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New Day

Search and Rescue Efforts Continue in Rubble of Collapsed Building in Surfside, Florida; Possible Contribution of Climate Change to Building Collapse Examined; Areas in U.S. and Canada Experience Record High Temperatures; Interview with Dr. Vivek Murthy, Surgeon General of the United States. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired June 30, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

COL. GOLAN VACH, ISRAELI DEFENSE FORCE: We found people. Unfortunately, they're not alive. We found some more tunnels. It was between the balconies. So the balconies, between them remains a big space of air that we crawled. We crawled in those tunnels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Also developing overnight, crucial new clues about the cause of this deadly building collapse, or at least the sequence of it. An eyewitness who escaped from the condo tower with just minutes to spare is filling in critical new details about the timeline here. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH NIR, RESIDENT WHO ESCAPED CHAMPLAIN TOWERS: It was a big boom, and I was running to see where the sound come from. And I saw all the garage collapse. God, watch us. God was waiting for us to leave the building. And then another big boom, and then we didn't see anything. It was suddenly quiet after the big boom, and it was white clouds all over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That was Sarah Nir with her daughter overnight. They heard sounds of the building creaking. She ran to the lobby. She saw the pool deck area, the garage area collapse first, got outside, and then that's when the rest of the building, she says, went down.

I want to bring in someone who has been reporting extensively on this disaster, "USA Today" reporter Romina Ruiz-Goiriena. Thank you so much for being with us. Your work has been terrific here. I want to get to the investigation and the engineering questions in just a second. But first, we did get some news right here on NEW DAY a short time ago from that Israeli commander who has been helping with the search and rescue operation. So more bodies recovered overnight. We'll get official word on that when the news conference happens in a couple hours. But the fact that they've discovered now some tunnels and voids big enough for them to go through, this is in a way what they've been waiting for, because it's only in those tunnels and voids where you really have a hope of finding any survivors.

ROMINA RUIZ-GOIRIENA, REPORTER, "USA TODAY": Well, I think -- thank you so much for having me. I think one of the things that is really important is that we're entering day seven. And according to just search and rescue teams and common knowledge, we're at a seven percent survival rate.

BERMAN: It's tough. There's no question it's tough, and the chances are dimming every day. But Colonel Vach who has been through these before, he says, look, we still have hope. It's not great hope, but we do have some hope.

Now to your reporting on everything we are learning now about this building and the engineering, the 2018 engineering report talking about major problems underneath in the garage. Sarah Nir, a survivor, told me overnight that she heard these sounds of the building creaking, and then she saw with her own eyes the garage and pool deck area collapse first. How significant is that?

RUIZ-GOIRIENA: So, I think the thing that we are absolutely seeing and what we've reported at "USA Today" exclusively with this letter that was given to us is that it gives us a -- it gives us a roadmap of what was happening, right. We have confirmation in that letter that there were issues with the garage, that there were issues with the concrete, that there were issues with the pool. And so -- and that they needed about at the time $9 million worth of work. I think the irony here is that they submitted this -- the condo association sent this to the city of Surfside, and the building -- the person who was heading building and permitting said to them, according to meeting minutes, that the building was fine. And then three years later when they're coming up to this 40-year assessment, all of a sudden this has exploded to $16 million worth of work. And this was a communication that the condo association was having with its owners two months ago.

BERMAN: They saw it getting worse over the last three years, which is interesting. And you bring up the money, and I think this is worth addressing here. This was a lot of money that people in this condo building were going to have to pay, and the assessment, one can understand, maybe the reluctance to dive in unless they were told so clearly that this is critical, you have to do this now.

RUIZ-GOIRIENA: So, I have been interviewing families over the course of the last week, and what they tell me about their missing loved ones, a lot of them, is that their missing loved ones had a lot of questions of how these funds were going to be used. I think they understood and were not against doing these reparations, the fixing of the building. That being said, they had no -- they had questions about the management of the funds.

BERMAN: We're learning more every day, thanks largely to the reporting of you and others. Romina, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Thank you for the work you're doing.

RUIZ-GOIRIENA: Thank you so much.

BERMAN: Structural engineers are investigating what trigger event could have caused the collapse. Amid new reporting, the climate crisis could have contributed to this, laid the groundwork for this to happen. We have Tom Foreman at the magic wall to explain the possible contribution here to the building's collapse. Tom?

