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GOP Counters Biden's Infrastructure Plan; Reality Check on 1/6 Commission; Salima Koroma is Interviewed about "Dreamland." Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 28, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Going forward.

Gentlemen, thank you both very much for being with us, Karman Gill, Sukhwant Singh Dhillon. We're so sorry for the loss. We're so story.

KARMAN GILL, BROTHER OF SHOOTING VICTIM TAPTEJDEEP SINGH: Thank you for taking this to the rest of the world, for showing them the hero he was and the fighter he was.

BERMAN: The 17th --

SUKHWANT DINGH DHILLON, UNCLE TO SHOOTING VICTIM TAPTEJDEEP SINGH: Thank you, CNN -- thank you, CNN, for show up and share our grief with the -- all your audience. Thank you very much.

BERMAN: The world is thinking and grieve with you.

The 17th mass shooting in America this week.

Back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Senate Republicans made a $928 billion counteroffer to President Joe Biden's sweeping infrastructure proposal, but that falls short of the $1 trillion that Senate Republicans said Biden was open to during their White House negotiations.

Let's talk about this now with the former chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers under President Donald Trump, Kevin Hassett, is with us.

Kevin, thank you. Good morning to you.

KEVIN HASSETT, FORMER TRUMP ECONOMIC ADVISER: Good morning.

KEILAR: What do you think of this price tag?

[08:35:03] HASSETT: Right. I think that Republicans are negotiating, but they're actually pretty close to the finish line. I think both sides want to accomplish an infrastructure bill before the summer break. And I think that Democrats are trying to get Republicans to play along so that they can keep their reconciliation card (ph), you know, that trick where you can get something through without exposing it to the filibuster for when they come back in the fall. And so I think all the cards are aligned for there to be a bill about a trillion dollars and that that's probably going to happen right before they go home in August.

KEILAR: OK, so you're optimistic, but there's still key stumbling blocks, including the pay-fors. What are the pay-fors? That's how you pay for it, right? And Republicans want to pay for it with unused COVID relief funds. So that is money, though, that targets the middle class. Yes, it's unemployment funds that Republican governors are refusing to accept, but this is middle class earmarked money. Do you think that's a good idea?

HASSETT: Well, I guess the question is, what do you do with that money if the states don't take it, right, because it's been allocated for one thing but it's not going to be put to that use. And so I think it's one of those things, it's one of those details that they'll argue about, that they'll probably split the difference on. But, in the end, you know, this bill is probably not going to be paid for really and they'll have enough votes to get it through anyway.

And so there will be, you know, some tipping of the cap in the direction of fiscal responsibility. But, you know, we're so deep in the hole. You know, government spending relative to GDP this year is probably going to be about what it was in 1943. The deficit's probably going to be, you know, humongous, maybe, you know, 20 percent of GDP. And, you know, by the time they're done.

And so, anyway, so the, you know, the trillion dollar stimulus bill is actually relatively small compared to everything else that's happened. And the challenge ahead is to sort of restore ourselves to a sustainable path. And that's going to require a lot of bipartisan cooperative thinking.

KEILAR: Do you think it should be more, though? Do you think it should be more to be truly effective and also knowing that polls show that, actually, Americans are open to infrastructure being more broadly defined as Democrats are defining it and Republicans are opposed to. Do you think it should be more to really make the difference?

HASSETT: I think that they're -- if you -- if you drive, you know, anywhere on the East Coast, you can see that there are lots of, you know, crumbling bridges and so on and so there definitely is room for lots of infrastructure spending. But it needs to be infrastructure spending.

And the reason is the other thing that's going on in the economy right now, which is inflation is really taking off. If you look at the last couple of months, it was about 7 percent two months ago and now it's probably about 10 percent at an annual rate. And, yes, it might slow down from there, that's what Secretary Yellen says, but inflation right now is taking off for, you know, very simple, economic reasons. We've given people lots of cash and so demand is soaring but supply hasn't kept up and supply hasn't kept up because, you know, workers, a lot of them are staying on the sidelines. The workers who were out of the labor force tended to be lower wage workers and less productive workers. So even when they come back, it's really hard to keep up with the skyrocketing demand.

