Return to Transcripts main page

New Day

Book Says, Top Pentagon Brass Feared Trump Would Attempt Coup; Book Says, Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) Feared Maniac trump Would Launch Nukes in Final Days; Delta Variant, Lag in Vaccinations Lead to Spike in New Infections. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired July 15, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: It's all tied up. The Bucks rally past the Suns in a nail-biter to even the NBA Finals at two apiece. Carolyn Manno with the Bleach Report with more.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, John. Milwaukee just needs to prove now that they can take this show on the road. They've proven that they can play with their backs against the wall and after dropping the first two games of the series in Phoenix, they are right back in the mix now battling on their home court to even things up in a rugged affair which led to a tense fourth quarter.

After spring (ph), it combined 29 points in games two and three. Khris Middleton came to play in game four, Middleton scoring in a playoff career-high 40, including ten down the stretch, as dominant as he was in the latter half of the fourth quarter.

The most dramatic play of the night belonged to the team's two-time MVP Giannis Antetokounmpo who delivered one of the greatest plays in NBA Finals history, a huge block with just over a minute to play that would shift the momentum in the Bucks' favor. Milwaukee won by six. The series now returns to Phoenix for game five on Saturday night. Milwaukee needs to get one of those.

In the meantime, a tremendous night for women's hoops too in preparation for the Tokyo Olympics. USA basketball's women's national team facing the WNBA all-stars last night, a treat for fans who normally wouldn't get this kind of game in an Olympic year. And Dallas Wings Guard Arike Ogunbowale led the way for the all-stars. She hit five threes, and put up a game high of 26 points on the way to MVP honors. The all-stars won by eight.

Sue Bird, who is going to her fifth Olympics, summing it up afterwards by saying that Team USA learned they aren't a team quite yet. A little bit of chemistry to work on. Team USA seeking a historic seventh- straight gold medal when they begin their Olympic campaign against Nigeria on July 27th.

New Day continues right now. BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN NEW DAY: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is Thursday, July 15th.

And we're beginning with explosive revelations about just how close American democracy came to the edge. Jaw-dropping excerpts from a new book about the aftermath of the 2020 election.

BERMAN: So, the excerpts obtained by CNN's Jamie Gangel are from the upcoming book, I Alone Can Fix It, by two Pulitzer Prize-winning Washington Post reporters. Among the revelations, America's top generals feared then-President Trump would attempt a coup after the election. And they planned ways to stop him.

This is really the first time in modern U.S. history there was this much potential for a showdown between the commander-in-chief and the military.

KEILAR: It's very stunning here. General Mark Milley and the other joints chief plotted mass resignations, one by one, rather than carry out orders from Trump that they considered to be illegal. Something of a reverse Saturday Night massacre.

And according to the book, General Milley also viewed Trump as an authoritarian leader and Trump's big lie, Milley told his aides that it was, quote, the gospel of the furor.

BERMAN: So, another scene to the book, General Milley publicly confronted the White House chief of staff during an Army/Navy football game and grilled Mark Meadows about whether Trump would fire the FBI and CIA directors.

The book also claims Milley and former Secretary of State Mike Pompeo privately met. Pompeo telling Milley, quote, crazies are taking over. That is an account that Pompeo now denies.

KEILAR: And this book also describes tense moments that played out during January 6th and in its aftermath, including Liz Cheney telling Jim Jordan during the Capitol riot, quote, you f'ing did this. And House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's fears that Trump would use a nuclear weapon during his final days in office.

The book describes a private conversation that she had with General Milley and he reassured Pelosi that the military would not carry out an order that was illegal.

BERMAN: And, finally, the book talks about Trump's disdain for German Chancellor Angela Merkel during an Oval Office meeting about NATO and Germany, according to the book. Trump refers to the German chancellor as, quote, that bitch, Merkel.

KEILAR: Joining us now, CNN Special Correspondent Jamie Gangel and CNN Chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander General Wesley Clark with us.

Jamie, starting with you, you've got the excerpts of this book. The perhaps most alarming part of this is General Milley worried that Donald Trump could attempt a coup and how we learn about what was going on behind the scenes to make sure that didn't happen.

JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely. What we learn is that after the election General Milley is, quote, shaken because he is really afraid that Trump and his allies may attempt a coup. And they write in the book, they're quoting Milley here, quote, they may try but they're not going to f'ing succeed, he told him, this is to senior aides. You can't do this without the military.

