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Simone Biles Returns to Win Bronze in Balance Beam; Gold Medalist Ryan Murphy is Interviewed; 2 More Officers Who Defended Capitol in Riot Die by Suicide; Hospitals Under Siege from COVID Surge. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired August 03, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. I'm John Berman with Brianna Keilar. It is Tuesday, August 3.

[05:59:43]

The breaking news, high drama. Simone Biles wins the bronze, and I do mean wins. Some victories are not about finishing first, and this is one of them.

Biles' medal is a victory for awareness about mental health after she pulled out of all the other individual events from the Olympics, suffering from what is known as the twisties, losing herself in the air during these performances.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: Now, the greatest female gymnast in history turning in this solid performance in Tokyo to wrap up a gut- wrenching games on a high note.

Coy Wire is standing by live in Tokyo with the details.

I watched it, Coy. No sign of the twisties there.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: No, you know, here she was. She's even said that she felt like, Brianna, she had the weight of the world on her shoulders at times.

I was there in the venue behind me, and you could see that there was a camera in her face everywhere she went, and magnifying the moment.

The crowd in this -- and I will say crowd, because there were more media at this event than any other that I had been to here in Tokyo, including other gymnastics events. There were cheers from media from all around the world, wanting to support Simone Biles in this.

Of course, her other Team USA athletes were there, as well, holding American flags, and it was -- it was an atmosphere for the first time that I experienced here at these games.

There was a lot of tension, and you know what? Simone Biles, she said her mentals weren't right. She took -- withdrew herself from several events. And it came down to this last final competition in the gymnastics discipline.

And she went out there with the weight of the world on her shoulders, and walked out there onto that four-inch beam. And she took a leap of faith, and she nailed it.

The crowd erupted. Her -- she was all smiles. And what impressed me the most was, even before she got up on that beam, she was pacing calmly. Gymnast before her had completed her run on the beam, and Simone went over and was encouraging her. It just shows that she knows this is more than just about her.

Before this event today, I spoke with her teammate, Jordan Chiles. It's actually her training partner, knows Simone very well. Here's what she had to say about Simone before this big moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JORDAN CHILES, TEAM USA GYMNASTICS: She's not a quitter. You will never see Simone just go out there and give up on something that she's worked so hard for her.

We don't know what's going on in her head, so, you know, it was probably the most devastating thing that happened to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: So knowing that, knowing what she experienced from Simone Biles, she still went out there, and she -- she won. John, you mentioned she won that gold [SIC] medal.

And Brianna, the gold medalist, Guan Chenchen of China, just 16 years old. She was the world junior champion last year. Her hero: Simone Biles.

KEILAR: Yes. It was amazing to see Simone Biles going up to the other athletes, two of them, obviously, who outperformed her, and encouraging them. And you could see that dynamic. It was amazing.

But look, this -- this is an important medal, right. This gets her to seven, and so that puts her right in line with Shannon Miller, right, Coy?

WIRE: Yes. So it's seven overall for her career. She won four golds in Rio in 2016. She also won one bronze back then. That event, Brianna, was the beam. So she matches what she did at her last Olympic game. This was not her strongest event. It's one of her weakest events.

But she still went out there with that weight of the world, and she won that medal, not just for her but for all athletes, from here and forever more, who are going to feel that there's pressure, the weight of the world is on their shoulders. They know now that if the GOAT, the greatest of all time, Simone Biles, was feeling unwell, and she removed herself from the situation that she knew she needed to remove herself from to prevent damage mentally and/or physically, she did it.

It puts an importance on mental health of athletes and for anyone who may be struggling. What she did is monumental, and it's certainly a piece of history that -- that won't ever be forgotten.

KEILAR: Yes. I'm sure it was difficult to do, but it was amazing to see. Sort of an exclamation point there for Simone Biles on the end of this game -- games.

Coy Wire, thank you so much. Live for us from Tokyo.

BERMAN: So you saw me not being able to contain myself, because joining me now is four-time Olympic gold medalist swimmer, Ryan Murphy. In Tokyo, he took the silver in the men's 200-meter backstroke, and he and his teammates took the gold in the men's four 4 by 100 medley relay, setting a new world record.

Ryan, it's so great to see you. Impressive not only all the medals, but the fact that you can fly back from Tokyo and then attempt to complete sentences the very next morning.

RYAN MURPHY, OLYMPIC GOLD MEDALIST: Yes.

