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Chicago Mayor Insists Violent Crime In City Is Down, But Is It? New Book: Bill Barr Used DOJ As Political Tool For Trump; More Americans To Seek Jobs As Unemployment Benefits Lapse. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 05, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Scott, thank you

BRIA SCOTT, HOWARD UNIVERSITY SENIOR (via Skype): Thank you.

KEILAR: Chicago's holiday weekend was marred by violence. So is crime really going down like the mayor says?

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: And a revealing new look at the lengths Bill Barr went to protect President Trump and his own legacy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: It was a violent holiday weekend in Chicago. Ten people reportedly killed and more than 30 wounded in shootings across the city as Mayor Lori Lightfoot is publicly insisting that crime in her city is down, which led to this tense exchange with a reporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you feel personally responsible for the -- your rhetoric -- your heated rhetoric is responsible for this off-the-charts violent crime in the city of Chicago?

[07:35:00]

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D), CHICAGO: The premise of your question, which is it's chaos everywhere -- and the fact of the matter is, sir -- which you also didn't point out, but I will so we get this straight -- is that we're actually seeing a decline in homicides and shootings. Yes, sir -- you --

REPORTER: But there are thousands -- Do you owe an apology to the victims of violent crime? The thousands of unsolved shootings and murders and stabbings and random stabbings in the downtown and the South Side and the North Side and the West Side? Do you owe -- do you owe these people any apology?

LIGHTFOOT: So once again, sir, I'd ask you to get your facts right. Crime is not out of control in our city. In fact, crime is on the decline. All of our major indices show that the decline in crime and our

homicides and our shootings year-over-year are down. That's a fact, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: All right. CNN's Omar Jimenez is with us now from Chicago. And, Omar, I know that you've been looking at Chicago's crime statistics. What can you tell us about what is the truth here?

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Brianna. The fact is we are seeing some significant decreases in homicides, especially compared to the beginning of the year and especially compared to this point last year.

Now, when you look through the numbers through June 30th, for the first time this year, the number of homicides -- through June 30th, again -- was down compared to the same time last year. So you see the number of homicides down.

And the number of shooting victims is still up though, roughly 14 percent, with the number of shootings up 10 percent. One thing to keep in mind though, for perspective, is that in January, the numbers of shootings was up 46 percent compared to the same time last year. It was down to 20 percent in May and now, here we are at 10. So, still up but trending in the right direction.

And then when you look at the month of June alone, a roughly 20 percent drop in homicides compared to June of 2020, which is critical -- that first month of summer violence so to speak. And then when you look at the number of shootings and shooting victims, also down as well.

Now, there is still significant work to be done, of course. Look at this past weekend. At least 10 people killed and even more shot.

And also, to keep in mind that these numbers are compared to what was already a spike in violence over the course of 2020. When you compare it to 2019, the number of homicides is still up 35 percent compared to that year, and that was a year where homicides had been -- had been decreasing for a third year in a row.

But it is a good start to summer here when you see the trend of where these numbers are going.

I actually asked the Chicago police superintendent about this when I spoke to him not too long ago -- about a week ago or so. And he said that even though the potential for violence goes up when you have a reopened summer and more people back out on the streets, he also says it allows them to get back into more of a regular rhythm of managing the violence. And it's something similar to what Mayor Lori Lightfoot told me as well.

KEILAR: All right, Omar. Thank you for taking us through that -- appreciate it.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

JOHN AVLON, CNN ANCHOR: Was former attorney general Bill Barr Donald Trump's hatchet man? In Barr's first act in office, the rollout of the Mueller report, to scandals that are bubbling up months after his departure, including how the DOJ seized reporters' phone records, Barr's tenure has drawn unprecedented scrutiny and uproar.

Joining me now to discuss is Elie Honig, senior political and legal analyst for CNN and author of the new book, "Hatchet Man: How Bill Barr Broke the Prosecutor's Code and Corrupted the Justice Department." It hits bookshelves tomorrow. Elie, welcome, congratulations. Thank you for joining us for your first book interview.

