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COVID Delta Variant Spreading Rapidly Among Unvaccinated in U.S.; Cities and Counties Across U.S. Reimplemented Mask Mandates Due to Delta Variant Spread; Torrance City Councilman Aurelio Mattucci Interviewed on His Opposition to New Los Angeles County Mask Mandate; Florida Paper Calls Out Governor DeSantis: Focus on Outbreak, Not Your Career; Councilman Rejects Demands to Resign After Using Racial Slur. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired July 23, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: The unvaccinated to drop their resistance and to get COVID shots. Even with a safe and effective vaccine available, coronavirus is making a dangerous comeback, thanks mostly to Americans who won't roll up their sleeves. Half the states in the country are falling behind the national average for vaccinations, with Alabama at the bottom of the list. Just a third of its residents are fully vaccinated, and Republican Governor Kay Ivey has had enough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KAY IVEY, (R) ALABAMA: Folks are supposed to have common sense. But it's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. It's the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The surge in new cases has refueled the debate over mask mandates. The Biden administration discussing tougher masking guidance for the vaccinated. In New Orleans Mayor LaToya Cantrell announced the city would be instituting an indoor mask advisory for everyone amid its spike in cases.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR LATOYA CANTRELL, NEW ORLEANS: We know that masking works. We've seen this movie over and over again. And because we've seen this movie over and over again, what really gets me so riled up is the fact that cases that come, and with the rapid pace that they're coming our way, in weeks' time they end up resulting in deaths in our community. And we have the power to prevent that from happening.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: Masking works. So does vaccination. But it's important to note, only 36 percent of people in Louisiana have been fully vaccinated. So joining us now is Dr. Eric Griggs. He's the community medicine

director to Access Health Louisiana. Dr. Griggs, it's good to talk to you. This new advisory comes just two months after NOLA lifted its mask mandate for those folks who are vaccinated. So do you agree with the mayor's decisions here?

DR. ERIC GRIGGS, COMMUNITY MEDICINE DIRECTOR, ACCESS HEALTH LOUISIANA: First of all, good morning, and thank you. Yes, and absolutely. Here in New Orleans and in Louisiana, if you remember, we were one of the hottest spots in the world at one point, and we successfully flattened the curve.

Now, we've been following not only the data of the vaccinated, unvaccinated cases, but the science. The science says that this Delta variant is 1,000 times more concentrated, or the viral load is 1,000 times higher than the original virus, meaning that if I'm infected and I sneeze, whereas I would have maybe 10 viral particles out, if you can imagine para troopers in an elevator. Whereas normally it would be 10 that would spread into the air that everyone breathes, it's 1,000 times that, so 10,000 viral particles.

So the fact that there's 1,000 times the concentration in the air that everyone breathes, it makes sense to protect yourself and those around you, particularly with people that might be asymptomatic and spreading the virus to other people and not know it.

AVLON: It does certainly. We do need to say, though, that the vast majority of folks who are at risk for this are the unvaccinated, and this is really the key thing. And I think the reason there's controversy around this decision is masking everyone as opposed to getting even tougher on the folks who haven't been vaccinated. But this advisory, we should say is not a mandate that will be enforced. It's actually just trying to encourage responsibility on the individuals themselves. So, is that enough? Because the folks who are not vaccinated are also probably not going to wear a mask, Doctor.

GRIGGS: So the thing about it is the folks that are unvaccinated, what this does is it gives time for people to address their concerns. People that are vaccinated, again, you can be infected and not know it and still be breathing out that hyper concentrated, hyper concentrated amount of virus into the air that everyone else breathes.

Now, it's tough. If you're unvaccinated and you see that 97 percent of the hospitalizations and 99.5 percent of the deaths are in the unvaccinated, if that's not motivation enough and you need more time, you want to protect yourself. Again, it's one of those things where it takes time. We're all afraid and anxious of the same things. This is something we've never dealt with before. And it's not punishment. It's protection. And it has to be done in a proper way following all of the tools available that we use to flatten the curve before.

AVLON: It's not punishment, it's protection is a very good line. But the bottom line still is, get vaccinated. There's no reason not to at this point.

GRIGGS: Get vaccinated. AVLON: Dr. Eric Griggs, thank you very much.

GRIGGS: Thank you.

KEILAR: In Los Angeles County, 20 percent of the new cases are among fully vaccinated people, and cases are up a total of 80 percent from last week. This is news that is coming as just last weekend the county reinstated a mask mandate, which is now drawing backlash from some local officials.

