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Bill Taylor is Interviewed about the Biden/Putin Summit; Stacey Abrams is Interviewed about Voting Legislation; Support for Infrastructure Framework; Weekly Jobless Claims. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 17, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00]

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States is there.

We have new challenges. And we have a Russia that is not acting in a way that is consistent with what we had hoped. And as well as China.

Every world leader here that's a member of NATO that spoke today, and most of them mentioned it, thanked me for meeting with Putin now.

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): If you ask me what kind of partner or interlocketer (ph) President Biden is, I would say that he is very balanced, a professional man. It's obviously clear that he's very experienced.

BIDEN: I made it clear that we will not tolerate attempts to violate our democratic sovereignty.

The bottom line is, I told President Putin that we need to have some basic rules of the road that we can all abide by.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: While the two leaders described the summit as constructive and positive, they still remain at odds over several issues, including Ukraine.

Joining me now is Bill Taylor. He is the former U.S. ambassador to Ukraine and he, of course, testified during Trump's first impeachment trial providing a damning account of Trump telling his appointees to establish a quid pro quo with Ukraine.

Sir, thank you so much for being with us here today. I do want to get your perspective on what this means for relations going forward. After meet with Putin, President Biden said this in his press conference.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I communicated the United States' unwavering commitment to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine. We agreed to pursue diplomacy related to the Minsk Agreement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What -- why did that stick out to you? Why is that so significant?

BILL TAYLOR, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO UKRAINE: I think that's significant, Brianna, because, up until now, the Minsk Agreement and the Normandy Format, which is the Russians, Ukrainians, French and German, those negotiations among that group had not included the United States. So for President Biden to add on to the normal statement about supporting territorial integrity and sovereignty and independence of Ukraine, which we say all the time, which is our strong position, for him to add on a comment about the negotiations and possibly implying that the United States will do what President Zelensky has invited us to do, that is get involved in these negotiations, those negotiations haven't gone anywhere. They've not made progress in resolving that conflict.

And this conflict has been going on for seven, going on eight years, 14,000 Ukrainians have died. And so to resolve that conflict sounds like President Biden might be at least considering getting engaged.

KEILAR: What did you think about how this summit went and your Ukrainian contacts, what did they think about how this summit went?

TAYLOR: So the Ukrainians, of course, very interested in this. They wanted to be sure. They were a little bit nervous going into it because they -- any nation that is the subject of conversation between two other big nations is concerning. So a nation like Ukrainian doesn't want to be an object, a pawn in the -- in the big game between the United States and Russia. They want to be at the table.

So there was a little bit of concern going into it that there would be some deal struck. They were more concerned, frankly, about the previous administration striking some kind of a deal without them. And they're -- the Ukrainians were pretty sure that this new administration plays by the normal rules, which is, if you're going to talk about Ukraine or make any decisions about Ukraine, Ukraine should be in the room.

And so they -- they weren't that worried, but they were always interested that Ukraine is a topic between the United States and Russia.

KEILAR: I kind of get the perspective, I think, talking to just regular Americans that now that the first impeachment trial is over, you know, you say Ukraine, you say Ukrainian/American relations and a lot of people they're -- they just -- you know, they're kind of numb to it. They don't understand why it affects things. They don't understand why that matters when it comes to the U.S. and Russia relations.

You know, what do you say to why this should be such an imperative that people are paying attention to and, obviously, that the Biden administration's working on? TAYLOR: I think Ukraine is important for us, for the United States,

people around the United States, because Ukraine is the front line. So the Russian attack on Ukraine is not just an attack on Ukraine, it's an attack on Europe. It's an attack on the United States.

Election interference, for example, started -- the Russians started doing that and trying to figure out how to interfere in Ukrainian elections.

[08:35:00]

They started there. They didn't stop there. They tried -- they tried the same tactic in Europe. As we know, the Russians interfered in the 2016 and 2020 elections here.

