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Nations Roll Out Health Passes; Vaccine Skeptic Explains Changing Her Mind; Subpoenas from January 6th Committee. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 30, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We appreciate you being with us this morning. We're so happy for your happiness.

SHYENNE LEE, SISTER OF OLYMPIC GOLD MEDAL GYMNAST SUNISA LEE: Thank you, guys. I'm so happy for her. She deserves it so much.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: It's amazing.

You know, it's -- John, I get goose bumps watching.

BERMAN: Yes.

KEILAR: You know, just watching Suni perform. So I can't even imagine what it's like to be her family. But I think one of the things I also appreciate about her story is that, of course, she's amazing and you watch what she achieves, but then you see what it takes and you hear the story of her family and you hear about her dad and what everyone has gone through and you talk to Shyenne and she's so incredibly supportive and you see this village that it really takes to push someone to that level.

BERMAN: Look, when you watch the reaction of that family and those friends have, sheer, unadulterated joy and a joy, I think, that was spread across the entire nation. Wonderful to see.

All right, countries across Europe rolling out vaccination health passes. Would that work in the United States?

KEILAR: Plus, a former vaccine skeptic is going to join us to explain why she changed her mind and went ahead and got the shot.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:35:23]

BERMAN: Countries across Europe rolling out so-called health passes for admission to public venues as the delta variant spreads. To get one, people have to prove that their fully vaccinated, recently tested negative for the virus or recently recovered from the virus.

Frederik Pleitgen joins us now from Berlin.

Obviously, Fred, we're watching this here and wondering, could this ever work in the United States.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

BERMAN: But tell us how it's working there.

PLEITGEN: Well, it certainly seems to be working here. And I think one of the interesting things, John, that we've seen over the past couple of months is after a really slow start with the vaccinations, most of these European countries have now caught up with the U.S. as far as the vaccination rates are concerned. Although the amount of vaccinations is sort of starting to lag here as well because, of course, you have summer holidays and also right now there's less coronavirus going around as well.

Now, one of the reasons why politicians are so sure that the public is going to accept these measures is that in the publics, in many European countries, a lot of people are fed up with people who don't want to get vaccinated. And that's why politicians are pushing this through despite some very public and sometimes aggressive backlash.

Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN (voice over): Unrest on the streets of Paris. The crowd protesting new vaccine mandates put in place in an effort to stop a surge in coronavirus infections. But despite the mayhem, France's president says he won't budge and that he's had it with people refusing vaccination.

What is your freedom worth if you say to me I don't want to be vaccinated but if tomorrow you infect your father, your mother or me, he says?

France just passed a law mandating so-called virus passes or green passes for visits to restaurants and for domestic travel. One reason why the government remains steadfast in the face of often violent protests, the vast majority in France endorses this stricter measures experts say.

MICHAEL WIEVIORKA, SOCIOLOGIST, EHESS: These people speak only in their own private name. They don't take into account the collectively, the fact that protecting one's self is also protecting the whole society.

PLEITGEN: As that delta variant of the coronavirus spreads fast, countries across Europe are turning to green passes and, in some cases, vaccination mandates to get people protected. Starting in early August, Italy will require green passes for all indoor hospitality. The passes provide proof that people have either been vaccinated, have recovered from COVID-19, or have a negative PCR test no older than 48 hours.

Germany, Austria, Denmark, Portugal and others are already using varying forms of green passes for access to dining and other aspects of public life. PLEITGEN (on camera): Here in Germany, for instance, we have what's

called the digital vaccination certificate. It looks like this. And people who have been fully vaccinated, or who have recovered from a COVID-19 infection, just have a lot less hassle getting into bars and restaurants and even traveling around Europe.

PLEITGEN (voice over): More and more countries are turning to green passes. And while thousands recently protested against vaccination requirements outside the Greek parliament in Athens, at restaurants nearby, diners were enjoying dinner but only for those who are fully vaccinated.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PLEITGEN: As you can see, John, the infrastructure is very much in place here with those digital vaccination passes that everybody in Europe really can get. However, one of the things that the governments here in Europe are saying is they really understand that they need to prepare for the fall when they believe could be another wave of COVID going around here in the continent as well.

Not everything is rosy here on the continent, though I would say one of the things that we learned this morning here in Germany is that several states have actually given vaccines back to the central government because they simply couldn't find enough people to take them, John.

BERMAN: I will say, with those vaccine passes, I'd feel a lot better in places where I know everyone else is vaccinated.

PLEITGEN: Yes.

BERMAN: Thank you so much for that report, Fred, appreciate it.

PLEITGEN: Yes.

KEILAR: As coronavirus cases surge, sources tell CNN that President Biden feels he has struck a brick wall trying to convince unvaccinated Americans to get the shot. My next guest was one of the millions of Americans who had been hesitant about the vaccine, but she recently changed her mind.