[07:05:01]

You can't do this without the CIA and the FBI. We are the guys with the guns.

Just for context, General Milley is quoted extensively through this book. Let's remember, his reputation took a hit when he posed with President Trump at Lafayette Park. So there's no question that I'm sure he apologized for that. He wants to help his reputation, but this goes way beyond this. He is putting himself on the line, going public with this.

BERMAN: General Clark, I don't want people to lose sight of the historic nature of what is being reported here. You have the chairman of the Joint Chiefs taking evasive action in a way, in discussions because he's concerned about a military coup.

Now, civilian control of the military is a bedrock of U.S. democracy. But to have the U.S. Joint Chief so concerned, how does this strike you?

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: Well, it strikes me that General Milley was on the inside. He saw the character of the president. He heard the discussions of people around the president. He saw historically grounded. He is experienced. This was his read of it that there was significant concern.

So I think, you know, on the one hand it's a very shocking story. On the other hand, it's a very reassuring story because it reassures the American people that we have got people in government service who are dedicated to put their lives on the line and stand up to their oath, which is their loyalty to the Constitution.

KEILAR: And, Kaitlan, in this book, Milley was essentially -- not essentially, he was comparing Donald Trump to Hitler.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Which is not something -- if you know Milley and you reported on him, as I have, this is not language that he uses. He doesn't just speak off the cuff comparing the U.S. president to Nazi Germany and his fears about what can happen under that president. And that's what he does here at length.

And I think this is something that to keep in mind. This is not just about January 6th. This is an issue that was months in the making for Milley and the position he was put in after Jamie noted he did attend that photo op at the church outside the White House after they have forcefully cleared peaceful protesters from the area. And so it was in that area and in that moment when those George Floyd protests were happening around the country, some of them turning into riots that President Trump was talking about sending the military into the streets. And that is where this fear, I think, about what the president wanted to do, the former president now, when it came to the military was how that really started for Milley and where those concerns started to happen.

I think it was something that built up over time, month-to-months. It happened even, as they mention here in the book, where there were concerns about the president wanting to fire then-CIA Director Gina Haspel. That was something real. I remember when that was happening.

And the plan was actually to fire her deputy and force her to resign essentially. That is how detailed it got. And it became so close that the president was saying, let's do it. I've made the decision, have the deputy fired and then later pulling it back.

So, you can see why these concerns were so great for Milley because these were things that were actually happening. And it was, I think, a concurrence of multiple events that really drove him to the comments that he's now making today.

BERMAN: Jamie, there are going to be Trump supporters who say, how could there be a coup, he was president at the time? No. What Milley is talking about here is Trump not recognizing the results of the election. When he talks about Reichstag moment in German history, that is the moment where Adolf Hitler in 1933 used the burning of the Reichstag as an excuse to suspend habeas corpus, to suspend civil liberties, to take over the entire apparatus of the government, the military.

So that's what Milley is talking about here and he was genuinely scared, and you have got more reporting on how worried he was about the inauguration itself.

GANGEL: And just to be clear, General Milley believes in civilian authority. He was walking a fine line here. So, after January 6th, he is now helping to prepare security for the inauguration. And we all know that Washington was on lockdown.

But what the book shows is behind the scenes, he's at a meeting with other law enforcement and security officials and here is what he says to them. Here is the deal, guys. These guys are Nazis. They're Boogaloo Boys, They're Proud Boys. These are the same people we fought in World War II. Everyone in this room, whether you're a cop, whether you're a soldier, we're going to stop these guys to make sure we have a peaceful transfer of power. We're going to put a ring of steel around this city and the Nazis aren't getting in.

Again, for someone like General Milley, who is a student of history, to make that comparison is stunning.

[07:10:00] And this context, Donald Trump is already teasing about running in 2024. General Milley knew this would come out now. He wanted it to come out now.

KEILAR: I wonder, General, you had the military -- things were so off the rails from Milley's perspective that he was essentially sitting in as a guardrail and preparing essentially to act as what any normal civilian administration would act as, which Donald Trump perhaps wasn't going to was his fear. How -- what does that tell you about how the institution of the military held even as it was potentially acting in a very extraordinary manner?

