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New Day
NFL Reflecting our Culture; First Rioter to be Sentenced Today; Britney Spears in Court Today. Aired 8:30-9a ET
Aired June 23, 2021 - 08:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[08:33:41]
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The NFL, of course, is a big part of American culture. It's also a reflection of American culture. It's a microcosm of this country as the last few days have shown. Just look at what's happened here in the past week.
Monday, Carl Nassib came out as gay. This actually made him the first active player to do so.
And, over the weekend, the Bills Cole Beasley tweeted that he'd rather retire than get the COVID vaccine in a challenge to the league's new pre-season protocols.
On Monday night, the Vikings Jalen Twyman was shot four times while sitting in a car in Washington, D.C. He is expected to make a full recovery.
And on Sunday, the Chiefs' Frank Clark was arrested after he was spotted with an Uzi firearm in his car.
CNN's Chris Cillizza noted about the series of events, questions of identity, vaccine doubters, surging violence in big cities and the prevalence of guns in the hands of our citizenry are all on the leading edge of the changes (and resistance to those changes) roiling our society.
Let's talk about this now and more with the host of "DON LEMON TONIGHT," and the author of "This is the Fire: What I Say to My Friends about Racism," Don Lemon.
It would be weird if it wasn't Don Lemon.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: I know, at that point.
KEILAR: That would be very odd.
Don Lemon.
I would -- what do you think about this? Great to see you.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR, "DON LEMON TONIGHT": Good to see you.
Good to see -- ah.
KEILAR: Hey.
BERMAN: Man.
LEMON: Good morning.
KEILAR: I'm not here all the time.
[08:35:00]
There's a novelty.
LEMON: Yes.
KEILAR: But, yes, what do you think about this, that it's a microcosm?
LEMON: It is a microcosm. And, listen, the -- we have a problem with gun violence and with crime, which I'm sure we'll get to in this country as it relates to the guns and the shooting. But the thing that vexes me is this resistance to getting the vaccine. And so many of us got vaccines as children. There's a reason why people, you know, don't get polio anymore and so on and so forth. And to have an NFL player putting other people's lives at risk by refusing to get a vaccine and then telling the NFL, well, I'll quit or I'm not going to do it. I don't have -- the NFL should say, OK, and slam the door and move on and set an example.
Look, what they did -- what professional sports did with bubbles in order to save the sport and to have the American people be able to enjoy the sports, they did it for a reason. They did it to save lives and they did it to save industry, money and business. And to have certain people saying, I'm not going to do it. If they don't want to do it, they don't have to play NFL. In order to come to work here now, you have to, what? You have to be double vaccinated. You have to be vaccinated and you have to show proof of it in order to protect other people. It is the most selfish thing ever, I think, for someone to say, well, I don't want to, it's my right. OK, then it's my right, it's my boss's right to say, good-bye, Don Lemon, don't come in until you get a vaccination. If you don't show up for enough -- a long period of time, then good-bye. And I think the NFL and professional sports should do the exact same thing.
BERMAN: (INAUDIBLE) hang out in the locker rooms, you know, breathing heavy all over each other.
LEMON: Yes.
BERMAN: You know, small areas like that.
LEMON: And as far as the gun thing, listen, we're not going to solve it in this segment. It is an issue and that's something that needs -- we need to be -- we need to fix those issues.
BERMAN: So, Don, why can't there be simultaneously police reform and a serious discussion about how to address the rise in violent crime in the cities?
LEMON: There can be.
BERMAN: Right.
LEMON: There -- there can -- you can do all those things. But politicians want to pretend that you can't. Politicians want to stop agendas. They don't -- listen, this president, I'm sure, I know this president and this administration wants to tackle this issues of gun violence, and of overall crime in this country. We need police officers. But we need good police officers. We need policing in this country.
