How do they do that without signing their political death certificates?

AXELROD: Yes, well, and that's where Trump comes in because he's the big gun on that side. And he is -- he's made it clear. When he lays his hand on candidates or public officials, they have a kind of immunity because the Republican base still follows Trump.

But leadership, leadership means something. Leaders should be leaders. And at some point, the leaders have to stand up. We saw -- you're right. We saw what happened to Liz Cheney, and these are negative examples for people, and they send a message that if we dissent, we lose. But there is strength in numbers, and if more people stand up you can gain some momentum.

But the reality is that this populist rightwing base is the base of the Republican Party right now. Paul Ryan does not represent majority thinking within the Republican Party. And that is the reality right now.

BERMAN: And of course, we're having this discussion on a day when the Republicans will block a bipartisan commission to look into the January 6th insurrection. I don't think that should be lost on anyone. I think this is all connected and part of the larger discussion. Axe, great to see you. AXELROD: Great to see you guys, thanks.

KEILAR: Breaking overnight, a stunning escalation in Russia's cyberwar against the U.S. I's coming just weeks before the Biden-Putin summit. "The New York Times" reports that, quote, "Hackers linked to Russia's main intelligence agency surreptitiously seized an email system used by the State Department's International Aid Agency to burrow into the human networks of human rights groups and other organizations of the sort that have been critical of President Vladimir Putin." Microsoft detected this hack, and they believe that the attacks are ongoing. They say this is the work of the same Russian hackers who launched last winter's SolarWinds attack.

Joining us now is CNN's Jim Sciutto, and in Moscow, we have CNN's Matthew Chance. Jim, what is the latest here?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Listen, a couple of big points here. One, after all these years and through multiple administrations, the U.S. has not figured out how to protect itself from these hacks of the U.S. government, major U.S. agencies and also hasn't figure how to deter Russia from carrying them out, right?

The Obama administration, Trump administration, now Biden administration tried sanctions on individuals and entities, strong statements, cooperation with allies, et cetera, and Russia is still carrying out the attacks. You know, they are flailing, right, in terms of what to do that makes a difference here.

The second point which -- what is unique and particularly alarming about this attack is that Russia was looking for information about critics of its administration, human rights groups, et cetera, that the U.S. is in contact with and we've seen how Russia handles its critics, right? They try to poison Alexey Navalny. They sent him to a prison camp.

You have this Belarusian case, of course, an ally of Russia, taking a guy out of commercial flight. People get thrown out of windows in Russia. So, it's a significant target in this attack and a significant vulnerability for the kinds of people who were targeted.

KEILAR: You know, John Berman has been calling this cheeky, the way this attack was carried out because obviously it was going to come to light. It's like it was designed to come to light and very publicly. And so, Matthew, I wonder --

SCIUTTO: They don't care.

KEILAR: They don't.

The timing of this, Matthew, they are -- Biden and Putin are scheduled to be meeting very soon.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No, I mean, it's astonishing, isn't it? I mean, as if the meeting between Biden and Putin wasn't going to be fraught enough with a list as long as your arm when it comes to issues they disagree on, you can add this now. This latest hack to the issues between the two presidents that they have to discuss and will expect -- I expect will clash on.

I think what's striking to me about this latest revelation is the fact that, according to Microsoft, the hacking was going on within the last week, within the last couple of days. It was only last month that the Bden administration issued tough sanctions on Russia for the SolarWinds hacking, expelled ten diplomats. Put economic sanctions on Russia. It sanctioned individuals and said we hope that behavior, you know, will now change.

Clearly just a couple of weeks before the summit, it's still going on.

KEILAR: Is it in jeopardy, Jim, the summit?

SCIUTTO: I don't think the summit is in jeopardy. They're both invested in this.

By the way, Joe Biden will want to establish a clear break from the Trump administration and Trump's Helsinki moment by calling Putin out, perhaps next to him at a joint press conference. That's part of the intention here of the summit.

The other point about this hack, this is not high level, high-tech stuff. Russia is using a trick they've used for years which is a spear phishing email. They send real looking but fake emails to members of USAID. They click on it. By clicking on it, Russia has free reign inside their computer systems.

It's how they got into John Podesta's emails in 2016. So, the old stuff is still working, and that's another problem here. We haven't figured out even how to -- how to hand the basic level attack from Russia, and that's a critical warning sign.

KEILAR: Yeah, it leaves the nation incredibly insecure.

Jim, Matthew, thank you to both of you.

