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Breyer is Undecided on Retirement; Spears Demands Dad Be Charged with Abuse; Real-Life Impact of Inflation; Daniel Silva is Interviewed on his New Book. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 15, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Wearing shorts and sandals, felling, you know, none of the pressures of being in Washington and hearing from all his liberals back here saying, go, go so that President Biden gets his first appointment to the high court. But he said he hasn't made his decision. And he said -- he told me his two overriding priorities are to think about his health. He's going to be 83 next month, but he's a vigorous 82, nearly 83 person. He jogs, meditates.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Meditates. Meditates.

BISKUPIC: He does a lot of -- he does a lot of the healthy kinds of things that we should all be doing, I guess. And -- and he also, you know, is thinking about the court. That's his second concern, about the institutional values of the court. He doesn't want to give into politics. And he wants to think about what would be best for the court and his own personal health.

KEILAR: In that order.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You've got to say --

BISKUPIC: No, the order is health first.

KEILAR: Health first.

BISKUPIC: He said health -- he said health, of course, is his priority.

KEILAR: Very telling.

BISKUPIC: Is he feeling healthy.

BERMAN: But the answer to that is, yes, right?

BISKUPIC: Yes.

BERMAN: He is feeling healthy.

BISKUPIC: Yes. BERMAN: And when he talks about the court as an historical

constitution, the way he sees it or wishes it would be is away from politics.

The way it is, Jeffrey, may be vastly different. And I think that this news from Joan might upset a lot of liberals who were hoping for something different.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: You know, as usual, Stephen Breyer is playing checkers and Mitch McConnell is playing chess. I mean the -- the idea that he is somehow preserving the court by pretending that politics has nothing to do with the Supreme Court, you know, is just delusional. And -- but -- but, you know, he's in charge of whether Stephen Breyer retires. And he is in good health. He does have all his marbles. He does, you know, want to be, as Joan writes in this story -- Joan always gets these exclusives that everyone who covers the Supreme Court wants -- he says, you know, he likes being the senior liberal on the court, which he hasn't been because Ruth Ginsburg, you know, was -- was senior to him.

But, you know, the fact is, if he waits, like Ruth Ginsburg waited, thinking that, oh, well, you know, a Democrat will somehow replace me, you know, then we will get another Amy Coney Barrett when Tom Cotton is president, or, you know, whoever the next Republican is.

You know, this is the kind of absence of strategic thinking that has done in Democrats on the Supreme Court and we'll see if it continues here.

KEILAR: Because, take us, Jeffrey, through the scenarios here, when the window closes for him being replaced if he decided to leave, by someone who would be appointed by a Democrat, and then what the possibility, as you mentioned, that a Republican might be elected in the next cycle.

TOOBIN: Well, it doesn't even have to be -- remember, we have a midterm election coming up.

KEILAR: Yes.

TOOBIN: And if historical trends continue, the Republicans are going to retake the Senate. Now, I don't know if that's going to happen, but that's the trend.

And Mitch McConnell has all but said, in the next two years -- not one year, in the next two years, if he's majority leader, he will not allow a vote on a -- on a Democratic replacement -- you know, a Joe Biden replacement for Supreme Court justice.

So the -- the margin now is about a year and a half. But it could be even shorter than that.

Now, with all respect to Pat Leahy, Pat Leahy is quite old. He is the senior senator from Vermont. If he would have to resign, there's a Republican governor in Vermont who would appoint his successor. So, you know, the window for him to leave is extremely small to assure a Democratic replacement.

You know, maybe, Joan, you know, maybe he'll leave next year. But who knows what the story will be next year before the midterms. I mean, you know, he is -- he is gambling with the future of the Supreme Court and, you know, Ruth Ginsburg lost that gamble. We'll see what happens with Stephen Breyer.

BERMAN: Does Breyer know this, Joan? Will he reconsider next year?

BISKUPIC: He's -- he has -- you know, he's watched all this. He, obviously, was with -- at the side of Ruth Bader Ginsburg as she kept rejecting pleas to step down. And she almost made it. You know, she died, obviously, in September, and her replacement came on just days before President Trump lost the election.