Margelet Hamilton is with us now to talk about this. She is an assistant professor of mathematics at Tallahassee Community College in Florida.

Margelet, thank you so much for talking to us about this. It's such an important thing for us to understand.

So tell us a little bit about why you were hesitant at first about the vaccine.

[06:40:00]

MARGELET HAMILTON, VACCINE HESITANT BEFORE DECIDING TO GET VACCINATED: Thank you for having me. I was hesitant to get the vaccine due to -- just like every other -- a

lot of Americans -- conspiracy theories, the fact that it came out so quickly and was it going to have any backlash once you have taken it? So I had some really big concerns about it and some fears about it. And so it took me a while. And I just wanted to wait to see what was going to happen after several persons had taken it. I just wanted to see because once you take the vaccine, you can't take it back. So, that's why I kind of waited.

And since I was teaching from home, I felt more protected. I could control my environment a little better and who I was coming in contact with. But once I started thinking about it and praying about it, my family members were getting vaccinated, my mother and immediate family members, that kind of started to change my perspective on it.

KEILAR: What did you -- what about your family and friends who maybe weren't on board with getting it who were telling you don't get it? What -- you know, what happened there?

HAMILTON: They were still telling me not to get it and we were -- we were kind of on the same page at first. And then as my mind started to change, we -- we kind of changed our minds together. We kind of knew that we were going to get vaccinated, we just have to do it in our own time. So you have to do it when you're comfortable. I'm going to do it when I'm, you know, ready to do it and comfortable. So we weren't stopping each other from doing it. We just knew that it was going to have to be in our own time. So, yes.

KEILAR: Yes.

So, Margelet, we spoke with another woman yesterday who said that she had to pray on it to figure this out. And I know that that was -- you went to a revival at your church, a tent revival, and that was the turning point for you. You know, what do you say to people -- give us your pitch to people about why you think they should be thinking about this maybe in a different way or searching for answers in a different way about this?

HAMILTON: Yes. I was -- I'm a part of Bethel Missionary Baptist Church. And I was at the tent revival singing. And when I heard my pastor, Reverend Dr. R.B. Holmes Junior (ph), who is at the forefront of pushing everyone to encourage them to get the shot, I thought, you know, I was going to go ahead and get it. But, you know, it was going to go ahead -- go ahead and get it now. Why am I waiting? I knew I was going to get it because I'm in education. And once I found out that I was going to be in the classroom again, around -- in a tight environment with other persons, I wanted to have some protection better than -- is better than no protection.

So right there, after I had said my prayer right there at the tent to go ahead and make sure hopefully that it didn't affect me in a negative way since I had some of the pre-existing conditions, I wanted to make sure that the nurses there were very, very attentive, making sure that everything went well. And so it made me very more comfortable to just go ahead and get it. And I actually felt so much better after I did. A little more relief

that I would at least have some protection, although I know I would still be a possible carrier of the disease and could still pass it along. I wanted to make sure that at least I'm doing my part for protecting not only myself but those persons that I come in contact with, whether it's my family, friends or strangers on the street.

KEILAR: I know that feeling of relief, Margelet, and I thank you so much for taking the time today to talk to us about it.

HAMILTON: Thank you. Thank you for having me.

KEILAR: Coming up, we will take you inside a Louisiana hospital where a coronavirus patient says she's furious with herself for not getting vaccinated.

BERMAN: Plus, who is likely to get subpoenaed first as the House investigation into the January 6th insurrection moves forward?

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[06:48:38]

BERMAN: So a source tells CNN that in just a matter of hours the House committee investigating the January 6th insurrection is planning to meet in Speaker Pelosi's office to discuss strategy going forward.

Joining us now, CNN legal analyst Elie Honig. He's a former state and federal prosecutor.

Elie, the big question is, will they issue subpoenas and for whom.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: John, there is a huge legal battle brewing right now on Capitol Hill. And there will be subpoenas.

First of all, the chair of the January 6th Select Committee, Representative Bennie Thompson, has told us anybody who had a conversation with the White House and officials in the White House while the invasion of the Capitol was going on is directly in the investigative sights of the committee and I have no reluctance whatsoever in issuing subpoenas for information. So, who could be receiving these perhaps unwanted subpoenas?

Well, if you want to know what happened in the White House on January 6th, the logical place to start is this guy, the former president, Donald Trump. Will Congress want the political circus that goes along with subpoenaing Donald Trump? We shall see.

I think you're also going to want to subpoena Mark Meadows, chief of staff, Jared Kushner, senior adviser. We know they were in contact with Trump throughout January 6th.

Also, interestingly, a member of the House himself, a powerful member, Kevin McCarthy. We know he had a crucial conversation during January 6th when he asked Donald Trump to call them off and Donald Trump lashed out at McCarthy. And we learned this week Jim Jordan also had a conversation with Donald Trump on January 6th.