CLARK: Well, I think it's a reassuring story because of General Milley and the other senior leaders in the Armed Forces, they're well educated, they're well read, they're experienced, they're connected with a lot of people in Washington.

Now, remember, General Milley is not the commander of the Armed Forces. He is legally the adviser to the president and to the Congress and to the secretary of defense. And the chain of command goes from the president through the secretary of defense. So, I think Mark Esper was mentioned in that book from what I've read about the excerpts also.

So, General Milley is acting as a leader. He's not someone who is in command. He is a leader. He is orchestrating. He is sharing perspectives. He is doing what a good leader would do. He's concerned. He's taken an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. And he's concerned that the president of the United States would become an enemy of the Constitution.

BERMAN: Jamie, very quickly, to that point, I think that was one of Milley's fears is that Esper was gone by that point. Esper was pushed out. Bill Barr -- people don't like to hear this on the left, but some people saw Bill Barr as a guardrail. I think General Milley saw Bill Barr as a guardrail against President Trump. He was gone.

So, Milley felt like he was on an island here.

GANGEL: Absolutely. And there were meetings that he had, according to the book, with White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, with then- Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in which he would do daily check-ins. And the book talks about those meetings and reports that Milley was also using those meetings with Meadows and Pompeo to keep tabs on the president. He was trying to get a daily read on what was going on.

KEILAR: So afraid he was that things were going out of bounds. Jamie, thank you so much. General Clark, Kaitlan, thank you so much for being with us. Kaitlan, if you can stand by for us, there are more revelations, including what Liz Cheney said to Jim Jordan, the congressman, during the insurrection. And what General Milley told Speaker Nancy Pelosi over her fears that Trump might fire nuclear weapons in his final days.

BERMAN: Plus, the answer to the question on so many Democrats' minds this morning, will the Supreme Court's most senior liberal justice, Stephen Breyer, retire? A CNN exclusive interview where he kind of answers that question.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

BERMAN: We have been discussing the stunning new revelations about Donald Trump's new final days in office in the book, I Alone Can Fix It. The book describes a conversation between House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and General Mark Milley, as Trump refused to accept the election results.

This guy is crazy, Pelosi said of Trump. He's dangerous. He's a maniac. We have deep concerns. Ma'am, I guarantee that we have checks and balances in the system, Milley told her. He walked her through the process of nuclear release authorities. Ma'am, I guarantee you that these processes are very good, he said. There's not going to be an accidental firing of nuclear weapons.

How can you guarantee me, Pelosi asked? Ma'am, there's a process, he said. We will only follow legal orders. We'll only do things that are legal, ethical and moral.

Jamie Gangel and Kaitlan Collins back with us now.

And, Jamie, the point that you've been making that Mark Milley knew this was going to get out. Clearly, these are excerpts from a book that he knew were going to be made public right now. Why does Milley want everyone to see this now?

GANGEL: So I don't know why. I haven't spoken to him. But I would say two things. 2024 is already happening. And I think he wanted to be clear and public about how dangerous he thought Donald Trump was in that context.

He also, I would say, is sending a message to the troops. He is still chairman of the Joint Chiefs. A lot of members of the military voted for Donald Trump. And I think he's sending them a signal.

KEILAR: Yes. There's certainly a schism, I think, especially between the rank and file and the officer corps that Donald Trump was trying to create. And you see Milley here maybe trying to kind of circle the wagons a little bit and send that signal.

I also want to point out, Jamie, that the book reveals a Liz Cheney moment where the Wyoming Republican congresswoman reportedly told General Milley about a confrontation that she had with Ohiose Republican Congressman Jim Jordan on the Hill the day after the insurrection. Tell us about this.

GANGEL: So, I can actually confirm that that conversation happened after I read it in the book. So, this is a conversation on January 7th. General Milley and Liz Cheney are friends. They're close. They're having a phone call. And General Milley says to Liz Cheney, how are you doing? And Liz Cheney lets loose about Jim Jordan, the head of the freedom caucus and a Trump supporter. And she says, quote, that f'ing guy Jim Jordan, that son of a bitch, Cheney said, while these maniacs are going through the place, I'm standing in the aisle. And he said, we need to get the ladies away from the aisle.

[07:20:13]

Let me help you. I smacked his hand away and told him, get away from me. You f'ing did this.