And so if you look at, you know, the price of anything, even like in the last CPI, milk, bananas, you know, those prices were skyrocketing, energy, gasoline. And so if we throw lots more demand on the fire right now, then there's a real risk that we go back to '70s-style inflation.

KEILAR: OK, I want to ask you about something Jamie Dimon, the JP Morgan Chase CEO, said. He was asked during a House Financial Services Committee hearing yesterday about all of these job openings, 8.1 million job openings. And this is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JP MORGAN CHASE: I think the reasons are manyfold, including, you know, some of the unemployment insurance, including the fact that our schools haven't reopened up, including the fact that people actually have a lot of money and they don't particularly feel like going back to work.

But I would -- I think you should rest assured, I think we're going to see a completely booming economy, a lot of people going back to work and hopefully it will continue for quite a while.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: You agree with him?

HASSETT: Yes, I mean, right now, for the first half of the year, the economy will be growing at a very high rate. The question is what happens in the second half of the year, especially if the inflation we've seen in the last couple of months makes the Fed, you know, change its policy course.

And so I think that, actually, for me, the turning point that I'm looking to is in the fall, President Biden has an objective of basically constraining supply even more with corporate tax hikes and other tax hikes. And if you push supply down, while you're pushing demand up, it's a recipe for inflation like we haven't seen maybe, you know, ever. And so I think that there's an opportunity, however, for Democrats, which is that they recognize, if they see the inflation, that demand and supply are mismatched, then what they could is they could hold off on their tax plans in the fall, maybe do things to increase supply and that could maybe take the pressure off the Fed.

But I think that Jamie's right. You know, when I was back in the White House last year, we studied basically labor force participation. And I don't think the UI benefits had a big effect on it last year because basically people were told they couldn't go to work. The big effect was really the schools being closed. And the schools, thankfully, and the summer camps are opening up. And so there is some chance that we'll get more labor force participation going forward.

[08:40:00]

KEILAR: One more question on this infrastructure negotiation before I let you go here.

You know, even you said, look at all these projects that need to be funded. You can spend the money, right? You could spend even more than Republicans are offering here.

Why were some Republicans warm to a $2 trillion infrastructure plan when Trump proposed it, but now when it's Biden, you know, they're not so into it?

HASSETT: Well, I think it depends also, right, and you even mentioned, you know, what's in the bill. And so, you know, $2 trillion spent one way is different from $2 trillion spent specifically on infrastructure. So I think that there's a debate that they're (INAUDIBLE) proposing to expand the definition --

KEILAR: But they could propose the bigger number -- they could propose the bigger number with the priorities that they prefer, right?

HASSETT: No -- yes, they could do that. But the problem is that we are looking at government spending to GDP that's north of where it was in 1943. And so that we really do have to be anxious about how we get out of this mess because if you -- if you cut government spending back to, say, where it should be, about 21 percent, that's a 10 percent cut in government spending. If that happens next year, you're going to see a massive recession next year.

KEILAR: Yes, well, I don't know that --

HASSETT: And so we've basically got to ramp down slowly.

KEILAR: I hear, but, look, government spending is --

HASSETT: And it -- but we've spent so much that I think it's right for people to be anxious about it.

KEILAR: The government spending isn't something that just happened, to be clear. We've been watching this unfold for --

HASSETT: No, I'm not blaming it on either party.

KEILAR: Yes. It's just the reality, right?

HASSETT: I'm saying it as an economic problem.

KEILAR: Yes. No, certainly.

HASSETT: Right. That's right.

KEILAR: Kevin, appreciate your perspective here. Kevin Hassett, former Trump economic adviser. Thanks so much.

HASSETT: Great. Thanks.

KEILAR: Good morning to you.

If Republicans kill a special commission to investigate the insurrection today, they're letting the terrorists win. We have a CNN "Reality Check," next.

KEILAR: And a look back at the thriving black community that was violently and senselessly wiped away almost 100 years ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:45:43]

KEILAR: New this morning, GOP Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska publicly breaking with Republican Leader Mitch McConnell, saying Republicans' push to block the bipartisan January 6th commission bill is shortsighted and that she wants American democracy to, quote, endure beyond just one election.

As John Avlon tells us in our "Reality Check," Republicans blocking this commission is nothing short of letting the terrorists win.