So Ukraine's on the front line, not just of the military fight, again, that has cost so many lives, but it's also on the front line of hacking. The Russians have hacked into Ukrainian electrical systems and shut them down in parts of the country. And we know they didn't stop at Ukraine. We know they've been here as well.

So Ukraine's really on the front line and we should support them.

KEILAR: Yes, I think we're starting to see the effects of it, right? When it's hitting you at the gas pump, I think people are starting to realize it.

TAYLOR: Exactly.

KEILAR: Ambassador Bill Taylor, thank you so much.

TAYLOR: Thank you, Brianna.

KEILAR: Just ahead, the powerful senator who wants to make election day a holiday.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, the Republicans who voted against making Juneteenth a national holiday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Ahead of a crucial Senate vote expected next week, Senator Joe Manchin is now offering a compromise to sweeping voting rights legislation after previously opposing the drafted bill. This is what he says he could support, declaring election day a public holiday, expanding early voting to at least 15 consecutive days, requiring that, banning partisan gerrymandering, allowing for automatic voter registration at the DMV but -- and requiring voter ID to vote.

Joining me now is former Georgia House Minority Leader Stacey Abrams. She is the founder of Fair Fight Action and author of "Our Time is Now: Power, Purpose and the Fight for a Fair America," which is now available in paperback.

Thank you so much for being with us. Look, Joe Manchin, people have been asking him, exactly what could you

support? He has now laid it out. Some of those proposals would be significant changes and requirements from state to state. Is that a compromise you could support?

STACEY ABRAMS, FOUNDER AND CHAIR, FAIR FIGHT ACTION: Absolutely. What Senator Manchin is putting forward are some basic building blocks that we need to ensure that democracy is accessible no matter your geography.

[08:40:07]

And those provisions that he is setting forth are strong ones that will create level playing field, will create standards that do not vary from state to state and I think will ensure that every American has improved access to the right to vote despite the onslaught of state legislations seeking to restrict access to the right to vote.

BERMAN: You could accept this compromise, what Joe Manchin laid out, even if voter ID was part of it?

ABRAMS: That's one of the fallacies of Republican talking points that have been deeply disturbing. No one has ever objected to having to prove who you are to vote. It's been part of our nation's history since the inception of voting.

What has been problematic is the type of restrictive ID that we've seen pop up. In South Dakota, where Native Americans were told that they had to provide IDs with addresses the state refused to provide. We have states where students are not allowed to use their student IDs but you can use your gun license.

Our point is simply that the restrictions on the forms of ID should meet the needs of the people. And what he is proposing makes sense because it says what we've had in this country for so many decades, which is that people can prove their identity in various ways but we should not narrow the level -- narrow the playing field so much that we push voters out of participation simply because of restrictions that make no sense and do not increase security.

I even write about voter ID in my book "Our Time is Now." I support voter identification. I reject restrictive voter identification designed to keep people out of the process.

BERMAN: And, look, I just want to -- you say this once again, because I think it makes some news here. You're a leader in this. Joe Manchin is proposing an alternative. I'm sure you would -- you would like the For the People Act to pass in its entirety. But if this is the alternative that is presented, this is something you would urge Democrats in the Senate to get behind?

ABRAMS: This is a first and important step to preserving our democracy. Unfortunately, we have been watching a slow-motion onslaught where state after state we are seeing anti-voter legislation, legislation that seeks to criminalize and intimidate election workers and voting laws that will subvert democracy by making certain that small coteries of people can overturn election results. Those should be untenable to any American.

And if Joe Manchin and the U.S. senators who support this legislation are willing to come together on a compromise, then we will make progress. We will help to continue to ensure access to our democracy for as many Americans as possible. And that is always a native good.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about something separate that happened yesterday on Capitol Hill. And this, I think, maybe caught a few people by surprise because it seemed to happen very quickly there, which is that there is now bicameral approval to make Juneteenth a national holiday. Juneteenth marks the end of slavery in the U.S. The historical date there, there's an interesting history to it, but it has come to acknowledge the end of slavery in the U.S. And now Congress has agreed to declare it a national holiday. President Biden could sign it into law today.

