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New Day

DOJ says Trump Officials Can Testify; McCarthy Mocks Cheney and Kinzinger; George P. Bush Doesn't Receive Trump Backing; Teresa Edwards is Interviewed about the Olympics. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 27, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:52]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we are tracking some breaking news right now. Of course we're just moments away from this hearing that is going to happen on Capitol Hill about January 6th. We'll be hearing from police officers who were on the frontlines.

But Evan Perez is here with something new.

Evan, what can you tell us?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, this morning we can report that the Justice Department has declined to assert executive privilege for the testimony of former Justice Department officials who may be called to testify before this committee, this January 1st - January 6th committee.

That's an important move simply because it means it paves the way for the potential testimony of Jeffery Rosen, for instance. He is the former deputy attorney general, was the acting attorney general during the time of the insurrection. He's also was involved in this pressure campaign that the Trump White House, the president, Mark Meadows and others people were trying to push the Justice Department to say that there was fraud in the days after President Trump lost the election.

And so he can testify to a lot of things, including the type of pressure that he was under, other officials were under. And we'll see what else he can tell us about what he witnessed in those early days of January.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Just one point of clarification here. The current Justice Department isn't going to stand in and try to block the testimony. Does that mean that Jeffery Rosen, definitionally, will just show up the minute he's called?

PEREZ: Well, potentially. I mean it means that, you know, he -- when he shows up, and he's called to testify, right now, what the Justice Department is saying is that his testimony is not covered by executive privilege and so, therefore, he can say everything that he witnessed during that time.

Now, this applying for former justice officials. This is not related to White House officials who were covered by a different type of executive privilege. And so, look, we don't know what the committee is going to ask for. We suspect that Jeffery Rosen is among the people who they're going to ask testimony from. But you can bet that Mark Meadows and other people they would love to hear from, we'll see whether that -- whether they assert executive privilege.

But keep in mind, President Trump, the former president, can still, you know, try to go to court and try to block some of this testimony and try to claim executive privilege.

[08:35:10]

At this point, the Justice Department is not standing in the way. So there's a few more steps before we get to that day.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: May I -- may I -- may I jump in?

BERMAN: Well, hang on.

Evan.

Joining us now --

TAPPER: I just -- if I can ask Evan a question.

BERMAN: Yes.

PEREZ: Yes.

TAPPER: Merrick Garland, the attorney general for President Biden, is known and respected by some, although not by progressives, as being very conservative when it comes to such things, when it comes to being an institutionalist, declining to -- I mean there was that personal lawsuit -

PEREZ: E. Jean Carroll.

TAPPER: For E. Jean Carroll against Donald Trump in which basically the Biden administration sided with Trump essentially on -- at least on the precedent and the principle.

Do you think that he would have done this, Garland and the Justice Department, to Biden without Jeffery Rosen's at least tacit approval?

PEREZ: Look, I think -- I think you're on to something there. I suspect that you have witnesses who are willing to testify.

TAPPER: Yes.

PEREZ: And so that's a big deal. During -- you know, during the Trump years you had witnesses who, if they wanted to, could have answered some questions but they hid behind executive privilege because the Justice Department and the White House gave it to them. If you have witnesses who actually do want to testify, it makes a huge difference. And so if Rosen wants to testify and answer these -- answer the questions that are asked of him, I suspect that you're going to have a different -- a different outcome now because of this ruling. But you're right, Jake, I mean, it all dependents on the willingness of these witnesses.

TAPPER: Yes, I just don't think Garland, if Rosen didn't want to testify, I don't think Garland would have done this.

BERMAN: Well, this is an interesting question, right, because the committee, which will begin holding the open hearings today, anchored by Jake Tapper, right here.

TAPPER: Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

BERMAN: You know, one of the questions is, who will they call to testify? Will they call former Trump administrations officials and how hard will the former Trump administration officials fight it? Will they just not show up, as they chose to do during the Trump presidency and what happens then? But this is different perhaps if Jeffery Rosen does want to show.