John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: After the attacks of 9/11, you often heard Republicans say that if we let fear change the way we live, then the terrorists will win.

Almost 20 years later, an attack on our Capitol has flipped the script. The forces of fear that underlie the big lie have derailed a bipartisan investigation that would normally follow national cataclysms like 9/11.

And the 9/11 Commission is explicitly the model for the January 6th commission legislation. The bills use similar structure and language. A bipartisan group of civic leaders are supposed to study the causes and make recommendations to prevent future acts of terrorism.

Yes, the legislation refers to the storming of the Capitol as a domestic terrorist attack following the lead of FBI Director Chris Wray, who also called it domestic terrorism.

By trying to kill the bipartisan commission via filibuster, Republicans are letting the terrorists win. And the half-ass rationalizations they're using to justify it show how quickly they'll sell out to situational ethics. Remember, Mitch McConnell was furious after the Capitol attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): American citizens attacked their own government. They used terrorism to try to stop a specific piece of domestic business they did not like.

There's no question, none, that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: But now he's back using Trump's signature deflect and project playbook, accusing Democrats of pushing the commission as a, quote, purely political exercise. That's BS. McConnell is pressuring senators to vote no as a personal favor because new information could hurt Republicans in next year's midterms. That is the essence of party over country.

And other GOP justifications are just as cynical. They say the commission is slanted and unbalanced. That's absurd. It's a bipartisan commission. House Democrats explicitly addressed three conditions that Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy asked for in this letter, an equal split in appointees between parties, co-equal subpoena power and no predetermined conclusions. But when McCarthy got the fact-finding commission he requested, he turned his back, fast.

McConnell says the commission would be duplicative but the commission is required to avoid unnecessary duplication. So no wonder Republican senators can't get their stories straight.

Missouri's Roy Blunt says it's too soon to do an investigation, while Maine's Susan Collins is worried it will take too long. And despite the fact the report's mandated by the end of the year, she wants it to disband 30 days earlier. Likewise, her complaint that Democrats could hire all the staff is just bogus. Listen to Republican co-author of the commission, John Katko.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN KATKO (R-NY): Another charge I heard was that the commission could be controlled by partisan staff hired unilaterally by the commission chair. That is simply not true.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: So who are you going to believe? Republican senators looking for excuses or the Republican congressman who actually wrote the bill?

Killing this bipartisan commission is like 9/11 -- like letting 9/11 truthers derail the 9/11 Commission. And that would have been unthinkable. But it's where we are right now. Fear of the base that believes the big lie is causing U.S. senators to abandon their patriotic common sense. As Senator Joe Manchin said, they do not believe the truth will set you free so they continue to live in fear.

The conditions that created the attack on our Capitol are still controlling the Republican Party. And so we must confront the fact that with a few honorable exceptions, bipartisanship itself has become a partisan virtue. Make no mistake, this is a vote that will live in infamy, but we cannot let fear change the way we live. We've got to defend the integrity of our democracy. [08:50:01]

And to do that, we cannot let the terrorists win.

And that's your "Reality Check."

BERMAN: John Avlon, thank you very much.

Up next, the burning of Black Wall Street. A CNN film explores what really happened on that horrific day one century ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: One hundred years ago, almost to the day, the thriving Greenwood District of Tulsa, Oklahoma, also known as Black Wall Street, where black business, art and culture flourished, became the center of one of the deadliest and most destructive race massacres in American history.

Now, the new CNN film, "Dreamland: The Burning of Black Wall Street," takes a revealing look at what really happened on that tragic day a century ago, the damage inflicted, and what is being done now to try to restore Greenwood to its former glory.

This is a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The Tulsa Tribune" published a series of inflammatory articles --

ON SCREEN TEXT: Rabid Negro is Killed by Police in Self Defense.

Negro Slays White Man in Roadhouse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That really fomented hostility in the white community against the black community.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Little Africa is All in a Turmoil.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tulsa was a powder keg or a tinderbox needing only something to set the community alight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: And joining us now is the director of "Dreamland: The Burning of Black Wall Street," Salima Koroma, with us.

