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Grant Woods is Interviewed about Investigating for Election Meddling; Ryan Lochte is Interviewed about the Tokyo Olympics; Zaila Avant-garde is Interviewed about Her Spelling Bee Win; Biden Hits Road for Vaccines. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 09, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

GRANT WOODS, FORMER ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: That's been going on for months and months and months. And now we see that, much like in Georgia, we had the president trying to call in and influence folks. We had Rudy Giuliani trying to influence elected officials here as to how they did their job. And we had the chairman of the Republican Party in Arizona.

Now, her, we have on tape. And she's saying, you need to stop the count. You need to stop counting votes right now. You know, that's -- that needs to be investigated. And that could be a potential crime for sure.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Arizona Senate is conducting its own recount of the total number of Maricopa County ballots cast in last fall's election. So this is something that just keeps happening and happening, even after this fraud-it (ph) that the Senate had already pushed.

Do you worry about the security of future elections in Arizona?

WOODS: Well, I worry here, like in other places around the country, when we have Republican legislatures trying to change the rules so that maybe they could have jurisdiction and they could step in and subvert the will of the people, that's the -- that's the problem going forward. That's why the Congress needs -- and the Senate in particular, needs to pass serious voter protection here to overcome that, because clearly what's going on in Arizona shows that anything can happen.

I mean the chimp over at the Phoenix Zoo counts faster than these people. They've been going on for like, you know, four or five months. The ballots are 100 percent insecure. Apparently they've traveled somehow to a cabin in Montana and now they're going to come back and they're going to try to count them all again.

Brianna, one of the reasons they're counting them again is they have no idea how many they have apparently.

Now, when I was A.G., I did get to supervise a recount once because the secretary of state was involved in the election and he was on the ballot. And, boy, you do these things in meticulous fashion. You follow all the rules. You make sure that every "t" is crossed and "i" is dotted.

These people have no clue what they're doing. This is not serious. It's a political stunt. And -- and this -- we'll see what the results are. But what they're going to say is, you know, that there was some sort of miscount or whatever. And then Trump and the rest of them will run with that. And so it's part of the big lie. It just continues on.

KEILAR: Yes, it is a zoo. It's a circus, right, as we're watching this.

I want to talk to you about quite the interview that you had recently about your former boss and friend, the late John McCain, and how he felt about former President Trump. You said, he called it as he saw it, and he thought Trump was an asshole and he thought he was an idiot. What else did the late senator think privately -- I think we sort of got an impression, right? It's not as if he completely, you know, kept those cards close to his vest.

WOODS: Yes.

KEILAR: But tell us about what he thought about him.

WOODS: Yes. Yes, I -- I don't know that it's really -- I know you guys love breaking news, but I don't know if it's breaking news that John McCain thought Trump was an asshole. But, he did. We all did, OK. So, there's that.

But, you know, the interesting thing to me always was, you know, like many, I would be outraged daily by Trump's antics and the things that he did as a candidate, and then as president. And McCain was interesting. John kind of took it all in stride. He really spent very little time thinking about Trump, talking about Trump, or worrying about Trump. He -- I mean John McCain was at a certain point in his life, with what he had done, with his military career, with his governmental career, and he looked at Trump as an aberration and someone who was not a serious person, someone who we had to deal with because ultimately he was elected.

And I think when he -- when he started taking him more and more seriously is when he saw the demagoguery get out of control, when he saw the autocratic tendencies come to the surface. And, of course, when we saw him early on knocking the POWs and challenging them and then ultimately a great disrespect to the military. That cut to the heart of John McCain and his life.

And I did mention there that I talked to John three times on the day that Trump said, McCain's not a hero because he was shot down, and that POWs then weren't heroes. And I will tell you, it did not bother him in the least.

[08:35:01]

He just, like, OK, whatever. This guy. Until he started talking to and thinking about his fellow POWs. And

when he thought about them, it's one thing for John McCain to be able to brush this aside, but these are people now who are, you know, they were up in years, and you were going right at their identity. They were heroes. They are heroes. And they had never heard anyone, anyone anywhere say that they weren't heroes until this. And now, all of a sudden, when you're 80 years old, you've got to defend your actions when you were serving your country? And, in John's case, five and a half years as a prisoner of war. You know, it was a clue to the character of the man. But, again, McCain, he shook it off. It didn't really bother him, except as to how it affected others.