TAPPER: Well, and there are a number of Trump officials, former Trump officials, who, and we've seen this since the end of the Trump presidency, and even before the end of the Trump presidency when the writing was on the wall, who were eager to try to depict their roles, especially in those crazy final months, as not enabling Donald Trump's mad pursuit of undoing the Democratic election that we've seen Bill Barr, we've seen others out there giving interviews, eager to bring some attention, you know, critics would say it's recidivism or, you know, 11th hour justifications.

But -- so that will be interesting to see who wants to stand up and say, no, I was actually trying to keep the guardrails there and who will hide behind the fear in a lot of cases of what Trump will do.

PEREZ: One of the more interesting things that happened at the Justice Department is around the turn of the year, January 1st, is when, you know, there was an official, Jeffery Clark, who was lower level in the Justice Department, essentially went to the president and auditioned for the job. It was a very unusual situation. So this is -- this is one story, I think, that would -- that this committee should want to hear about, which is, you know, Rosen basically had to go to the president and argue for his job. And other top Justice Department officials were ready to resign en masse if --

TAPPER: Don't forget that U.S. attorney in Georgia, right?

PEREZ: Right. Right. Yes, exactly.

TAPPER: Who basically resigned instead of coming forward with a bunch of lies and nonsense over the election in Georgia.

PEREZ: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: So this is now intriguing. It opens up a whole range of possibilities. We will have to see what happens on this front.

Evan Perez, thank you so much for that reporting.

KEILAR: And I want to listen and get your perspective on something, Jake, that Kevin McCarthy said.

TAPPER: Sure.

KEILAR: Because, of course, we know that there are two Republicans who are on this committee, picked by Speaker Pelosi, Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger. And this is how Kevin McCarthy, the top Republican in the House, described them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Some Republicans have been saying that the GOP should play ball with this committee.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): Really?

QUESTION: You think you could get along --

MCCARTHY: Who was that? Who was that, Adam and Liz?

QUESTION: Well -- well --

MCCARTHY: Aren't they -- aren't they kind of Pelosi Republicans?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think about that?

TAPPER: First of all, we should note that Congresswoman Liz Cheney said that that was -- I think she used childish as the -- as the -- as the term.

KEILAR: Childish. They both did, yes.

TAPPER: Second of all, Ramesh Ponnuru, the new editor of "The National Review," was on my show yesterday and he noted that that will be used against Cheney and possibly Kinzinger in primary races against them. So Kevin McCarthy, the House Republican leader, knew what he was doing there. He was coming up with a term that primary challengers can use against them.

The third observation I'd make is that you have a number of Republicans in the House caucus. You have one, Paul Gosar, who regularly meets with and flirts with white supremacists, white nationalists.

[08:40:02]

You have one, Matt Gaetz, who is under criminal investigation for a case involving child sex trafficking. You have Marjorie Greene, who regularly belittles the Holocaust by comparing mask wearing to the Holocaust and had some crazy insinuation that the Rockefellers and other Jewish families were behind lasers causing wildfires. These three people do not offend Kevin McCarthy. These three people do

not bother Kevin McCarthy based on his public statements or lack thereof. But Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger do. Liz Cheney, who is far more conservative than Kevin McCarthy. According just to voting records, Kevin McCarthy votes with Nancy Pelosi far more than Liz Cheney does.

KEILAR: That's right.

TAPPER: So, I mean, that's who Kevin McCarthy is.

KEILAR: That's not the test, though, these days, right? The test is --

TAPPER: Not -- it's not about your conservative principles, it's about whether or not you're willing to support Donald Trump's lies.

KEILAR: Oh.

BERMAN: Along those lines --

TAPPER: Ah, yes.

BERMAN: George P. Bush --

TAPPER: Oh, boy.

BERMAN: The current land commissioner in Texas, who is running for attorney general in Texas, has actively, aggressively, obsessively sought the endorsement or at least the approval of Donald J. Trump despite the fact that the former president belittled the Bush family and really brutalized George P.'s father, Jeb, in the 2015-2016 primaries there. George P. even putting out this campaign koozie. This is the side that's an issue right here, where George P. put out like a graphic depiction of a meeting between Donald Trump and George P. Bush, where Trump says, you know, he's the one member of the Bush family that I like or that agrees with me. You know, Bush doing everything he could to get Trump's endorsement. What does Trump do? Endorse Ken Paxton, his opponent.