[08:05:00]

One of them joining us now, Aurelio Mattucci, he is a city councilman in Torrance which is its own city within Los Angeles, and he is in opposition to the county's current mask mandate. Councilmember, can you explain to us why?

AURELIO MATTUCCI, COUNCILMEMBER, TORRANCE CITY COUNCIL: Well, I think the bottom line is that this mask mandate is really overstepping the boundaries of what government's role is in our lives. I understand a year-and-a-half ago we had -- we had a very good reason to just follow, follow the science and see what would happen. But we're a year-and-a-half into it, and I think the people, especially here in Torrance, in the South Bay area of Los Angeles, we're a completely different animal than the rest of the county. And we are looking to be independent. So a group of us -- group of 11 elected officials, we joined in on a letter to the board of supervisors here in Los Angeles County demanding the reversal of what we find to be an order that is just unjust.

KEILAR: What did you think about the mask mandate during the height of the biggest surge in Los Angeles?

MATTUCCI: Well, I think, I mean --

KEILAR: Did it make sense to you then? Was that something you were in favor of?

MATTUCCI: Not necessarily because I really didn't feel like a piece of cloth would stop a virus. I don't think the virus is --

KEILAR: But sir, it does.

MATTUCCI: Well --

KEILAR: In many cases.

MATTUCCI: I'm sure it does in some cases. I really don't think a microparticle is going to be stopped by a piece of cloth like this.

KEILAR: No, but it does. I'm just saying -- to a layperson that might not -- it may seem that way, but scientists say actually it does.

MATTUCCI: I think it stops projectile of somebody sneezing and coughing, but everyday -- going about every day. But again, that's not really the argument here. KEILAR: That's central to the argument here about masking.

MATTUCCI: But we're a year-and-a-half into it, and I think people are kind of fed up with the government, with all these mandates. Having a mask mandate is, in my opinion, is government overstepping its boundaries.

And quite honestly, if they actually said we highly suggest that you wear a mask, I'd be OK with it. But there's businesses that have suffered, businesses that have closed down, and now they're suffering again because of this new mandate which, in my opinion, has no science to back the fact that we have to mask up when we're fully vaccinated. We were sold the idea of getting vaccinated because we could go back to our normal life. But now we're just kind of repeating the never- ending story. When is it going to stop? We're a year-and-a-half into this. The numbers, especially here in Torrance and the South Bay of Los Angeles County, are actually pretty darn good compared to the rest of the county.

So what we're looking for is the county supervisors to reverse this order, which, by the way, is one county out of, what is it, 58 counties in California that's doing this. And there is really absolutely no reason to do this right now.

KEILAR: I think your frustration about wearing a mask if you're vaccinated, I think there are probably a lot of people who echo that frustration. I've also heard from a lot of people who are frustrated and say, yes, but I'm still going to wear a mask.

I want to ask you because I know that you want the county to repeal this mask mandate. You're also exploring the idea of breaking away from L.A. County, of having Torrance, which it's kind of there in the middle of it, south, you say, but still it's there landlocked in Los Angeles County, breaking away from the county when it comes to the health department. How would that work? How would that be effective if any direction you turn in Torrance you're in Redondo Beach or Gardena or some other place that wouldn't be governed by this small island of a health department?

MATTUCCI: Well, last year, last year I had asked for concurrence from my city council to seek the possibilities of possibly breaking away, not just as a city, but maybe as a regional approach, maybe as a South Bay health district, or even what we call SPA Eight, the Service Planning Area Eight, which is about a little over a million people. So, it's a pretty big area.

Keep in mind that Los Angeles County has over 10 million people. It's a huge, huge area, and to kind of lump it up into one decision, I don't think, I don't think it's fair, and it's not accurate. If we actually would follow the science and data, it would show that the whole South Bay, possibly the whole SPA Eight area doesn't require us to get masked up, especially when we're, when we're fully vaccinated.

[08:10:03]

And I'm looking at it also from a personal choice standpoint. If they want to highly recommend -- if the county wants to come out and say we highly recommend you wear a mask while indoors, I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm just not OK with mandates. And what's more disturbing than anything else is the letter that we received from the board of supervisors in response to our letter. One of the sentences says, what I want to avoid is reinstating the restrictions on businesses that we had in place just months ago. To me that sounds like a threat, and it's either our way or the highway. I don't like that. I don't want government dictating whether we can make a living or not. Government should not get in the way of people earning a living. We've destroyed thousands of jobs, thousands of businesses just here in the south land. And quite honestly, I think a year-and-a-half later, the people are fed up with this. If you want to wear a mask, go ahead. If you want to get vaccinated, go ahead.

