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Inspectors are Looking at Buildings Near the Collapsed Condo; Biden Orders Airstrikes; Barr on Trump's Fraud Claims. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 28, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:33:02]

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MAYOR CHARLES BURKETT, SURFSIDE, FLORIDA: We don't know why that building fell down. And, given that, we need to get in and understand what's going on with the sister building.

We're going to make alternative housing available for any resident that really doesn't want to be in that building.

I don't know if I'd be comfortable staying in that building until I knew for sure that -- that they had done a comprehensive, top-to- bottom study on what's going on with the systems in that building.

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JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: That's the mayor of Surfside, Florida, talking about the Champlain North Tower that was built in 1981 around the same time as the South Tower that is now partially collapsed.

Joining me now is Robert Lisman. He is a resident of Champlain East Tower, a different tower in this complex, which was actually built later in 1994.

Robert, thanks so much for being with us.

First of all, you can see the destruction from your window.

ROBERT LISMAN, RESIDENT OF CHAMPLAIN EAST TOWER: Clearly. Yes. It's -- there's views from the backyard of the building that I'm able to actually see the -- all the damage. It's -- it's extremely shocking.

BERMAN: How do you -- you've been staying in your apartment. How do you feel about that? How safe do you feel?

LISMAN: I feel confident enough to stay. For the first couple of days it was extremely nerve-racking because we did have structural damage. But yesterday we were able to have a city official come and review the damage and determine that there's no imminent threat. So between that and the fact that we've had massive balcony renovation projects, an engineer come just recently as last year and inspect top-to-bottom the building and conclude that it's in good shape. Generally, all -- you know, I felt safe enough to -- to be in the building.

BERMAN: You've taken pictures. You went down and took pictures inside your structure, inside the parking area. I think we've got these images to show people.

What did you see when you went down? What do the pictures show?

LISMAN: Yes. It's -- it's a crack in a column in the parking garage. Behind that crack you could see that there's some rust or erosion of some kind. And so I saw that and it was -- I don't know if it's like something that is OK, that it's just an exterior of the column, or something that is more to be concerned about.

[08:35:10]

BERMAN: And what were you told?

LISMAN: I was told initially that there's nothing to worry about. But when I asked if a structural engineer ever came, I never got a confirmation. So basically it was someone not qualified to determine that letting me know.

BERMAN: All right.

Did you ever had any reason for concern, a serious concern, about your building or the South Tower, which you can see from your window, anything?

LISMAN: I mean structural damage to a parking garage is something to be concerned. So when I saw that, that was concerning. But other than that, our building is in very good shape. So it was kind of confusing at that point. You know, are we in -- are we in danger or not? It was an unknown.

BERMAN: What have the last few days been like for you?

LISMAN: You know, it -- at first it was shock, sadness, and then it turned into anger. The -- buildings shouldn't collapse. This isn't normal. This -- this needs to be looked at and we need to do things to make sure that this never happens again.

BERMAN: Now, explain for us, because I'm not sure our viewers know, depending on where you live in the country and how your own living situation is set up, you know, it's different everywhere.

Here, the condo association has an enormous amount of power.

LISMAN: Sure.

BERMAN: How so?

LISMAN: I mean they do more than make decisions about the color of the carpet or, you know, what gym equipment we choose. Their decisions have life and death consequences. And some of their decisions have led to the collapse of the South Tower.

BERMAN: How so?

LISMAN: You know, they knew in 2018 that there was -- it was -- there was a massive threat to the building, that there was damage and yet nothing was done. So did they make the decision to do nothing? Did the town make the decision to do nothing? Someone knew, yet nothing was done.

BERMAN: One of the issues is, and without assigning blame here, but just so people understand, is when there is this damage to the building that does need to be repaired, who pays?

LISMAN: Yes. The owners pay, right? It's a -- it's a special assessment.

BERMAN: And it could be extraordinarily expensive if you have, you know, $10 million of repairs to do on a building, which is easily what you could have in a structure like this, that would mean $100,000 or so for every tenant in the building.

LISMAN: We did it. We had a special assessment. We financed it. We paid for it. We did a balcony renovation project. We -- we fixed all the rebar. We fixed all the concrete. We did everything that the South Tower didn't do. So if we were able to do it, then they should be able to do it.

BERMAN: How much did it cost you, if I can ask?

LISMAN: The assessment was in the thousands for, you know, a little bit over a year. I think we're still paying for it. I forget the exact number, but it was significant.