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND LEGAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HATCHET MAN: HOW BILL BARR BROKE THE PROSECUTOR'S CODE AND CORRUPTED THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT": Thank you, John. It is my first book. I actually saw it -- I don't know if this is allowed or not -- it's on the bookshelves now. I saw it this weekend. And that's a moment, as you know, having written a book yourself.

AVLON: It is a big -- it is a big moment.

HONIG: Yes.

AVLON: And that means people can go out and buy it, which is you're saying. Let's go do that. The initial sales matter the most.

You know, this is a really well-written book, not surprisingly. You do not need to be a lawyer to appreciate kind of the moral story it tells and how it contrasts with your life as a prosecutor, given the surprising absence of prosecution experience at the top of Bill Barr's Justice Department.

HONIG: Yes.

AVLON: I want to ask though -- you don't pull any punches. You come right out towards the top and say Bill Barr is a liar.

HONIG: Yes.

AVLON: They're strong words. Why?

HONIG: I thought hard about whether to say it that way or not because both fields that I've worked in, the law and now media, we're hesitant -- and I think healthfully so -- to call somebody a liar. I mean, it's the most dirty four-letter word you can call somebody.

However, I decided look, I'm not pulling punches here. The man lied to us not just once, not just twice, but over and over throughout his tenure, including starting with the Mueller report but many things beyond that.

The firing of the Southern District U.S. Attorney. You remember that --

AVLON: Yes.

HONIG: -- when he said oh, he's stepping down. A few hours later, the U.S. Attorney said no, I'm not.

He lied to us about the threat of election fraud.

So things large and small throughout his tenure -- I'm not willing to let that sit. I'm not willing to let that be. I'm going to call it out.

And by the way, I'm not alone. Federal judges -- multiple federal judges have called him out over the years for obfuscating, for not being credible. They've questioned whether he's being truthful, saying his statements do not align with the facts. All the polite ways of saying liar. I'm not going to be polite. He's a liar.

[07:40:09]

AVLON: So let's talk about what motivates that --

HONIG: Yes.

AVLON: -- right? Because he came in and he seemed like he was comparatively adult. Served as attorney general --

HONIG: Right.

AVLON: -- under Bush 41.

But he began this pattern of really pushing the Trump agenda. And I want to play -- show a quote from the book that really explains this.

It says, "Barr didn't merely sit by and let DOJ get dragged into politics by Trump or others -- he made it happen himself, by design and with gusto, often directly in response to Trump's corrupt entreaties."

Is this the case, do you think, of someone who changed and became more political, or was Barr always this partisan?

HONIG: I think he changed. I think he saw an opportunity. So, you're right -- to set the stage here.

Bill Barr is one of two people in U.S. history to be attorney general twice. He was A.G. from '91 to '93 under George H.W. Bush, Sr. Then, for 25 years, he essentially disappeared from public view. He made a fortune at law firms and at big corporations.

And then people say why? Why did he want this job back in 2018 after Trump had just browbeaten Jeff Sessions? And I offer two explanations based on Bill Barr's words and actions in the book.

First, Bill Barr has this extreme view of the law. He views the president and the presidency as above and beyond. And he took that to such an extreme where he lost continually in courts. But his view was the president is above the law. You can't subpoena

him. You can't question him. You can't do anything to him. I think that's wrong and the courts have rejected that.

The other thing that I think is less known and less understood about Bill Barr is he is what I call a real culture warrior, right?

AVLON: Yes.

HONIG: And he gave a little bit of a hint of this towards the end of his tenure when he made this speech at Notre Dame talking about the importance of -- and I quote -- "God's law." Now that's an extreme, alarming thing for an attorney general to say.

And we dug back and found speeches and articles that Bill Barr had written in the 90s saying even more extreme things about how were we going to retake the Hill in favor of religiosity? The only true organizing principle is religiosity.

He used to rail against -- and I quote -- "the homosexual movement" and blame that for the downfall of society.

And so, I think those motivations really pushed Barr to not only pursue the A.G. job but then to abuse it.