[08:05:03]

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The fundamental question here, John, is did you have, for some reason, unstable building on an unstable surface. And this report from a researcher at the University of Miami, Brian McNoldy, is really getting a lot of attention. He's saying over the last 40 years he believes the sea level has risen seven to eight inches in this area. Why would that matter so much? It matters, in part, because of what is underneath all the buildings on this little spit of land here, which is where the Champlain Towers are located, right in this area here. This was built on reclaimed, deforested wetlands. Below the surface of all these buildings out here is sand and organic fill. This is not something that was collected over thousands and thousands of years and settled into place. This is something that is much more recent than that.

Now, it is on a plateau of porous limestone, which would be something that was there from way, way back in time. But nonetheless, the question is, if you have a sea rise in that area of that level, what effect does it have on this? Does it create instability? Is that in any way tied to these pictures from the "Miami Herald" from the neighboring part of the building there where they talked about the erosion that was happening here, the water that so many residents had talked about being a consistent problem down below in the parking garage, other places, was that somehow connected to outside water getting in? And did that create some kind of instability beneath everything else there?

Combine that with a building that might have problems and then you have a much bigger problem. And bear in mind, this is something that isn't just a unique problem to this area. Not to be alarmist about this, but simply to point it out, most of the building in this country over the past decades has been near the coast. And right now 40 percent of the U.S. population lives on coastal land, some of it reclaimed like this. That's why it's so -- if the land itself beneath this building was a contributing factor to what happened. John?

BERMAN: This is such important insight, Tom, and such important data points to consider, or I guess in some cases, reconsider. Thank you so much for this.

Erica?

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to turn now to the historic heatwave punishing both coasts. Record breaking temperatures are being reported in California, Oregon, and Washington where air conditioners are scarce. At least three people have died in Washington state, hundreds of heat-related hospital visits. And that's not the only threat. President Biden will hold a virtual meeting with governors from western states today to discuss the growing threat of wildfires in the region. The northeast also baking this morning. Jason Carroll is live in Philadelphia with that top story for us. Jason? JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you,

Erica, from a steamy hot Philadelphia. Philadelphia under another excessive heat warning later today. With the heat and humidity, it's going to feel more like plus-100 degrees. There's splash parks like this that are open providing some sort of relief. The good news is more relief is on the way.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

CARROLL: It's a race to beat the heat, with temperatures rising to dangerous levels for millions on both the east and west coast. Across the border in Canada, temperatures in Vancouver have swelled to over 100 degrees. And the heatwave has turned deadly. More than 230 deaths have been reported in British Columbia since Friday. In northern California, dry conditions are fueling multiple blazes, including the lava fire. The extreme temperatures making conditions even more difficult for at least 400 firefighters battling that blaze.

JIM MACKENSEN, PUBLIC INFORMATION OFFICER, U.S. FOREST SERVICE: My biggest concern today is it's very, very windy. Very, very hot extreme temperatures.

CARROLL: Boston is expected to hit its third day in the upper 90s today, making it challenging for firefighters working to put out a seven-alarm fire just outside the city on Tuesday. In Portland, after three days of triple digit temperatures, peaking at 116 degrees Monday, the fire and rescue department announced fireworks will be banned indefinitely ahead of the holiday weekend. Heat-related illnesses sending hundreds of people to local emergency rooms and urgent care clinics.

JENNIFER VINES, MULTNOMAH COUNTY HEALTH OFFICER: They are very busy. They have been distributing patients and working to make more room in the hospitals to help with some of the logjams.

CARROLL: And in Seattle, a new record high of 108 degrees Monday. The extreme weather wreaking havoc on Washington's roads, causing some to crack and buckle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's scary. You never know when you could be the one who falls into it, a sinkhole.

CARROLL: In New York City, as temperatures hit the high 90s, air conditioning service crews are working around the clock to install and fix units.

[08:10:00]

Some cities are getting creative to keep residents cool. Philadelphia turning six air-conditioned buses into cooling centers. Across the country, places from libraries to public pools are staying busy as people look for any form of relief.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The most important thing is just the knowledge of how to stay cool, and then the locations now that COVID is over of how to contact and get to cooling centers. (END VIDEO TAPE)

CARROLL: And again here in Philadelphia, some relief on the way. Public pools will be reopening starting today, Erica, but not nearly the number that the city wants. About 70 percent of public pools will be opening. The reason being they're not opening more, they can't find enough lifeguards to work those pools. But again, as I said, relief is on the way for the northeast. Temperatures expected to cool off starting tomorrow. Erica?