BERMAN: So you showed me a picture, I don't think we have it here, you can see your window. You see the area around the pool in the South Tower. You see how it fell in?

LISMAN: Yes.

BERMAN: A collapse there. There are engineers now telling "The New York Times" and "The Miami Herold," they think the collapse, based on the video that they've seen, may have started from the bottom of the building.

LISMAN: Yes. Sure (ph).

BERMAN: Is that what you think as well?

LISMAN: Yes, I think it's a -- it's a combination of many things. There's -- you know, we know that there was demolition next door with a larger building that could have disrupted the foundation. We know that there was sewage issues before they broke ground in 1981 that could have led to it. We know that the balconies needed repair. We know that they were putting massive barrels of tar on top of the roof when the building collapsed. We know that there was issues with the materials that they used in the concrete, whether it was -- they used some sand in it or not. It was just a whole bunch of combinations of things that led to the collapse, not one.

BERMAN: All right, Robert Lisman, you know, I know this has been a tough few days for you. You've got a one-year-old and a five-year-old. Hug your kids extra tight tonight.

LISMAN: Oh, yes, I will.

BERMAN: I know it's got to be a strange feeling of you going home every day at this point.

LISMAN: Yes, it is. Yes.

BERMAN: I appreciate you being with us.

LISMAN: Thanks for having me.

BERMAN: All right, next here on Surfside, a new account of what happened outside the Florida condo building just moments before disaster struck.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Also ahead, U.S. air strikes on the Iraq/Syria border. Why President Biden gave the order.

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[08:43:04]

HILL: Breaking overnight, President Biden ordering air strikes along the Iraq/Syria border overnight. The U.S. says the military targeted operational and weapons storage facilities used by Iran-backed militias. At least four people believe to be militia fighters are dead.

Joining us now, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

Always good to see you.

So when we look at this we're told, you know, in a statement, in this release from the Pentagon, that this was in response to recent drone attacks on U.S. troops in the region. What should we take away from this?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, we're taking away that -- that these Iranian-backed Shia militias have been operating with impunity in the area near the Syria/Iraq border. The strikes were two in Syria, one in Iraq, at facilities used by Kata'ib Hezbollah, KH, and Kata'id Saieb Asahuta (ph). These are -- these are two Iranian-backed militias that frankly have been operating independently and by reports they have conducted five drone strikes against U.S. forces in that area. So it is a definitive action protecting U.S. forces in that part of Iraq/Syria.

HILL: You know what else stood out to me and I'm just going to read a portion of this, of the release from Pentagon Press Secretary John Kirby where he says, as demonstrated by this evening's strikes, President Biden has been clear that he'll act to protect U.S. personnel, given the ongoing series of attacks by Iran-backed groups targeting U.S. interests in Iraq, the president directed further military action to disrupt and deter such attacks.

I just found the language interesting there and specifically that they were pointing out these actions by President Biden.

Should we be reading more into that? Is that trying to send another message?

HERTLING: You know, it is sending another message. It's actually, in my view, Erica, sending a couple of messages. The first one is that these tactical strikes against U.S. forces will not be acceptable to the United States and President Biden is going to continue to strike this.

[08:45:02]

The second message is, in the past these kind of militia groups have used unguided missiles, unguided rockets and the chance of striking a target were very slim. Right now they're using drones and quad copter drones, the small things you could get into a radio -- in a Radio Shack store, to drop weapons in a very precise manner. That's a whole different ball game. And I think the CENTCOM commander said that he is not going to accept that.

The third thing is, we're trying to separate the attempt to renegotiate the Iran nuclear deal with warnings to Iran to not conduct these kinds of attacks. So there's several messages be sent by John Kirby, our good friend.

HILL: Yes.

General, always good to have you with us. Appreciate the insight this morning. Thank you.

HERTLING: Thanks, Erica.

Coming up, former Attorney General Bill Barr's bleep-worthy word for President Trump's election fraud claims.

Plus, as families hold out hope in Surfside, Florida, a chilling, new account of a phone call one husband received from his wife who is still missing.

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[08:50:21]

HILL: In a new interview, former Attorney General William Barr has a choice word for his former boss' election fraud claims. It's a word that, frankly, could be applied to a lot of what happened during the Trump administration, as John Avlon explains in our "Reality Check."