But he's -- I think in his mind he probably thinks he has until next year because, you know, on paper, the Senate should stay Democratic majority until at least the midterms. So he would have that. And I know lots of liberals think that's a risk.

But, you know, heck, this is a lifetime appointment. As I mentioned earlier, you know, he was -- he was a junior justice for 11 years, nearly a record, and then he spent the last ten years, number two to Ruth Bader Ginsburg. This is a new experience he has being the senior liberal, having more influence in the justices' private sessions. And he, obviously, wants to seize that. And maybe he'll seize it just for one more year, which is making lots of people nervous.

[08:35:04]

But I think -- I think he'll at least get this next year out and then we'll probably go through a version of what we've gone through this spring in 2022.

TOOBIN: Well, what other job do we say that 82-year-olds shouldn't retire? I mean, come on. I mean it's just, you know, 82 is not the new anything. Eighty-two is old. He's been on the court --

KEILAR: It's kind of old -- old --

BISKUPIC: Well, the Senate --

TOOBIN: He's been on the court --

BISKUPIC: The Senate, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: He's been on the court since 1994. No one's shoving him off prematurely. I mean what is it with these justices that they can't say, you know what, I've been here for 20 years, 30 years, it's time to go?

KEILAR: Jeffrey, when you, in 30 years, when we are getting analysis from you, will you change your tune, sir?

TOOBIN: I'm just trying to hang on month to month, you know?

BERMAN: All right, Joan, Jeffrey, thank you both for being with us. Appreciate it.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, the price is on the rise at the grocery store, the gas station, putting a strain on the family budget.

KEILAR: Plus, the new ruling in Britney Spears' fight for freedom. Could it help get her out of the conservatorship that she calls abusive?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:15]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRITNEY SPEARS, MUSICIAN (singing): With a taste of your lips, I'm on a ride. You're toxic, I'm slipping under.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: A win for the free Britney movement. Britney Spears now able to hire her own attorney. You might have been surprised to learn that she couldn't do that before. And this is happening after a California court granted her permission to do that.

Joining the hearing via telephone, Spears demanded that her father be charged with abuse. She called the 13-year conservatorship that he has led f-ing cruelty and she expressed fears that her conservators were trying to kill her.

So, let's talk about this now. Nischelle Turner, CNN contributor and host of "Entertainment Tonight," and criminal defense attorney Sara Azari.

Sarah, to you first.

Is this a sign that this conservatorship is going to end or change?

SARA AZARI, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Good morning, Brianna.

Yes, it is in some way because, number one, remember that Britney has never had anybody in the course of this conservatorship that she could trust. And she finally has an attorney of her own choice. It opens the door to her finally filing these petitions that are long overdue to, number one, remove her father as the conservator and then move forward towards termination of the conservatorship.

And I think it also sends a message, Brianna, that the court perhaps is finally recognizing that maybe she is able to make some decisions for herself. She has made this request before to get her own attorney and it's been denied. And so this grant is a huge win for her because she now can proceed with somebody that she's chosen, with somebody that she trust to advocate for her to, first and foremost, remove her father, whom she claims is abusive. And she, of course, has the burden of proving that abuse, that cruelty in order to get him removed, because without him being removed she's not going to get this terminated.

KEILAR: Repeatedly, Nischelle, she has said that she feels abused.

NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Yes, I mean, it's tough to hear. I mean, you know, she broke down in tears in court yesterday. It was when she was talking about a therapy dog that she had come in contact with. But then she went on to say that, you know, she feels stuck. She feels like she's in a situation that she has no control over.

Now, I do want to say, though, in court yesterday, her father's attorney made the point of saying that they feel like Britney's gotten a lot of misinformation. I mean one of the things she said was there is no order saying Britney can't have a baby and I think she doesn't understand that she does have the right to make some medical decisions and that Jaime is the conservator of her estate and not her medical decisions. But I think there's that gray area there that nobody really knows, you know, how to proceed with. And I think that's where Britney feels very stuck.

So, yes, I mean, she's made it clear that she wants this to end. I think that she's getting a lot of -- she's getting a lot of support from the free Britney movement. Now the Hollywood community is starting to support her a lot.