BERMAN: So I appreciate it. I appreciate you being here for that.

Look, what Simone Biles just did, winning the bronze after everything she's been through, what's your reaction?

MURPHY: Yes. I mean, what -- what an incredible competitor. Everything that she's done over the course of her career. This week, she brought attention to some really important issues that -- that need to be talked about.

And so for her to be able to do that, come back, still focus in on competing and win a bronze medal, what an incredible -- what an incredible athlete, what an incredible person. Team USA is really lucky to have her.

BERMAN: So, you know, 99.9 percent of us can't imagine the type of pressure you feel as an elite athlete with the whole world watching you at a moment like this in the Olympics. So, you know, try to explain to the rest of us what it feels like to be in that moment.

MURPHY: It's -- it's tough. It is tough to explain, too. I think -- I'm someone, I always listen to music before races. I'm always wearing headphones. I'm always trying to -- to kind of distract myself from -- from thinking about the moment too much.

I can't -- I can't even wear, like, the in-ear airpods, because when I try to open the case to put them in, my hands are shaking too much that I can't actually get them in the case. So that's just an example. I have to wear the over the ears, just because the pressure is really huge out there.

BERMAN: On the flip side of that, the feeling. For instance, the feeling when you won the four by 100 medley. Again, what does that like?

MURPHY: Unreal. I don't know if I've ever been that excited. Swimming is -- swimming is a really challenging sport. The body hurts really bad at the end of those races. I don't think I felt pain for an hour after that one. That's how -- that's how much the adrenaline was pumping after that four by 100 relay.

BERMAN: I was sore from watching you.

So listen, you know you were in the middle of some controversy following the backstroke event, where you were asked about the issues surrounding doping in this Olympics. The reasons the Russians, per se, don't have an official Olympic team there, because their Olympic committee more or less banned from the games. This is what you said after the event.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MURPHY: Yes, I don't know if it was 100 percent clean, and -- and that's because of things that have happened over the past.

My intention is not to make any allegations here. Like I -- congratulations to Evgeny. Congratulations to Luke. I think they did an incredible job. They're both very talented swimmers. I think they both worked really hard. They've got great technique.

At the end of the day, like, I do -- I do believe there's -- there's doping in swimming.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, there were people who saw this and were like, Hey, is this guy griping because he didn't win the gold?

What's your answer to that?

MURPHY: No, no. I think I was -- I was asked a pretty specific question about -- about doping in swimming, and I answered it honestly. I do think there's doping in swimming. I think that my -- my thoughts on this matter have been informed by the CEO of USADA, U.S. anti-doping, Travis Tygart.

BERMAN: He knows an awful lot about it.

MURPHY: Yes. So he -- he's been talking for -- for a couple of years, and this year he really did ramp up his messaging that -- that he's incredibly worried about the state of -- the state of doping around the world.

Also, the head of, you know, whoever looks at all swimming internationally, the executive director, Mr. Nowicki, talked to me, and he said, Yes, we do have a long way to go in terms of cleaning up doping in our sport.

He's a guy who also, on a day-to-day basis, is -- is studying this stuff and is really in the know. So I didn't -- I didn't specifically call out any athlete. I didn't call out any country. I was just asked a question about doping in swimming, and I -- and I answered it.

BERMAN: Now there have been threats to you and your family? What are you going through?

MURPHY: Yes. Yes, I think that's -- that kind of -- that kind of comes with the territory. I'm not -- I'm trying not to worry about that too much. But it is what it is.

It does take a bit of courage to stands up and call out when you see things that -- that aren't OK. And this is just one of -- one of the things that goes along with that.

BERMAN: What's next for you?

MURPHY: Yes, so in the pool, I'm going to take some time off. I'm going to enjoy life.

Outside of the pool, I'm really excited to do some really cool events with some of my partners, Bridgestone being one of them. They're doing a lot of things to support young adaptive athletes to -- to go and chase their dreams. They -- they're donating $125,000 to -- to help young adaptive athletes do that, and I'm really excited to be a part of it.

BERMAN: Ryan Murphy, it's great to meet you. Congratulations on your victory. World champion, Olympic champion, and champion sleeper.

MURPHY: Yes.

BERMAN: Like, again, I was impressed with the sleep turnaround as anything. It's great to have you here in person (ph). Thanks so much.

MURPHY: Awesome. Really appreciate the time.

BERMAN: Brianna.