I don't think Liz Cheney needed or wanted Jim Jordan's help at that moment.

BERMAN: No, but the point that you did this, Katilan, is an interesting and important point to be making right now, especially because so many people running this show for the Republicans in Congress, you know, were very much in touch and in tune with the former president.

COLLINS: And the thing is, a lot of those allies of the president, who are still in Congress, the former president, they did not believe what he was saying about the election, yet they were helping him publicly push it whether that was not condemning what he was saying or it was actually pushing it and repeating those lies about the election, casting doubt on the fact that Biden had won the presidency.

And the thing with Jim Jordan is he is a smart person. And he is an ally of the president who sticks very closely to him publicly, but he was one of several people who, on January 6th, we were told, was in touch with the White House and other aides calling them as this was going on on Capitol Hill, saying, what is the president doing? He has got to say something about this, when they were essentially begging the former president to put out a statement telling people to leave the Capitol, to go home, to stop what they were doing.

And so, Jim Jordan is not someone who is just completely oblivious to what was happening. But I think what happened on January 6th and it changed very quickly after we know because everyone is trying to whitewash what happened, is even those people who played a role in this, the day of realized holy crap, like, this is a real situation and look what this has led to.

And so I think that moment, that outburst from Liz Cheney towards Jim Jordan is not that surprising. But I think that was something that it was kind of this moment of realization for so many of the president's allies who were there that day of just how real and the consequences of what they had been saying for several weeks.

KEILAR: And, Kaitlan -- sorry, go on, Jamie.

GANGEL: Could I just add some context to it? From Liz Cheney's perspective, Jim Jordan was perpetuating the big lie. He was on the phone with the president between Election Day and January 6th, if not, everyday, several times a week. And so, her saying you did this is really about that he perpetuated the big lie that led to January 6th. KEILAR: Kaitlan, you mentioned -- of course, Jamie. And, Kaitlan, you mentioned the whitewashing. I think that's why, look, some of these things that we're learning from this book confirm what we knew or what we suspected. And yet, I think it really stands out the narrative arc that this book shows us because of that whitewashing of what happened in January -- on January 6th and certainly what preceded it.

COLLINS: And I think with Milley, something that's really important to keep in mind here is that he is not someone who is always at odds with the former president. When he had first selected him as the chairman of the Joints Chiefs of Staff, people would often go to Milley to get to Trump on something because he knew how to connect with him, they felt like, in meetings.

And so to see him take a drastic turn given the events and now that this is all becoming public, I do think you have to think of this in the context that Trump is not just some long gone past politician and president and poses no threat to the public.

He is someone who is actively talking about running for reelection. He has a very powerful grip on the Republican Party. And so that is the context I think that people have to read this book from Phil and Carol Leonnig.

BERMAN: He is the front-runner for the Republican nomination. This matters for now not just for history, and we continuously, continually repeatedly learn here how dangerous so many people around him thought he was who cooperated with him, who tried to privately stop him, who tried to publicly stop him. I think that's the big picture here. It's so important.

KEILAR: Jamie and Kaitlan, thank you for your insights here. I appreciate it.

And just ahead, the race to vaccinate Americans as this delta variant of coronavirus spreads. The former director of the CDC will join us live.

BERMAN: And child tax credits being paid out starting today. Who is getting them and how could they help?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

KEILAR: The fight against COVID-19 is now a race between vaccines and variants. 47 states are reporting an uptick in new cases compared to the previous week and the delta variant is driving this surge. Patients are now younger and virtually all of them are unvaccinated.

More than 99 percent of COVID deaths in the country right now are unvaccinated Americans. And vaccination rates have plunged as anti-vax propaganda sweeps parts of the country and takes hold.

Joining us now is the former CDC director and former New York City health commissioner Dr. Tom Frieden. Sir, thank you so much for being with us.

I want to talk a little bit more about this delta variant. I think it's essential that people understand just how much more transmissible this is, what, about two to three times the initial strain of coronavirus. What makes it so transmissible?

DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: The delta strain is both dominant and deadly. And what we've seen around the world and in the U.S. now is increases even in places that have high vaccination rates primarily among unvaccinated people. But the good news is that the vaccines we're using in this country work very well against delta, particularly to prevent severe illness and death.

[07:30:04]

The delta variant appears to be about twice or even more than twice.