But I think we all should remember as well, there was an order, you know, that Britney had issues with mental health, and that's what sparked all of this. So while, you know, people are kind of in this movement of saying let her do -- you know, just be free, there was something there that sparked a lot of this. So I think maybe the -- you know, the mental health and the medical aspects, we do still have to keep in mind here.

KEILAR: Sara, what do you say about that, because she has alleged that they were essentially controlling (INAUDIBLE) and have a baby. We also heard her say that she couldn't spend any money. I mean if you're going to have a doctor's appointment presumably that would require spending money.

AZARI: That's right. And, you know, there's a lot of finger pointing by Jaime Spears to Jody Montgomery, who was her personal conservator, of course. But one thing is clear here is that the amount of control that Jaime Spears has exercised over Britney Spears goes far beyond what is normal in sort of supervision and a conservatorship.

And the other point is, is that he has got -- his conflict of interest is beyond, you know, what is inherent in a parent/child relationship. And that we know that at some point he profited from her tours.

So, you know, it's the idea that where there's money and guardianship, there's greed. And this has to come to an end. I think she might need some supervision, some assistance. Maybe she's not perfectly OK mentally, but not to the extent of the conservatorship that was put in place 13 years ago when she had a breakdown. I think it's ridiculous and it's time for her to live her life.

KEILAR: All right, this is really just a turning point.

[08:45:00]

Sara and Nischelle, thank you so much to both of you.

TURNER: Sure.

KEILAR: Just ahead, sticker shock everywhere you shop. How today's higher prices makes it harder to stretch your dollar.

BERMAN: And "The New York Times" bestselling author who rewrote his new novel after watching the Capitol riots on TV.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Consumer inflation, the hottest it's been in 13 years. And these are the prices that you pay. At factories, prices for raw materials also surging. That means higher prices for you down the road.

CNN chief business correspondent and star of "EARLY START," Christine Roman here with a look at all that.

And, you know, and these prices really hit you in very specific ways and you feel it just going to the gas station.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CHIEF BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

Look, it's sticker shock. And there's a lot of different reasons. And there's a quirk of the calendar and math because, remember, last year, the economy just fell apart. So we're comparing falling down to this big rally.

[08:50:00]

But look at gas prices, for example. And I wanted to take this out of percentage terms and just say, last year, if you had a typical car with 12 gallons of gas, you paid $26 to fill it up. This year you're paying $37. That's $11. That's real money -- oops, and that's a real -- that's $11. Say you fill up every week or every couple of weeks --

BERMAN: Sure.

ROMANS: That's real money out of your pocket.

You look at other consumer prices. Say you had $100 in groceries. Last year it was $100. This year you're paying about $2.40 more. Maybe you can make some changes in what you're buying, but that -- those are real increases.

Used car prices, this is a third of the increase in consumer inflation, a third of it, is just because of used cars. But there's a really funky reason here. Last year all the car rental agencies, they sold off their fleets. Used car prices cratered because there was all this supply. And now what's happening? Well, you can't get a new car as easily because of the chip shortage because of COVID. All of this is because of COVID and just what -- the craziness that happened in the economy. Used car prices up 45 percent. $26,000 for a new car. We've never seen that before.

BERMAN: Who is this hitting the hardest?

ROMANS: This is hitting people who have less money the hardest. Let me show you. Families who earn $30,000 to $70,000 a year, they spend, just on the basic, just on the necessities, food, utilities and rent, they spend about a quarter to a third of every dollar on the basic, right?

So take a look at the next level of family. $15,000 to $30,000. They're spending half of every dollar just on the basic. So when the basics go up in price, they have less money to work with.

Look at this, families earning less than $15,000, they spent more than they make. They spend everything on the basic plus 16 percent more. That means that they are taking on debt or they're relying on child tax credits through the tax code to help them get by, which brings us to the news today.

BERMAN: Which they will get more of as of now.

ROMANS: Right, $250 to $300 per child every month till the end of the year. And then another tax break when they file their taxes in the spring.

So there's money going to families, and specifically that could help on the very low income end counter some of these higher inflation prices.

Look, everyone is debating whether inflation is here to stay, whether this is temporary. Maybe it's temporary. But for right now it's still really, really hurts for low-income Americans.

BERMAN: Christine Romans, thank you very much.