KEILAR: Breaking overnight, CNN has learned two more police officers who defended the Capitol during the January 6th insurrection have died by suicide. That makes a total of four officers who have died by suicide here in the weeks and the months since the attack.

CNN's Whitney Wild is joining us now. Whitney, this is terrible news.

WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is heartbreaking that the toll of that day continues to grow.

What we know, breaking overnight, is that Officer Kyle DeFreytag, someone who had joined Metropolitan Police Department -- that's the D.C. Department of Police here in our city -- took his own life in mid-July.

He started with the department in 2006.

Also in mid -- in July was the death by suicide of Officer Gunther Gunther Hashida. He died July 29. That day is significant. It was two days after two of his colleagues, two other members of the Capitol Police Department went to Congress to outline the trauma they experienced on the day of the Capitol insurrection.

[06:10:07]

During that congressional testimony, officers made an urgent plea for more mental health resources. As evidenced by this growing number of officers who are taking their own lives, mental health help for police is literally a matter of life and death.

It just so happens that Officer Mike Fanone, someone you may see on our air quite often, happened to know Officer Gunther Hashida. Here's what he had to say about him.

"Gunther was the most professional police officer that I ever worked with in my entire career. I have always felt that way. For me, the takeaway is that so much more needs to be done to normalize the conversation around mental health, not just in our profession. We need to take away the stigma of talking about these issues."

This is a heartbreaking development, and we can't know in this moment what role responding to the insurrection might have played. Suicide is as personal as it is complicated.

However, this is now this heartbreaking string that threads these four men together.

And Brianna, Officer Howard Livengood, a Capitol Police officer, took his own life -- own life just three days after responding to the insurrection.

Officer Jeffrey Smith, also a Metropolitan Police Officer, took his life a little over a week and a half after responding to the insurrection.

There is effort underway to make mental health -- provide more resources for mental health for these officers. For example, with the security supplemental that was recently passed, there are more resources within the Capitol Police Department dedicated to mental health.

That is going to be in the name of Officer Howie Livengood, and his family is overwhelmingly grateful for that.

However, this does spotlight the real trauma officers go through, not just on January 6th. But many days throughout their professional career and all across the country. It is a reminder of the immense burden these officers take on.

KEILAR: Yes. And as you have reported on, there have actually been -- they've lost police officers from the force. So you actually have this situation where they're just working, working, working, going, going, going, when arguably some of them need a break. That's very clear.

Whitney, thank you so much for your report.

BERMAN: Joining us now is CNN senior law enforcement analyst and former Philadelphia police commissioner and D.C. police chief, Charles Ramsey. Commissioner, thank you so much for being with us. Four officers now

dead by suicide who responded to the Capitol attack. How do you explain this?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, first of all, let me offer my condolences to those families and to the members of the department. Because it's hard on everyone whenever you have something like this take place.

You know, this highlights an issue that's been in policing for a very long time, and only recently have we started really openly talking about it, and that's suicide.

Police officers commit suicide at a much higher rate than the public at large, and a lot of it has to do with the trauma and with the stress associated with policing. So it's not just January 6th, although I'm certain that, you know, that certainly has played a role, perhaps, in some of these cases.

But it's the day-to-day work. It's -- you know, it's going to homicide scenes. It's seeing child abuse victims and sexual assault victims on a regular basis, where it almost becomes routine. But it's not normal. It's not normal to be exposed to that on a consistent basis.

And we don't do a very good job of policing and dealing with officers' mental health, getting regular mental health checkups, just making sure that officers have the right balance to be able to go out there on the street and perform their functions properly.

KEILAR: You've talked about this. It's sort of layer upon layer of trauma that can come before a suicide. That daily trauma as you said, perhaps the acute trauma of what happened on January 6th.

I do wonder, though, you know, you just heard that report from Whitney Wild. She reported that during the hearing of these police officers last week before the January 6th Committee, that officers all over the Capitol were very invested. They were keeping tabs on what was going on.

They want to know if Congress is taking seriously what happened to them on January 6th. Does that contribute to the trauma, the fact that some lawmakers are whitewashing the events?

RAMSEY: Sure it does, and it's not just for the Capitol Police, although, you know, the Capitol Police, the Metropolitan Police were the ones actually physically there in the battle, literal battle that was taking place there.