I don't think -- and I've gone on the record, I think the whole idea of -- the idea and some of the things behind the defund the police movement, yes, it's good. Should police be a catchall for everything? No. But the term "defund the police" is a bad term. It sets the wrong tone. Police should not be defunded. Maybe they should be refunded. Maybe we should figure out how to use them better. But we can have those conversations without being divided. And politicians want to exploit the division in this country. They -- and instead of looking at what the term actually means and how best to reform policing and how best to tackle crimes they -- crime, they say, well, this administration wants to do this and they want to take all your guns away and they want to do -- no one ever wants to take anybody's guns away. That's never, ever going to happen in America.
KEILAR: And now, in this vernacular about the division that we're seeing is this issue of wokeness, right? It's -- it's -- it's, you know, even James Carville, who is a Democrat, but obviously very middle of the road, said Democrats have a wokeness problem. I wonder what you think about that.
LEMON: I think the entire country has a wokeness problem because there's one side -- I hate these little catch-all phrases. There's one side that wants to use it as a pejorative. And then there's another side that wants to hold people to a standard that no one -- that no one can be held to, that no one can reach, no one can attain that standard.
People are human. They're fallible. We need to allow people to be humans and fallible. This country is supposed to be about restitution, and about second and third and sometimes even fourth chances. After a while, if people do the same thing over and over and they're ignorant about it, they can't be changed, and there's recidivism, right, whatever the issue is, then you make -- you start to make that decision.
But you have to stop cancelling people, so to speak, for one mistake or two mistakes or three mistakes. Because I've gotten I don't know how many chances in my life. And I think that I am a good person. I'm not, you know, I'm not perfect. No one is.
But, on the other side, people want to be able to do bigoted things, racist things, ignorant things, continue to operate in a system that is no longer operable. They want to be able to do it with impunity. And that's not the -- that's not the way it should be. The country is changing and evolving. There are more voices in this country. People of color and women have agency and authority now. And they're standing up for rights and saying how they want to be treated. And you can't say, well, just because I can't be a sexist or I can't, you know, make this homophobic joke anymore or discriminate against people, that woke culture has gone too far, it's ridiculous.
If you believe in the founding documents of this country, that means equality and equity for every single person, people who look like me, people who are members of the LGBTQ and plus community, women, everyone.
[08:40:03]
Not just white guys.
BERMAN: I mean my issue with the discussion, and I'm putting it in quotes, of cancel culture is, it's a strawman (ph) basically.
LEMON: Yes.
BERMAN: Because what is being fully canceled here? People, when they're being criticized or called to account for outrageous things that they've said or done saying, oh, you're cancelling me because you're bringing it up.
LEMON: Yes. Yes. No, you're being -- you're being held accountable. And, you know, this -- the idea of what -- you're being held accountable because you are sometimes just a Neanderthal or just because sometimes you are a bigot.
If the teachings of religion and the Bible tells us that we need to be aware, we need to be awake. That America -- that -- not America, but that the world people need to wake up, right, and get to know and love each other, that's the idea behind wokeness. So if you have any idea, if you have any inclining or you want to be a Christian and you want to live up to religious teachings or doctrines, then you need to (INAUDIBLE) awake. And sometimes that means being woke. But it also means, what? Forgiving people. Allowing them to be human. That's what Jesus did. That's what the Bible teaches us.
KEILAR: I love that.
BERMAN: Thus endith the sermon.
KEILAR: So true.
LEMON: And let the church say --
KEILAR: Amen. Amen.
LEMON: And let the NEW DAY say --
BERMAN: Amen.
LEMON: Amen. KEILAR: I just feel like we needed that today. Thank you, Don.
BERMAN: Yes.
KEILAR: Thank you.
BERMAN: You can watch -- if you don't have enough of Don in the morning, he's going to be back here tomorrow and Friday with us here on NEW DAY bright and early.
KEILAR: This isn't enough Don. That's right, 6:00 a.m.
BERMAN: You don't see that. You can see him at 10:00 p.m. tonight on "DON LEMON TONIGHT."
LEMON: Tip your co-anchors and --
BERMAN: Exactly.
All right, up next, the Capitol riot suspect using "Schindler's List" to ask a judge for leniency.