HILL: Jason Carroll from that hot and steamy Philadelphia this morning. Jason, thank you.

Joining me now, CNN chief climate correspondent Bill Weir. It's so troubling when we look at these numbers. And it's bad here in the northeast, right. It feels more like August than the end of June. But I have to say what scares me is what we're seeing in the pacific northwest and what we're seeing in Canada. You said those temperatures are setting world records.

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: They set a record in British Columbia yesterday that is higher than the all-time record in South America and Europe, a record that was set in Athens, Greece in the Mediterranean. This is British Columbia, which a lot of people thought would be a climate haven because of its location, because of the moist air that's always there. And these folks are just not prepared for this. The infrastructure is not there. We've been doing stories about how these are Portland, Seattle, some of the least air conditioned places in the world.

And it really, Erica, gets to debate over infrastructure. We've been talking about this. People think about bridges and roads, which are buckling under the heat in some places now. But climate change really forces us to make these sort of Sophie's choice decisions about mitigation, how much do we spend trying to stop the problem and decarbonizing this huge economy. And how much goes into adaptation, that's hardening your cities.

In Miami, they're raising the streets and putting in bigger sewage pumps as a result of those rising levels. But that doesn't help those 12-story condos that were built in the 80s, as we saw there, that are increasingly vulnerable there. It's flooding in the Midwest, it's heat everywhere, it's drought in the west, and this is what I think Joe Biden is trying to get at with some resiliency spending. A lot of people are, what's that for? Well, it might be for a cooling station in Seattle. Or it might be in a construction grant in Miami that saves some lives.

HILL: You talk about this Sophie's choice of mitigation and adaptation. I think there's been so much focus on the fact that there isn't a lot of -- there aren't a lot of air conditioning units in the pacific northwest. But that seems like a band aid that in many ways could have a larger problem, right? Not that people don't need to cool off because it is literally deadly. The heat can be. But if we're fixing that with perhaps another drain on a power system at a separate infrastructure issue, where does that end? WEIR: Well, that's it. That's the really bedeviling problem of this

challenge. In order to survive, we need to cling to the old energy system that got us here, right. And it's estimated off the charts 50, 100 million new air conditioners will be added every year as more people in Southeast Asia, in China become middle class, and they want to stay cool as well. And what we really need to be doing as a species is adding carbon capture machines to the system as the same rate as air conditioning to try to balance it out. Unfortunately, it's going completely in the wrong direction, out of necessity, out of survival.

HILL: That's a lot to think about. Not the last time you and I will talk about this. Thank you. Good to see you.

The new Delta variant now accounts for a quarter of COVID cases in the United States. The surgeon general of the United States joins us next.

Plus, an epic election screw-up mars New York City's race for mayor. We have got live reaction from candidate Kathryn Garcia.

And CNN is on the be ground in Afghanistan. With the withdrawal of troops now just days away, new warning of a looming civil war.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:57]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: With the Delta variant in nearly every state across the country, and now accounting for just over 26 percent of cases in the U.S., concerns are rising about the spread of this more dangerous, more transmissible strain of COVID-19.

We want to bring in now the United States surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy.

Always good to have you with us, sir.

When we look at this increase in the average number of daily cases -- it's slightly up -- is that a direct result of the Delta variant?

DR. VIVEK MURTHY, SURGEON GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, Erica, I'm concerned about the Delta variant, and I am worried that what we are seeing in terms of the plateauing of cases nationally but also an increase in cases in many small sections of the United States, that is, in fact, being driven by the Delta variant.

HILL: So, as we're looking at that, we're also seeing some measures. A lot of attention being paid to health officials in L.A. County who are now recommending that everyone mask up indoors, even if fully vaccinated.

Do you think that's the right move? The WHO just essentially said the same thing.

MURTHY: Well, Erica, you know, it's important to recognize that the reason some of these measures are being taken is that people are looking at Delta and they're worried.

And so, why are they worried about Delta? Because we learned that this virus is -- it's a variant of COVID, it's highly transmissible, the most transmissible that we've seen to date.

The good news is if you are vaccinated and fully vaccinated means two weeks after your last shot, then there is good evidence that you have a high degree of protection against this virus.