TAPPER: Well, Ken Paxton - first of all, we should - two things. First of all Kevin -- Ken Paxton, who is under investigation himself, is the one who put forward that deranged lawsuit that sought to take away the electoral votes of four states based on lies that the Supreme Court basically got and threw out the window. So he has already proved his bona fides by doing this major thing to support Donald Trump's election lie.

Second of all, I have a difficult time getting past the George P. kowtowing to begin with because you'll remember it wasn't just that he went after George P. Bush's dad, Jeb Bush, or his uncle, George W. Bush. It wasn't -- politics is a contact sport. That happens.

He retweeting a racist attack on George P. Bush's Mexico -- Mexico- born mom, retweeted at Donald Trump as a candidate. And then when Dana Bash at the Simi Valley Reagan Library debate that we did in 2015, when Dana Bash raised the issue and Jeb Bush said to Donald Trump, you -- he owed his wife an apology. He refused to apologize for it. So he has been part of a racist attack on George P. Bush's mom.

Now, whether he got the payoff he desired or not, I have a difficult time getting past that issue. But I guess whether it's Ted Cruz or George P. Bush, they are willing to look past really hideous attacks on family members in order to get Donald Trump's support.

BERMAN: What's your phrase?

KEILAR: Which one?

BERMAN: Blood is thicker than water.

KEILAR: Oh, blood is thicker than water, but it's not thicker than Kool-Aid because that is what Donald Trump demands.

This isn't the first time --

TAPPER: I don't know how you make Kool-Aid. That's a very -- it's -- it's a -- that's -- it's a --

KEILAR: Well, my -- my point being that this isn't the only person that he is --

TAPPER: I get the metaphor. I'm saying it doesn't work unless you have like really sugary Kool-Aid. I don't know how you make it.

KEILAR: Yes, no, it's -- you have --

TAPPER: All right. Keep going. Sorry. Sorry.

KEILAR: Suspension of disbelief if you build just for the purpose of something.

TAPPER: OK. Never mind. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I'm being technical.

KEILAR: You're a fiction writer. I'm going to need you to work with me on this.

TAPPER: I'm sorry, I apologize.

KEILAR: OK, so, my point is, this isn't the first time that he's demanded this of someone to come out, be in favor of him over a family member, right? And it never goes well. I don't --

TAPPER: I don't think Donald Trump was even asking for it.

KEILAR: I don't -- no, no, I -- he wasn't.

TAPPER: George P. was just doing it.

KEILAR: It's why I'm saying -- but, so let's focus on George P. Bush's behavior here because he's responsible for that. Why would George P. Bush, looking at what has happened with his family, this sort of like Hatfields and the McCoys of politics in a way when it comes to Republican politics, why would he put his dignity in Donald Trump's hands? TAPPER: This is where the center of the Republican Party is. In order to win a primary, you -- you are far more likely to succeed in most places, most parts of the country and most primaries if you have the support of Donald Trump. So he did it very clearly because he thought it was the best way he could win. I'm sure he doesn't -- he -- I'm sure he doesn't support racist attacks on his mom, he was just willing to look past it. I mean, he's part Mexican too, right? So he was willing to look past it.

Now, when asked about this, George P. Bush said something along the lines of, you know, we have to get beyond just mean tweets. But -- and, look, everybody has their own level. I have a difficult time imagining ever forgiving anybody that went after my family. But I'm not a politician and I'm not trying to get Donald Trump's endorsement.

[08:45:02]

But that -- that's where the Republican Party center of gravity is and that's why, when Kevin McCarthy calls Kinzinger and Cheney Pelosi Republicans he knows what he's doing.

BERMAN: I'm an avid viewer of "THE LEAD," which airs, you know --

TAPPER: Thank you, sir.