KEILAR: And will Britney Spears free herself. What she could tell a judge to regain control of her life.
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[08:45:52]
BERMAN: Today, an Indiana grandmother is set to be the first person sentenced for participating in the U.S. Capitol riot. Anna Morgan- Lloyd, the woman on the right in the gray hoodie, was pictured inside the Capitol during the insurrection on January 6th. She posted on FaceBook that day, quote, I'm here. Best day ever. We stormed the Capitol building, me and Donna Bissie (ph) were the first 50 people in.
She agreed to a plea deal after being charged with a misdemeanor.
Joining me now is Heather Shaner, attorney for Anna Morgan-Lloyd.
Thanks so much for being with us.
One of the things your client did while asking for leniency from the judge was to point out that she saw "Schindler's List" and "Just Mercy" and that changed her perspective somehow on life.
As my grandmother used to say, "Schindler's List" and "Just Mercy," you know, what does that have to do with the price of fish in Russia? Like, what does that matter here?
HEATHER SHANER, ATTORNEY FOR CAPITOL RIOT SUSPECT ANNA MORGAN-LLOYD: Well, what matters is that from agreeing -- and being interested in getting a library card, reading books, taking civics courses online, Anna acknowledged both to herself and then to the court that there was a lot to learn about her individual responsibility and the relationship between a citizen's rights and a citizen's responsibility. And Anna --
BERMAN: Was she -- wait, was she suggesting --
SHANER: I'm sorry.
BERMAN: I'm sorry. Was she suggesting because she didn't know enough about the Holocaust that's why she stormed the Capitol?
SHANER: No, of course not. I presented Anna and a number of my clients with a book list, and they could choose to read what --
BERMAN: Are you still with us?
SHANER: I -- I think so. It went blank on my screen.
BERMAN: Oh, listen, I'm sorry there. She had said at one point, in addition to that posting I put up earlier, she said she was glad she had stormed the Capitol so, quote, we can spread the truth about what happened and open the eyes of some of our friends.
What does she believe at this point is the truth about what happened?
SHANER: What she believes at this point is that she was uninformed and misinformed, and that her presence at the Capitol possibly empowered others who had more intentional ideas about what they were doing to behave violently. And that was never her intention.
BERMAN: Attorney Heather Shaner, we appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you very much for your time.
SHANER: OK. Bye.
KEILAR: We do have some new details ahead on what President Biden is expected to say today about crime and guns in America.
KEILAR: Plus, her fans have been saying it for years, free Britney. What does Britney Spears have to say? We could find out just a short time from now.
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[08:53:40]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRITNEY SPEARS, MUSICIAN (singing): Oh, yes. I feel like a girl on my own.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: Britney Spears is expected to break her silence today at a court hearing in the ongoing battle over her conservatorship. She has not been in charge of her personal life or her finances for 13 years. What will she say about her situation and will a judge decide to free Britney from the court-ordered legal arrangement? I'm joined now by Liz Day, who is co-creator of the documentary
"Framing Britney Spears," and "New York Times Presents" senior story editor.
Really fascinating documentary that I think certainly catches people up on what is going on here with Britney Spears.
Liz, do you have any idea what to expect out of what's happening in court today?
LIZ DAY, CO-CREATOR, "FRAMING BRITNEY SPEARS" DOCUMENTARY: So, no one actually knows what Britney is going to say today, but many people think that Britney will likely talk about her father, Jamie, who she has been fighting for the last year to remove from controlling her $60 million fortune.
KEILAR: OK. And she had signaled through a court filing, so obviously what her lawyers had filed, that she was aware of this free Britney movement and folks who were involved in that really took that as a sign from her that she was endorsing what they were doing.
How likely is it that the public might hear from Britney on this issue?
DAY: So, again, we don't know for sure, but we think we are possibly going to get to hear from Britney directly today.
[08:55:04]
And that has never really happened before for most of the 13-year long conservatorship saga. Everything has been sealed away to the public.