AVLON: So, how unusual -- I mean, that culture war talk --

HONIG: Yes.

AVLON: -- even from the evangelical right -- is something we've become used to over recent decades. But how unusual is it for an attorney general to speak that way from literally the pulpit at Notre Dame?

HONIG: It's completely unacceptable to speak that way as the attorney general. If you want to speak that way as a candidate for office, as a preacher, as just a person --

AVLON: A person of faith, yes.

HONIG: -- yes, of faith -- God bless -- no pun intended. However, not as a prosecutor.

I mean, I was raised at the Justice Department. I write about it in the book. That the only things you have going for you are your credibility, right? You never lie. You never stretch the truth. If you have a bad fact, own it. Bill Barr destroyed that.

And your independence. You are not part of politics. You are not part of religion. You are not part of any agenda.

And that's why I wrote this book because I sat here -- a lot of times at this desk -- for two years --

AVLON: Yes.

HONIG: -- watching what he was doing to my beloved Justice Department that I was raised in, and trashing those core fundamental principles.

AVLON: And I think that's one of the things your book does such a great explaining is the norms that the Justice Department is based upon, the experience over decades.

You know, Barr's been on a rehab tour. You have written about this. And you've also pointed out that while he may have finally hit what was too much for him in Donald Trump's grasping for executive power, that the idea that he wasn't part of the problem in the run-up to the election is just wrong.

Let's play a clip of him talking to our own Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAM BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: Elections that have been held with mail have found substantial fraud and coercion.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SITUATION ROOM WITH WOLF BLITZER": As far as widespread fraud, we haven't seen that since -

BARR: Well, we haven't -- we haven't had the kind of widespread use of mail-in ballots as being proposed.

BLITZER: You've said you were worried that a foreign country could send thousands of fake ballots -- thousands of fake ballots to people and it might be impossible to detect. What are you basing that on?

BARR: I'm basing that -- as I've said repeatedly, I'm basing that on logic.

BLITZER: Pardon?

BARR: Logic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: So, in that clip, was he being a true believer? A loyal soldier? Was he lying then or was he lying now?

HONIG: He was lying then and he's trying to fix it now. And I do not accept that. That's part of the reason I wrote this book.

And I'm glad he's trying to rehabilitate his image -- Bill Barr -- and claim oh, I came out against the big lie. He did in December. But he's failing to tell us that in that interview with Wolf and for months prior to that, he was one of the primary proponents. He was fanning the flames of the big lie. I lay it all out in the book.

And look, one of the hallmarks I think of the entire Trump administration -- Bill Barr and many others -- is this idea we saw earlier -- Donald Trump -- the clip where he says if you say it enough times people will believe you.

[07:45:00] There is such a thing as truth. There is such a thing as accountability. The truth is Bill Barr is one of the primary proponents. He is one of the people primarily to blame for the big lie. And January sixth -- I don't care what he says now, he bears some responsibility for that as well.

Accountability matters and truth matters.

AVLON: Truth matters, indeed.

Elie Honig, congratulations --

HONIG: Thanks, John. I appreciate it.

AVLON: -- on the new book, "Hatchet Man," out tomorrow and in bookstores today.

All right. We've got stunning new details about Britney Spears' conservatorship battle and why she reportedly called 911 the day before her emotional testimony.

KEILAR: And, 11 men charged in a nine-hour armed standoff with police in Massachusetts. Who are they and what kind of threat does their group pose?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

AVLON: All right. Whether you're one of the millions of Americans who lost their job during the pandemic and are looking for work or you're entering the job market for the first time, a post-pandemic work search is uncharted territory.

[07:50:04]

Joining us now is Ken Lindner, celebrity talent agent and veteran career counselor. His best-selling Amazon book, "Career Choreography: Your Step-by-Step Guide to Finding the Right Job and Achieving Huge Success and Happiness" is out now. Ken, great to have you on NEW DAY.

This pandemic has completely changed the job market, right? I mean -- but what about folks who are entering the workforce for the first time? What challenges are they facing, specifically?