Just ahead, the courageous final moments of one of the San Jose shooting victims helping others amid the gunfire that tragically took his life. His family will join us live.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, President Biden's plan to rebuild America's infrastructure. Republicans now have a counteroffer, but there's a catch.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:22:27]

BERMAN: A new story of heroism emerging from the rail yard shooting in San Jose, California. Family members say Taptejdeep Singh, one of the nine people killed Wednesday, is a hero, spending his final moments trying to keep his co-workers safe.

Taptejdeep was 36 years old. He was born in India and came to California with his parents about 17 years ago. He is survived by his wife and two small children, a 3-year-old son and a 1-year-old daughter.

Joining me is Taptejdeep's brother, Karman Gill, and his uncle, Sukhwant Singh Dhillon.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for being with us this morning. I am so sorry for your loss.

And, Karman, if I can, please just tell me about your brother.

KARMAN GILL, BROTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM TAPTEJDEEP SINGH: Thank you. Thank you for having us. My brother, I don't know if you've been on the news, it's on the news, whoever you speak to, first verse that come to mind is the empathy and his compassion toward people. His helpful nature and just how helpful he was in general and towards his last moment, it was that empathy towards people that he had along with his braveheart that he always had to save others.

His first reaction was to help as many as he can without worrying about his own life, without worrying about, I have to call my family. He was calling his colleagues. He was -- as I'm told by his co- workers, he was telling them to go hide and died fighting. He was a fighter, no matter where he was. He used to love playing outdoor sports, volleyball, cricket.

And even in the toughest time, I heard from other teammates, he used to play with that even in playing games, he used to be in until the last minute. We can win. No matter how things seemed tough, he'd also be until the last moment. He would have that positive attitude that, keep trying. We can win. And that's who he was.

And he's from a family -- he's a responsible person at this house where me as a 30-year-old behaves like his kid, like a teenager because I had such a responsible brother who always took care of everything and I never had a worry of the world.

[08:25:10]

I never had to worry about the adult responsibilities in this world because he was there. He was my lifeline no matter the subject, no matter the advice, he just always knew how to help or he would figure out how to help. And I think it's a little comforting to know that's what he was exactly doing his last moments of his life as well. And he helped save some lives and those families can sleep in peace knowing their loved ones are with them.

BERMAN: It's an incredible legacy. It's a painful legacy. He died fighting. He died helping. And I know that may be comforting, but I know also it's very hard.

Sukhwant, if you can hear me, when you heard that he was making calls, trying to save lives until the very end, I wonder what you thought.

SUKHWANT SINGH DILLON, UNCLE TO SHOOTING VICTIM TAPTEJDEEP SINGH: My nephew was very brave, and he was a social worker. He always tried to help the other people. So, actually when I was there in San Jose yesterday, I heard -- I see a woman who had tag in his neck, and he lay down (ph) -- Taptejdeep saved my life. Because of him, I'm alive right now.

I'm very proud of my nephew. Even though he lost his life, he saved almost 45 lives. So I'm very proud of him.

BERMAN: Karman, very quickly, the children, 3 years old, 1 year old. How are they doing today?

GILL: The 1-year-old, you know, does not -- I don't think she'll comprehend, but the 3-year-old still has a good memory. He doesn't sleep without his father.

My brother was always stubborn. Sometimes whenever he's, like I said, he's always helping people. He's on a call. He would be on call for hours. You know, whoever he's speaking to, and then the moment he gets a call from his son, he knew he had to get back home, because he wouldn't sleep without him.

Just yesterday, his son was asking, where is he? And we just had to tell him that he's gone for a vacation, and, you know, he'll be back with us. So I can't imagine what it would be like for them when they start growing up and start looking for their father on every event, on their graduations to see their dad. I can't even imagine what that's going to be like.

In the morning I woke up, sometimes he used to leave for work very early when I'm -- I'm here. So I used to work Eastern Time zone hours. Sometimes I would be up early. Would just peek in the door and he always let me know, hey, I'm going to be home around 2:00 or I'm going to be home around 4:00. Let's go for a walk or let's go for a hike or, you know, let's watch a movie together today.

He always loved bringing everybody together. If he wanted to go on vacation, he didn't want it to be just him. He would call up every family member, every (INAUDIBLE) and say, hey, let's make a plan. Let's go somewhere all together.

With friends he would always ask, whenever we used to play, hey, let's go do this activity together as well. Let's go running together. That -- it's going to be -- nobody can fill who he was. It just hasn't sinked why yet that he's gone.

I woke up in the morning and felt like everything was normal until I walked up and realized, he's always loud when he wakes up. He doesn't sleep too quiet. So missing that --

BERMAN: For 30 years, you had him. And I know that his memory will live on within you. May his memory be a blessing.

And I know you will be there for the children going forward.

Gentlemen, thank you both very much for being with us. Karman Gill and Sukhwant Singh Dhillon, we're so sorry.