But if you are not vaccinated, then you are in trouble. This is, again, a serious threat and we are seeing it spread among unvaccinated people. Some localities like L.A. and others may make decisions to try to further limit the spread, you know, of the virus. And whether that's through masking or other measures, but what the data tells us so far -- the reason the CDC made its earlier decision on masking, if you are fully vaccinated, your chances of getting sick and transmitting the infection are low.

So the key is -- key message really from Delta is get vaccinated. It's the best way to protect yourself from this variant and from other variants that we've seen before.

[08:20:01]

HILL: So, then, to your point about the protection that the vaccines do offer, even against the Delta variant, is L.A. County overreacting?

MURTHY: Well, I wouldn't say, you know, they're overreacting. What I would say is localities like L.A. County and others absolutely have the right to make decisions based on what they're seeing in their counties.

If I was in a community that had a low vaccination rate, as a number of our communities do around the country, if I was seeing a rise in the Delta variant, I think it's perfectly reasonable to think of different approaches we could take to limit spread to get ahead of it.

I think the takeaway message for individuals is that if you are fully vaccinated, again, you are quite protected. Nothing is 100 percent, though. So if there are individuals out there who may be at higher risk or who may live with unvaccinated individuals, then certainly if you want to make the decision to continue wearing a mask, that's a reasonable thing to do and some people have done that.

But the science tells us and the reason the CDC made their earlier decision, again, your chances of getting sick and transmitting are low if you're fully vaccinated.

One last point, though, here, is we can't guarantee that will always be the case with new variants that may arise down the line. That is why it's so important that we crush this virus as much as we can here at home and support other countries in their effort to quell the virus because the unchecked spread of the virus anywhere means more variants may arise.

HILL: Right. So to your point, on a couple of those points actually, as we look at where we're at, if things do get worse, if there is another variant that pops up, getting people to go back to where we were, even just a few months ago, is admittedly going to be difficult.

And as you know, there's been a lot of pushback on the CDC's messaging both in how long it took to come out with recommendations for fully vaccinated people in terms of what they could do, and even when they were first released -- I believe it was back in late may -- Dr. Fauci said he thought people were misinterpreting the guidance.

Last night he said he doesn't expect it to change. You said you don't expect it to change, but maybe we should think about it. The mixed messaging is still causing a lot of confusion for people.

MURTHY: Well, Erica, the CDC's approach to their guidance is based on what the latest evidence says. So if there is a shift in the evidence base in the science, then they will update their guidance accordingly. But they will wait until that actually happens.

And to this point, what they are seeing is the evidence is still strong that if you are fully vaccinated, that, again, you're protected against getting infected and against passing on the infection. The risk of both of those happening are very low, which is why they kept their guidance the way it is. But their commitment is to keep a very close eye on that data and to update it, you know, as data changes, and that's what scientists should do.

HILL: So, you mentioned, you know, parents or maybe somebody who lives with a person who may have a compromised immune system.

For parents of children who are not yet eligible to get the vaccine -- you know, I have an 11-year-old, I have a 14-year-old. One is fully vaccinated, one is not eligible. The rest of us are all fully vaccinated in the household.

So should we start to think more about when we are in public places to protect him, should we be masking up regardless?

MURTHY: Well, it's a great question, Erica. I think about this as well because I have two small kids who are 3 and 4 and who are not vaccinated because there is not a vaccine available for their age group yet. And the way I think about it, it depends what's happening in your community. Is there a lot of virus spreading in your community? Are vaccination rates high or low in your community?

That depends a bit on your exposure as well. Are you in a job, for example, or work setting where you're exposed to a lot of people who are unvaccinated and who may be carrying the virus and who are unmasked? And I think it's very reasonable for parents who are living with kids who are unvaccinated for that member or other family members who are unvaccinated to consider wearing a mask if they are in a high- risk area or if their job requires a high degree of exposure.

So the goal is, again, here to create some flexibility so people can make decisions based on their situation and their risk odds.

HILL: When we look at where we stand now as a country, 46 percent of the total population, 46 percent is now fully vaccinated. A professor of immunology at Johns Hopkins University who is studying the virus just told CNN, every time a virus gets better at transmitting, the number of people that have to be vaccinated to reach herd immunity increases.

Given that, what does the percentage need to look like for us to reach herd immunity given the Delta variant?

MURTHY: It is -- I'm glad you asked this question, Erica. The question is what number we need to hit. And the truth is, we don't know the exact number.