KEILAR: It reflects how he served as well when he was a POW, relating to himself and relating to those around him as well.

WOODS: That's right.

KEILAR: Grant, thank you so much for being with us, former Arizona attorney general. We appreciate it.

WOODS: Thanks, Brianna.

KEILAR: No fans in the stands at the summer games. How big of a letdown is that for athletes who have trained a lifetime for Olympic glory? Gold Medalist Ryan Lochte will join us next.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And then another champion joins us, the National Spelling Bee winner. Wait until you hear about everything that she can do.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:32]

BERMAN: The official kickoff to the summer Olympics in Tokyo exactly two weeks from today, but in most venues, there won't be a single spectator in the stands to cheer on the athletes. Tokyo is entering its fourth state of emergency as coronavirus cases rapidly rise there. And just 15 percent of the country is fully vaccinated.

Joining me now is 12-time Olympic medalist, the second most decorated U.S. male Olympian ever, Ryan Lochte.

Thanks so much for joining us this morning. And I know this is the first Olympics in a long time you're not going to.

What's it going to be like? What's it going to be like for the athletes there to compete with no fans?

RYAN LOCHTE, 12-TIME OLYMPIC MEDALIST: You know, it's definitely -- it's definitely going to be different. That's for sure. You know, all the -- all my races that I've ever swam, all the world records that I've had, I've had the crowd. I had the fans, like, the atmosphere, the crowd roaring, and that gives you like a boost. So it's definitely going to be interesting to see what happens with the athletes. But, I mean, the Olympics are still going on and the most important thing is everyone's being safe.

BERMAN: How concerned are you and your fellow athletes about coronavirus heading into these games?

LOCHTE: I mean, I'm always going to be concerned of my fellow athletes. I mean, I love them. They're -- they're like a family to me. But I know that United States Swimming and, you know, everyone across the world, they're all making sure, like, they're being safe and taking the right precautions.

BERMAN: How many --

LOCHTE: So I know that where -- they're in good hands.

BERMAN: How many -- because you were just racing with them at the nationals. How many of your fellow swimmers were vaccinated? Are you vaccinated?

LOCHTE: That's a personal question, but I know that there's a bunch of athletes that were vaccinated. And I know there's a bunch that aren't. So, I mean, I guess it's a personal preference.

BERMAN: And -- and were you -- for the unvaccinated athletes, do you think there is greater risk for them?

LOCHTE: I mean, they could be, yes, but I know that the United States Swimming Association, they're taking great precautions. So I know that they're quarantining certain athletes for a couple days, especially now that they're out in Hawaii for their training camp. So they're making sure everyone's safe.

BERMAN: So, Sha'carri Richardson, who may be the fastest American woman right now with the 100 meter, she won't be going to the Olympic Games because of marijuana use before the national trials. Do you think that's fair?

LOCHTE: You know, every athlete, especially when you get to the Olympic trial stage or the Olympics, we -- we all have rules, you know. We saw the United States Anti-Doping Agency, WADA, the World Anti-Doping Agency, we all have rules and we have to obey by them.

I know that what she took was not an enhancement drug, and I know personally, because the same -- kind of the same situation happened with me taking something that was not an enhancement drug, but getting banned for it, or suspended. But, I mean, rules are rules. I just hope that, you know, the rules are -- start changing as like times are changing. And hopefully in the next Olympics this won't happen.

BERMAN: Ryan Lochte, as we said, we thank you for being with us this morning. I know you wish you were going. I knew you wish you were competing. But you'll be watching along with the rest of us, cheering everyone and, who knows, maybe four years from now you'll be back.

LOCHTE: Yes, I hope so.

BERMAN: All right, thanks so much. Does First Lady Jill Biden still plan to go to Tokyo for the games? That and more from a new CNN interview, next.

KEILAR: And the first African-American to win the National Spelling Bee.

