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Major Protests Sweep Globe As Pandemic Deepens Inequalities; Tennessee Halts Outreach For All Vaccines, Including Coronavirus; Book: Privacy Policy By Facebook Paved Way For Groups Like QAnon. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired July 14, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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[07:32:02]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Major protests are erupting around the world as inequalities worsen amid the coronavirus pandemic. Millions of people are marching through the streets demanding jobs, democratic freedoms, social justice, and an end to corruption in their countries.

CNN's Nic Robertson is live for us in London with more. It's a -- it's a trend that we're seeing.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, it is. There is a pattern emerging here. It's not a one-size-fits-all automatic path to protests on the streets but countries -- we're seeing countries that have those economic -- underlying economic inequalities. Once you combine that with the effects of a pandemic it really is sort of bringing a very combustible situation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): From Cuba to Haiti, South Africa to Lebanon, tinder-dry tensions are igniting. Crippled economies burdened by COVID-19 are partly to blame.

In Cuba, angry citizens incensed by lack of food, medicine, and freedom, as well as spiraling coronavirus infections, are getting beaten back by police for demanding the ouster of President Miguel Diaz-Canel.

In a national broadcast, he blamed Cuba's economic woes on U.S. sanctions imposed under former President Donald Trump.

MIGUEL DIAZ-CANEL, PRESIDENT OF CUBA (through translator): We explained to the Cuban people very clearly that we were about to enter a very rough period of time.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): The reality is Cuba's weak economy and healthcare system is being brought to its knees by COVID-19 infections soaring. Only a little more than 16 percent of Cubans fully vaccinated.

The United States is watching with concern.

ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: People deeply, deeply, deeply tired of the repression that has gone on for far too long. Tired of the mismanagement of the Cuban economy. Tired of the lack of adequate food and, of course, an adequate response to the COVID pandemic.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Haiti also a concern for the U.S. The audacious assassination of President Jovenel Moise last week topped weeks of deadly street protests and fighting fueled by poverty and factional infighting.

The impoverished Caribbean nation, which has been an economic basket case for decades, saw street violence ramp up in recent weeks, concurrent with a spike in COVID-19 cases in late June.

In South Africa where COVID-19 infections have been spiking and vaccination rates are low, the economic inequalities are high. The army has been brought in to quell deadly rioting triggered by the jailing of former President Jacob Zuma on contempt of court charges.

[07:35:06]

And Lebanon, too, is hitting a crisis, exacerbating preexisting tensions of poor COVID readiness. Protests in anger ever-present as rocketing inflation and rolling power outages roil passions. The nation reeling from the economic impact of decades of Syrian civil war next door compounded by years of political infighting. And to cap it all, a port blast last summer shredding much of central Beirut.

And Iraq, this week, became the latest country where tinder-dry frustrations combusted as they touched the nation's war on COVID-weary population. Oxygen tanks for treating COVID-19 patients at a hospital exploded, killing more than 90 people. Within hours, nearby residents took to the streets demanding better from their government.

Living with COVID-19 has become not just a way of life but a salutary warning for leaders everywhere.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And I think if we're trying to sort of look at a big picture comparison here, look back at 2008 and the global economic crisis there. It took a couple of years for that to percolate through to the street level. In late 2010, that market trader in Tunisia set himself on fire. That became the spark that ignited the Arab Spring in 2011 and country's leaders changed as a result of that.

So when we look at this pattern right now, there's some history to it as well and dangers ahead.

KEILAR: Yes, a fascinating report. Nic Robertson, thank you so much.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, new developments in the dangerous politics of vaccines after Tennessee fired its vaccination chief over what she says were efforts to get teenagers vaccinated. Now, the Republican-led state is scrapping all outreach to children for any vaccine altogether. No public messaging from the health department on any vaccines.

Joining me now is the former Republican governor of Indiana, Mitch Daniels. He is now the current president of Purdue University.

And I want to talk about what's going on at your university in just a second because it's really interesting. But first, just -- you know, when you see the Tennessee Health Department saying you've got to stop all vaccine outreach -- I'm talking like measles, rubella -- what do you make of that?

MITCH DANIELS, (R) FORMER INDIANA GOVERNOR, PRESIDENT, PURDUE UNIVERSITY (via Skype): Well, it's the first I've heard of it and I'm not going to be quick to judge. But it's been conventional and this state and most states, as far as I know, for a long time required certain vaccines. Obviously, these are tested and fully approved and some people make that distinction. But I think it's an iffy call based only on what I heard you just report.