A, the significance of that as a statement and, b, the fact that 14 Republicans still voted against it, what do you think of that?

ABRAMS: I -- I always am saddened by those who refuse to acknowledge our history and refuse to celebrate the moment where we make progress as a nation. The end of slavery in the United States should be a cause for remembrance for every single American. And it is always very, very telling when there are those who refuse to acknowledge the truth of our eyes.

But at the same time, we need to continue to make progress on serving the needs of our communities by acknowledging the legacy that slavery has brought to your country. We need to acknowledge the responsibility of addressing all of the vestiges that remain but, once again, making progress is what's important to me, and this decision is an important step forward in acknowledging the full history of our country.

BERMAN: It really is. It is a big step.

And, finally, as I mentioned, your paperback -- you book coming out in paperback this week. You talked about some of the things you discussed. You talked about the history of slavery. You also just talked about the history of the vote and restricting the vote, that it is something that has gone on in this country since the founding of this country.

ABRAMS: Unfortunately, at our inception, Native Americans were denied citizenship. African-Americans were denied humanity. Women were told to be silent. And over our history we have seen progress made, the 15th Amendment, the 19th Amendment, the 26th Amendment and 1965 Voting Rights Act. Our responsibility is to seize this moment where we, as a nation, can continue to expand access to the right to vote for every American because that is the premise on which our nation is built and it's something I celebrate every day.

BERMAN: Stacey Abrams, I appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for joining us.

ABRAMS: Thank you for having me.

BERMAN: Is the U.S. recovery still on the right track? A surprising new read on unemployment just in to CNN, next.

KEILAR: Plus, another ironic comment by House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy.

[08:45:00]

He says President Biden gave Vladimir Putin a pass, apparently forgetting years of the Trump era.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: There is a movement on the infrastructure bill as 20 senators, including ten Republicans, in a bipartisan group, say they support the infrastructure framework. They acknowledge, though, there's still a ways to go as they try to figure out how to pay for the improvements while final details are being hammered out.

CNN has obtained a draft document that lays out in more detail the current thinking of how this $579 billion in infrastructure spending would be allocated. There's $312 billion that is currently earmarked for transportation, which includes roads, bridges, public transit and airports and $266 billion for other infrastructure, including water, power and broadband.

So let's talk about all of this with our CNN chief political correspondent and co-anchor of "STATE OF THE UNION," Dana Bash.

[08:50:04]

Dana, always wonderful to see you in the morning.

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

KEILAR: Does this mean that things are getting close?

BASH: Closer. I mean we have to have perspective here. Brianna, when you and I covered Congress together a few years ago, we used to stand outside the room where negotiators were trying to come up with deals just like they're going -- that are going on right now. For a long time, there weren't even rooms to stand outside of because these kinds of negotiations stopped. So, you know, perspective -- a little bit of perspective that, you know, at least there are now 20 Republicans and Democrats, 10 and 10, having these discussions. That's something. Whether or not it will get from real robust discussions, even an outline draft, like CNN has obtained, to actual legislation, that is TBD. Any of these things can fall apart at the last minute. But the fact that they are working, the fact that people like Nancy Pelosi, who I interviewed on Sunday, didn't bless it but certainly talked about that it was a very good sign, the White House is being mum, just saying that they're looking at it, these are all signs for -- of progress.

And one of the reasons is because certainly President Biden and the Democrats need a "w" on the board. They need -- they need a win. But it's actually true for Republicans. They, more and more who I talk to, say that the notion that they are simply obstructionists -- I know people are going to be sending me messages on Twitter, but a lot of them do want to go home and say, I got something done.