KEN LINDNER, TALENT AGENT AND CAREER COUNSELOR, AUTHOR, "CAREER CHOREOGRAPHY: YOUR STEP-BY-STEP GUIDE TO FINDING THE RIGHT JOB AND ACHIEVING HUGE SUCCESS AND HAPPINESS" (via Skype): Well, John, the challenges that they face is they don't have experience to fall back on. And with so many people wanting jobs, employers can choose the best person -- the most qualified person for the job. So if you don't have experience, you're a little bit of a detriment.

But the key is employers will buy potential. That person entering the workforce for the first time must show that they have the potential to be great in the job that they're applying for.

AVLON: How do you show that? LINDNER: Well, I think you show it by being prepared. The internet is a great resource. Be prepared. Know all about the company you're interviewing with. Hopefully, the person -- you know who that person is before you interview. You do your homework for them.

Because I know, as an employer, how somebody represents themselves in an interview with me is how they'll represent my company should I hire them. So it's important to be buttoned-up and prepared and know what it is that makes you special.

Think about the things you've done in past summer jobs, your internships, your school life, your personal life that qualifies you and sets you apart and makes you special so you positively separate yourself from other candidates.

AVLON: So that's really the effort. I mean, the latest Labor Department data shows there were 850,000 new jobs in June, right, which is the strongest one-month gain since at least last summer.

LINDNER: Yes.

AVLON: So you think that doing your homework and thinking about what makes you special, that's enough to help folks stand out from the pack in a competitive job market, even when they don't have experience?

LINDNER: Well, I think -- that two things. And also, John, having great references. Because references can be really important because they know you. And if it's close, a reference -- a really terrific, compelling individual can really make the difference in one getting a job.

So there a number of components that can help somebody show their potential. Another thing is to really be anticipatory. Have a sense of what they're going to ask you and how you can advance a company. Know about that company.

As I said, do your homework and then get responses that show that you've given great thought and that you have the ability to really make a difference for the company you're interviewing with.

AVLON: It's great advice. References definitely make a difference. I can attest to that.

You say -- I love this. You say there's three things to keep in mind: find a job you love, a job you believe in, and a job you're good at. That really covers --

LINDNER: Yes.

AVLON: -- all of the key bases in life but especially, as unemployment benefits are expiring in September.

When should passion take a backseat to just securing a job for folks?

LINDNER: Well, I think passion is always important. An employer wants passion. They want somebody who is excited to be there, who's going to grow. Who is going to own the opportunity. So I think passion's always important.

But, as you said, the three things -- if you love what you do and if you can't wait to go to work every day, if you believe in what you do and you're proud of what you're doing and you're being productive, and you do what you're good at, the first two criteria will help you be happy in your job, which is so important. You want meaning in your job.

And doing what you are good at will hopefully be the criterion that makes you successful. And you want both. You want to be happy and you want to be successful.

AVLON: And the two will lead to each other. Doors will open where there were no doors before.

LINDNER: Yes.

AVLON: Ken Lindner, the book is "Career Choreography." Thank you so much for joining us on NEW DAY.

LINDNER: Thanks, John -- it's a pleasure.

KEILAR: There are controversies brewing ahead of the Olympic Games, set to kick off later this month in Tokyo.

The International Olympic Committee suspending star American sprinter Sha'Carri Richardson after she failed a drug test for marijuana. Unable to race, Richardson tweeted this. "I'm sorry I can't be your Olympic champ this year. But I promise I'll be your world champ next year. All these perfect people that know how to live life, I'm glad I'm not one of them."

Let's bring in Christine Brennan, who is a CNN sports analyst and "USA Today" sports columnist.

You know, I know that you have been watching these developments so carefully, Christine. It's very upsetting I think to a lot of fans to not be able to see Sha'Carri Richardson participating in this Games. And I just wonder what you're thinking about how she has responded to this and how this might change things going forward.

[07:55:14]

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST, SPORTS COLUMNIST, USA TODAY (via Webex by Cisco): Brianna, this is a sports tragedy. This is a young woman, 21 years old, who was ready to burst on the scene. She had done it nationally.