KEILAR: Yes, and you said that. Do you think the county would have more confidence in your leadership in Torrance on this if you were actually committed to the science of masks? You're raising -- you're making points that actually are anti-science.

MATTUCCI: Well, actually, I think they're actually very pro science because if you actually look at the science and --

KEILAR: You said you don't think masks work.

MATTUCCI: I personally don't think masks work.

KEILAR: Yes, that's --

MATTUCCI: No, I don't think --

KEILAR: That's anti-science.

MATTUCCI: No, not necessarily, because I don't think --

KEILAR: No, necessarily, absolutely.

MATTUCCI: No, because we've been wearing masks for a year-and-a-half, and it still spreads. So you can't say that people haven't worn masks. I can't see anybody --

KEILAR: I'm not saying it's perfect and nor does the science. But yes, it does still spread. It spreads much less often and much less rapidly and to many fewer people causing fewer deaths. They work.

MATTUCCI: They might, they might slow down the spread and I get it, but you're still going to get it.

KEILAR: Not might. They do.

MATTUCCI: Well, I understand, but you're still going to eventually get COVID-19. Let's just face it. It's just going to keep going around, just like you're going to get the flu possibly next year. I'm not saying that it's the same or any different because I'm not a scientist. I'm not a doctor. I'm not even claiming to be a doctor. But I do believe in personal choice, and our fundamental constitutional rights that we make choices based on what we want for our bodies. We're kind of demonizing people that don't want to get vaccinated, and

I don't think that's right. Some counties, some cities are saying that you can't go to work unless you're vaccinated. I don't think that's right either. People need to make a choice for their own bodies. Whether it's religious, physical, or they want to wait and see what happens.

And right now, I think what we're doing is we're punishing everybody saying, well, everybody mask up because 20, 30 percent that didn't want to get vaccinated yet, at least in our area. Some states are different, some counties are different. I get that. But really, in the end it's about personal choice. My body, my choice. I want to make -- I want to make choices based on what I want to do with my body.

And quite honestly, a year-and-a-half into it, we know that these masks, they may have slowed it down, but you're not going to stop a virus. The virus is unstoppable. We know that. One person can infect 300 million people really in a short period of time. We've seen it happen over and over again. I just don't want this to become just another political move. And I think unfortunately -- unfortunately it's been politicized way too much. We need to stop with the politics.

KEILAR: Councilmember, I really, I appreciate you coming on. I just need to be very clear with our viewers. I think they are pretty clear on this, but masks do work. They slow the spread. They save lives. And we, while we may not be scientists, there is a difference between not being a scientist and listening to one, or not being a scientist and not listening to one. Councilman Mattucci, we appreciate you coming on.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis defiant as his state leads the nation in new cases. We'll have more on the outcry there next.

AVLON: Plus, the NFL's end run around mandatory vaccines, threatening forfeits for outbreaks instead. We'll ask a former player if it's the right play.

And the Alabama lawmaker rejecting calls to resign over his use of a racial slur.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:08]

AVLON: Florida is leading the country with the most new COVID cases and a positivity rate of over 14 percent, the highest it's been in nearly a year. Hospitalizations are also spiking.

"The Orlando Sentinel" is now calling out Governor Ron DeSantis in a scathing editorial that reads, in part: At the moment, it's as if DeSantis has washed his hands of the matter and moved on to the boarders, critical race theory, mocking Fauci, or whatever else will get him a headline. And every few days, nearly as many people are dying from COVID as died in the recent collapse in the condominium in south Florida. To save lives he must start acting like Florida's governor and less

like he's auditioning for Turning Point USA or Texas Governor Greg Abbott or whatever Fox News host comes calling.

Joining me is the "Orlando Sentinel" opinion editor, Mike Lafferty.

Mike, it's good to see you.

Tough stuff in that editorial, but since it was published, Governor DeSantis has resurfaced, returned to the state and this is what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: If anyone is calling for lockdowns, you're not getting that done in Florida.

I have a 3-year-old son. You have people like Fauci saying he should be muzzled, that you should be throwing masks on these 3-year-old kids. It's totally unacceptable.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

AVLON: What's your response?

MIKE LAFFERTY, OPINIONS EDITOR, ORLANDO SENTINEL: Well, you know, the point of our editorial was to try to get the governor back on track when it comes to vaccinations. You know, he was pretty aggressive earlier in the year when he was touting vaccinations for seniors all across the state. And what we wanted him to do, especially in light of these new and pretty alarming statistics, is to do that again, get out and start talking about vaccinations again.