And what better subject to do that on than to say, look, see that bridge that's going to get built in -- in my district or in my state? That's because we were -- actually worked together in Washington.

Not there yet, but they're on the road, to use an infrastructure pun, John Berman.

BERMAN: I -- well, I was going to say, I hope the messages you get on Twitter are all happy birthday messages for this week.

But be that as it may, I want to ask you about something that House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy just said moments ago. He reacted to -- for the first time to the Biden/Putin summit. And he said that President Biden gave Vladimir Putin a pass. That's what he just said.

Now, I want to remind people that Kevin McCarthy was caught on tape in 2016 saying that he thought that Putin was paying Donald Trump, OK? So there's a little bit of irony in this. He says that Biden gave Putin a pass.

Your thoughts?

BASH: You know, I mean, this is in -- compared to what? Compared to a President Trump who stood next to Vladimir Putin and threw American intelligence community under the bus and sided with Putin when -- who denied interfering in American democracy and President Trump basically said, OK.

Look, there are a lot of unknowns in what happened yesterday in Geneva. Unknowns about how much the U.S. is going to benefit. How far President Biden got in trying to connect with Vladimir Putin. You know, maybe some less partisan Republicans, who I'm texting with, who are foreign policy experts are concerned that President Biden didn't get anything out of the summit.

But the question is, what is the anything? What could he have gotten in the short term, especially when you do have moves like the two Americans detained under House arrest and so forth. President Biden said them by name. That is something Republicans wanted them to do.

So, I think the jury is still out, but it is proof that there is no such thing as partisanship ending at the water's edge anymore.

KEILAR: No, there certainly is not.

And also a belated happy birthday, Dana Bash.

BASH: Thanks, guys.

KEILAR: This is the kind -- we're going to celebrate it all week, maybe all month, maybe all year.

BASH: We're good.

KEILAR: It's great to see you. BASH: We're good. We're good.

BERMAN: Thank you so much, Dana.

All right, new this morning, weekly jobless claims rising, rising for the first time in more than a month.

Chief business correspondent Christine Romans with more.

What's going on?

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, this is all going in the wrong direction here, John. You've got 412,000 people filed for the first time for jobless benefits. That reverses six weeks of progress. And this really caught a lot of people by surprise. It signals ongoing layoffs, historically high layoffs still when you compare it to pre-pandemic levels in the American labor market.

A continuing claims, these are people who have been getting jobless benefits for at least two weeks, 3.5 million. Overall, people on unemployment benefits, 14.8 million. I'm encouraged that that number is below 15 million for the first time of the pandemic.

But, still, it just shows you the scarring in the American labor market. There are so many workers who have been dislocated by COVID. You have half of the states end early their unemployment benefits, their extra unemployment benefits. Some of these Republican governors said it was a disincentive to work. But we are still seeing the layoffs here.

[08:55:03]

And what I'm hearing from a lot of economists, labor market economists, is this is not really going to go right back to normal very quickly. There are millions of low-wage workers, especially women, who just simply are not ready to go back to work at low wages with family, child care and elder care issues in their homes. So we'll see how this works out when all of those unemployment benefits expire. But, still, far too many people, 412,000 people, filing for first time jobless benefits in the most recent week, John.

BERMAN: Interesting to see. It bears watching.

ROMANS: Yes.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, thank you very much for that.

Next, new evidence of the attack on the U.S. Capitol and new attempts by Republicans to whitewash what happened that day.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Time now for "The Good Stuff." The wow stuff there. That's one of the world's largest diamonds just unearthed in Botswana. The 1,098 carat stone is believed to be the third largest diamond ever found. An estimate of the stone's cost has not yet been released. But in 2017, the second largest diamond, which was also found in Botswana, sold for $53 million.

[09:00:01]

The government there says proceeds from the diamond will be used to advance national development in the country.

KEILAR: I think that's pretty cool. But, I'll tell you, that's huge.