Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

The Delta Variant Rising In America; Pfizer Is Set To Brief Government Health Officials On A Possible COVID-19 Booster Shot; With The Trump Show In Town Man People Believe The Election Was Stolen; A State of Emergency In Tokyo, Less Than Two Weeks Ahead Of The Olympics; President Biden Fired The Social Security Commissioner Andrew Saul. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 12, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:00]

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: They said it would every few minutes you take one person --

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Yes.

SCHOLES: -- off the field on each team. So maybe you end up with a five on five on a giant field. That might be fun. But, I just don't think you could have those guys run to exhaustion and we might end up with some pretty poor soccer at that point.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: I don't know --

BERMAN: Right.

KEILAR: -- I want a dollar for every time I hear Berman complain about this penalty kick ending. I'm sure you're not alone Berman.

SCHOLES: So much drama.

KEILAR: But it irks him majorly.

SCHOLES: It's awesome. I don't -- can't believe you don't like it.

BERMAN: All right. Thank you for caring. I appreciate it. New Day continues right now.

KEILAR: Hello, I'm Brianna Keilar alongside John Berman on this New Day.

The Delta variant rising in America and so is the debate over a booster shot. We will speak with an investigator from the Pfizer trial.

BERMAN: Dangerous demagoguery. Why the lies and conspiracies peddled at CPAC are now risking American lives.

KEILAR: Plus, why more and more liberals are rising up against wokeness in American society. BERMAN: And we're going to speak to the mayor of one city, whose city

is now the first in the nation to charge gun owners for gun violence. Is that even legal?

KEILAR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Monday, July 12. And right now the Delta variant is spreading in the U.S., as Pfizer is set to brief government health officials today on a possible COVID-19 booster shot.

The company said last week that there is waning immunity to the virus among people who received its two-dose vaccine. But that announcement has confused a lot of people as federal guidance that fully vaccinated people don't need a booster right now is not expected to change.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTHONY FAUCI, HEAD OF NIH: There are studies being done now, ongoing as we speak, about looking at the feasibility about if and when we should be boosting people. So this isn't something that we say, no we don't need a boost right now. The story's ended forever.

No, there's a lot of work going on to examine this in real-time to see if we might need a boost. But right now, given the data that the CDC and the FDA has, they don't feel that we need to tell people right now you need to be boosted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So maybe at some point, but not yet. And this discussion comes as coronavirus cases are rising in the United States, particularly in the southeast where vaccination rates are lagging. For at least four consecutive days now the U.S. has recorded more than 20,000 new cases a day.

KEILAR: And joining us now to discuss this is Dr. Stephen Thomas. He was the coordinating principle investigator for the Pfizer COVID vaccine trial. Doctor great to have you with us. And just to be clear for our viewers, you don't work for Pfizer. You collaborated on its trial. But what do you think that Pfizer is going to say here?

DR. STEPHEN THOMAS, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EXPERT: First of all good morning and thanks for having me. Well, I expect they're going to go over three pieces of information.

The first is they're going to look at the longer term safety data that is now available. So you may recall these studies started almost a year ago. So there's more safety data that they can look at.

The second is they're going to look at immune responses, primarily antibody responses. So they're going to look at the peak responses were and they're going to look at how these responses have changed over time or decremented over time.

And then the third thing they're going to talk about is the real-world experience. So, how is the vaccine actually working out in the different countries? And they'll talk about the Israeli experience and they'll talk about the experience in the U.K.

And then they're going to take all this information together and have a discussion about the rational for whether or not a booster is going to be needed based on the information they have now. And if so, when do they think it will be needed.

KEILAR: When do -- when do you think it might be needed?

THOMAS: I mean based on the information that I have seen I would be very surprised if a booster dose was going to be needed at six months or even at 12 months. But again, as Dr. Fauci had mentioned, you know, we can only make judgments based on the data that is available.

And that's a constant process of Pfizer and the other vaccine developers providing this data to the regulators, the FDA and the United States so that this can be ongoing discussion and that people can make informed decisions.

KEILAR: So right now we're seeing the Delta variant and cases surging in Israel and surging in the U.K. What we are not seeing though is deaths following that. I wonder as you look at those numbers what you think that translates to for the U.S.

THOMAS: Yes so, you know, we're seeing cases rising in more than 20 states in the United States and unfortunately where those cases are rising the vaccination rates are very low. When we look at least the numbers from June and the numbers from May more than 95 percent of the people who have died from COVID were unvaccinated.

[07:05: 05]

The other information that we're seeing is that even against the variants these vaccines are very effective at preventing severe disease, hospitalization and death. So to me the narrative is the same as it's always been. If you want to protect yourself from COVID, if you want to protect yourself from bad outcomes from COVID get vaccinated.