Salima, I cannot wait to see this. You know, this is something that has gained a lot of attention here somewhat recently. And I wonder what drew you to the story of Greenwood and the Tulsa Massacre?

SALIMA KOROMA, DIRECTOR, "DREAMLAND: THE BURNING OF BLACK WALL STREET": What draws me to Greenwood and this story, you know, this story is about the massacre, this event that happened, one of the worst events of racial violence in this country to happen. [08:55:03]

But it's also about this place called Greenwood that was this black utopia that existed in America and that not a lot of people know about. And it is important that we know about the massacre that happened and that we're learning about 100 years later. And I think it's just as important to understand and to know about, again, this black utopia that was created by black people in the 1920s.

BERMAN: Tell us more about that. Then tell us about Greenwood in the 1920s.

KOROMA: Sure. So Greenwood, which is called -- they call it Black Wall Street. Greenwood is an enclave, a black neighborhood outside of Tulsa. And in the 1920s, you know, this is like a booming, magical era for America and for Tulsa. It's actual -- an actual oil boom.

And, you know, Oklahoma itself, at the time, had the most all-black towns in America. Oklahoma was like the promised land. It was like the dreamland. And Greenwood was a place where actually because of segregation black people were almost forced to create this place. You know, oil money was -- you know, oil was booming and this community of lawyers and doctors and journalists and it was a self-sufficient neighborhood in Tulsa.

KEILAR: I mean I think that is still the dream, you know, still the dream for many black communities.

You know, I think a lot of people didn't necessarily know about the Tulsa massacre until about a year ago when the former president was scheduling a rally there. I think it was on the day or close to the day. And it was seen as insensitive, obviously. And it was scheduled because there was a lack of awareness of this history. So I think it's so essential that you are teaching people about this.

What is Greenwood like today?

KOROMA: It's funny when we talk about Greenwood, we talk about the massacre. As it -- you know, it was 100 years ago. But the effects are still felt 100 years later.

So, today, what Greenwood used to be was this thriving black community and it was 30 blocks of black businesses and homes and 10,000 people living in this place. Again, I say this, you know, almost this bubble, this -- again, black utopia. And, you know, 100 years later, you have -- it was destroyed, but also you had urban renewal, which dislocated a lot of people. And now there are only under ten black businesses in Greenwood now. So it's only a block. It used to be 30. And now it's not what it once was.

So that's what Greenwood is like today. And it's not -- it's not the greatest. But, you know what, it's interesting you bring up, you know, the former -- the former president. You know, as I was editing this, you know, not a lot of people know this story, but the catalyst, the reason -- one of the reasons why this happened, it was actually an incident that happened between a young black boy and a young white girl. That was the catalyst. And what you had was an incident that happened and you had a mob go to the courthouse. A white mob go to the courthouse and they really stormed the courthouse. And I was actually editing this scene around January 6th, and it was very surreal to see the parallels 100 years later.

KEILAR: Yes, no doubt. And, look, Salima, I think it's so wonderful that you're bringing this story, this important history for people to learn about. This is the all-new CNN film "Dreamland: The Burning of Black Wall Street." It's going to premiere Monday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only on CNN.

Salima, thank you for joining us this morning.

KOROMA: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: It is such important history.

So the days following George Floyd's death, millions of people across the country and around the world took to the streets to protest police brutality and racial inequality. Even those who didn't take part in the demonstration were profoundly affected by them. This week's CNN Hero salutes a health care consultant in Washington, D.C., when peaceful protesters were targeted by police in riot gear right outside his home, he made a split-second decision that changed his life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAHUL DUBEY, CNN HERO: That night of June 1st, what I saw were people confused. I saw fear. They were trapped on the street trying to get home. And you hear this loud bang and I saw the clubs coming out and pepper spray flying everywhere. All I could do was just fling open the door and like, get in the house.

They were getting pepper sprayed as they were running up. It was pure chaos. They were washing their eyes out with milk, baking soda.

[09:00:02]

Everyone was tending to each other. Protesting in an organized way was not my thing. I would hear of these verdicts. And yes, I would say to myself, oh, my God, that's terrible. And then I would still go to dinner.

But to see the atrocities show up on your front door, if people like me don't open the door, then really, who will?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: And CNN's coverage continues right now.