[06:50:05]

Any or all of these folks could receive subpoenas. I have a gut instinct they're not going to be super happy about it.

BERMAN: Well, they may be even less than unhappy about it, which -- or, you know, or more unhappy than just being unhappy. They may not comply.

HONIG: Exactly.

BERMAN: What happens then?

HONIG: So Congress really has three options. First of all, they can vote to hold somebody in contempt. Now, in recent years, that's really just been sort of a tisk, tisk, slap on the wrist. We've seen William Barr, Wilbur Ross both held in contempt in 2019. Going back a little bit, Attorney General Eric Holder. Nothing further happened. DOJ theoretically could investigate. But really contempt has just been a symbolic thing.

Historically, Congress had its own inherent enforcement power. They'd send out the old Sargent at Arms. He'd throw them in the old prison near the Capitol. That hasn't happened in over 80 years. We're not going to see the Sargent at Arms putting handcuffs on Kevin McCarthy.

The realistic option here, John, is they can go to the courts, they can file a lawsuit to force these people to testify. And then if they don't, you could have a real criminal issue.

Don McGahn is a case in point of what should not happen. It took over two years of legal battles, Jerry Nadler took four months to even go to court. McGahn fought it. It dragged out forever.

So the House needs to do better here. They need to move more quickly. And our courts need to move more quickly if we get this kind of battle.

BERMAN: Right. And there is an interim measure here, and you mentioned it briefly. The Department of Justice, in the past, hasn't become involved on these contempt citations, but they could.

HONIG: Yes.

BERMAN: I mean Merrick Garland could get involved here if he wants.

HONIG: Absolutely, it will be his choice. Of course, in the past, the people being held in contempt, Barr and Holder, happen to be in charge of DOJ.

BERMAN: Look, Mo Brooks, a lot is made of the fact that Mo Brooks has said that he was wearing body armor underneath that windbreaker and whatnot the day of the Capitol insurrection. I want to know, Mo Brooks was at the baseball practice that got shot up and, you know, Scalise got injured. Says he has worn body armor in public some since then because of threats on his life. But there are those who look at this and say, hey, if he was wearing body armor there, that indicates that he didn't think this was just a peaceful protest and may somehow impact his legal defense in the Swalwell case. What gives?

HONIG: So he could get a subpoena as well. And I think one question for him is what led you to wear body armor in this case? How often did you do it? And he has -- he has some legitimate reason given his past experience. Did you have specific information about what was going to happen this day that led you to wear body armor?

Also importantly, the Justice Department decided this week they will not be representing Mo Brooks in the lawsuit, meaning in DOJ's opinion, he was not acting within his role as a member of Congress on that day.

BERMAN: Counselor Elie Honig, always a pleasure. Thanks so much for being here.

HONIG: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: So just how contagious is the delta variant? More than Ebola, the common cold and the flu. All the details from an alarming, new report, next.

KEILAR: Plus, one Atlanta school has already quarantined over 100 students, and it's only the first week of school.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:57:00]

BERMAN: So from the United Kingdom, an international outrage. It took place at the unveiling of a statue for fallen police officers, a noble cause, and no one is questioning that. What is scandalous, though, is what happened with Prime Minister Boris Johnson during the event.

I want to play the unedited video in its entirety. Now, I should warn you, you might be shocked by this. I should also warn you, apparently it's raining.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any moment now we'll be celebrating with the flight past of the National Police Air Service. So we'll just wait a moment on them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: OK. There's a lot to digest there. So I want to break it down into parts.

First, the prime minister notices it's raining. He also notices he has an umbrella, which he tries to deploy. Now I say try because this is a tortured process of self-discovery for the prime minister who seems to be familiarizing himself with this advanced technology for the very first time. Now, it is here where one could point out that rain is not some

unicorn event there. Rain is the official national weather of the United Kingdom. It rains there pretty much always. Yet, as the British papers point out, Johnson has trouble taking evasive action.

This came the day after making headlines in the British papers for other rain issues. "The Evening Standard" wrote, quote, the prime minister was mocked for getting drenched even though he was holding an umbrella. That was an actual article.

Forget the insurrection, this is a scandal. Damp shoulders, a literal water-gate. Forgive me.

But back to the play by play.

Johnson gets the umbrella open, proudly. So proudly that he offers it to Home Secretary Priti Patel. Her response, more or less, not on your life. Not just no, but talk to the hand no. A combination of pity and disdain as if to say, you're not dragging me into this. One umbrella scandal per cabinet is enough.

And then Johnson basically says, hold my beer, right? The ultimate in umbrella comedy, if the Brits were actually known for comedy. Now, what most people found -- this is what most people found to be the grand finale. But, no. The real outrage comes next because this is when Prince Charles, who was there, chuckles or chortles. I'm not sure which I'm allowed to say. He chuckles or chortles, whatever the proper decorum referring to royal mirth might be.

[07:00:02]

He laughs as if to say, commoner.