KEILAR: I want to get your reaction, you know, as someone obviously who values vaccines and really the miracle that this one in particular has provided us. I want to get your reaction to something that happened at CPAC, the conservative conference, over the weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX BERENSON, JOURNALIST AND WRITER: Because clearly they were hoping, the government was hoping that they could sort of sucker 90 percent of the population into getting vaccinated and it -- and -- and it -- and it isn't happening, right? There's a --

(APPLAUSE)

-- younger people --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Cheers for the country missing its vaccination goal. What do you think about that?

THOMAS: What I think is this virus does not care where you live. It doesn't care who you voted for. It doesn't care what color your state is on any kind of political map. It is still out there. It is still circulating. You can get infected if you're not vaccinated and it can kill you.

So, I think people should take a step back look at the bigger picture and see what we're trying to achieve here, which is to prevent human suffering and go back to the society that we used to have, you know, around 2019.

KEILAR: Yes, we all want to be back to normal. Dr. Stephen Thomas thank you.

THOMAS: Thank you.

BERMAN: CNN -- so you just heard that moment from CPAC. CNN's Donie O'Sullivan was there this weekend and he joins us now live from Dallas. Donie, what did you see?

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey John. Yes, it was very much the Trump show here in town this weekend. We spoke to a lot of people, probably 20 or 30 people. Every single one of them, pretty much everybody believed that both the election was stolen and also lies about the insurrection.

I mean, it is quite sad when, you know, speaking to so many folks who have bought into this conspiracy theory about the election, which is now undermining their face in American democracy. You know, so many folks told us as well that they might not even trust the results of the next year's midterm elections.

And one other thing, John, which I think really sort of illustrates where I guess the Republican Party is right now, is we were -- spent a lot of time both inside and outside the event. There were so many guys dressed up in sort of tactical gear.

We saw guys wearing badges from The Three Percenters militia group, which was allegedly involved in the insurrection. We saw a lot of Proud Boys walking around the place as well.

So, this was a political conference in name, but you had these guys dressed up like they were ready to go to war. John?

BERMAN: All right, Donie stand by for a moment if you will. Because I know you have some sound from interviews you did over the course of the week and it's really revealing.

But what I do want -- right now is I'm going to talk to Bill Kristol. He's the director of Defending Democracy Together. Bill, I really appreciate you joining us. Look, there's a lot to discuss from CPAC, but I want to start with the vaccination thing. And I want to play it one more time, because you have a crowd of Republicans, conservatives, cheering low vaccination rates. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERENSON: Because clearly they were hoping, the government was hoping that they could sort of sucker 90 percent of the population into getting vaccinated. And it -- and -- and it -- and it isn't happening, right? There's a --

(APPLAUSE)

-- younger people --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I mean, is this -- is this routing for people to die, Bill?

BILL KRISTOL, DIRECTOR OF DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER: Yes, it's -- good morning John. It's pretty horrifying. Though I do want to say first, you're absolutely right about the penalty kicks. Do not let Brianna ridicule you or shame you out of your true position that they should keep playing until someone scores a legitimate goal.

Getting on to more serious things. Well, maybe that is the most serious thing. I don't know, you've probably already gotten 27,000 e- mails, you know, attacking you for not understanding that penalty kicks are the greatest thing ever or whatever. But I'm with you on that John.

Look, on the vaccine, it's horrifying. I mean, I never thought I would see a big movement be more irresponsible than they've been on the election denial and therefore and what that implies with the attacks on voting rights and the attempt to lay the ground work for subverting the next election.

But I've got to say on vaccines, a large part of the conservative movement is even worse. They're encouraging behavior that will make people sick, kill some people and keep the vaccine alive in the country which ultimately endangers young people, people under 12 that don't have the vaccine yet and the rest of us because at some point we, you know, the strong the virus is the more the variants can spread and more can -- more can come to exist the more we are ultimately in danger.

I actually think people need to be tougher on this and this kind of, you know, Dr. Thomas was very good on this but, you know, well we have to encourage people to do more. It's what a lot of people are saying. We've got to make the case.

[07:10:04]

I don't know. I think we need to think about something close to mandating it or making benefits dependent on it or making admission to all kinds of places, whether it's schools, universities, you know, airplanes, facilities contingent on being vaccinated.

I mean, it really is ridiculous for us to be tolerating what is now something that we wouldn't tolerate -- we make people wear seatbelts, we have speed limits, we have -- make kids show their vaccination card when they come to -- you know -- from their doctor when they -- when they enroll in elementary or secondary school. And we're just sort of letting this mass irresponsibility happen.

But again, whatever we can do about it, you have an entire political movement fostering this really damaging --

BERMAN: Well --

KRISTOL: -- I don't even know what to call it.

BERMAN: Yes.