But for police officers across the country, when you hear our elected officials, people that you should really look up to, start to try to spin a story of something as serious as what took place on January 6th and try to make it into something that never happened, or it was just like a regular tourist event. We all know that's not true. The same people saying that were barricading doors and hiding in the basement of the visitor's center at that particular point in time. But to hear them say that is not only disrespectful, it does create

additional trauma. And every time you look at those videos, and you get a chance to see from different perspectives, just how violent it was, and you think to yourself, I'm just lucky I didn't get seriously injured or killed during that period of time, all of that stuff adds up over time.

[06:15:11]

BERMAN: When your reality is denied, publicly denied, it has to have an impact.

Commissioner, thank you so much for being with us. I know we, along with you, you know, issue our condolences to these families.

RAMSEY: Thank you.

BERMAN: And if you or anyone you know is struggling, please call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-8255.

Hospitals in several states under siege this morning as the number of unvaccinated patients hits records.

KEILAR: Plus, a medical ethicist will join us live on why he says it's time to punish the unvaccinated, not those who got the shot.

And just in, a general in Afghanistan says he's never seen so many al Qaeda fighters on the front lines, as a U.S. defense official says it's not going well there.

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[06:20:22]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK LAPEROUSE, MEDICAL DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY SERVICES, OUR LADY OF THE LAKE REGIONAL MEDICAL CENTER: There doesn't seem to be an end in sight. The hospital is full. The hospitals all around the state are full. You know, I'm reaching out to medical directors at some of our partnering hospitals, and they've got patients in the emergency department waiting for an admission for 37 hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: That is a hospital director in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, sounding a warning that healthcare facilities are being overrun by COVID patients, and the overwhelmed majority of them are unvaccinated.

In Arkansas, it's a similar story. On Monday, the state reporting the highest increase in hospitalizations since the beginning of the pandemic.

And the chief clinical officer at Arkansas Children's Health System says he has seen something terrifying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. RICK BARR, ARKANSAS CHILDREN'S HEALTH SYSTEM: Throughout the previous months of the pandemic, we would have, you know, zero to maybe three children admitted to the hospital that tested positive for COVID, and they were often showed in for some other reason. They weren't showing symptoms of the COVID infection.

Today, we have 24 children in the hospital with COVID infections. They're all symptomatic with COVID. And eight of those are in intensive care and five requiring mechanical ventilation to breathe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Children on ventilators. The head of the White House coronavirus response says one-third of all cases reported this past week were in Florida and Texas.

Nadia Romero is joining us now from New Orleans. These health officials are really sounding an alarm here, Nadia.

NADIA ROMERO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are, Brianna. And it really feels like deja vu here in New Orleans, because we've been here before.

Remember, the first super spreader event was right after Mardi Gras in 2020. We've had ups and downs in the state of Louisiana and all across the south, but right now is a terrible moment today.

Health officials believe that we could reach the highest numbers of COVID-19 hospitalizations in Louisiana since the pandemic began.

And that's why Governor Edwards is sounding that alarm. As you mentioned, Brianna, he is really upset with a number of people in the state who are unvaccinated.

There are about 2,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations across the state of Louisiana. Ninety percent of them are unvaccinated people. The governor is pleading with people in his state to get vaccinated. He says it's the only way to end what he's calling a nightmare.

But there seems to be a bit of a silver lining. Maybe some people in the south are listening, and we're seeing dramatic increases of people getting the vaccine in Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas, and other states.

Let's listen in to how the White House COVID-19 response coordinator says those numbers are improving, and what it means.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF ZIENTS, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Louisiana has seen a 302 percent increase in the average number of newly vaccinated per day. Mississippi, 250 percent; Alabama, 215 percent; and Arkansas, 206 percent.

This increase in vaccination rates in states that have been lagging is a positive trend. Americans are seeing the risk and impact of being unvaccinated and responding with action. And that's what it's going to take to get us out of this pandemic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROMERO: So the question now, is it too late, too late? Well, Governor Edwards in Louisiana says that 40 hospitals are asking for more staff. They need more nurses. There is already a shortage. And now they are seeing the effects of more people coming in with severe cases of hospitalizations.

And as we heard Brianna, we know that those are people who are elderly. But they're seeing even more people who are children, and people under the age of 50 -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, it is too late for some people, Nadia. We know that. It is not too late for others. So get vaccinated.

Nadia Romero, thank you so much for that.

This Delta variant of COVID spreading across the country, and some experts are calling for more restrictions on eligible adults who are still refusing to get vaccinated.