And now the Olympics were coming. A gold medal favorite. Could have made millions because of that. She's flamboyant, she's fast, she's fun. Everything about her was screaming out I'm going to be a star.

And then, when she found her biological mother passed away, she went into a tailspin emotionally and she reached for marijuana.

One hopes and wishes that she could have had someone from USA Track and Field -- a mental health topline -- something. I think that's one thing the -- every Olympic committee around the world should have available for athletes more readily or the athletes know exists so instead of maybe getting into trouble because she knew, of course, marijuana was a banned substance.

Now, a lot of people are saying why is it banned, right? Well, the U.S. -- we understand it sounds ridiculous now but this is over 200 countries in the world marking up these decisions, many of which still criminalize it and even throw people in jail. So it's not just a U.S. decision.

But the heartache for this young woman, and then as you mentioned the way she handled it beautifully -- class, dignity. She didn't try to deny it, Brianna. She didn't do what Lance Armstrong did and try to throw people under the bus.

No, she stood up, she said I did it. She didn't fight it. She said I take my suspension. And I think that's going to hold her in great stead moving forward as someone who is such a class act handing this difficult time which such grace.

KEILAR: Well, as you say, she did handle this with grace. I wonder if things are going to change moving forward when it comes to these rules. It sounds like maybe it won't because of all the other nations that are involved in making this rule.

BRENNAN: One would hope that this would be a tipping point -- a watershed moment -- and I think it might be. So, yes, there are a lot of countries out there, as I said. This is not a U.S. decision. So I think sometimes, obviously, we look at things through the prism of the red, white, and blue -- of our country and what we think. And that can work sometimes but on an international stage, as we're about to see in Tokyo at the Olympics, that may not be the case.

But I do think -- we're already hearing -- I'm talking to sources. They're saying they've got to do something about this. This is -- this is the big one. This is --

So, while Sha'Carri pays a huge price, one hopes that she might still have a chance in Riyadh. But she pays a huge price with another Olympics three years away, not four. So that's good news --

KEILAR: Yes.

BRENNAN: -- the Paris (audio gap).

Let's hope that there is movement now to take marijuana off the banned substance list.

KEILAR: I want to talk now about something else that is popping up about the Olympics and that has to do with a type of cap for swimming -- a soul cap, as it is called -- and certainly favored by one Black swimmer, which is a rarity, quite frankly. And it is to accommodate, especially for women, natural hair.

And this has been banned for use in the upcoming Tokyo Olympics. The International Swimming Federation says that these caps don't fit the natural form of the head and that athletes don't require them.

I wonder how you're -- how you're viewing this controversy.

BRENNAN: There's good news here, Brianna. In the last couple of hours, FINA -- that is that national -- international governing body for swimming -- the federation -- has said it's going to reconsider its decision.

The outpouring over the last 48 hours has been extraordinary on this. And unlike what we were just talking about where things are set in stone, this could be something they could change their mind.

And I think it's a terrible look for swimming because what is swimming trying to do right now? It's trying to diversify. It's trying to become more inclusive around the world and in the United States. Very, very few Black children are swimming compared to white children. And it's about safety and the health and learning how to swim.

Michael Phelps and others have really championed this cause just to keeping kids safe, much less making them Olympians at some point -- elite swimmers. And most of these organizations around the world are failing in terms of attracting a more diverse child -- to a more diverse audience to their sport.

So that's the bigger picture that swimming was basically putting a stop sign saying forget about it. Don't -- if you're -- if you're Black, if you're a person of color, don't even think about it. And that's a devastating message to send. I think that's another reason why they're reconsidering it this morning and I think that's a good thing.

KEILAR: Totally. I mean, they have to say you belong in swimming. And that means saying that your hair belongs in swimming. It is so important that is said.

Christine Brennan, thank you so much.

NEW DAY continues right now.

BRENNAN: Brianna, thank you.

KEILAR: I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Avlon on this new day.

And the search has just resumed for victims of the Surfside condo collapse after the still-standing.