KRISTOL: It's like (ph) a view like (inaudible) --

BERMAN: Look, you know -- you know, they also -- you know -- they booed Fauci. You know, lock him up, all that kind of stuff with Fauci. I understand the need among some people to create villains. But the cheering for low vaccination rates, again, it's as if they're rooting for COVID. I just -- I just never thought I'd see something like that.

KRISTOL: You know, it's right John. And I mean, look, during the height of it there we some arguments, not very good ones, but some arguments that we should be friendlier to opening up, a little less constraining in terms of the COVID. Those were sort of policy disputes, how fast do you open up.

The -- you know -- how much do you insist on masking and so forth, outdoors. And you know there was -- threw was at least some arguments on the other side. There's no argument here. As you say, this is simply denying the science, encouraging terrible irresponsibility both to themselves and ultimately on others.

BERMAN: Now, on a related front and I don't -- I really don't think it's completely disconnected, the former president spoke and he used the word love to describe the people involved in the insurrection, repeatedly, speaking fondly of those who overran the Capitol. Your take.

KRISTOL: Yes, I mean, the part -- Trump has moved from being pretend apologetic about the insurrection to attacking those who attacked the insurrection to helping block, encourage a blocking of true investigation into the insurrection to now just rooting for the insurrection.

And then some chunk of the Republican Party into conservative movement have gone with him and a huge chunk of the Republican Party and conservative elites are legitimating that. They're being quite about it. They're certainly not speaking back against the president.

So, this is a terrible thing in terms of both because it's, of course, false and it -- and for what encourages in the future in terms of election subversion going forward. It's -- it is pretty amazing.

BERMAN: And --

KRISTOL: And it -- and again, Trump remains -- Trump is -- if you had said six months ago he would be leading the show quite appropriately, talking about a Trump speech to CPAC, the former president who had lost. When has that ever happened? He is in -- but he has been brilliant in a certain way in establishing control of the party.

He launches these ridiculous legal suits that aren't going to win in court. The election suits didn't win. The big tech suit, it's not going to win. But, if forces people to respond and the party has rallied around him and to a degree that's really kind of extraordinary.

BERMAN: Well right. And I have to let you go Bill. But just my last question here is, Charlie Dent, who we had on last hour. Former Republican Congressman, called what we saw at CPAC a sideshow. And I'm just not sure -- I'm just not sure it's a sideshow.

KRISTOL: Oh yeah (ph) --

BERMAN: Maybe the main event.

KRISTOL: I -- I'm very much with you John. I love Charlie Dent. But people like Charlie -- look, Charlie Dent -- if the Republican Party were Charlie Dent's Republican Party I'd be thrilled, and therefore Charlie wants to believe, frankly, that it's a sideshow. And look, we should all -- people like Charlie should work to try to make it a sideshow.

But for now I'm afraid it's the main show. It's the main tent of the circus. It's the main circus tent and it's a very dangerous one. I mean, there's a kind of tendency to say, well it's a little wacky. Look at those people. Funny -- they're dressed up funny and they're saying incredible things and here's more QAnon people. It is not funny. It is dangerous.

BERMAN: And well -- you know -- could very well cost the lives on several different fronts whether it be from violence on the streets to the vaccines. Bill Kristol appreciate you being with us this morning.

KRISTOL: Thanks John.

BERMAN: We mentioned Donie O'Sullivan was there and had a chance to talk to many people in attendance.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN: I -- do you -- do you accept he lost the election?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I accept that on paper things happened to make it appear that way. I'm -- I don't know what would have happened.

O'SULLIVAN: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I find it very questionable that he lost given the support that he had.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you think what happened on January 6 was a stain on Trump's presidency?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely not. Yes, he didn't evoke any kind of violence. He didn't say anything that was making -- that was all just -- just honestly ridiculous. A few people acted out, out of millions of people that attended. Or I wouldn't say millions, but thousands -- close to a million.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes I would. I'm a Trump supporter.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you -- do you accept that he lost the election?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, he did lose the election. But we believe -- I believe there are some discrepancies and those will be revealed at some point.

O'SULLIVAN: What are you hoping to hear from Trump?

[07:15:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That he is going to regain his rightful seat as president.

O'SULLIVAN: In 2024?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

O'SULLIVAN: When?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As soon as the election is overturn for the election fraud.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you guys think the election was fair?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

O'SULLIVAN: No?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They tried to tell us the Tarrant County election we went blue for the first time since 1962.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not called an insurrection to me. What about it was an insurrection?

O'SULLIVAN: They stormed the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who? Who's they?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who? O'SULLIVAN: The Trump supporters, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bullshit. I mean, I'm sorry. Bullshit.

O'SULLIVAN: So --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don't know who those people were.