[08:45:02]

It turns out it is not her first time in the spotlight. And she'll be here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Fourteen-year-old Zaila Avant-garde from New Orleans is the winner of this year's Scripps National Spelling Bee and she is the first black American to win the competition, beating out more than 200 other contestants.

Watch how the moment unfolded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The word is murraya. It's a genus of tropical Asiatic and Australian trees having pinnate leaves and flowers with imbricated petals. Murraya.

ZAILA AVANT-GARDE: Murraya. Does this (INAUDIBLE) like the English name, murray, which could be the name of a comedian or just the English name in general?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't see that here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bill Murray made the spelling bee.

[08:50:00]

AVANT-GARDE: Murraya.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That tells you she's on the right track.

AVANT-GARDE: M -- wait, what is the language of origin?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's formed in Latin from a Swedish name.

AVANT-GARDE: Murraya. M-u-r-r-a-y-a.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is correct!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: All right, I love the spin after victory. I love the Bill Murray reference.

And joining us now is the National Spelling Bee winner, Zaila Avant- garde. Congratulations. That was phenomenal. And I have to say, am I right,

did you only start this whole spelling bee thing like a couple of years ago?

Oh, I'm not sure we can hear you.

Zaila, can you keep on trying to speak?

All right, we're having problems with the audio here. We're going to fix it.

But, you know what, let's -- can we talk to one other thing while we get the microphone fixed. She will probably be able to fix the microphone because there's almost nothing on earth that she can't do, right?

KEILAR: I know, she's unbelievable.

BERMAN: In addition to being a world champion speller, she also holds several Guinness World Records in basketball, like dribbling. Do we have video of this that we can show people?

KEILAR: She is so amazing and funny, too. We're going to take a quick break. Stick around. We want to hear from Zaila Avant-garde.

We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: We're back now with Zaila Avant-garde, who is the Scripps National Spelling Bee champion.

Zaila, we are so excited to have you on this morning for what was just a joyous win of yours yesterday.

Tell us a little bit about how it felt.

ZAILA AVANT-GARDE, 2021 SCRIPPS NATIONAL SPELLING BEE CHAMPION: OK, first, can you hear me?

KEILAR: Yes, we can hear you. Can you hear us?

AVANT-GARDE: Yes. OK.

So it felt really good to win because I have been working on it for like two years. So to actually win the whole thing was like a dream come true. And I don't know, I felt like, in the moment, I snapped a severe dream, I had been walking and like the whole time I had been there at -- in Orlando, even though I felt like I'm kind of back in it now.

BERMAN: You say you only -- you've been working on it two years. When you say that to me, it sounds like only two years.

AVANT-GARDE: Yes. BERMAN: You just started the spelling competition two years ago. That's not very long to now be the, you know, the best speller on earth.

AVANT-GARDE: Yes, it's not -- some people work way longer than that. Like, one of the people that had been working for like ten hours a day since they were five. So I -- I -- definitely -- it's definitely is not that long really in spelling bee terms. So the fact that I won that after two years is really impressive in that case.

KEILAR: Yes, it is exemplary.

I wonder, so we heard that word, which, I mean, I had never heard that word in my life, murraya, a tree or leaf or -- with some kind of leaves. You knew very clearly from the beginning what it was. Was that the hardest word you had to spell? And, if not, what was the toughest word in this competition for you?

[08:55:02]

AVANT-GARDE: No, I knew murraya because I thought -- I'm sure I kind of implied I knew -- I always connected it with Bill Murray. But the hardest word I spelled in that competition for me was nepeta, which was a word I almost got wrong because like I know what it is. I even knew what the definition, I knew it was the genus of mints. But it's like a word that a lot of spellers get these type of words where like you know a word and you know all about it, but you don't really know how to spell it. And so it's -- it would have been really bad if I hadn't gotten out then because I would be kicking myself because I knew everything about the word except exactly how to spell it.

BERMAN: I've never experienced anything like what you just described, with any of those words, which I had never heard before in my entire life. And don't expect to ever again after this discussion.