KEILAR: Your new reporting that you have says that Britney Spears has been trying to get out of this conservatorship, which it is extraordinary, that she's been trying to get out of this for longer than we previously knew. You write, as early as 2014, in a hearing closed to the public, Ms. Spears' court appointed lawyer said she wanted to explore moving her father as conservator, citing his drinking, among other objections, on a shopping list of grievances.
How significant is that, that she's been trying to do this for so many years?
DAY: Well, that was really surprising to us because recently defenders of the conservatorship have said things like, you know, this benefits Britney and she could file to get out of it at any time, basically implying that, you know, she wants to be in this. So it was really surprising to see that in the confidential court records she has been raising concerns about the conservatorship and pushing to get out of it far earlier than anyone knew.
KEILAR: What were you most surprised to learn during your investigation?
DAY: Probably two things. I was most surprised to see how troubled Jamie and Britney's relationship is and was. You know, he was not around very much when Britney was growing up and he seriously struggled with alcohol. And then to see that Britney was raising concerns about him being conservator from the very start and, you know, talking about his drinking in court, that was really surprising.
And the second thing I was surprised by was, you know, there's this court investigator's report in which Britney told the court investigator, I'm sick of being taken advantage of and everyone around me is on my payroll. That was very surprising because you hear critics of the conservatorship say that very often, that people are -- you know, the conservatorship profits off of Britney. But to hear it from her mouth, according to this report, was very surprising.
KEILAR: So, you know, what are the range of outcomes here? You know, what -- how likely is this to actually change?
DAY: So, it's -- there are a lot of possibilities of what might happen today. You know, Britney most likely will probably ask to remove her father, Jaime. But she could ask to end the conservatorship completely, which would be a very big deal.
And then there are just so many other options where she could ask for something specific, like about her phone, or, you know, she wants to get married. But we do know she asked for this on an emergency basis. So it appears that it will be something big and important to her.
KEILAR: What are we hearing from her father, Jamie Spears?
DAY: So, he did not respond to our "The New York Times" report that came out yesterday. But, in general, we hear, you know, his lawyers say that he has done a good job as conservator and that he loves his daughter very much.
KEILAR: You know, I have an idea the answer to this next question as I see it, but I wonder what you think, which is your documentary, "Framing Britney Spears," and -- and do you think that it impacted this, that it impacted the free and the free Britney movement have impacted this case?
DAY: Perhaps. The documentary and the free Britney movement have impacted the case. We really don't know what's going on inside of the head of, you know, the judge and the various lawyers involved. But I think that, you know, Britney herself last year said she wants more transparency, and she does not want her father to keep this legal battle locked up in the closet like a family secret.
KEILAR: What has Britney Spears been doing over the past year? I know that we see her on social media. We do get some glimpses. But sometimes those videos she posts actually raise more questions than they answer. What has she been up to?
DAY: We don't know. So, the conservatorship has the ability to restrict visitors to Britney. So, you know, people, journalists, for example, describe, you know, it's very difficult to interview her directly with no conditions and do a real independent interview. So I'm not sure that anyone knows exactly what's going on in her day to- to-day life. KEILAR: And, career wise, what has she be doing, what do you expect is
ahead for her?
DAY: So Britney's lawyer announced that she is on a work -- indefinite work hiatus, basically a work strike. As long as her father is in charge of her money, she doesn't want to perform and make more money for him.
KEILAR: I mean that is significant, right? So she's not -- do you think that will have -- be a factor in this in at least shifting maybe who's in charge of the conservatorship?
DAY: It really makes you wonder because one of the explanations for the conservatorship is to, you know, help her manage her finances and rebuild her fortune. And if she is saying, I will not work and make any more money, even for myself, as long as this man is the one in control of my money.
[09:00:06]
It makes you question whether -- you know, how the -- how the court will respond, and will they continue to allow him to be in charge?
KEILAR: Yes, we will be watching today. Liz Day, thank you for being with us.
DAY: Thank you.
BERMAN: All right, CNN's coverage continues right now.