In an op-ed for "USA Today," two university professors suggest that the unvaccinated be required to disclose their vaccination status, quarantine when they travel, and pay higher health insurance rates. They also call for the implementation of so-called vaccine passports to curb recent surges in infections.

Joining us now is Professor Arthur Kaplan. He is the director of medical ethics at NYU's Grossman School of Medicine. He's one of the authors of that op-ed.

And Professor, one of the things you write about is that there's been this approach of sort of personal freedom, but that the time on that has really expired. Why do you say that?

[06:25:00]

ARTHUR KAPLAN, DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL ETHICS, NYU'S GROSSMAN SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Hey, good morning, Bri.

Well, look, we've bent over backwards to respect the rights of the unvaccinated. We keep hearing my body, my choice. Governors, legislators, particularly in those southern states we've just heard about, keep saying we've got to make sure that there's no discrimination against the unvaccinated.

Look, we're still in the middle of a plague, and you have to choose sides. And the side that I'm arguing morally, and my colleague Richard Florida is arguing in that op-ed, is to say we've got to come down against the virus.

Of course, we need vaccine passports. You shouldn't be able to enter places, restaurants, sporting events, theaters, unless you're vaccinated. And we don't have any convenient, reliable way right now to prove that, as we ignored the need for vaccine passports, even for international travel.

And I'm going to argue that there are a lot of businesses out there who should start to simply say, you're not vaccinated, you can't come into work.

We've got to start to stand up for those kids, the frail elderly, the vulnerable out there who are filling up these hospitals, and my colleagues, the healthcare workers who are getting overwhelmed trying to care for them.

BERMAN: I have to say, you had me when you quoted Camus, right? When you quoted Albert Camus. You said, "On this earth, there are pestilences and there are victims. As far as possible, one must refuse to be on the side of the pestilence." That kind of closes your case right there.

I want to ask you about the New York Teachers Union, right? Because teachers were arguing for so long that, you know, you need to make the classrooms safe. We'll get vaccinated. Everyone gets vaccinated. We'll be, you know, safe to come back.

But now the New York Teachers Union is saying, We don't think there should be vaccine mandates. They say, "We support local efforts to encourage more vaccinations, such as through programs that require those who are not vaccinated to get tested on a regular basis, but it's critical of districts to come up with plans to make testing available on site and at no cost. What we have not supported is a vaccine mandate."

We're talking about for teachers on the public payroll. What gives?

KAPLAN: You've got to get your moral house in order. Camus, who we don't hear much in the public media, was right. Let's take the side of health when we're in the middle of a plague.

Come on, unions. You're going to go into the classroom unvaccinated with kids who can't be vaccinated, because they're often too young right now to qualify for vaccination?

And teachers should be role models. They should be up there saying, We need mandates. You've got to make sure that when you go to work, your coworkers are safe.

If you just look at the situation, again, in those southern states -- Louisiana, Texas, Florida -- overwhelmed, ICUs bursting, other medical procedures having to be postponed. I see what the price is of respecting the rights of the unvaccinated, we should stop paying it.

KEILAR: Well, Art, just real quickly on that point about the New York teachers, Governor Cuomo is saying get vaccinated or do testing.

And then you have the union coming out and saying, Yes, that's what they're going to do. He's also urging private businesses, though, to mandate the vaccine,

so you're getting these different stories. You see politicians making a calculation here.

KAPLAN: I do.

KEILAR: And that's happening on the left, too. What do you say to that?

KAPLAN: I do. And I say they're miscalculating. Stop putting the burden on the private sector to carry the vaccine mandates. They should do that. And I'm proud that many companies and restaurants are starting to do that now.

But government has lined up in the wrong part of this debate. It keeps coming down on the side of testing and masking. Testing and masking are great breathers. Only one thing that's going to work us out of this, protect the economy, reopen the schools, get us back to normal, it's vaccination. And we've got to push that as a requirement and make sure that we know who is vaccinated.

We need to really go down that road politically, and I want to see some more courage from our politicians that way.

BERMAN: Professor Kaplan, we appreciate you being with us this morning.

KAPLAN: Thanks.

BERMAN: Just in, Broward County in Florida just reversed its mask mandate in schools, complying with the governor's order, because they were afraid of losing their school funding.

KEILAR: Plus, Governor Andrew Cuomo grilled for hours as part of a sexual harassment probe. What he reportedly said to investigators about fairness.

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