O'SULLIVAN: No, some Trump supporters were invited in. And there's video and there's audio. That they said, come on in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I've seen them. They go like this. Come on in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'SULLIVAN: So a lot to unpack there John. I mean, you did hear from one woman who mentioned that Trump could come back before 2024. And we know that was a concern of the Department of Justice last week who said, you know, this sort of talk, this fantasy that he could be reinstated into office before 2024, somehow that the election could be overturned, that there was concerns that that could provoke further violence.

Most people we spoke to, you know, at CPAC this weekend did not believe that this reinstatement thing would actually work out. Most are focused on looking towards 2024. But John, pretty much everybody we spoke to believe the election was stolen.

BERMAN: Yes, it could be a dangerous thing Donie. I mean, I know you're saying it's a minority, but to hear anyone say that the think the former president will be reinstated it's an alarming strain of thought there. Thank you very much for being down there. Thank you for your work Donie.

A state of emergency begins today in Tokyo less than two weeks ahead of the Olympics. How will this effect the games?

KEILAR: Plus, President Biden fired the head of the Social Security Administration. So why is he refusing to leave. We'll have the latest on this political standoff next.

[07:17:05]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:21:20]

KEILAR: A state of emergency is going into effect today in Tokyo as the country experiences a spike in new coronavirus cases just days before the start of the Olympics.

CNN's Will Ripley is live in Tokyo with more. Will?

WILL RIPLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, this is Tokyo's fourth state of emergency since the pandemic began, but we're not less than two weeks away from the opening ceremonies on July 23, and the vibe here -- I've been to a few Olympics in my time, it's nothing like anything I've ever experienced.

Like the torch relay, for example, they've actually taken the torch relay off public streets so that people can't line the sidewalks to cheer on the torch. They've moved it to areas with only a handful of officials and family and friends of the torch barriers themselves allowed to witness it.

Ninety-seven percent, more than that, of the Olympic events will be held without spectators. So these multi-billion dollar venues that Japan has built are going to sit empty. And the VIPs like sponsors and Olympics' officials and journalist who are allowed to actually enter these venues during the competitions would probably hear their own echo when they applauded.

There was a big storm that moved in here yesterday. We're kind of standing at one of the main locations in front of the Olympic rings and, you know, in a matter of minutes just the skies lit up. There was lightning, there was thunder and there was a lot of chatter on Japanese social media that this storm was almost a metaphor for what is to come.

Because Japan's case numbers are surging, they have just 15 percent of their population vaccinated. And starting now and in the coming days you're going to have thousands of people from hundreds of countries arriving with the Delta variant spreading like wildfire in many of these places.

People here in Japan who overwhelmingly, according to public opinion polls, didn't want the Olympics to happen, wonder if they're going to pay the price for holding this global sporting event at this time, Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it is hard to see how those fears are not founded. Will Ripley thank you so much for covering the games for us.

BERMAN: So this morning a government standoff in Washington. President Biden fired the Social Security Commissioner Andrew Saul after he failed to resign as the president had requested.

But Saul, a hold-over from the Trump administration, refuses to step down, questioning whether Biden has the power to dismiss him. And he plans to show up for work this morning.

CNN's Arlette Saenz is live at the White House. Any sign of him yet Arlette?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: No word yet on Andrew Saul reporting to work. But Andrew Saul, the fired commission of the Social Security Administration is questioning the president's -- the legality of the president's decision to fire him.

But a White House official tells me this morning that they believe the president has the authority to fire officials like Saul due to Supreme Court precedent. Now Saul told "The Washington Post" that he would be reporting for

work today by signing in remotely from his home in New York. So one question is whether he will even still be able to access the Social Security system despite being fired.

And just to show you how quickly the administration moved to replace him, take a look at the organization chart on the Social Security website. It was updated on Saturday, one day after he had been fired and already lists Kilolo Kijakazi as the acting commissioner, showing just how eager the administration is to move on.

Now the White House has not specifically responded to Saul's threat to report to work today despite being fired. But in explaining their decision to fire Saul, White House officials said, "Since taking office Commissioner Saul has undermined and politicized Social Security disability benefits and taken other action that run contrary to the mission of the agency and the president's policy agenda."

[07:25:00]

But, Republicans have been quick to pounce on this move. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell calling this an unprecedented and dangerous politicalization of the Social Security Administration.

So we will see whether there's any actual showdown heading in a little bit later today.

BERMAN: All right. Arlette Saenz keep us posted. Thank you very much.

Up next, the rise of the anti-woke Democrats. Why some of the party think that wokeness has gone too far.

KEILAR: Plus, how one California City wants to make gun owners pay for gun violence.

[07:25:35]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:28:50]

BERMAN: New this morning, President Biden is set to meet with the attorney general and local law enforcement leaders to discuss his plan to reduce the rise in gun violence facing some cities across the country.

[07:30:00]