Well, you know, after we published the editorial, I don't know if he did it because of that, but on Wednesday, he made one of the strongest statements that he's made in a long time in endorsing vaccines.

[08:20:11]

But then yesterday, Thursday, the governor was back at it, going after, I don't know, seemingly imaginary federal mask mandate.

And so, I mean, the response is the same as the editorial. We would love to see the governor take down the mission accomplished banner that he hung up and get back out in Florida and start selling this vaccination, these effective vaccines to people so they will stop dying.

AVLON: And this is a matter of life or death. As you say, DeSantis was a real opponent of lockdowns and mask mandates, but was aggressive initially about vaccines. This week, he did sort of double down and rejoin the ranks of many Republican leaders who changed their tune, now touting the benefits of vaccines, a bit of a sea change.

So, do you see that as a step in the right direction, or does he need to do more? And what can he do to convince these vaccine skeptics to get vaccinated? Because this is a pandemic among the unvaccinated, full stop.

LAFFERTY: He can do a lot more. You know, one of the points that the governor made -- it was an interesting point -- is that, you know, if you try to sell this to people who are hesitant in a way that, I don't know, makes them feel demeaned or stupid or something, that's probably not going to work.

Fine, fair enough. The governor knows how to talk to these people. He also knows how to run a campaign. He ran a successful campaign in the state of Florida.

He knows that a one-off message like he did on Wednesday endorsing vaccines isn't enough. He needs to go from city to city to city -- and this is what we point out in the editorial. He needs to get people behind him like he has cops behind him when he signs crime bills.

He needs to get seniors behind him who have been vaccinated, doctors, public health officials. They need to wage a full-on campaign. It needs to be through social media. It needs to be through television. They know how to do this stuff. They just need to get out and do it.

You know, this one-off statement on Wednesday is just -- this is not going to save lives of Floridians.

AVLON: No, and the lives of Floridians are definitely being affected right now as we see numbers spike in the Sunshine State.

Mike Lafferty, thank you so much for joining us.

LAFFERTY: You're welcome.

AVLON: Up next, the Alabama lawmaker who said the "N" word at a public meeting. Why he says he's not going to quit.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: And the NFL threatening to make literal losers out of unvaccinated players.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:26:51]

KEILAR: A white Alabama lawmaker facing mounting calls to resign after referring to a black colleague using a racial slur. But Tarrant City Councilman John Tommy Bryant says he's not going anywhere.

CNN's Ryan Young is live in Atlanta with more.

Ryan, tell us what happened here.

RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it is 2021 so it all played out on video for the first part of this. When you watch how this happens, there was a discussion inside council chambers about Tommy Bryant's wife social media posting. Once it got heated, there was an exchange, and then there was this moment that happened inside the council chambers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN TOMMY BRYANT, TARRANT CITY COUNCILMAN: Do we have a house (AUDIO DELETED) in here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, me, (AUDIO DELETED).

BRYANT: Do we?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.

BRYANT: Do we?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: You can hear how that played out. Tommy Bryant said he is only saying what he heard the mayor say. The mayor is an African-American mayor and his name is Wayman Newton. He was sitting there and looking at the other councilmember who actually got up and started crying after this all played out.

We put the first screen up because the mayor obviously said, look, he doesn't -- he didn't ever say this, and he feels like this is some sort of political stunt.

Now, Tommy Bryant, you would think, after all the calls from the community, would step down. He says he's not stepping down. He's really not sorry for saying it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRYANT: No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. I may consider running for mayor next time because I did what needed to be done. It needed to be brought to light what kind of a person the mayor is in the city of Tarrant.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YOUNG: So, if you're keeping score here, basically Tommy Bryant saying the mayor said this about the African-American council man and that he was just repeating it out loud. But, of course, he used the full language there.

Of course, there's a lot of people in that state who are upset about what they've seen. There have been calls for him to resign. You heard he may plan to run for mayor. That city, by the way, is 53 percent black.

A lot of questions about this, but that video really strikes at a lot of people when you hear him use the N-word so clearly out in council meeting.

KEILAR: Yeah, and you see how hurtful it is just within the walls of that room as well as elsewhere.

Ryan Young, thank you so much.

YOUNG: Thank you.

KEILAR: Up next, the NFL's new memo on COVID and why some players think it's out of bounds.

AVLON: And as CNN celebrates the "History of the Sitcom," we are joined by a, wait for it, mystery guest, one of Brianna's favorites.

KEILAR: Who is it?

AVLON: You'll see.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)