BERMAN: Well, there is a connection in some cases. The Biden administration doing vaccine outreach on COVID, sending people door- to-door to educate people on vaccines, and that's received pushback.

These people aren't going to actually stick people in the arm with shots, they're going to talk about vaccinations. Yet, there are some leaders who are resistant to that. Why do you think that is?

DANIELS: I'm not sure. Certainly, here at Purdue University we are promoting the vaccine and encouraging it -- enabling it every way we can. We do believe by now, with hundreds of millions of doses administered that we can be quite confident -- you know, much more, frankly, than from controlled clinical trials that may only involve a few thousand --

BERMAN: I --

DANIELS: -- patients.

So this is something that I hope most people -- certainly, most adults and all those vulnerable through comorbidities and so forth -- will take heed of and act on.

BERMAN: I think what you're doing at Purdue is really interesting and I want to discuss it because you are not requiring vaccinations. You're encouraging them and you just encouraged them right here to your students and people coming back to Perdue. You're encouraging them but not requiring them. Why?

DANIELS: I think it starts, first of all, with an outlook of personal responsibility here. Now that the vaccines are here we opted, after some debate and thought, for a personal choice model. We are, as I said, very strongly encouraging every way we can. We administered 37,000 shots ourselves before school let out for the summer, but we are leaving the choice to our students and staff. Now, they will have to accept the consequences if something goes wrong. For instance, they'll have to have their own quarantine arrangements because we do have a collective duty to keep this place open. We were probably -- not probably, we were the most open university our size that we know of anywhere last year through a great effort really led by our students and their compliance.

[07:40:08]

But now we have vaccines and we thought the right move was to give people choice.

One last point. As a practical matter, we think we probably can get at least as far going this route as trying to mandate and then deal with the enforcement problems that go with it.

BERMAN: Just one more question on vaccines here is you were also saying to students while you're not requiring it you are saying there will be things that only vaccinated students will be able to do. There will be things that unvaccinated students will not be able to do. Isn't that correct? And have you delineated what those things will be?

DANIELS: It is correct in at least one respect, which is to say that those who choose not to be vaccinated will need to make their own arrangements, as they would in any other year with any other disease, to, first of all, stay out of class and stay away from infecting others. And they'll have to do their best to keep up with their studies. No special arrangements will be made for them.

There may be other things. We've not settled on them yet.

There's -- let me make this point. Last year, life was difficult if you wanted to keep an operation like ours going, but it was pretty straightforward. We did everything we could think of that might help control the virus.

This year, while things are much better, they are more complicated and it leads --

BERMAN: Right.

DANIELS: -- to tough judgment calls like you just asked about.

BERMAN: Yes, and it will be interesting to see the reaction there. You're saying you don't have to get vaccinated but if you're not vaccinated your life will be different. And if you are vaccinated, things will be more open to you.

I do want to ask you also because you wrote a really interesting column about language. And it's in reaction to this type of thing, which was said by Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene about vaccinations.

She says, "Biden is pushing a vaccine that is not FDA-approved. It shows COVID is a political tool used to control people. People have a choice. They do not need your medical brown shirts showing up at their door ordering vaccinations."

Now, after this -- I'm not saying it was only because of this but after this, you wrote a column saying people need to stop using the word Nazi or Nazi terms, or framing things through fascism or Nazism when they're trying to describe things. Why were you -- why did you write that and where does Marjorie Taylor Greene fit into what you're saying?

DANIELS: Well, first of all, I wrote the column and submitted it months ago. It just came up in a rotation this week.

It's something that's troubled me for a while. It was, in part, an appeal for civility, which many people believe we could stand to see restored somewhat in our public spaces. But also, an appeal for historical accuracy.

These terms Nazi and fascist getting thrown around by both sides. You just gave one good example. Other people of her persuasion have used it about mask mandates. People on the left have used it to attack folks for supporting continued police funding or enforcing the immigration laws, or for good Hallmark movies, for goodness sakes.

So my point was simply these words ought to be reserved for their proper place. Benito Mussolini invented fascism and he described it as everything inside the state, nothing against the state, and nothing outside the state.