Zaila, I guess, you know, my question to you is, is there anything that you're not good at? And I ask that because we've seen videos of you playing basketball and you own, you know, Guinness World Records for your dribbling, which is incredible, too, which I also can't do, and I can't do that. You know, are you good at just everything?

AVANT-GARDE: Well, just about anything I do I'm good at.

BERMAN: That's just what I think -- that's -- I figured, right? I figured that was the case.

KEILAR: I love it.

BERMAN: What's your --

KEILAR: I --

BERMAN: What's your -- what's your favorite thing to do?

AVANT-GARDE: My favorite thing is just -- since I guess spelling is over, now my favorite thing to do is, um, yes, I guess now is play basketball and just -- and especially the juggling stuff. I guess that's my new favorite thing to do now. I'll find something else to do. Trust me.

KEILAR: I have no doubt that that is the case.

What are your plans here for the future, Zaila? We want to know where you're going to end up, where you want to end up.

AVANT-GARDE: Um, I have a variety of things I'm interested in. I'm definitely interested in playing basketball at Harvard. I mean at Harvard. And maybe then -- then there's like four options. Like, I'm thinking about maybe NBA basketball coach, working for NASA or maybe going into some treating diseases and stuff with the help with neuroscience, or, finally, ever since I learned a little bit about it, I like studied two women who won Nobel Prizes for gene editing, I've been looking into that, too.

BERMAN: I'm going to go with option e, all of the above.

AVANT-GARDE: Yes.

KEILAR: Zaila, it's amazing to hear you say all of those things. And I will tell you, it's not often that you hear a 14-year-old say that, and that you think she's going to be able to do all of this. What a beautiful win that you brought us. Thank you so much for bringing us joy along with the joy that you brought yourself in that win. Zaila Avant-garde, thanks.

AVANT-GARDE: You're welcome.

KEILAR: First Lady Jill Biden has been at the forefront of the administration's push to vaccinate Americans. She spoke with CNN about that effort and the challenge that vaccine hesitancy poses. And CNN's Kate Bennett is with us now.

What did she say, Kate?

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't know how to -- I can't top that.

KEILAR: I know. Was she amazing or what?

BENNETT: She was great.

And, actually, Jill Biden was there last night at the spelling bee.

KEILAR: Oh, wonderful.

BENNETT: So, you know, this is just part of what the first lady is doing. She's continuing, even though it's past July 4th, past the deadline, she's going to the states in the south predominantly where vaccine hesitancy has really hit a wall. And she's trying to tell people that it's still important to get vaccinated. These are places where people are not necessarily showing up to get vaccine. She's pushing through. She's going to continue this fight. And she told me yesterday that she's more worried about the people saying, hey, it's not going to happen to me, and then it happens and then it's too late. So, clearly, for the first lady, even more so than the president's travel, she is keeping up the schedule of going around the country saying, don't give up, people, we've still got to get vaccinated. Don't have malaise. Don't have vaccine fatigue. Now is the time. Do it.

KEILAR: Sounds like she's going to places, though, that it's not Biden country.

BENNETT: It's not.

KEILAR: And you know that the vaccine has become politicized. Does she have any idea about how to combat that?

BENNETT: Well, you know, it's part of the reason that she's going. You know, Dr. Fauci has been sort of polarized politically. The president is busy. These are red states. There are not lines. I know I travel with her. There are not lines around the block. There's no one out there sort of cheering her on. She's definitely not in Biden turf, per se, all the time.

But, clearly, this is a mission that the White House is asking her to do. She told me yesterday, I'm going to keep doing it as long as they ask me, and they're asking her to go to specifically states like, you know, yesterday was Georgia, Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas, places where the hesitancy is overwhelming. And as the delta variant spreads, they really still have a job to do. And this could be a challenge for her, but they think her message -- her messaging is the most effective of anyone in the White House to try and get it out.

KEILAR: Such important work.

[08:59:59]

Final note here, Kate Bennett and John Berman, I think we do just have to go back to that amazing appearance by Zaila Avant-garde.

BENNETT: (INAUDIBLE). Spectacular.

KEILAR: Was she something or what, John Berman?