So, just ahead, the new warning from the new U.S. surgeon general. What he said a short time ago about vaccine misinformation.

KEILAR: And, next, the new spy thriller ripped right from the headlines. Daniel Silva joins us live, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:55:52]

BERMAN: So, Daniel Silva's newest thriller, "The Cellist," reads like it has been ripped straight from the headlines. It deals with the global pandemic, the threat from Russia, even the Capitol insurrection on January 6th. In fact, Silva had written most of the latest book when the Capitol was breached and democracy threatened, leading him to throw out more than half the book more or less and start over.

And Daniel Silva joins us now. His latest book, "The Cellist," is now out. It is just so much fun. When I read, though, that you basically rewrote the ending and started

part of the book over, I sort of like broke out in a cold sweat.

DANIEL SILVA, "NEW YORK TIMES" BEST-SELLING AUTHOR: Yes, it falls into the category of, it seemed like a good idea at the time. But, you know, first of the year, that's my stretch drive to finish on time to meet my deadline. So when, you know, January 1st, I locked the door and shut out the outside world and really pushed hard to finish the book. I don't have a TV in my office. I don't have Internet on the computer. Jaime calls me about 2:00 in the afternoon.

BERMAN: Jamie Gangel.

SILVA: Jamie Gangel, the person who was just on the air breaking a little bit of news this morning.

BERMAN: And you know her how?

SILVA: She is my wife.

BERMAN: OK.

SILVA: And, in fact, I've been living with these excerpts from this remarkable new book from Carol Loennig and Phil Rucker for several days now walking around the house doing dramatic readings. But I digress.

But January 6th, she calls me, says, you've got to go upstairs and turn on the television. I said, I can't, I'm on a deadline. I don't want to turn on the TV right now. Go upstairs.

So I go to the kitchen and I turn it on and I see that, you know, thousands of supporters of the president are marauding through the Capitol and our democracy is under siege. It fit exactly into what I was working on. I was writing a book about Russia's efforts to destabilize the west, to destroy our democracy, to use their money as a weapon in their arsenal to destabilize the west. It just fit in exactly to what I was working on.

So I jettisoned the planned ending and from that moment I just wrote a brand-new ending that featured the insurrection and Inauguration Day. So much of what General Milley is talking about, it factors into what I was writing.

So I finished that. The problem was the first half of the book didn't match up. So I had to rewrite all of that. So I had some very, very long days.

The -- I finished the final, final corrections on June 1st, believe it or not.

BERMAN: Oh.

SILVA: The last change I made to the book was to change the dedication. I dedicated it to the Capitol Police and Metropolitan Police who defended our democracy on January 6th. And I will tell you that our country is so divided right now that I'm

facing blowback on the Internet for dedicating the book to the people who saved our Capitol.

BERMAN: To law enforcement?

SILVA: Yes. Party of law enforcement. The party of blue. We back the blue. And I -- you know, President Trump's supporters are so enraged about what happened that day and still so supportive of him that they do not see the Capitol Police officers as heroes.

BERMAN: So, the protagonist here is still Gabrielle Allon --

SILVA: It is.

BERMAN: Who is, you know, the main character in mostly all your books. But any specific mention of Biden or Trump or Trumpism?

SILVA: They -- the story begins in London with the assassination of a dear friend of Gabriel's, a man who once saved his life. He's a Russian oligarch, a dissident Russian oligarch, who's a Kremlin critic. He dies a brutal death by a Russian nerve agent.

Gabriel undertakes a search for the killers. And he soon finds himself in a -- in a desperate race to stop an attack that's going to plunge the United States into political turmoil and leave Russia unchallenged on the world stage. Sound a little familiar? And so that's -- that's what -- that's the story that winds him through and plops him into the middle of our inauguration.

BERMAN: I have about ten seconds left. Who was the model for the cover photo of the book?

SILVA: That's CNN's Jamie Ganel right there, believe it or not. That's -- I'm joking, but we --

BERMAN: She told me it was her.

SILVA: If we take a shot from her -- from behind later today, you'll see what -- it bears a striking resemblance.

[09:00:04]

BERMAN: Daniel Silva, it's great to have you on. Great to have both you and Jaime on in the same show. Congratulations. The new book is "The Cellist."