And I don't think either the -- except for a very few on the extreme left today are advocating anything like that. And both sides ought to stand down from this language, except where it absolutely literally applies.

BERMAN: I've got to say, Purdue University president, former Republican governor of Indiana, Mitch Daniels, appreciate talking to you. Thanks for coming on today.

DANIELS: Thank you.

BERMAN: Disturbing new claims about Facebook. Security experts warn company executives about threatening posts from domestic extremists in the run-up to the insurrection. So, did Facebook do enough?

KEILAR: And four Iranian nationals accused of trying to kidnap a U.S. journalist in New York. A woman who claims that she was the target live on NEW DAY, ahead.

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[07:47:30]

KEILAR: This morning, a new book is revealing some damning claims inside Facebook, including that Facebook security experts had warned executives about alarming posts from domestic extremists in the run-up to January sixth, and of the potential for violence in Washington that day. According to this book, ahead of President Trump's speech that day, the executives floated getting CEO Mark Zuckerberg to call Trump to find out what the president would say. Now, they ultimately decided against the move out of the concern that the conversation would likely leak to the press. It could make Facebook complicit in whatever Trump did that day. Instead, the group had waited.

And joining me now is Sheera Frenkel and Cecilia Kang, who are the authors of this new behind-the-scenes, really fascinating expose that is titled "An Ugly Truth: Inside Facebook's Battle for Domination," which is on sale right now.

OK, this is so incredibly fascinating. Let's start now with the role of Facebook in fomenting the rhetoric that was leading up to January sixth because Facebook actually said this. "Our teams were vigilant in removing content that violated our policies against inciting violence leading up to January sixth." They said they were more aggressive than any other internet company.

All right, you guys know the answer to this. Is that true?

SHEERA FRENKEL, CO-AUTHOR, "AN UGLY TRUTH: INSIDE FACEBOOK'S BATTLE FOR DOMINATION": You know, I think that when Facebook made that comment there was a reason that there was an immediate response and it was because it didn't read true to a lot of people.

In the lead-up to January sixth, for months, people had been forming Facebook groups called "Stop the Steal." That idea that the election had been stolen from Donald Trump was really fermented and formatted on Facebook.

And those groups, as they got larger and larger and closer to January sixth, we got that -- we saw that rhetoric becoming more extreme. I mean, the night before the January sixth rallies were happening people were posting photos of assault rifles on Facebook and saying they were bringing them out to Washington.

KEILAR: So they knew this was happening. And one of the things, if we look even further back, that you talk about in this book is Zuckerberg actually had Facebook make a pivot to privacy.

CECILIA KANG, CO-AUTHOR, "AN UGLY TRUTH: INSIDE FACEBOOK'S BATTLE FOR DOMINATION": Yes.

KEILAR: So then what you had was Facebook pushing these online Facebook discussions towards private groups on Facebook. Was this Facebook purposely trying to get rid of the issue of having to police the speech on its platform?

KANG: Well look, over and over again -- and we show in our book, and what we were surprised to learn in our reporting was that often, the decisions on technology are always -- well, actually always, they are made towards getting more engagement on the site. That's their sort of core.

[07:50:00] And the groups are where people go -- like-minded people -- and they discuss things. They oftentimes exchange information that's false or that's dangerous. And the groups are also harder to police. They're harder to look into and to police for potential violations.

So, the groups were absolutely a core place where a lot of this organizing was taking place ahead of January sixth.

KEILAR: It's not like he didn't know this, Sheera. It's not like the leadership and Zuckerberg at Facebook didn't know. He actually dismissed concerns, as you describe, from advisers.

FRENKEL: Absolutely, and that's a pattern we show over and over again in this book. It doesn't happen just once.

And I think part of the strength of our book is we show that at multiple times in Facebook's history they are warned that something bad is going to happen. A whistleblower within the company or someone outside of the company who is an expert comes to them and says something really bad is going to happen if you don't take action. And again and again, they wait for that bad thing to happen before they start to think about any changes.

KEILAR: It's not proactive, for sure, this picture that you paint.

And then finally, in May of 2020 you have Twitter --

KANG: Yes.

KEILAR: -- taking unprecedented action when it comes to Trump's tweets. They actually put a warning label on his tweet that said, in part, when the looting starts, the shooting starts.

KANG: Yes.

KEILAR: How did that affect Facebook?