But it is true, when you get we get more invariance, it increases the number to prevent ongoing community spread. While we don't know what the exact number is, what we do know is the more people we get vaccinated in the country, the fewer people will get infected and will be hospitalized and the less community transmission that we will have.

[08:25:06]

It's one of the reasons why, in parts of the country, Erica, where you're seeing high degrees of vaccination, 70 percent, 80 percent vaccination, we're not seeing the size and scope of outbreaks that we're seeing in other parts of the country where we have much lower vaccination rates in the 30, 40 percent range.

So the key take away message is especially given the Delta variant with increased transmissibility, it increases the importance of us getting vaccinated ourselves. But then turning around to our family and friends and asking them if they've gotten vaccinated and urging them to go to a vaccine setup, find a place near them where they can get vaccinated quickly because that is our safest and quickest path to safety.

HILL: As you know, there is -- you know, as Dr. Fauci said last night right here on CNN, he's concerned about this increasing divide in America -- the vaccinated and the unvaccinated. We can see the numbers in areas that have lower vaccination rates in terms of new cases, in terms of even hospitalizations as we saw in the Midwest over the last couple of weeks.

All of that to say, you know, we've talked a lot -- I talked with officials the last couple weeks about, you know, what's left in the tool box to convince people who have not yet gotten a shot that it's time to do so. It seems like there isn't much left. The messaging has been put out there.

Do you think if you were to double down on perhaps some of the misinformation that's out there, tackling infertility, for example, there has been no link shown that the vaccines in any way could hinder a woman's fertility, and yet this is a myth that persists. So in doubling down on some of those issues, do you think maybe that could help?

MURTHY: Well, I think it's a really insightful point. And I think you're spot on that misinformation is driving a lot of the challenges we have on getting our country vaccinated. Two-thirds of people who are unvaccinated either believe common myths about the COVID vaccine or think those myths might be true.

One of those myths is around the vaccine and connection to infertility. And to be very clear, there is no evidence to suggest in any way the vaccine causes infertility or causes DNA mutations. Absolutely no evidence of that. Yet, we see those myths circulating.

There's more social media platforms can do to prevent the spread of the myths online. There's more we can do as individuals to talk to our family and friends to ask if they have questions about the vaccine help dispel some of those myths.

And, finally, people have questions about this, just recognize that talking to your doctor, talking to a health care professional you trust, is a very important pathway to getting the right information. It's hard to make sense of what's out there. Talk to somebody who is credible.

If you're not sure that a story is credible, don't share it online. That's one of the most powerful ways through which misinformation spreads.

HILL: Yeah, that is advice that we could use in a number of areas, as we all know. Give us a sense -- you know, there's been some talk about boosters. There's actually been a fair amount of talk about boosters.

Where do we stand at this point? When will we know, do you think, definitively whether boosters will be needed?

MURTHY: Well, this has been a really important question we've been discussing a lot inside government as well. And what we are doing is we are following a number of cohorts of individuals around the country to see if there's any evidence that their protection is waning, that it's decreasing over time.

What we saw at the six-month mark with the mRNA vaccines was that protection was still pretty robust and we expect it will likely continue to be robust several months after that mark. But time will really tell.

I can tell you this. As soon as we see a dip in protection, we will be ready to convey that to the public with a plan for how and when to get people boosted. But at this point, we can't tell you with clarity if it's going to be in three months, in six months, in a year down the line. We'll have to wait. Time will tell.

HILL: I've been hearing a lot from folks that the pandemic is over. What do you say to that?

MURTHY: Well, I've been hearing this, too, from people, and what I say is the pandemic is absolutely not over. What is true is that we made extraordinary progress over the last six to seven months. If you told me a year ago when we were at an extraordinarily difficult point in time in this pandemic when we had lost so many people -- we were seeing infection rates rise. If you had told me a year later, we would have multiple vaccines and that we would have administered more than 325 million doses of those vaccines to people across our country, I would have said, wow, that's kind of ambitious.

But that's where we are and we have saved undoubtedly thousands of lives as a result. But the Delta variant and the data that we have been seeing over the last few weeks tells us very clearly there is a lot of virus circulating in our country. We are still losing close to 300 people a day to coronavirus, which is just far too many.

So this is not over, and the virus wins when we let our guard down, when we take our eye off the ball. We've seen many times that it's fooled us in the past. We have to stay vigilant. We have to get vaccinated. We have to talk to other people about getting vaccinated.

And in the long term, we've got to recognize this. The cost of this pandemic is not just lives lost.