BERMAN: Of course, 6:00 p.m. every day right here on CNN.

I heard an interview yesterday between you and Paul Offit, who's, you know, a chop (ph) in Philadelphia, one of the best children's hospitals on earth. And Dr. Offit is, you know, an expert on vaccines and immunizations. And he's so measured --

TAPPER: Totally, yes.

BERMAN: On how he talks about everything. He's been so helpful over the last year.

But in this interview with you, he was pissed about what's going on with vaccinations.

TAPPER: Yes.

BERMAN: He's pissed at people who, at this point, are choosing to be unvaccinated and also spreading the misinformation here. I thought it was such an interesting discussion.

TAPPER: I was really surprised. My dad has known Paul Offit -- my dad's a pediatrician in Philadelphia and he's known Paul Offit for decades. I never met him personally. I've only had him on the show staring last year, as we all have, as he's an expert when it comes to vaccine education. And he comes on the show and he talks about, you know, he's an apolitical guy.

Yes, but, yes, he was really, really mad. And he actually told the story about this measles outbreak in Philadelphia in 1991 where there were families that were refusing to get their kids vaccinated. And I forget if it was the city or the commonwealth of Pennsylvania that stepped in, that forced these kids -- forced the vaccines on these kids to save the lives of the kids and also people in the surrounding community.

But, yes, he's mad. He's mad because he doesn't understand. We have a way to end this pandemic and people are refusing. In fact, it's -- it's so sad. I don't get mad at the people. And I don't think he was mad at the people. But he's just mad at the situation. But it's so sad.

And this has been going on now since last April where you see obituaries written about people who were vaccine deniers and who were Trump supporters who, you know, were just following his lead on everything except for his, you know, tepid endorsement of the vaccine that Operation Warp Speed helped create, that he -- that he signed into law or supported or whatever. And it's so sad.

I think you guys interviewed somebody the other day who was a radio host or the wife of a radio host.

BERMAN: Yes, his brother, Mark -- Phil Valentine's brother, the Tennessee radio host who, you know, was against taking the vaccine, is now in the hospital and now supports it desperately. And his brother was on, who was against taking the vaccine, said he ran to Walgreens to get the shot the minute his brother went in the hospital.

TAPPER: We see the stories day after day after day. And I know the temptation is to be mad at these people but I think what we need to remember is, just as with the election, they're being lied to. They're being lid to by people they respect. They're being lied to by politicians and people in the media who they listen to. And I'm not mad at them for believing the lies, I'm mad at the liars.

BERMAN: But the -- their decisions are having an impact on your kids.

TAPPER: That's true.

BERMAN: And everyone's grandparents.

KEILAR: Kids can't -- a lot of kids can't get venerable -- or they can't get vaccinated, so they're venerable.

TAPPER: I have a kid who's under 12. We -- he hasn't been vaccinated yet. It's very, very sad. And it makes me really worry. And we also see, by the way, the Republican Party, House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, he -- I don't see the leadership. There are Republicans out there who talk about the vaccines, who praise the vaccines. Senator Tommy Tuberville, Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. They are a bunch of Republicans who are out there praising the vaccine. But I don't see the effort to support the vaccine from the Republican Party the way that I see an effort from people like Kevin McCarthy to support the election lie.

BERMAN: Jake Tapper, great to see you in person.

TAPPER: Thanks, guys. It's great to here. BERMAN: Do not miss Jake's special coverage of the hearing, which begins in just a few minutes.

So just ahead, an Olympic shocker. Superstar gymnast Simone Biles out of the team competition, withdrawing just a few minutes ago in Tokyo. We'll tell you why, next.

Plus, a big day for answers in the attack on the U.S. Capitol. Four police officers set to give firsthand accounts in the first public hearing of the Select January 6th Committee.

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[08:53:08]

BERMAN: Breaking news this morning.

U.S. gymnastics star Simone Biles pulling out of the team competition at the Tokyo Olympics. She's considered the greatest gymnast of all time. She may be the greatest athlete on earth now. And now her teammates, who are all first time Olympians, will be forced to finish the competition, the team competition, without her. It's now unclear whether Biles will still compete Thursday in the individual events or the all-around individual final.