KANG: Well, internally, it was a huge turning point in that employees were very angry that Facebook did not respond quickly in the way that Twitter did. And Twitter has lots of faults of its own and problems that they've had with the president.

But Facebook, and particularly Mark Zuckerberg, has always sort of struggled with what to do with political speech. And what happened was after that, Facebook decided to slow the spread of that looting and shooting post. But internally, people felt like it was so clear that the former president crossed the line -- that he was inciting violence and he was violating their hate policies.

KEILAR: It's interesting to hear internally how this really didn't fly. There was so much disagreement with what Zuckerberg and others were doing.

You also detail a moment in that -- where Zuckerberg had a private meeting in the Oval Office with President Trump. I think this was in 2019. And you say this, quote, "His team had run the numbers using

proprietary internal data, and the president had the highest engagement of any global leader on Facebook. Zuckerberg told him: Trump's personal account with 28 million followers was a blowout success. The former reality show star visibly warmed up."

You say this was a vanity gift of sorts, as you describe it. It -- you're describing a situation where Zuckerberg is sucking up to Trump. Is that -- is that how you see it?

FRENKEL: I mean, I think that's an apt description. I think he knew exactly what he was doing when he showed up at the Oval Office with those figures.

I think people know that the president enjoys his popularity online. He relishes in how many followers he had. And bringing those numbers was a little pat on the back to say yes, our internal metrics are showing that you are, in fact, one of the most powerful and popular people on our platform.

KEILAR: And he was worried about the animosity from Trump? Is that what it was? Is that what you saw, Sheera?

FRENKEL: Yes. I think that they were worried, like many Silicon Valley companies, that a tweet from Trump could really affect their business. I mean, when Trump was president he often tweeted things which affected the stock market or affected particular businesses, and they wanted to make sure that they had a clear path ahead of them and a friend in the White House.

KEILAR: I'm sure you saw the July Fourth video of Zuckerberg, right?

KANG: Oh, yes.

KEILAR: May it live in infamy and be an iconic image that we can enjoy over and over. But this is it, right? It's -- I'll let it speak for itself. How about that?

(Video of Mark Zuckerberg celebrating July Fourth by flying a flag while wakeboarding)

But what I will say is this really doesn't seem like a guy who's too worried about anything. I wonder --

KANG: I know.

KEILAR: I wonder, Cecilia, if something has changed with the Biden administration. Is there any fear of the Biden administration?

KANG: Well, interestingly, the Biden administration has put some really big tech critics in very key positions.

But this video was shot just a couple of weeks after a court threw out an antitrust lawsuit against Facebook. I mean, that was -- for Mark Zuckerberg, the idea of getting broken up is the biggest existential threat to him. And so I think he's feeling like he can breathe a little easier. He can hold the American flag while he's wakeboarding as well.

KEILAR: He can breathe, indeed.

It's a fascinating, fascinating book. Good luck, you guys --

FRENKEL: Thank you so much.

KEILAR: -- as you are -- as you are promoting it.

Sheera Frenkel and Cecilia Kang, I learned so much, so thank you very much.

KANG: Thank you so much, Brianna.

FRENKEL: Thank you. Thank you.

KEILAR: Life may be returning to normal in the U.S. but the pandemic is far from over. Disturbing new data, which could point to dark days ahead. We're going to break this down, next.

BERMAN: And four Iranian nationals accused of trying to kidnap a U.S. journalist in New York. A woman who claims she was the target, live on NEW DAY ahead.

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[07:58:56]

BERMAN: I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar.

On this new day, coronavirus surging in the United States, but there's a big difference this time around. The head doctor at a busy Florida hospital is standing by to talk to us right now.

Plus, FBI agents foil a plot by Iranian spies to kidnap a U.S. citizen. We'll talk to a journalist who says she was the target.

KEILAR: And, President Biden making a pivotal pitch to Senate Democrats just hours from now. Can he convince moderates to get on board with the $3.5 trillion budget deal that was hammered out overnight?

And a crucial moment looming in the "Free Britney" case. What the singer could tell the court today as she tries to regain control of her life.

BERMAN: Good morning to our viewers here in the United States and all around the world. It is Wednesday, July 14th.

Coronavirus cases surging this morning in the United States fueled by the fast-spreading new variant and driven by the unvaccinated.

KEILAR: That's right.