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICS ANALYST: It was all bullshit. That's what former Attorney General Bill Barr called Donald Trump's repeated lies about the 2020 election in an interview with "The Atlantic." And it's almost funny because that's the exact opposite of what Trump supporters were told they were backing.

Remember that Trump 20 -- Trump/Pence 2020 bumper sticker slogan? Yes, it was perfect project and deflect form because bullshit is all Donald Trump was ever selling.

With more than 30,000 false or misleading statements tallied by "The Washington Post" over his four years in office, which translates to roughly 21 a day, which is kind of hard to do. But Trump's lies are a given at this point. It's the air he breathes. What's so important, though, is that many of his hard-core supporters still buy this BS while so many elected Republicans still refuse to clearly condemn his legacy of lies and the unprecedented attack on our democracy that they directly inspired.

But Barr's belated comments, which came after he stoked baseless fears about mail-in ballots before the election, are part of a growing trend that's going to harder for Republicans to ignore because the call is increasingly coming from inside their house.

Now, take the GOP-led Michigan State Senate report released late last week determining that there was no evidence of wide-spread or systemic fraud in the election. They dug into all the greatest hits bleeded (ph) by Trump's lawyers and cable TV sicofants (ph) debunking claims that dead people voted, that machine -- voting machines were compromised or ballots dumped in Detroit or mysteriously switched, stating that they were, quote, appalled at what could only be deduced as a willful ignorance or avoidance of the truth.

And one of those folks, Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani had his New York state law license suspended because the court found uncontroverted evidence that Giuliani communicated demonstrably false and misleading statements to courts, lawmakers and the public at large in connection with Trump's failed effort at re-election in 2020.

In the long run, it might only be the law that reigns in the people who are still pushing Trump's lies, whether it's Sydney Powell, Michael Flynn or the My Pillow guy, who's peddling the crackers conspiracy theory that Trump will be magically reinstate as president.

Meanwhile, the grifters are going to grift while Trump reflexively attacks anyone who doesn't exhibit total fealty. Every day we learn more about how close our country came to having our democracy undone. Whether it's new reporting about Trump aides toying with invoking the insurrection act, or the ex-president's supposed demands that the military crack skulls during protests or his alleged suggestion to send COVID-infected Americans to Guantanamo Bay, who, according to Trump officials, knew the January 6th rally could turn ugly and encouraged it anyway while the president and his chief of staff pressured the DOJ to challenge the election results.

No willful enemy of the republic could have done more to undermine our democracy and yet we still see the vast majority of Republican politicians continue to parrot the big lie because they're afraid that telling the truth could hurt them politically at partisan primaries, which makes them complicit, which work. Many of those elected official and right-wing wannabes know that Trump is nothing but a bullshit artist, they just think his supporters can't handle the truth and so they rationalize and play what-about-ism games. It's a deal with the devil because there can be no compromise with lies, especially when our democracy is at stake.

And that's your "Reality Check."

HILL: John Avlon, thank you.

John Berman, as we look at what is unfolding there in Sunrise, Florida, you've had so many incredible interviews this morning as we hear from people who are there, who are living through this moment. And I was really struck, just a short time ago, when you spoke with this engineer who surveyed the building last year, that he saw some cracks, saw some damage, but it wasn't cause for concern. That -- that really struck me, I have to say, in the moment.

BERMAN: I think the biggest takeaway from this may not be that there were smoking guns that people at the time knew were so risky. It's that we have to maybe retrospectively go back and reassess what's truly dangerous in these hundreds upon hundreds of condo buildings along the coast here.

So, yes, this engineer was in the building that collapsed last year and he saw the cracks. He saw the cracks under down in the garage, underground near the pool area there.

[08:55:01]

He saw them. He noted them and he did not necessarily think they were cause for immediate alarm.

He also looked that that 2018 engineering report that went into much even greater detail about that. And he said, you know, that, they put in more comprehensive view, the problems facing the building and the people in the building saw that and knew that they had some work to do to bring it up to code and to make it safe but that there was nothing even in that 2018 report that indicated it had to be done at that second or that they were in imminent risk of the building collapsing.

But now I think that people need to go back and think about how things are and how they intend to keep buildings safe here going forward.

In the meantime, they've dug a trench through the site there. They're making progress digging through. But as of now, we haven't been told that there have been any more people identified or any signs of life while they're holding out hope all at the same time.

CNN's special, live coverage from Surfside continues in just a moment.

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