Joining us now is Teresa Edwards. She's the winner of four gold medals and the first U.S. basketball player to participate in five Olympic games.

It's such an honor to have you on this morning. I should also note, you're the author of a new audiobook called "Black Gold," about her days as a pioneering member of the U.S. women's national basketball team.

As I said, terrific having you on, especially this morning when we're trying to come to terms with what's happening with Simone Biles, maybe the greatest athlete on earth. Just what's your reaction to this news?

TERESA EDWARDS, FIRST AMERICAN BASKETBALL PLAYER TO PARTICIPATE IN FIVE OLYMPIC GAMES: Sure. Heartbreaking. You know, I'm feeling deeply -- pretty much like everyone in the country right now. Like, what happened? I feel like she's had a lot of weight on her shoulders. I feel like she's trying to carry this load for a lot of us, not just her teammates. So my heart really goes out to her.

KEILAR: I wonder if you think, when it comes to the Olympics, if there's, you know, is there anyone who bears a burden more than the star on the female gymnastics team because of the nature of the individual competition, as well as the team competition, and the expectation that they'll come out on top?

EDWARDS: I think we're -- we're -- you've got to hope that they'll rise to the occasion, that they'll come together and be stronger because of it. She's not going to go anywhere. Her heart -- they wear their heart, she wears theirs, and that's just what happens on a team. It's just unfortunate. And these things happen. And we've seen great things come out of these situations as well during the Olympic Games.

BERMAN: So I want to talk U.S. women's basketball seeking the seventh straight gold medal.

[08:55:05]

And this is a team with some incredible experience on it right now.

What do you think the chances are?

EDWARDS: I think we have our work cut out for us. It may look easy, but e work really, really hard. Sue Bird and Diana Taurasi are not going to let us down. They're going to work their tails off. They're going to go for this new record of five medals --five gold medals, and deservingly so. So I'm hoping with that motivation we have a seventh gold medal to attribute to the women's basketball.

KEILAR: You know, the thing is, Teresa, the men's basketball team is underperforming. They lost their first game since 2004. I mean this was shocking. What do you make of this shift in what was once such a dominant program?

EDWARDS: I think that the changing of the tides and the other countries catching up to us, as well as, you know, preparation time. It's really hard to get that chemistry when you have a lot of stars. So they're just going to have to dive in and go real deep within themselves really, really fast to get on track. I truly believe in our guys. I think they are talented as ever. But coming together as a cohesive unit really fast on this stage is not always easy. And the other countries are truly catching up to us and you've got to respect that. If you don't respect your opponent, they can definitely slip up on you.

BERMAN: Controversy around all Olympic games. One of the ones that actually happened before the beginning this time which is U.S. sprinter Sha'Carri Richardson suspended because of a positive marijuana test. Now, this day and age, marijuana keeping a sprinter out of the games, what do you think?

EDWARDS: Changing times. Very, very changing. I'm an old school person. You know, I really didn't have complication of this matter. I have a lot of respect for the young lady because she's very talented. But I really don't want to have a sharp opinion about how it went down for her and what those uses are because it is, you know, these rules are changing every day in our world. Athletics are looked upon totally different than it was when I was competing. So just going to reserve it. I really, really want to see her compete.

KEILAR: I want to see her compete. Everyone wants to see her compete. That was going to be one of the highlights. So it's so incredibly, you know, disappointing that that happened.

But, Teresa, thank you so much for being with us. It's very much an exciting time.

And, look, we're on a roller coaster here, I'll tell you, with this Simone Biles news. So we appreciate you discussing it with us.

EDWARDS: Thank you.

KEILAR: And just moments from now, the first hearing by the committee that is investigating the January 6th attack is going to be getting underway. Four officers expected to testify about what they saw.

Stand by for that.

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[09:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. I'm Jake Tapper.

To our viewers here in the United States and around the world, welcome to CNN's special live coverage.